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/lit/ - Literature

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4378398 No.4378398[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

wassup /lit/hophytes,

if i started a book with the sentence

"A little portrayal of a paradisiacal life could be seen through the loop in the noose in front of him.",

how many of you would want to slap me and how many of you would cortically vocalize the words "go on...."?

>> No.4378419

>>4378398
Do you really have to say "paradisiacal life"

Why not just paradise

Stop being deliberately wordy

>> No.4378421

Slapping means touching you, however briefly, so I would do nothing but cringe.

>> No.4378426

>>4378419
Saying "paradise" would mean something that isn't the same as "paradisaical life"?

>> No.4378427

>>4378419
This.
"A little portrait of paradise could be seen..."

Why did you want to use paradisiacal?

>> No.4378425

I would say "go on" just to see how bad this will be

>> No.4378436

>>4378427

i assumed paradise is more of a place than a quality of life. like paradise + paradisiacal life could be differentiated

>> No.4378438

"paradisiacal" is a horrifying word. there's probably no good place to put it except in a tongue-in-cheek poem where you need the syllables or the rhyme.

portrayal is clumsy too, and sense you seem to be going for humor, you have your work cut out for you if you don't come up with more streamlined phrasing. Humor is hurt by anything that takes the reader out of the moment.

>> No.4378439

>>4378398
OP, I would certainly want to hear more. As others mentioned, paradisiacal life sounds intentionally wordy. I don't think that it captures anything different from paradise, but that's author's choice.

>> No.4378442

>>4378421
This.

>>4378425
Or maybe this. Where's that Michael Jackson + popcorn gif when you need it?

>> No.4378447
File: 35 KB, 500x250, emo-tastic.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4378447

>>4378398
slap

first of all i dislike edgy suicide-core 'this will get their attention' openers. like 'he woke up very hungover, barely remembering what he did last night, but with one wrist in handcuffs and the other smeared with lipstick.' stupid. like the pic i attached, which is deviant-art-angsty-teenager-core. the pic itself is cliche as fuck, let alone its literary equivalent

second, gratuitous repetition of the 'p' in that first clause. obviously babby's first time learning about literary concepts and trying to apply them.

third, conceptually it doesnt make sense. he's going to die, and accept obliteration, but you are saying he sees a life through the noose? wait, no, not a life, but a "portrayal" of a life? what is this portrayal? is it a model train thing, or a cartoon?

>> No.4378454

>>4378447
>not also criticising the use of 'could be seen' when 'he could see' would do the job far less annoyingly
I give your criticism an 8/10.

>> No.4378457

thanks everyone, needed to hear criticism from strangers is all, basically

time to start re-wording things

>> No.4378460

>>4378436
They could but aren't necessarily. You're still saying that it's a portrayal(or portrait in my post). Assuming you're not going to go on to describe a painting or picture he literally sees through the noose, I don't think any reader will think he's looking at a place and not thinking about the more abstract implications of he word paradise.

Regardless, paradisical just means of, resembling or relating to paradise, so your idea that the two are differentiated is just your personal conclusions about the words. Either way, paradisical reads and sounds like shit in contemporary prose and there are plenty of far better ways to get across the concept.

>> No.4378462

>>4378457
>asking for criticism on single sentences
Write a whole short story first, then get it torn to pieces by the savage critical wolves of /lit/. Drafting and redrafting a single sentence is no way to write something.

Disregard if you have already written a whole thing in exactly that style and are too scared to post any more of it on /lit/. That would be totally understandable.

>> No.4378464

>>4378454
...actually I'll up you to a 9/10 because the 'conceptually it doesnt make sense' point is great.

>> No.4378475

>>4378460

even if its my own personal conclusion, id want other people to share the same conclusion as what im trying to connote, so i agree


>>4378462

its 50 something pages and counting, im just not happy about the start at all, and certain other parts which im not ready to be criticised yet, specially by literature aficionadi

>> No.4378494

>>4378462
"A little portrayal of a paradisiacal life could be seen through the loop in the noose in front of him., The noose hung outside the transom of The dolly shop on Sailmaker Street, depending from a short-cut top spar-end long since retired from service by woodworm and weather, and lately called upon to half-pay shore duty by one Bail Raskin, Esq., Prop. in Res., informally liscensed pawnborker and dealer in ship's stores.
Said noose was normally the fixed and frequent residence of Jarky, a sailcloth and tar tatterdemalion, liberally greased and lampblacked and with two mismatched and lopsided button eyes and a the red felt grin of a demon from hell, which, in fact, he was.
The paradise glimpsed was little more than a skyline of warehouse roofridge and chimney pots, with a grey moon scudding through the Thames fog behind it. But this was paradise enow and amen to Domdaniel. He had been a sweep for three years of his short life until cold and tuberculosis, with the able assitance of starvation, had ushered him out of the workaday world and into the service and employ of Master Raskin, Esq., who, while a most able and straightforward man of business, was also perhaps the blackest and most capable practitioner of the Dark Arts that London in the year 1889 Anno Domine could boast."

>> No.4378501

>>4378494
Woah, you're going Full Dickens. This is why I think getting criticism on individual sentences may not be helpful- looks like a wordy style is a central part of what you're trying to do.

>> No.4378507

>>4378494

id totally read that. id read the shit out of it
although the story im doing continues with the noose not being about to support his weight and snaps, and then protagonist basically tries to perform self-immolation in numerous ways but he carries on living. it gets a bit wordier and hysterical-realism-themed, really.

still, would totally read that

>> No.4378515

>>4378501
>and
...also after wrapping my head around it (dem abbreviated titles), I think I like it.

>> No.4378531

>>4378507
Wait.......... this isn't you? >>4378494

>> No.4378535

>>4378531
[confusion intensifies]

>> No.4378546

>>4378426
"A little portrayal of paradise could be..." sounds just the same.

If you're so hung up on the life part say "A little portrayal of a life of paradise could be..."

>> No.4378571

>>4378531

i half wish, bud
>>4378546

i like

>> No.4378581

Thanks, Pynchon.

>> No.4378585

I always start my stories with "There was x years/months/time since event-from-the-first-chapter" or something like that. You are doing good.

>> No.4378592

It's shit, and not only is it shit but it's stolen from a picture posted here all the time where a guy looks through a noose and sees the world in colour

>> No.4378656

>>4378398
dis nigga just said i'm a plankton or some shiiieeet

>> No.4378731

>>4378494
>anon takes wordy and angsty-sounding sentence and turns it into a weird fantasy Dickens pastiche which makes a virtue of its wordiness
/lit/ I am impress

>> No.4380748

>>4378494
Domdaniel dragged his mass of mist and bones and rags and bindings higher on the dark shelf that hovered ledgelike above the doorfram and the discreet brass bell, rimed with verdigris, that stood sentinel when Messr. Raskin was in one of the back rooms or "downcellar" as he would put it to an inquisitive layperson. For of course he never slept; nor did Jarky or Domdaniel or Mary Crewe or any of the "indentures". They must be alert and ready to leap and crawl, flit and shamble and grope at any gola that the pleasure and comfort of Messr. Raskin and his occasional guests required.

Domdaniel's gaze, from the precipitous perch which due to his exertions he now commanded, Fell upon the frosted lamp and the cobbles beneath it, and that sense that served his eyeless sockets as vision told him that the doll was indeed gone, and not merely dropped to the threshold or lurking behind one of the bins in the alleyway. He knew he must not miss his chance, and though he could not have told you, either before or after his late demise, why it would be that he would wish escape, or indeed where he might wish to escape to, he knew in his bones(which he still retained a majority) that away was what he wanted, and that now was the best chance at it that he might have. Silent as the grave he had never possessed, he slithered down the moldings to the box where the mortal remains of Mary Crewe resided. he would see that she had the chance as well, for if Domdanoel's boney breast had still possessed a heart, he would have transferred it to her in title and in fact, de jure and de facto, long since.

>> No.4380754

>>4378447
>>4378398
I don't know why but because of that bleak looking picture OP posted I imagined a 1984 type setting where the main character is being executed and "paradisiacal" fuck that word is being used ironically.

>> No.4380826

>>4378592
this

>> No.4381109

>>4380748
"In the rooms beneath the room where Domdaniel and his ragged enamorata were at
that moment making their preparations for escape, a conclave was taking place
between several serious men to whom the daylight city would have been shocked
and perplexed to learn had ever had recourse to so low--in both senses--an establishment. The room we are speaking of, in that realm flippantly referred to as "downcellar" or "the catacombs" or simply "the rooms", was a long and broad and
candlelit chamber, a bit low cielinged, perhaps, but panelled with the finest oak and
fir and dark slab cherry that the coffin makers of the city could scrounge. It is dominated by a long marble table, cut from a cenotaph toppled ages ago into the Thames during a siege and dredged forth and carved for its present purpose by hands belonging to creatures best not speculated long upon.
It served ably for its present purpose: that of a calm and serious deliberation among calm and serious men, concerning a vocation of which they were both ancient acolytes. The subject was knowledge, and Messr. Raskin is the current speaker, and upon a subject dear to him:
"Necromancy, my dear colleagues"
His glance encompasses the room "I make to be a misnomer, for do we not define it as meaning divination through the dead? The dead know only the past, they can tell us nothing of things to come: we have the lesson of Endor to guide us there."
" There is indeed, little of the divine about it in any sense, I imagine." This was from a lean man in a curate's frock and collar, and recieved a polite chuckle form the host and several of the company. One man who did not laugh, a robust man in a silk cravat with a ruddy countenance spoke up.
"But the dead can tell us much of the past; of things lost, hidden, or buried. Of wealth for instance; there is much of the hidden riches of the world of which they might speak, if they might be made to."
Master Raskin nodded acquiessence. "True, but we must recall that the dead may lie. As well they may know no more than you or I as to what has passed since their demise. Boundaries, shift, tributaries dry, maps and directions become useless. And the dead need not help us: it is not so easy to induce their cooperation. Threats are often meaningless, and with what may the dead be bribed?"

"Yet you seem to have your ways"
Again the polite condescension. "you touch upon the mysteries of my craft sir, to which I may only allude. Still, as it is pertinant to the present subject, yes, I do have my ways of both inducing and authenticating the communication of the departed. More wine?"

No one would touch a morsel served from Mr. Raskins plate, and he was sensitve enough not to ostend. Ancient brandies and liquors were on offer how ever, and not all Mr. Raskin's admonitions to partake were declined."

>> No.4381222

>>4378475
you should really get more critique of your style before you get too far in. it can make the second draft cumbersome seeming if too much is altered for style's sake.

>> No.4381248

I'd keep reading. The noose part does the trick. The contrast too.

>paradisiacal

That word annoys me. Use "paradise" instead and it'll be even stronger, in my humble opinion.

>portrait of paradise

That sounds good to me. Anyway, good opening.

>> No.4381259

>>4378398
Change noose to moose and I'm with you.

>> No.4381262

So I know a lot of people discourage starting a novel with the main character waking up. But what if he doesn't wake up in his bed? Say, he wakes up in the middle of a car ride?

>> No.4381269

>>4381262

Most of the people who discourage you from anything never made it as writers.

OP, word of warning to you: a good portion of c/lit/-lickers will hate on your work no matter what you've written simply because they can't resist the urge to shit on someone else's efforts.

C/lit/s are mostly frustrated wannabe authors who will attack you with all the more fervor as they lack talent. So don't pay attention what you think is incorrect.

Basically, this:

>>4381248

Is the best advice you'll get here.

>> No.4381277
File: 8 KB, 200x200, 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4381277

I'm afraid that I would not publish you based on that first sentence dude

>> No.4381361

>>4381269
I've never gotten anything but praise and encouragement except occasionally from a few obvious trolls that clearly hadn't even read the stuff. I'd say that you can trust the negative stuff more than the positive in general on forums of any kind. I think there's a lot more people who can recognize a turd and tell you than can spot a masterpiece.

>> No.4381405

>>4381262
starting with the protagonist waking up is an old hack. it can be done well. Zelazny starts nine princes in amber with the protag waking up with amnesia, and it really keeps you reading.

the thing with using hacks like that is you better use them right, and be good at it. Don't just use it as an excuse to show him looking at himself in the mirror, or regretting his life, or 'stumbling through his too small apartment past the mounds of partially picked bones and broken armor that his two were dragon roomates were always leaving around, and then finding the bathtub populated by three passed out nixies and a merman with a smile on his unconscious face" don't exposit through it in other words.

>> No.4381423

>>4381277
>I would not publish you

Not that guy, but it's not like you're an adult who publishes things. You're just some kid at Mom and Dad's house.

>> No.4381451

>>4378398
I think "small" works better than little, "picture, image or portrait works better than portrayal, and pleasant or idyllic works better than paradisiacal. I'd also recommend dropping "loop of" as redundant to "noose".

>> No.4381457

>>4381405
Well basically my character is running away to a distant family house, his car is on autopilot and it rocks him awake as they near their destination. It makes sense for him to be able to sleep while the car drives.
Is that still a hack?

>> No.4381467

>>4381457
>his car is on autopilot and it rocks him awake as they near their destination. It makes sense for him to be able to sleep while the car drives.

>lol, i've never used autopilot lol
>better write about it!

>> No.4381473

>>4381467
Nah it's cool man. It's sci-fi-ish. It's not like he's using cruise control hahah. The car is practically sentient.

>> No.4381478

>>4381457
hack isn't a bad thing: it's another way of saying trope, or shorthand. Any "in medias res" type thing is a hack of sorts. and a lot of good authors use them. The problem with it is too many bad authors use "collecting his thoughts on waking" as an excuse to feed us backstory, and "fumbling through his morning ritual " as a chance to exposit and describe. you end up with no action for a considerable amount of time. Now, to see it done right, read "the word for world is forest" or some story where the author knows how to use it. the "langerhans" story by ellison does a good job too.

>> No.4381489

>>4381109
who else wants more of this?

>> No.4381539

First lines are hard. Keep them short, then go into your example. Right now, it's a little heavy handed try hard. Go simple, then dig into it.

Best intro line I've ever read: "Batman is a pussy." Definitely made me wanna read.

>> No.4381597

Is it just me or does that make no sense?

>> No.4381775

>>4381597
It makes some sense, but it does expect a lot of the reader.

>> No.4381790

>>4381423
>doesn't know we have people who work in publishing on /lit/

shiny new

>> No.4381826

>>4381790
WWe had a couple old-timey publisher guys on here last year, giving advice on submissions, formats agents,and what would be easiest to sell.

>> No.4381861

>>4378494
>>4380748
>>4381109


uhhh.... what is this?

>> No.4381868

>>4378585
you sound like a shit writer

>> No.4381874

>>4381489
I like it. Not sure where it's going, but then that's all part of the rambling 19th-century style.

>> No.4381879

>>4381467
Er... did you actually believe that anon believed we currently have actual real autopilot in cars?

>> No.4381886

>>4381861
Looks like an effort to make OP's weird word choices make sense by making a whole story out of weird word choices. 'tis a fine effort, in my view.

>> No.4382088

>>4381423
>not getting the mighty boosh reference

Friggen plebs

>> No.4382717

>>4378475
You say you have fifty pages? What's the plot? just curious. What kind of story arc is there?

>> No.4382726

>>4378447
>what is this portrayal?

figure it out why do you have to be spoon fed everything?

>> No.4382769

>>4378398

I'd want throw food at you. In fact I do, you write like a wankiron.

>> No.4384446

>>4382717

the story arc is a bit arbitrary/haphazard. starts off with this guy and his little cliche daydream right before he tries to kill himself (its explained that the 'portrayal' is more of a set of thought processes), moves back-and-forth between posthumous life and the guy growing up. the main parts of the book are his ostensibly autistic wife's car accident/euthanasia and most events after it happened including alcoholism, poverty, treatment, etc. book ends with a bunch of ramblings from the protagonist. most of the dialogue is written in a Wigan apostrophe-heavy vernacular. book finishes with a small outline of a parallel universe and how much better it was/is, and what happens to the characters about a decade into the actual universe. the book is tragicomedy/hysterical realism as far as im aware

i hate it a little bit and ive got notes and stuff about a new idea

>> No.4384472

>>4384446

a decade later, i should say.