/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.4326901]

I just read Civilization and its Discontents by Freud, and I was just wondering what Freud would think of the internet and 4chan in particular. What would he think of anonymity and child pornography?


Are we on here because we're using sublimation? Releasing repressed regression and sexual urges in a more socially accepted way than we normally could?

How would he see CP on /b/ for example. Is there any way that it could be seen as a good thing, because since perverts and pedophiles are looking at this stuff on the internet, they aren't going out and molesting children themselves? Or is that a paradox because of supply and demand.

[Anonymous No.4326934]

CP on /b/

>You mean a bunch of teenagers posting picks of their girlfriends? It's hardly hardcore cp, but rather a bunch of dumb teenage girls pics getting passed around.

CP isn't even as damaging as it once was. It is now damaging because people make such a huge deal out of it. We are dramatizing the problem. The internet age has changed everything especially the access to camera and privacy with young people like never before.

[Anonymous No.4326945]

>>4326934

I know it doesn't happen often anymore, but I still see hardcore CP on there occasionally. I'm just curious what Freud would have thought of it.

Also, I always see drawn images of CP...loli? Is that better in some way because nobody is being exploited?

[Anonymous No.4326972]

>>4326945
The concept of pedophilia is awful. When you become older and you understand the reality of being manipulated like that it can be devastating. I know that looking back some experiences I had with older people were devastating, For example my uncle who was a jail bird and drug addict used to steal from my family when he would visit. He would make all kinds of promises to me and thus getting me to ask for him to keep coming around making him seem more innocent in regards to the missing objects. To know that I was maniuplated like that due to my ignorance or lack of understanding is fustrating. It doesn't hold me back, but it makes me angry. Sexuality is a major subject in human life so lossing your virginity or having your first sexual expereine wrongly made can damage you. When you account for the way synapses in the brain work you see a destructive pattern coming from such over exposure or manipulation of a young ignorant child.

Teenage pc is hardly that big of a deal unless you are talking about acual young people. I don't see how any reasonable person could engage in such acts. If you are even mildly intelligent you know the reasons it is wrong to do so. You know how different life looks through your own eyes as a child and than now an adult.

What scares me about modern society today is that our deviance is becoming so well accepted and not that it hasn't been before, but it is being propagandized which changes a lot. I hope we don't see a huge rises in pedophillia due to the regression of human virtue in western cultures.

[Anonymous No.4326977]

>>4326945
Not him, but personally I find loli to be acceptable, because the whole point of CP being illegal is that children are being exploited/beaten/raped to get the CP taped, and that shit ain't right, but when some jap draws good art for someone's pleasure that stuff's beautiful, and no one gets hurt.
My two cents, there.
>inb4 weeaboo

[Anonymous No.4326982]

>>4326901
>/b/

do any /lit/ users actually even use that board? i've never even been on it tbh. just went straight to the boards the appealed to me (/lit/ and /fa/).

[Anonymous No.4326991]

>>4326982

I'm sure some do. Some might have even started there, being I suppose the most popular board on the site. Who knows. I don't venture that way.

I'm not really sure I see the point of /b/ to be honest. Is it sublimation like said above? Doing what we can't do in real life to release these urges society keeps repressed inside of us?

[Anonymous No.4326996]

>>4326945
people liking hardcore CP?.

IMO He would say that the libido of those people have been fixated into little children for some reason while they grew up. Some of them would have remorse, and bad feelings about it, because of their "superego".

Drawing loli or writing a novel about it , could be a sublimation. Watching it , and feeling bad about it dependes on your culture, your morals etc.

[Anonymous No.4327017]

>>4326991
/b is anonymous, so nobody knows that you are there. There is no sublimation, is just that there is no rules. If you feel bad about it.. there you go.. your superego bothering you.

sublimation is when you find ways to deal with your libido in constructive, and aceptable ways.
For example if you like violence since you where a child, then you sublimate it by becoming a rugby player. You play your violence in a "constructive way".

[Anonymous No.4327025]

>>4326991
/b/ was interesting when I was 14 and had never been exposed to the "dark side of the internet." It was a form of escapism and I found a sense of belonging in knowing that not everyone was a moralist "normal". After that excitement wears off though, /b/ is just a huge waste in time even by 4chan standards.

So yeah you're right basically. You don't have to abide by any social rules and you can express opinions that you'd be ostracized for in society.

[Anonymous No.4327038]

>>4326901
I really wish he were alive today. I'd love to see his explanation for the rise in popularity of futanari, among other things.

[Anonymous No.4327060]

I'm strongly opposed to lolicon or child porn of any kind.

Watching lolicon is, to a certain extent, indulging in their pedophillic desires and that is unacceptable. It is unacceptable because it is unecessary, no pedophile needs to masturbate to children, watching loli is not the lesser evil because there's a much lesser evil option: not to indulge in pedophillic desires at all. There's several options for struggling pedophiles, they can control themselves by their own will and simply don't allow such thoughts to happen, they can condition themselves to enjoy adult porn by watching it when they're very aroused and deprived of masturbation and by watching it regularly, they can condition themselves to dislike dislike sexual thoughts about children by inflicting physical or emotional pain on themselves when they appear, they can take several different kinds of medication that lowers and even completely remove their libido, etc. Note that those more extreme options aren't really necessary unless everything else fails, which is unlikely. I've managed to almost completely remove my deviant desires by sheer willpower.

And this is only regarding pedophillic *thoughts*, there are much easier and simple alternatives for watching child porn (lolicon), masturbating to your own thoughts is very easy , you could also masturbate thinking about nothing at all, you could withhold masturbation for a while and engage in it when simply touching yourself is enough to orgasm.

[Anonymous No.4327092]

>>4327060
Lets assume for a moment that we've managed to completely eradicate all forms of eroticism involving children from CP to advertisements to human development; children wear burkas and the entire puberty process occurs at midnight on the child's 18th birthday.

What's stopping pedophiles from raping children now? How are you going to erase their pedophilic desir-

>I've managed to almost completely remove my deviant desires by sheer willpower.

wait what

oh god

AAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAA HOLY SHIT

[Anonymous No.4327121]

>>4326991
I'd probably say /v/ or /a/ is the most popular board on 4chan. However, /b/ is up there I'm sure.

[Anonymous No.4327124]

>>4327017
>there is no rules
there are rules, plus there is a hivemind, etc.

>muh free anonymous internet

shut the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.4327139]

he would probably say the internet is just one giant outlet for the common man to vent the unresolved aspects of his id.

as for 4chan and wierd porn - neuroses....
but he would totally be into the wierd porn.

[Anonymous No.4327152]

>>4327124
no, nobody knows you are watching lolis.
By no rules i mean , there is no one telling you "CP?, ew thats gross"

[Anonymous No.4327159]

>>4326901
it would be impossible to define "using the internet" as one sweeping symptom or disorder. the internet is gigantic and people could technically use it for all kinds of reasons (though the majority use the same 5 websites).

idk, i'd be curious what kierkegaard would think about it tbh.

[Anonymous No.4327224]

>>4327139
I wish I could bring Freud back for a year and expose him to all the fetishistic places on the internet.

[Anonymous No.4327229]

>>4327152
>there is no one telling you "CP?, ew thats gross"

anytime someone brings that shit up on this board, i tell them to fuck off. given how popular /b/ is, i'm sure people tell them that over there as well. pedos are fucking disgusting and should be incinerated on the spot.

[Anonymous No.4327240]

>>4327229
Sounds like you're in denial, like those religious people that campaign against homosexuality until someone catches them in bed with another guy.

[Anonymous No.4327243]

>>4326977
A lot of jap artists who draw loli trace their models from real CP, or at least use real CP to help them study child anatomy

so, there's that

[Anonymous No.4327244]

>>4327229
yeah but .. who gives a fuck about someone that you dont even see telling you something. Is different if is a co-worker, the aunt, or anyone in real life.

[Anonymous No.4327252]

>>4327243
That's a myth, rustle is the only one, and it's fairly obvious looking at his art.

[Anonymous No.4327256]

>>4327240
stalebread nigga.

>>4327244
lots of people give a shit. thats why memes catch on in the first place. because unoriginal pom poms copy each other ad nauseam.

[Anonymous No.4327262]

>>4327060
>I've managed to almost completely remove my deviant desires by sheer willpower.

No you haven't.

[Anonymous No.4327264]

>>4327252
while it's a myth that most/all do, certainly many do, its its funny that out of them all you choose one of the artists that actually does not trace.


this is not the appropriate board for this

[Anonymous No.4327276]

I firmly believe that we (society)are hypocrites when it comes to a lot of things including child molestation, I think that growing up in a poor neighborhood with high crime, with your father in jail and a crack-addicted stripper/prostitute mother is a lot more detrimental to your mental health than being sexually molested, and yet we don't seem to give a shit about those kids.

[Anonymous No.4327301]

>>4327276

This sounds awfully like a pedophile trying to rationalize his aberrant desires. Just saying.

[Anonymous No.4327312]

>>4327276
Child molesters are an easy target, you don't have to think about circumstances that led them to it etc.

The worst part is that when people demonize child molesters and say shit like, "he's absolute scum a monster if I saw him I'd string up and cut his balls off then leave him in the desert to starve sick son of a bitch", there's no way that isn't doing further damage to the victims of child molestation. You've now been victimized not by some horny old guy with a lack of self-control, but some heinous monster so far from human that he doesn't even deserve basic human dignities.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/29/vigilante-murder-paedophile-bristol-bijan-ebrahimi

[Anonymous No.4327319]

>>4327276
>I think that growing up in a poor neighborhood with high crime, with your father in jail and a crack-addicted stripper/prostitute mother is a lot more detrimental to your mental health than being sexually molested

it doesn't work like that. each person has genetic and environmental factors that affect how they respond to later traumas. two different people can respond to the same trauma entirely distinctively (one gets ptsd, the other moves on and hardly seems to care). so you can have a kid who grows up w/ the setting/parenting you described and they turn out fine and the molested kid with the great parents goes nuts and vice versa.

[Anonymous No.4327336]

>>4327038
heterosexual guys who think vaginas are ugly

not that complicated really

[Anonymous No.4327379]

>>4327301
Don't get me wrong I still think that molesting kids is horrible.
>>4327312
Indeed. Also anyone that kills a child molestor on his own is just as bad imo.
>>4327319
yes I am aware of that, is just that seeing the effects that sexually molested kids and kids brought up in the conditions I mentioned have, I didn't see much difference, I understand that some people will react different to some situation due to genetic predisposition.
I suppose that since is harder to conect the dots(or maybe they just don't wan to?) of poverty to mental illness people ignore these other kids.

[Anonymous No.4327408]

>>4327336
Are we really meant to be satisfied with that?

Don't you think it's a little strange that some men would find repulsive the thing evolution should have made most appealing to them? Doesn't anybody think there could be a reason beyond the most absurdly reductive theories posited by pop-psychologists?

[Anonymous No.4327413]

>>4327408

maybe vaginas are just ugly tho

[Anonymous No.4327425]

>>4327408

lol if you think there are strong selective forces influencing the aesthetic opinions of men on vaginas

[Anonymous No.4327430]

>>4327038
The opposite of 'penis envy'.
The male can only empathize with a female who has a penis as he lacks a vagina himself. Her erection indicates sexual arousal and pleasure in a way the male can fully understand.

[Anonymous No.4327466]

>>4327430

This is very close to my own pet theory.

men into futanari are often otaku loser types -- so involuted, so trapped in self-imposed hermitage, so totally alienated from interaction with females, that the only frame of reference they have to understand sex is their own masturbation; futanari is essentially the fetishization of your own penis, because that's all you've really got access to.

[Anonymous No.4327488]

>>4327430
>Her erection indicates sexual arousal and pleasure in a way the male can fully understand
This is just too accurate to be true.
How did you come to this conclusion?

[Anonymous No.4327496]

>>4327466
perhaps that is a case of projection?
regardless, there are studies available with a google search

[Anonymous No.4327505]

>>4327466

Playing off this, it's probably also why female characters in anime are almost universally either two-dimensional amalgamations of stereotypes, or men drawn as cute girls.

[Anonymous No.4327509]

>>4327466
This idea ignores far too many factors and Freud would scoff at you.

"otaku loser types" would be, for the most part, the only ones who were even aware of futanari. If you consider traps part of this, then most normalfags would never admit or would simply suppress their desires so as not to seem weird, even to themselves, whereas otakus are often completely honest to themselves and others (at least other otakus) about their interests.

[Anonymous No.4327510]

>>4327430

Pretty sure there was a TED talk about this

>Men are evolutionary wired to get erect when they see erections
>Futanari are also often portayed as having over-active sex drives
>They are otherwise heavily feminine and drawn without blemishes

As such

>Arousal from feminine form
>Arousal from sexual appetite
>Arousal from sight of other erections

[Anonymous No.4327533]

>>4327505
That's because most anime and manga writers are men and are therefore better at writing men.

Same reason there are very few interesting and dynamic female characters on television. You have to go to film for interesting female characters.

Besides, the guys in those anime are usually just as flat. The shows aren't packaged on quality writing, most of them just use the same old tropes.

Of course, there are good anime out there featuring characters with depth, both sexes.

[Anonymous No.4327535]

>>4327509

"Traps" are a completely different wheelhouse. Futanari porn is very, very penis-centered (the futanari's penis is literally insatiable; obsession with masturbation is a very common theme -- they masturbate literally all the time). Trap porn is more concerned with other aesthetics -- the contrast of the male form in female clothes, the anus, etc. In many cases a small "feminized" kind of penis is preferred here. Whereas futanari is all about big old dicks on a lady, the bigger the better -- and it's all about those penises seeking pleasure, violating, cumming -- etc.

Trust me I'm an expert

[Anonymous No.4327547]

>>4327535
Well then that only supports my point, since only those who watch anime in the first place would come across futanari. normalfags would have to get past the idea of jerking off to cartoons before they even enter the realm of what those cartoons are presenting him.

[Anonymous No.4327554]

>>4327510
>Men are evolutionary wired to get erect when they see erections

It doesnt help evolution..

And i dont get erect when I see an erection.

[Anonymous No.4327588]

>>4327535
I'd also like to add that Futa is mostly Female-on-Female, not F-on-M, the male is barely present in stories including Futa.
You are really a knowledgeable man, I commend you.

[Anonymous No.4327594]

>>4327408
It is what we are accustomed to. Habit and familiarity work this way. It is also societal influence.

Say you date a girl with a nice tight vagina. No big hangy lips, not even a litte. Very perfect cammel toe looking. You love her, enjoy sex with her, have a strong attachment to her.

Than you start fucking a girl with a different looking vagina. It isn't as neat looking as the other girl you loved. You judge this one based upon the last. You dislike it because it is not what you are familiar with. Maybe you even place a pseudo intellectual reason for disliking it like it is that way because she sleep around.


Now ask himself. Why don't i like my new girls vagina

>Because It doesn't look like the other one.

[Anonymous No.4327609]

>>4327588

Futanari on male is quite delicious shit though.

http://g.e-hentai.org/g/608727/6be872ea7d/

It takes a connoisseur's taste to appreciate, though.

[Anonymous No.4327615]

>>4327609
let me guess.

you love your mom, not so much your dad. He was very strict, and your mom .. very kind.

[Anonymous No.4327623]

>>4327615

I love them both very much and they were both more lenient than they should have been with me, dad more than mom.

[Anonymous No.4327640]

>>4327623
normal family.

Why arent you a normal fag!

[Anonymous No.4327659]

>>4327640

I just love dicks too much.

[Anonymous No.4327742]

>>4327609
It's incredibly hard to find, tho, there's little of it and much less translated.
I also find it amazing how open /lit/ is to discussing these topics, it truly is the best board around here.

[Anonymous No.4327760]

>>4327742

If you use e-hentai (or even better, if you can into sadpanda) then it's much easier.

Like so: http://exhentai.org/g/645766/5c739d2c78/

[Anonymous No.4327875]

>>4327554

>Doesn't help evolution

Your bed is meant to get an erection when it see's other erections. It's something to do with mating

[Anonymous No.4327942]

>>4326901
>2013
>Freud

I think Siegmund would worry more about how he should feed his family.

[Anonymous No.4327976]

Did he/anyone of note ever talk about zoophilia?

[Anonymous No.4327982]

>>4327510
>that fucking ted talk
I've seen it. Ogi Ogas, right? It's pop-psy evo-psy bullshit. The studies they did on male arousal didn't take into account the search term "pussy" because it was too often linked to gay porn.
Yes, I'm not joking. This supposedly exhaustive study on human sexuality didn't bother to find out how much straight men were attracted to vaginas.

[Anonymous No.4327992]

>>4327982
Good....because chicks with dicks turns every switch off for me.

[Anonymous No.4327991]

>>4327535
What about those of us who like both futa and trap porn?

[Anonymous No.4328909]

>>4327992

What are you, gay?

[Anonymous No.4328913]

I've been browsing 4chan for five years and I've never encountered CP, not even on /b/. I've seen creepers on /tv/ jerk off to child actresses though

[Anonymous No.4328925]

>>4328913
It used to get posted on /b/ at 1:00PM EST like clockwork.

[Anonymous No.4328958]

>>4327535
If it's all about PENIS CARNAGE could it be a sexual power fantasy. Otakus use a woman as a proxy for their lust and a need of sexual conquest since they suppress their drives and as such they don't want to be honest with their fantasies. Or they see themselves as feminine and want to empower themselves.

[Anonymous No.4329472]

>>4328958

Perhaps. There's certainly an angle of power fantasy to it. But so often futanari porn is about two futanari who consensually fuck each other's brains out.

Even where the futanari is raping someone -- the reasoning is more along the lines of "I can't control my penis!!!!" instead of the typical hentai rapist who is fully in control of his faculties and rapes in pursuit of some hierarchical men-are-naturally-superior-to-women, women-should-serve-men mindset (search "fatalpulse" for some examples of this, it gets very... yeah).

You might call this a hair-splitting distinction but I think it's illustrative. Futanari is on some level a kind of sexualized insanity. The futanari has been driven insane by their desires and cannot control themselves. They are mindless; futarnari exist only to put their dicks in things.

So in the end, the futanari is really just as powerless as whatever she violates. In that sense, fantasizing about futanari is actually the abrogation of desire for power, not the fetishization of it. The futanari fan wishes to dive headlong into their lust and drown. They want to sacrifice their their sense of self for endless sexual pleasure.

[Anonymous No.4329560]

Holy shit anon, some great analysis going on here!

[Anonymous No.4329611]

I get turned on by children enjoying sex.

I don't know how else to put it. I'm not physically attracted to nude children at all and I find rape abhorrent, but the idea of a 9 year old girl *wanting* the dick and enjoying it makes me hard. It's not just with children either, if I had to generalize I'd say that I get turned on by the presence of sexual desire in situations where there isn't supposed to be any.

[Anonymous No.4329617]

>>4329611
lolis in heat is top-tier stuff

[Anonymous No.4330728]

>>4328958
I like futa, and I'm very honest about my fantasy. Do you mean honest in the sense of honest to the outside world? I don't think you'll find that radical honesty in any fetish, except for furry.

[Anonymous No.4330796]

>>4329560
Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.4330806]

>>4329611
My fetishes, which sometimes go to weird places (including, though not necessarily, paedophilia) are the same. It's sort of like there's an underlying continuity to all the weird shit I find hot, a single theme that is present in all of them, but I can only see it out of the corner of my eye. When you talk about how you like sexual desire where it shouldn't be, I don't have that exactly, but I have very similar things which seem almost arbitrary, and have barely any connection to the simple physicality of sex.

Just sayin' for solidarity. It'd probably be benign as fuck if you laid it all out logically. Doesn't make you a bad person unless you act on it.

[Anonymous No.4330865]

>>4330806

I'd never act on it. I'm not *attracted* to young girls and I don't look at them sexually. But if a 11 year old girl walked up to me and said "mistah, can I suck your dick" then I wouldn't be able to say no - not because she's a little girl and I want to fuck little girls, but because she totally wants it and it's horribly wrong and it makes me rock hard.

it is really hard to figure out what the underlying theme is and put it into words, but it doesn't bother me too much. I'm pretty sure I'm not a pedophile and I have a healthy sex life with my girlfriend, I just masturbate to some weird shit.

[Anonymous No.4330874]

>>4330865
I think the concept you're looking for is "taboo".

>it's a taboo to want to fuck someone under 18 if you're over 18
>it's even more of a taboo for them to want it
You're not really a pedophile, you just want it because you know it's wrong and even more wrong for them to want it/get off on it. I'm pretty similar in that.

[Anonymous No.4330879]

>>4330874

Yeah but it doesn't apply to everything. Incest is wrong but I couldn't fuck my relatives if you paid me a million dollars.

maybe my cousins, but cousins don't count.

[Anonymous No.4330885]

>>4330879
Not everyone is into every taboo. I know eating shit is wrong, and I don't want to do that. It's just that the idea of it being wrong/taboo is what makes some things hot (or a major part of it) along with the people involved wanting it, it's as close as you can get to the idea you're discussing, if it isn't that itself. I think we're agreed here, but having trouble getting our ideas across. I feel the same way you do about this stuff.

[Anonymous No.4330974]

>>4330874

isn't 18 being "the age of consent" a very recent development? For thousands of years men took young brides. The taboo of it is probably less than fifty years old. It is my personal belief that a female's physical prime (for appearance and other reasons childbirth, etc) is 16-20.

[Anonymous No.4330996]

>>4330974
Yes, it is. However, for most of the people here it's been in place for as long as they or their parents have lived for, so it's still a taboo, just one that goes against innate/instinctual sexual desires. A taboo doesn't have to have been around for thousands of years to function, it just has to be ingrained for the majority of a person's life or at least formative years, and that's the case with the age of consent. That's why I used the specific example of age of consent, it's a good example of a "pure taboo," there's nothing inherently wrong in having sex with a willing 17-year-old, but we're raised around the idea that if you're over 18, it's wrong.

[Anonymous No.4332966]

>tfw dreamt about having sex with your mother
twice

I also dreamt I was assaulted by an old, fat man that specifically intended to rape me. The worst however is probably when I dreamt I was at a friend's house and noticed bruises on his little siblings' necks and all of a sudden their mother stands in the doorway with a huge cock and begins masturbating furiously.

I wish I was making this stuff up. If I'd tell all this to a psychoanalyst he'd say I read Freud and was pulling his leg.

[Anonymous No.4332992]

>>4332966
Oh, and I once dreamt I killed a young woman with a Japanese traditional knife, in a Japanese home during an autumn night. Just stabbed her to death repeatedly with many quick movements and driven by anger, with clenched teeth. She had the same hair colour as my mother, but that's where the similarities end I guess.

[Anonymous No.4333032]

>>4327594

haha dude what. Are you from some third world place? 'cause you talk like it

[Anonymous No.4333047]

>>4332966
Modern psychologists would say your dreams mean nothing.
:)

[Anonymous No.4333068]

>>4333047
Why?

[Anonymous No.4333087]

/d/ gets threads like this all the time. A lot of them have fairly good psychoanalyzes of themselves. I like their threads more than this one.

[Anonymous No.4333156]

>>4327060
>I've managed to almost completely remove my deviant desires by sheer willpower.

inb4 he snaps, tearing his clothes off and diving into the nearest ballpit

[Anonymous No.4333160]

>>4327121
No, /b/ accounts for like 1/3 of the site's traffic.

[Anonymous No.4333164]

>>4327229
>>4327124
>>4327060


All these supressed evangelical types
I wouldn't want my baby near their bananas

[Anonymous No.4333172]

>sublimation
think of all the rage threads and greentext stories that didnt happen

[Anonymous No.4333173]

>>4327301
You would know.

[Anonymous No.4333257]

>>4333172
Didn't think of it like that. Interesting.

I think 4chan deserves a bit more analysis in general actually.

[Anonymous No.4333281]

>>4333068

Not that anon and my knowledge of Freud is flimsy but even Freud spoke about dreams not simply representing the exact content of their visual form. He called it displacement.

Maybe you want to kill your mother (or physically harm her) but your unconscious finds that more unacceptable so you substitute the act of killing for sexing her. Sex is an exertion of power over another individual after all.

[Anonymous No.4333306]

>>4332966
I once dreamt that I stabbed my mother to death then used the blood as lube to rape my father

[Anonymous No.4333331]

>>4333281
Not the guy you were replying to, I was just wondering.

I've had a couple of dreams where I kiss my old theatre company tutor. Does that mean I want to fuck her? Because I don't need my subconciousness to tell me that.