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/lit/ - Literature

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4285243 No.4285243 [Reply] [Original]

Who here as read Joyce?

Are his books really that hard to understand? I'm pretty retarded, will i probably not get much out of them?

>> No.4285247

>>4285243
Everything except for Finnegans Wake is manageable, unless, of course, you're pretty retarded. SOL then.

>> No.4285292

A Portrait Of The Artist As A Young Man - absolute shit

>> No.4285299

>>4285292
no u

>> No.4285314

>>4285292
absolute pleb

>> No.4285316

I've read everything except FW. The key to Joyce, and Ulysses especially, is paying attention. It's not something you can skim. You also have to accept that you're not going to "get" everything the first time. Keep on moving. Don't feel TOO bad about skipping pages (especially in episodes 14 and 16,) but you shouldn't do it too often, lest you miss something important.

Companion texts are fine, too. They're helpful for context.

>> No.4285318

It's not an easy read, but don't elevate it to something it isn't.

>> No.4285328

>>4285299
>>4285314
name two good things about it

>> No.4285332

>>4285316
>>4285247
These. Its difficulty gets hyped up. Good books though, so you should read them.

>> No.4285350

>>4285292
What's with the sudden influx of APOTAAAYM hate?
Is it in school syllabuses now?

>> No.4285373

Dubliners is a very well written and easily understandable collection of short stories that manage to give you a deep relationship with each of their protagonists in a very short word count.

Ulysses shifts the focus away from character somewhat and gives you an even deeper relationship with the setting of the work in a much longer word count.

Portrait blends character with author, and fiction with reality. It's not a particularly fun read, in my opinion, but it has its merits in that it gives a lot of context to Ulysses and Dubliners.

The Wake is Joyce's own private joke. He wrote it to show off how clever he was and to ensure that scholars would be arguing over what he meant for centuries to come. I can't be bothered to find the quote but he practically admitted to this, so unless you're one of those scholars the book probably isn't your cup of tea.

If you're just reading for pleasure, then pick up Dubliners. If you like that and want a little more depth, then try Ulysses. I don't think general will readers will enjoy his other two books unless they're particularly taken with Dubliners and Ulysses.

>> No.4285397
File: 151 KB, 1360x768, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4285397

First go like this, spin around--stop. Now double take three times--one, two, three...

>> No.4285403

>>4285373
The quote you are thinking of is for Ulysses, scholars arguing etc. not Finnegans Wake.

>> No.4285463

Portrait and Dubliners are simply beautiful but I haven't tried Ulysses or FW yet.

>> No.4285473

>>4285373
Regardless, the wordplay of Finnegans Wake is fun to read.

>> No.4285482

Ulysses transcends the good/bad dichotomy

>> No.4285501

>>4285373
>He wrote it to show off how clever he was and to ensure that scholars would be arguing over what he meant for centuries to come
is this true? thats fucking hilarous James Joyce sounds like one based motherfucker

>> No.4285513 [DELETED] 

>>4285482
*tips fedora*

>> No.4285528

>>4285513
you new or something?

Dubliners is a pretty "easy" read

>> No.4285549

>>4285528

He never said or implied that it was hard.

>> No.4285554

>>4285501
or just a retard

>> No.4285562

>>4285554

>a retard

At 23 James Joyce learned the Norwegian language playwright Henrik Ibsen published in so that he could review and submit criticism of his newest releases.

Yeh the guy sure was less intelligent than people on here lol

>> No.4285589

>>4285562
just slightly more autistic.

But that's also why I love him :3

>> No.4285594

>>4285562
>Ibsen
mah nigga, Joyce is one fucking cool guy

>> No.4285599

>>4285594

He also spoke about eight languages fluently and very successful pioneered a new style of writing. People on /lit/ are so fucking stupid sometimes.

>> No.4285619

>>4285599
I don't think the 'retard' comment was said in all sincerity.

>> No.4285626

>>4285619

Maybe not, but you can't be sure on this board. Semi literate imbeciles get irritated when they fail to find the meaning in a partially difficult work and they tend to write both the book and author off as 'pseudo intellectual' or something similar.

>> No.4285647

>>4285562
thanks for proving my point.

>> No.4286470

How comic exactly is Ulysses?
I have read Portrait and quite enjoyed it, the only reason I haven't given Ulysses a shot is I fear that too much of it will be focused on puns and constructing elaborate scenarios. I liked portrait for its reflective nature, and I really want more of that, plus more stream of consciousness etc.
So am I just an idiot, or should I steer clear?

>> No.4287094

>>4285626
why do you get so worked up about it? They're so obviously troll, I instinctually ignore them.

>> No.4287101

>>4286470

No, you'd like Ulysses. The first 100 or so words (Telemachus I think) is focused on Stephen and his interior thoughts. The bulk of the novel focuses on other characters and often dissolves into their thought in SOC. It's rarely silly tho there is a bit of bizarre silliness near the end in a brothel. . .

>> No.4287138

>>4287101
i think the stephen chapters are like Portrait but the poldy chapters are very comic, and they make up most of the book. i don't really agree that it's really similar to Portrait's sort of "reflective" thing at all, though there are parts that best Portrait in that area. i mean poldy is "reflective" but he isn't really reflective in the same way as stephen

>> No.4287168

>>4287101
>>4287138
Hmmm. Well it is good to hear that there is a mix, at least. It's not that I hate the Confederacy of Dunces style of writing-- I actually quite like it-- it's just not what I am looking for right now. Will get to it eventually.
Thanks a bunch for the insight though, seriously.

>> No.4287177

>>4285562
Jesus fuck I need to get to work to be on his level

>> No.4287204

Anyone else here read Chamber Music? I found it quite charming

>> No.4287209

>>4285647
that you are a retard?

>> No.4287235

>>4287138
Some of the Bloom sections transcend the comic/tragic dichotomy... just straight up beautiful.

>> No.4287265

>>4287209
Yes

>> No.4287266

>>4285243
You'll probably get fucked over in episodes 3, 6, 7, 12, 14, 15 and 17, but aside from that, you should be able to gleen the basic story from the half of the book that you can understand.

>> No.4287268
File: 64 KB, 771x528, gamz.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4287268

>> No.4287282

>>4287268

It may be because I've not had my coffee, but I really don't get the point that this image is trying to make.

Is it really suggesting that Twilight is the new Ulysses?

>> No.4287297

>>4287268
This is like comparing a bi-plane (twilight) to a Super Hornet (Ulysses).

>> No.4287478

>>4285328
I like the prose.
Its subtlety.

>> No.4287490
File: 538 KB, 410x2048, got.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4287490

>>4287268
except no-one who knows what they're talking about think Ulysses is garbage

you poor confused soul

>> No.4287538

>>4287490
That picture bugs me.
It doesn't acknowledge the fact that there is a difference between appreciation of technique or craftsmanship, and your own personal enjoyment

You can appreciate the fact that Ulysses took far greater skill to create than GOT, but that doesn't change the relative enjoyment someone might get out of it

>> No.4287551

Im reading IJ right now and im cool with that, but Im still scared of Ulysses (I read FW and Im not gonna touch that in the next 5years). Could I handle Ulysses also?

>> No.4287567

>>4287490
I like this picture even though I'm an admited subjectivist. "Literary techniques and concepts such as stream-of-consciousness and intertextuality" have no inherent value, they are just forms of communication. Obviously that doesn't mean I like Game of Thrones better than the Ulysses, heavens no, but I get annoyed when people use words like "virtuous" to define something and don't realise that they are being arbitrary in their perception of what form of communication is superior to what other.

>>4287538
In the grand scheme of things, though, a table being expertly crafted and a table being just barely put together, has very little importance. This is humour, don't give it much thought.

>> No.4287588

>>4287551
Ulysses is a huge step up from Infinite Jest. Infinite Jest's plot borders on pulpy at times and moves at a good pace, not to mention that thematically the book is probably a lot more relatable to a contemporary, presumably American or Americanized reader. Don't worry about ticking Ulysses off your bucket list, just pick it up when it feels natural to.

>> No.4287589
File: 33 KB, 500x375, 1364485059051.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4287589

>>4285316
>skipping pages

>> No.4287622

>>4285243
Ulysses is easy to understand if you read it aloud.
It's not as hard as you'd imagine to be honest.
They do readings of it during literature festivals here in Dublin.
It also helps if you're intoxicated

>> No.4288313

>>4287622

You might think this guy is bullshitting but it really does help to be drunk when you are reading it, considering how Joyce was off his head when he wrote it.