I've read "God is not Great" by Christopher Hitchens shortly after my atheistic awakening and I'm now opening up this book. Is it all it's hyped up to be?

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Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:22:54 2013 No.4242704 [DELETED]

I've read "God is not Great" by Christopher Hitchens shortly after my atheistic awakening and I'm now opening up this book. Is it all it's hyped up to be?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:25:12 2013 No.4242710 No. Read The Rage Against God.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:32:14 2013 No.4242720

>>4242704
>atheistic awakening
I groaned out loud.

God Delsuion freakin sucks. It might contain some "wow!" moments for teenagers just getting over what their mommy and daddy told them on Sundays growing up, but it lacks any real theological/spiritual thought. Dawkins almost parodies himself with his vitriolic hatemongering, basically turning himself into the same doctrinarian asshole that he imagines himself screaming at in the pages of the book, only with opposite views.

If you are still clinging to the lazy belief of an actual God literally being in this world, in the sky or whatever, and simply want to choose a new set of shallow beliefs to cling to without doing anything about your laziness, yeah maybe it's the book for you. But if you want to grow spiritually and deepen your understanding of what it means to be a religious individual outside of the modern sense of "being a slave to a supserstitious organized religion" then you need to change your mindset and revisit the very book you are currently rebelling against.

Look up the word "metaphor" in the dictionary and the read the Book of Job, faggot.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:33:14 2013 No.4242721

No. Dawkins knows lots of biology but he's biased. He's too militant to stay objective. He's aggressive and most of the time he puts up claims without stating any reasoning behing them.

Read more Hitchens, preferably his early work. I can recommend "Letters to a Young Contrarian".

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:36:13 2013 No.4242730 File: 26 KB, 375x500, when-atheism-becomes-religion.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Read this instead, chucklefuck.

>>	rangaha !KJKZ7n2h3I Tue Nov 5 01:36:13 2013 No.4242733 File: 1.57 MB, 1920x1187, 1381818308349.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Dawkins is to atheism what the vlogbrothers are to science

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:37:13 2013 No.4242735

>>4242720
>But if you want to grow spiritually and deepen your understanding of what it means to be a religious individual outside of the modern sense of "being a slave to a supserstitious organized religion" then you need to change your mindset and revisit the very book you are currently rebelling against.
Not OP, but please tell me what you think is "a religious individual", I'm interested.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:38:13 2013 No.4242739 >>4242733 you funny m8

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:39:13 2013 No.4242745 >reading anything by the new atheism crew ISHGYDIDGYGYFYG

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:41:14 2013 No.4242748 >>4242720 You seem like an assumptive asshole.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:42:14 2013 No.4242752 >>4242720 OP here. I abandoned the idea of a god years ago buddy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:42:14 2013 No.4242753 File: 126 KB, 1440x900, hitch.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	rangaha !KJKZ7n2h3I Tue Nov 5 01:43:14 2013 No.4242758 >>4242739 >implying I'm wrong

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:47:14 2013 No.4242774

Dawkins is too aggressive for his purposes, I think. He literally attacks creationists and religious fundamentalists with his words, but that's not the way to go about doing things.

If his goal is persuasion, he needs to be gentler. Then people with a different mindset might open up to him. Right now he is only appealing, in an onanistic way, to those that share the same views as him.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:49:13 2013 No.4242777 >>4242758 But I'm not saying you are wrong. The comparison is really funny though. There are things you can love Dawkins for, but most of the time, he acts like a complete faggot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEZ9MYIUzl0

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:50:13 2013 No.4242781 >>4242774 You're talking about this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76OgsklNUHY

>>	rangaha !KJKZ7n2h3I Tue Nov 5 01:56:14 2013 No.4242794 File: 288 KB, 601x603, 1382501129438.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4242777 Ah, sorry then. That vid tho.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:57:14 2013 No.4242795 >>4242752 You proved his point, you shallow minded fucking child.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:58:14 2013 No.4242798

>>4242781
>science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off.

I don't understand Dawkins writing to be persuasive if this is his attitude, because people who don't agree will most certainly fuck off or will attack with the same mindset.

"god is real, and if you don't agree you can fuck off. "

Is actually one of the most common arguments for religion, but Dawkins doesn't accept it, he doesn't fuck off, he just rebukes with the same. dSo it seems almost hypocritical.

I have nothing against Dawkins, just a critique.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:59:14 2013 No.4242799 >>4242748 Yeah but he's right. Dawkins and his brainless followers are religious men without realizing it. Read Nietzsche instead.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 02:10:14 2013 No.4242815

>>4242735
Being ethical, being aware of one's self in relation to others, trying to reach awareness of the divine. Marveling in the fact of existence.

I'm not a big fan of chalking my life up to chemical phenomena, however factual it might be to do so. Those very phenomena are a part of the larger phenomenon of Being itself. Being afraid of the word "god" is just silly, since people are in the habit of calling that idea by a number of names (chance, fortune, fate, coincidence, cause/effect, etc). I'm trying to reach an understanding of God outside of a superstitious sense (ie believing in heaven and hell). Rebelling against the spiritual (religious) side of life is to completely ignore entire half of the coin of existence.

It's super hard to put into words.

>>4242748
Seems Madame, nay, it is.

>>4242752
Cool, I did too. But now I'm trying to figure out what that word actually means and what importance it has in my life. It's easy to give up an idea of God as an oppressive lawmaker but much more difficult to become aware of one's own limits and imperfections.

Anyway, Dawkins fails in his mission to persuade believers not because his arguments are incorrect but because he is trying to provide material proof for an immaterial idea. He fails to see that "God", whatever the fuck that might be, doesn't lie within the limits of human reason, but rather encompasses that very reason itself.
>inb4 Augustine

Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Tue Nov 5 02:14:13 2013 No.4242821
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>>4242704
Just finished the Hitch book too. Better than I thought it might be. Loved Letters to a Young Contrarian, and The Trial of Henry Kissinger

Listened to Dawkins Greatest Show On Earth a while back and it was real good intro science.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 02:23:13 2013 No.4242835 >>4242815 >It's super hard to put into words. I understand perfectly. I'm a similar situation as you. Have you read anything to do with Taoism or other Eastern religions?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 02:30:14 2013 No.4242843 >>4242835 Only very indirectly. I've been meaning to read that stuff for ages, but have never gotten around to it unfortunately. Ever read Spinoza, specifically the Ethics?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 02:35:13 2013 No.4242851 >>4242843 No, can't say I have unfortunately. I'm not much of a reader, and I'm trying to change it, which is why I'm starting to frequent /lit/.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 02:40:13 2013 No.4242856 >>4242851 Cool, good luck bro. Check the his Theological-Political Treatise if you're interested. It's pretty heavy philosophy, so be careful.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 02:43:13 2013 No.4242863 >>4242856 Thanks, and good luck to you as well!

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 02:43:13 2013 No.4242864 read rowe or mackie instead of those hacks how fucking stupid can you be to read dawkins and co and not realize how fucking shitty everything they write is

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 03:48:48 2013 No.4242937 >>4242710 I read The Rage Against God the other day and I couldn't recommend it more. Peter Hitchens is an incredibly underrated author and commentator.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 07:22:32 2013 No.4243157

>>4242815
Actually Dawkins spends a few pages in the book in debunking the idea that he's against a Spinoza's God, and that he accepts the idea of a "God" in nature, in the relationships between beings and existence itself.

He even promotes it, prasing science for helping us reach a higher state of awereness about our universe.

He strictly says that he's not trying to disprove Spinozism, and that the book intends to tackle the personified god of christianity. It's basically an entry book to atheism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 07:48:33 2013 No.4243183 >>4242937 Seconded.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 08:03:32 2013 No.4243201 File: 492 KB, 307x198, iquitobviously.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >atheistic awakening

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 08:05:32 2013 No.4243203
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>>4242798

I think Dawkin's response was apt. Tyson basically spent 10 minutes trying to condescend him with a majorly drawn out pompously self-righteous 'I don't like your attitude'. What else was Dawkin's gonna do? Validate his nonsense with a thought-out response, or subtly-but-right-out-in-the-open tell him to Fuck off?

>>	Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Tue Nov 5 09:33:58 2013 No.4243361 >>4243201 Good.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 14:11:10 2013 No.4243957 >>4242704 >literally considering God Delusion >atheistic awakening I am doing this the hardest I have ever done it before tips fedora

>>	FiRez !!tndrCZJHE+I Tue Nov 5 14:31:11 2013 No.4244008 >>4242745 Sam Harris is superb and The Selfish Gene will be a landmark on the field of biology.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 14:36:10 2013 No.4244020 File: 237 KB, 500x342, euphoria.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4242704

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 17:24:38 2013 No.4244429 File: 1006 KB, 240x182, Fuck this, I'm out.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >atheistic awaken- Dropped.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 17:37:26 2013 No.4244469 File: 44 KB, 188x206, 7.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >"atheistic awakening" >Mfw, if God is real, I'm going to have to share hell with OP Seriously considering converting.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 17:45:25 2013 No.4244495 >>4243157 the christian god exists outside of space and time its not a physical being the idea that you can prove or disprove it is ridiculous

>>	Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Tue Nov 5 23:17:56 2013 No.4245567 >>4244495 Get bent.

Anonymous Wed Nov 6 03:15:11 2013 No.4245980

>>4243157
>personified god of christianity
Not exactly sure what you mean by this but the God of Aquinas, Augustine or pretty much any Catholic is not an anthropomorphic one. Maybe you would know that if you didn't read Dawkins and read something actually important like the Summa.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 03:36:36 2013 No.4246023 File: 10 KB, 500x385, tumblr_lthqnkg3Bj1qa2trso2_500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4242777 240p

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 03:48:06 2013 No.4246044 >>4244495 you are wrong prove me wrong

Anonymous Wed Nov 6 03:54:06 2013 No.4246052

>>4242821
>Listened to Dawkins Greatest Show On Earth a while back and it was real good intro science.
but dawkins has been excommunicated from humanity by women's spokeswoman rebecca watson as a mysogynist and rapist in denial, how do you reconcile with it? Are you a chill-girl stockhom syndrome self-hater by any chance? Tread lightly.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 04:41:06 2013 No.4246126 >>4245980 >the God of...pretty much any Catholic is not an anthropomorphic one this spoken about the part of christianity that has an actual man designated as the final arbiter of god's will on earth -1/10

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 05:27:07 2013 No.4246169 >>4246126 How is that related to an anthromorphic conception of God?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 05:36:06 2013 No.4246179 >>4246169 How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? until we reach a consensus on this let's suspend our divagations about god

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 05:39:06 2013 No.4246184 >>4246179 >dawkins fans

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 05:41:06 2013 No.4246186 >>4246184 are you suggesting they know the answer? who are you quoting?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 06:14:28 2013 No.4246203 File: 1.52 MB, 160x120, 1357480981396.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Butthurt Christians ITT

Anonymous Wed Nov 6 06:18:28 2013 No.4246208

>>4242720

And the Christian Defense League has arrived.

Seriously, atheism must be to theists what the fall of the Iron Curtain is to hardcore communists or what evolutionary psychology is to feminists. Nothing will drive a hardcore theist more mad than the reminder that his beliefs are backed up by zero evidence

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 06:21:28 2013 No.4246211 >>4246208 >Why do these people still bring up there pseudo-physics or "metaphysics," there not backed up by an empirical evidence

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 06:24:29 2013 No.4246215 >>4246211 Metaphysics has been dead since Hume and Kant

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 06:29:28 2013 No.4246221 >>4246211 metaphysics is an oxymoron since you contemplate them with and through nothing else than physics there has never been any "meta" in metaphysics, you are full of shit

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 06:45:29 2013 No.4246235 File: 54 KB, 489x300, dawkins lel.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4246203 /lit/ is riddled with these. It's crazy.

Anonymous Wed Nov 6 06:48:29 2013 No.4246239

>>4246235

Also it's usually evident from the posts on /lit/ that no-one has actually The God Delusion, they just jump the bandwagon saying it's "too aggressive" and "isn't theologically sophisticated enough" (as if that's a serious argument). It's pretty pathetic.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 07:03:28 2013 No.4246246 >>4246239 as i've explained numerous times the hordes of uneducated, ignorant and aggressive religionfags completely misunderstood yet still latched on the criticism of new atheism offered by life-long atheists they are borderline desperate

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 18:56:10 2013 No.4247678 >>4246208 Shit just got fedoracore

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 18:59:10 2013 No.4247690 >tfw people say metaphysics has been dead since Hume and Kant >tfw the other atheists agree

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 19:01:10 2013 No.4247694 >>4246239 I've read The God Delusion and, far from shaking my belief in God, it just made me sad for Dawkins

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 19:04:09 2013 No.4247702 >You don't agree with religion. Congratulations! No one cares! Keep it to yourself. >You don't believe in any gods. Congratulations! No one cares! Keep it to yourself.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 19:05:09 2013 No.4247705 >>4245567 "hey, he said something that shows I'm a fucking idiot who has not idea what he's talking about. Why don't I respond with an insult!"

Anonymous Wed Nov 6 19:05:09 2013 No.4247706

>>4246208
Evolutionary Psychology is pretty shallow and pointless though, it's just a bunch of hypotheses that cannot be supported or backed up. Unlike evolution, which has the support of archeology, or psychology, which has the support and evidence of the actual people being studied, "evolutionary psychology" is just a guessing game because there is nothing solid to actually look at other than "well, that sounds legit."

I haven't been taking part of this discussion, but I wanted you to know that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 19:06:09 2013 No.4247710 >>4246186 Not him, but greentext doesn't necessarily mean he's quoting anyone. It has several meanings, and quoting is only one of those.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 19:11:09 2013 No.4247722 >>4247706 Are you serious, friend? Anything with evolution in its name is scientific. now GTFO heretic

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 19:11:09 2013 No.4247721 >>4246203 >>4246235 >>4246239 >>4246246 fedora circlejerk

Anonymous Wed Nov 6 19:11:09 2013 No.4247720

i think it's interesting that cats on this board always direct philosophical focus on whether or not one god exists. that's the most juvenile aspect of ontology. atheists and theists alike who focus their endeavors on the simple "non-existence/existence of god" will never reach the answer to what they're actually looking for.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 19:17:09 2013 No.4247740 >>4247720 >Implying the system of Thomas Aquinas, the basis of Catholic belief, is not beyond dispute one of the greatest that have ever been formed

Anonymous Wed Nov 6 19:20:10 2013 No.4247747

>>4247740
you misunderstood. the existence/non-existence of god can tie into a ontological "system", and has been done very well by philosophers on both sides of the issue. but very rarely do intelligent philosophers simply dwell on the existence/non-existence of god and not move past it.

Anonymous Wed Nov 6 22:18:40 2013 No.4248270

>>4246215
hahahaohwow.jpg

Heidegger didn't kill metaphysics, neither did Deriida, Hume's and Kant's philosophy are dependent on metaphysis, like every single philosphy situated on the Modernity period

That said, Dawkin is awful and you should be ashamed to even take it seriously, go read some Kierkegaard then come back

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 22:24:39 2013 No.4248295 File: 2.36 MB, 1770x1794, 597120605_21bcc7921b_o.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4244469

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 6 22:55:00 2013 No.4248397 >>4242730 could you talk some more aobut this, it sounds interesting

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 7 05:03:50 2013 No.4249075 >>4242704 Dawkins is a really good writer. I must say I enjoyed The Selfish Gene the most and I prefer his books on biology more. The God Delusion is alright. Not as obnoxious as his Twitter account and more scholary.

What are some literary works with a theme about ethics/human nature? Anonymous Thu Nov 7 05:17:37 2013 No.4249088
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I need ideas. Preferably, the text is from the canon or is highly recognized as a work of literary value (eg. Booker Prize winner). Thanks in advance.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 7 05:18:37 2013 No.4249091 >>4249088 Sorry! Posted it in the wrong area!

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/lit/ - Literature