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/lit/ - Literature

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4229362 No.4229362 [Reply] [Original]

>"dead white guys"

>> No.4229374
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4229374

>"no life experience"

>> No.4229376
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4229376

>"as a rape survivor"

>> No.4229388
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4229388

>"person of colour"

>> No.4229449

>>4229362
>>"dead white guys"

Whenever I read or hear that term I immediately switch off and lose all respect for the writer/speaker.

>> No.4229459

>>4229449

I was talking to this girl I liked and I told her I was taking a History of Western Culture class and when she responded, very obnoxiously, something like, "Yeah, learning about white male supremacy?" I kinda lost all interest in her.

>> No.4229497

>>4229459
I don't even necessarily disagree with the basic principal that more diversity should be introduced into school curricula and the canon, but this "dead white guy" phrase has just become a shibboleth for a certain type of small-minded dogmatist.

>> No.4229560
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4229560

>"How to/self-improvement/motivational bullshit"

>> No.4229576

>>4229459
What is it with non-white non-males and finding excuses to not actually read the works of white males (i.e. all the hardest and worthwhile ones)?

>> No.4229579

>tfw black and hear people use that term
>mfw they have this look like I'm supposed to agree with them but its retarded as fuck to file down centuries worth literature and shit to "lel fuck it cuz they white"

>> No.4229580

>>4229576
what is it with you and being a shit

>> No.4229582

>>4229580
if i typein lower case and forget punctuation it makes my internet sanctimony more laid back and less serious

>> No.4229585

>>4229582
exactly, my friend

but seriously, "all the hardest and worthwhile ones", my ass

>> No.4229587

>>4229576
Because it makes them feel inadequate and contradicts their world view probably. Which is silly.

>> No.4229592

>>4229587
more likely they're just lazy.

>> No.4229596

>>4229579
>its retarded as fuck to file down centuries worth literature and shit to "lel fuck it cuz they white"

old books don't matter because they don't have the ground-breaking modern messages that books have today

>> No.4229597

The reason why dead white guys are so demonized is precisely because of their significance to history. It makes people feel left out and hurts their feelings. It's the equivalent of last place trophies in children's sports.

>> No.4229598

>>4229596
And that's why people still worship Shakespeare and Milton.

>> No.4229600

>>4229598

only by old white guys

>> No.4229602

>>4229596
And the retard of the day award goes to... post number 4229596

>> No.4229605

>>4229596

>ground breaking modern messages

Point me in the direction of these messages.

>> No.4229608

>>4229597
or maybe it's that the victims of oppression can't relate to the benefactors of oppression. although i don't agree that that's a good reason not to read seminally important - not to mention aesthetically beautiful - works of literature. as i believe orwell says in one of his essays, you don't need to necessarily agree with a book's message or implied values to appreciate its value as art.

>> No.4229609
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4229609

>>4229597

And Bloom's the parent with the champion-sprinter child who doesn't want participation medals handed out.

>> No.4229613

>>4229608
>benefactors

sorry, that should be 'beneficiaries'. i always get them mixed up.

>> No.4229614

>>4229602
>post number 4229596
there is no way that isn't a simple ruse
I refuse to believe otherwise
no one is that stupid
... right?

>> No.4229622

>>4229608
>or maybe it's that the victims of oppression can't relate to the benefactors of oppression

The victims of the oppression these authors are somehow responsible for simply because of the color of their skin are also dead. They are also not the only victims of history.

>> No.4229623

>>4229608

I'd say it's absolutely necessary for a 'good' reader to be able to distance himself from the ideas in the text. Formulate a meaningful response, or rebuttal, certainly but it's absurd to deny the aesthetic merit of a work which doesn't nearly correspond to your world view. Unfortunately, some people don't see that.

>> No.4229626

>>4229614
Why?

>> No.4229629

>>4229585
Well, obviously Muslims/Persians and Chinese wrote awesome stuff too. But the last 500 years are dominated by Europeans and males, in pretty much every sphere of thought and culture.

>> No.4229637

>>4229622
i didn't say they were responsible, i just meant that there's a huge gulf of experience that might be hard for some readers to traverse.

>> No.4229641

>>4229623
>Unfortunately, some people don't see that.

unfortunately i'd say that the vast majority of people don't see that.

>> No.4229647
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4229647

>>4229641

You really think so? I haven't been in university for a while now - don't know what the trend is.

>> No.4229646

>>4229629
"Dominated by" I might agree with but the claim you made was "everything worthwhile" and that's not something that I can agree with.

>> No.4229651

>>4229637
It was written decades or even centuries ago. There's a huge gulf of experience to traverse for everyone. Using some victim mentality to pussy out of reading it isn't an excuse.

>> No.4229653

>>4229641
I think you're giving too much validity to tumblr.

>> No.4229683

>>4229598
>>4229602
>>4229605
>>4229626
Come on. Are you that autistic? It's evidently a troll. Now stop feeding it.

>> No.4229690

>>4229683
this board is so goddamn easy to troll lmao.

>> No.4229693

>>4229683
Why though?

>> No.4229694

>>4229690
epin, simbly ebin :^))))))

>> No.4229698

>>4229694
it's honestly kind of tiring how supposed intellectuals continue to use memespeak despite its obvious racist and ablist connotations.

>> No.4229703
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4229703

>>4229698

>> No.4229705

>>4229703
>posting thoughtcrime AND triggering me

wow. enjoy your bran

>> No.4229706
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4229706

>>4229698


>racist and ablist connotation

youre in over your head kid, i think its time to leave the internet.

>> No.4229708

>>4229705
>bran

Are you trying to help him poop?

>> No.4229709

>>4229706
RAPE

RAPE

RAPE

>> No.4229712

>>4229706
lol. in over my head against white males w/ superiority complexes who can't handle a woman criticizing their racism/ablism? don't think so.

>> No.4229713

>>4229712
a/s/l?

>> No.4229714

I'm starting to think nobody smart comes here.

>> No.4229715

>>4229714
That includes you too.

>> No.4229716

>>4229714
the fact that it took you more than 5 minutes to realise that makes you one of us :^)

>> No.4229717

>>4229706
>You're in over your head
>Keep away from our secret club called the internet! xD

>> No.4229718

>>4229714

Tao Lin and Pynchon post here.

>> No.4229719

>>4229714
That's the kind of thing pseudointellectuals say.

>> No.4229720

>>4229718
Tao Lin IS Pynchon.

>> No.4229721

>>4229712


i know this is a troll but it serves to illustrate a point (poes law and all), such that, given humor is a reaction tto stress, you cant be a true progressive and be funny at the same time.

>> No.4229722

>>4229712
oh, very well done, very well done. ole!

>> No.4229731

All these fucking guys with their western culture. If you had a fucking brain you would realize that any black writer is better than a prilieged white man.

>> No.4229736

>>4229731


ill show you western culture

*whips out dick*

>> No.4229742

>>4229736
Even jokes like these are constructs of the patriarchy. They the full extant of the doinant male sex driven society.

>> No.4229743

>>4229736
In our society, it's
>rape when a white guy does that
>cutting edge art when a non-white guy does it
>progressive when a woman does it

Something has gone wrong

>> No.4229744

Black writers writing about africa are so much better than privileged white males.

>> No.4229754
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4229754

socrates was black. no pussy ass white dude is that impertinent.

>> No.4229763
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4229763

>"4chan"

>> No.4229783

Oh look /autism/ and /pol/ are raiding /lit/ again.

>> No.4229787

>>4229783
Most of us are joking. I pretend to be both a /pol/tard and a check your privilege type feminist.

>> No.4229790

>>4229754
That bust is %100 nigga.

>> No.4229791

>>4229787
Oh good, there is still some hope. Well, what side to pic today...

>> No.4229795

>>4229783
/pol/ and /lit/ are boards with a lot of topic crossover, just like /int/. There is no raiding. /pol/ openly sagebombs raid proposals.

>> No.4229799

>>4229787
Given how unironically racist some feminists are (no, I'm not using the "only white people can be racist" argument), this isn't too much of a stretch, actually.

>> No.4229808

>>4229799
Yes, they can be just as bigoted as a /pol/ tard.

>> No.4230027

>>4229459
>Someone refers to the Greek greats as dead white males

Fuck you there were olive skinned Mediterraneans damn it.

>> No.4230134

Quality discussion.

>> No.4230165

>that feel when soundbytes have actually become arguments and a mode of reasoning

I don't know if someone saw the daily show good/bad segment.

I'm telling you all... it's because of the TV.

>> No.4230245
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4230245

>book about imperialism
>written in english

>> No.4230251
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4230251

>"We need more diversity in our literature"

>> No.4230254

>>4230251
This always seems to be code for "we need more shitty books about how racist white people are"

>> No.4230261

Leftist whites and jews are actively trying to destroy the white race.

>> No.4230279
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4230279

>>4230254
>mfw forced to read through dozens of stupid books about the natives on high school and college
And that's why I only picked up literature back two years ago.

>> No.4230291

>>4230279
>Look at me I'm willfully ignorant, I can't stomache to think the history of my people might not be glorious and we surely shouldn't learn from the mistakes of the past.

>> No.4230298

>>4230291
!!!CRITICAL VAGINA LEAK!!!
!!!CRITICAL VAGINA LEAK!!!
!!!SAND CLEANUP CREW TO THREAD 4229362!!!

>> No.4230302
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4230302

>>4230298
>Wow
>such trole
>ouche
>herts

>> No.4230309
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4230309

>>4230261

those pesky frankfurt schools!

>> No.4230318

>>4230291
>reading novels by politiziced idiots to learn about history
>enjoying shitty writing because of muh heestoree

>> No.4230322

>>4230318
You are reading politics into it, it's just another perspective, calm down autist.

>> No.4230335

>>4230322
Nah, those authors were always politiziced.
Or they were just shitty, given that the natives were always the sort of too-good-for-this-world bullshit characters all the ime.

>> No.4230359

>>4230335
Because they were alright people until they became strangers in the land of their forefathers, we did to them exactly what /pol/ is claiming the jews are planning to do to whites.

Don't they deserve to get a little of their broken dignity back?

>> No.4230395

>>4230359
>mexican natives
>insane bloodhounds

>sudamerican natives
>kek fuck nature

>northamerican natives
>rites of passage are outright luxury torture

>african natives
>cannibals and tyrants

toonbuler pls

>> No.4230415

>>4230395
>Whites
>supreme savages

Since we beat them to it we must have been even more violent, right?
I really don't see your point

>> No.4230437

>>4230415
Our culture was objectively superior.

>> No.4230463

>>4230437
Objectively more savage, I guess.

Is that really your best argument captain hindsight?

>> No.4230464

>>4229388
shit man she was so cute too bad she turned into a bloated oaf

>> No.4230475

>>4230437
This.

>>4230415
>occidental culture
>"You cannot conceive the many without the one"

>non-white culture
>OOOGA BOOGA BOOGA

>> No.4230491

>>4230475
You're just parading your ignorance as facts. The Chinese would have done just fine without the west.

>> No.4230501

>>4230491
Without the west they'd still be living with medieval technology.

>> No.4230518

>>4230501
But more civilized and ordered.

A fool with a tool is still a fool.

Or

A savage with a gun is still a savage.

>> No.4230637

>>4229690
We approach a text as just that anon.

>> No.4230638
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4230638

>>4230491

china is a despotic shitthole and always has been.

>> No.4230656

>>4230261
Oh, thank you for reminding of my task as a jew. You know I was just going to watch a movie now I will have to work on destroying white people.

>> No.4230799
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4230799

>>4230656
>tfw leftist white
>tfw filthy kikes leave all the hard work to you again whilst they watch woody allen movies and rub their hands

>> No.4230829

>>4230638
>not realizing that nobody except for the ancient Athenians really thought democracy a necessity
>not realizing that the only real reason why the Athenian thinkers asserted that only those under democracy were free was because they were indoctrinated to believe so

The man in china is subject to the same limitations on liberty that the man in America is. Liberty applies to nobody living in any functioning modern society. If you want your precious freedom, move to an anarchic Central African state and tell us how you like your liberty.

>> No.4230835

>>4230829
Jealous member of the inferior darker races detected.

Sorry your civilization was so shit compared to ours.

>> No.4230841

>>4230835
sorry, I wasn't aware that being a proponent of authoritarianism could be equated to being non-white.

Of course, you've got your democracy and your slow descent into decadence and irrelevance while a more authoritarian government would have kept Europe vital.

You had your choice, the plebeians chose mob rule over enlightened despotism, what a shame, really.

>> No.4230842
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4230842

>>4229613
It's wrong either way. If you think white people universally benefit from the oppression of blacks then you have a shitty class analysis.

>> No.4230851
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4230851

>>4230835
Here's the result of your precious democracy

>degenerate plebeian detected
>b-b-but muh mob rule!

>> No.4230855

>>4230799
Goddamn it I was actually planning on watching Sleeper. Conforming to stereotypes is fun.

>> No.4230859

>>4230841
>you had your choice to choose to have less of a choice

>> No.4230860
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4230860

>>4230835
And of course, here is the same culture, before descent into degeneracy and irrelevancy

>but muh nazis were ebillll :<<<<
>muh 6 gorrillion

Face it. The greatest European scientists and philosophers? Lived under monarchies (muh despotism!!!). The greatest European explorers? Likewise. The nations which colonized the new world? No democracy ever managed to do so, they'd be too preoccupied with their bread and circuses to do so.

The only thing which democracy has managed to produce is failure and inaction.

>> No.4230862

>>4230851
If you want me to reject democracy then it's either all or nothing.

I will accept authoritarianism if my leader, so to speak, gasses the kikes and strings up the shitskins.

Otherwise, at least democracy lets me vote myself into a state of materialistic comfort.

>> No.4230867
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4230867

>>4230855
Please please get these shekel cuff links.

>> No.4230868

>>4230851
The conditions though in the West are unsurpassed by the past.

>> No.4230870

>>4230491
But they needed Spanish silver to refinance their economy after the Ming paper money collapse.

>> No.4230871

>>4230867
Already have em.
shekels for life yo.

>> No.4230874

>>4230868
>Trading your national identity and pride for material possessions

You disgust me.

>> No.4230878

>>4230874
Implying national identity matter.
muh spooks. Although you are probably a troll.

>> No.4230880
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4230880

>>4230871

>> No.4230882

>>4230851
>chinks in charge of not pissing on the streets

kek

>> No.4230883

>classic book written by guy
>female who does introduction points out the fact that female is the strongest character

seriously, every single time.

>> No.4230885

>>4230874
>hey bobby what did you get for christmas?
>a playstation 4! what about you johnny?
>b-being american

>> No.4230888

>>4230851
>Implying people in non democratic societies don't act like this occasionally.
I would rather not be subjected to arbitrary searches by capricious governments.

>> No.4230898
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4230898

>>4229362
>implying my favorite author isn't still alive

>> No.4230904

>>4230882
>go to mall in Richmond, Vancouver
>chink mothers are getting their toddlers to shit and piss in the garbage cans
>all the other chinks treat it like it's normal

God, seriously, can we just kick these fucking barbarians out already...

>> No.4230910
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4230910

>"dead white guys"


What is this? Where does this come from? Why is it silly? Is it something someone says to try to make the works of historic white people seems unwarranted or something?

Can someone explain what this is all about it?

>> No.4230914

>>4230910
It comes down to shitskins being intellectually inferior, lazy pieces of trash who want an excuse to not have to read difficult literature.

Well, that's my take on it, anyway.

>> No.4230916

>>4230851
i wish stuff like that happened more often, it turns me on

>> No.4230918

>>4230914
>>/pol/

>> No.4230921

>>4230918
Do you my opinions threaten you, Abdul?

>> No.4230928

>>4230910
It started as a critique of how History, Literature etc was taught in American schools as a very dry, unengaging procession of old, dead white men.

It has since been adopted as a buzzword by some of the more intellectually lazy social justice types

>> No.4230951
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4230951

>nazis complain about people being retarded
>make some of the shittiest music ever, are excessively violent, and believe that nazi propaganda is a representation of average 3rd Reich life
Get over it. Nazi's got curbstomped. Israel is a thing. Nazi Germany fell.

>> No.4230955

>>4230918

>"it's ok to insult whites but not anyone else"
>tripfag

pathetic

>> No.4230962

>>4230955
No one said that
Infact, not one person has said anything bad about white people, while you fags are calling genocide out for anyone who isn't a nazi
We are just simply pointing out that everyone one has heard your same shitty argument

>> No.4231016
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4231016

>>4230910
Well, some people can't deal with the fact that, in most cases, white males have shaped human history, art, science and culture.

I bet if we removed every single page that indicates the gender of the writer even feminists would realize that most of the important books are written by white men, whereas the works of other feminists would look like empty covers filled with blank pages.

>> No.4231034

>>4229787

That just means you're too cowardly to voice your real opinion. And on an anonymous message board, that's pretty sad.

>> No.4231043

>>4230318

all art is propaganda

>> No.4231049

in hundred years its gon be

>dead males and females

>> No.4231052

>>4231016
>Well, some people can't deal with the fact that, in most cases, white males have shaped human history, art, science and culture.

This isn't true at all. You've guzzled some serious kool-aid if you actually believe it.

>> No.4231059

>>4231052
stop posting on your personal caucasian on the whiternet pls

can u understand what im saying
i'm speaking the lingua blanca
hello?

>> No.4231302

>>4229623
um, what fucking planet do you come from? texts aren't evaluated objectively, and you shouldn't try. that's why they're called opinions. you evaluate texts subjectively, from your own experience. yeah, sure, acknowledge aesthetic merit i suppose, but that aesthetic merit is often tied up in it's message, they aren't independent of one another, and aesthetics aren't all books have to offer.

>> No.4231425

HEY GUYS!

Here is a "dead white men" in real life in the wild! From an idiot confronting wonderful philosopher Roger Scruton, trying to marginalize his opinion by using the illustrious phrase. Observe!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOdMBDOj4ec#t=5116

>> No.4231719

>not dead white straight cis males
check that motherfucking privilege you dumbass