[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 58 KB, 445x628, 1341420478037.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4223124 No.4223124[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

What does it mean to be a good teacher, /lit/?

Any teachers here?

Any favourite books and authors when it comes to education?

>> No.4223155

>>4223124
School is for faggots lol amirite

>> No.4223497

a good teacher gives his students the answer for the exam

>> No.4223525

>>4223124

Imagine if those desks were to slide apart. He'd look quite foolish in front of his class.

>> No.4223550

I used to teach 12-14 year olds history. It was alright.

>> No.4223567

>>4223124
only the classics. thats all you should teach. then you will be like everyone else

>> No.4223572

Best teacher I ever had was an old retired professor that offered to teach me french for a few dollars and hour and used to have long one on one conversations with me about eastern religion and classical history. In a classroom setting though, the best teachers I've ever had where the ones that let me cut/sleep in class and read books from their personal library.

Schools 4 nerds

>> No.4223614

>>4223572
maybe highschool. you never took any college classes, did you?

>> No.4223620

>>4223614
No, I left highschool in grade 10 and haven't looked back. WHats university like? Is it worth the time?

>> No.4223625

>>4223620
Go to another forum and never come back.

>> No.4223658

>>4223124

I'm not a teacher but, a good teacher effectively spreads knowledge to the youth.

Effective as in, every time you walk in the classroom, everyone's waiting for you. Like, you give good lectures and shit, while not beingthe boring stereotypical teacher.

Also, that movie was probably the highlight of Ethan Hawke's career.

>> No.4223662

>>4223572
>tfw no respectable elder person to discuss stuff with

>> No.4223665

>>4223658
>not Before Sunrise

>> No.4223674

>>4223662
I'll duck you while we discuss Shakespeare.

>> No.4223910

>>4223625
You are coming off much more uneducated than he is.

>> No.4223938

I teach life drawing at a major arts university... i've a vague dream of getting a job teaching shakespeare or classics.
there is something incredible when any of my students stays behind after class, or in this case when they show appreciation for any improvement they make through me.

my best teachers were my literature teachers in college, they understood i didn't need the grade and let me skip classes, talked to me on an equal level about great writers and inspired me immensely. We had an understanding beyond the guys that attended each class and thoroughly studied every material just to check the boxes for the exams.

>> No.4223958

>>4223124
to be based teach you must ooze passion towards your field of expertise that you are teaching

you must have a deep knowledge and be able to answer all questions thrown at you

>> No.4223963

>>4223958
to reiterate

Have an incredibly deep base of knowledge regarding your teaching subject. Make you knowledge impressive and it will flow on to the students, they will want to be like you

only when you yourself fully and intimately know your subject can you convince others to strive towards the same end

>> No.4223987

The best teachers I've had were: English teachers, history teachers, and skiing teachers. And the guy from Khan Academy. The guy from Khan Academy (Sal) I think is just highly motivated. I don't know if he likes teaching or any of the subjects he teaches as much as the good done by it.
The rest have been passionate about what they teach and know a good deal about life too. Having broad life experience is pretty necessary for lit anyway.
The skiing teacher was just the product of loving teaching (he taught English to Vietnamese kids in the war and I think had some thing where teaching saved his life) and loving skiing. The dude skiied like a monk meditates. Every day without fail. He knew the mountain better than I'll know anything. He was still learning at 60something.
They also all knew how to have fun while doing it and cracked jokes and had a great sense of humour. I think humour like that comes from a combination of mastery and light-heartedness, which comes from confidence and being a learner yourself.
Maybe that's the lesson. Be a very experienced learner who likes teaching.

>> No.4223992

Also none of them were mainly disciplinarians. All of them had harsh limits, but they worked by contributing so much that you didn't want to do anything but listen. That's real authority. When people get so much from you they want to obey, or don't even think of it as obeying, because they aren't.

>> No.4224020

>>4223987
he sounds like a fantastic teacher, and I agree with all those points.

>> No.4224048

>>4223674
>I'll fuck you while we discuss Shakespeare.
Yes please

>> No.4224086

OP here, appreciating the stories so far, please go on.

But on top of that, I'm really interested in theory of education. Any book recommendations? Are you inclined towards one method/philosophy or other?

>> No.4224143

>>4224086

I'll be student teaching Social Studies next semester, I am enjoying this thread as well. If you're into the very poor state of History in American High Schools I recommend Lies My Teacher Told Me by James Loewen. It is a critique of the 18 most popular U.S. history textbooks. He spend half of the book going through events in U.S. history and pointing out misconceptions and flat out lies that are presented in these books. The second half of the book he discusses the selection process, why books are written this way and how it affects history education in the U.S. It was a very interesting read, especially parts where he shows two paragraphs side by side from different textbook publishers and authors that are exactly the same, word for word.

>> No.4224252

The educational system crushes the teacher from so many sides...

>> No.4224253
File: 338 KB, 709x1006, writers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4224253

>>4223124

I'm teaching English as a foreign language for pupils in secondary education, and have been certified for half a year now. I don't have a job at the moment, but I have completed four internships at different secondary schools during college. I like teaching, but I also think there is a relatively low percentage of teachers who actually both enjoy and excel at teaching from the get go. The rest, including myself, has to develop their teaching skills by years and years of experience before truly being able to call themselves good teachers. Another small percentage (although I fear this group is bigger than people think) never will.

My aim is to eventually get a job teaching student teachers, i.e. like I was myself up until half a year ago. I get fed up with teaching 14-year-olds grammar and skills that are already so natural to me, and not having any use for my knowledge of linguistics, syntax, literature, or history in my classes. I will need a master's degree before qualifying for that job though.

>> No.4224256

totto chan: the little girl at the window

>> No.4224444

>>4223124
>What does it mean to be a good teacher, /lit/?
Since this is /lit/, I'm assuming were focusing on English teachers? I think in order to be a "Good English Teacher," you must be effective in making your students better readers, writers, speakers, and listeners. Inspiration, passion, and the other unquantifiable things assist in or stem from being effective.
>Any teachers here?
I went to college to be a certified 7-12 English teacher, but got kicked out of the program with 8 weeks to graduation. I'm moving to teach English in China.

>Any favourite books and authors when it comes to education?
Kelly Gallagher's Readicide, Romano's Crafting Authentic Voice, and Atwell's In the Middle are all essential reading for an English teacher.

>> No.4224452

I'm an English/Education major, but given my crippling social anxiety and /pol/-like tendencies, I don't really know how I'll be capable of managing a classroom in any significant way.

>> No.4224455
File: 68 KB, 498x702, 1383058668342.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4224455

Good in what way?
I had a real scary and mean teacher that everybody disliked but everybody learned a lot.

Then I had nice teachers but they didn't really push people forward.

So nice or teachers that teach you or both?

>> No.4224456

>>4224452
It doesn't matter what your political tendencies are, because your students should never know them.

And maybe with social anxiety, you could hand more of the control of the classroom over to the students. Student centered classrooms are highly effective, and the teacher-as-lecturer/disciplinarian approach falls flat on its face.

>> No.4224468

>>4224456
I don't know if that would work in a high school environment, though I guess I have a lot to think about in that respect. I really want to assign them a lot of writing, give less emphasis to the core canon, and when we do enter fields like Shakespeare, at least give them some more unconventional approaches to the work so I won't be met with as much resistance for making them read such a "boring" work.

>> No.4224474

>>4224455
Jesus never said he was the son of God.

>> No.4224482

>>4224474
He hinted at it pretty strongly

>> No.4224489

>>4224468
It actually works far better in a High School environment. Read some of the works I outlined >>4224444 here. Look into reader response theory, whole language classrooms, and any approach that focuses on student centered learning.

Also, the greatest mistake most teachers make when teaching Shakespeare is teaching it as a book, instead of staging it as a play. Check out the Folger Library Shakespeare set free series. Its invaluable. The game changer is making students direct the play, thus enriching their understanding of the characters, and their potential different motivations.

>> No.4225080

>>4223497
This might be sarcasm, but it is true.

>> No.4225083

How many people here ended up teaching because they didn't know what else to do?

>> No.4225144

>>4223124
For me, this is what it means to be a good teacher:

1.) Passionate and knowledgeable on their subject
2.) Convey information with clarity and poignancy
3.) Allow for the students to participate. Oftentimes I have professors who just pontificate and pound their views into you for two hours. But the classes I enjoy most are the ones in which I can share my thoughts, whether right or wrong, and engage in critical dialogues with my fellow students and professors.
4.) Are not bitches, don't do cop outs, don't overload people with work, don't be overly difficult. A good level of challenge is great in any class; however, this challenge needs to match the standard of lecture, homework, etc. For instance, don't give an insanely hard test if you haven't lectured well, or if you've relied too much on the book. Using a textbook is natural, but over reliance without yourself analyzing and conveying the information in the textbook I think is the reason for much of the confusion that arises.
5.) Has a good sense of humor; interacts with the students on a personal level, not going over the line of teacher/student, still retaining your aura of respect, but still engaging the students so that they're comfortable and more eager to learn than if they were being taught by some aloof asshole who talked down to them.

That's what I think makes a good teacher and that's the guidelines I'd go by if I were to become a teacher.

>> No.4225147

>>4224474
Matthew 16:13-20 NIV:
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

>> No.4225162

>>4225144
>3.) Allow for the students to participate. Oftentimes I have professors who just pontificate and pound their views into you for two hours. But the classes I enjoy most are the ones in which I can share my thoughts, whether right or wrong, and engage in critical dialogues with my fellow students and professors.

This is so sorely lacking in ELA, and it is painful to see. Teaching =/= lecturing. Even the best lecturer cannot match what a student can learn, create, or achieve independently. Good teachers are guides, who assist students in overcoming hurdles, and honing their skills. The concept that a teacher can stand at the front of a classroom, speak for 40 minutes a day, and a year later students will have been imparted with the vital knoweledge for that year is dead wrong.

>> No.4225180

>>4225162
Oh, I wouldn't be so extreme about it. Some people are experts at rambling, and you really do take away quite a bit just by listening to them on a regular basis. What works mostly differs based on the teacher and the class.

>> No.4225189

>>4225180
I highly doubt your going to make anyone a better reader or writer by talking at them. You also need to remember that, and I'm basing this on you perusing /lit/, that you are the 1% of students who would manage to find something interesting in what the teacher was saying. The majority of the class would not.

>> No.4225228

best things one could possible have imo: empathy and patience

>> No.4225766

OP here. Great responses.

>>4224444
>Since this is /lit/, I'm assuming were focusing on English teachers?
Not really, that doesn't matter here. We could be talking about martial arts or a father teaching his son. I'd like to know about teaching itself. But your references were noted, thanks.

>>4224455
Perhaps both, I don't know. I had an experience like yours myself, but I think it has a lot to do with maturity, since much later I realized the intentions of some of my past teachers. Those who are considered assholes were actually doing their best and had problems of their own.

>>4225144
I dig it.

There was a thing I heard about Richard Feynman that stuck to my mind. Someone said he knew so much and so well that if you were a physicist, you'd feel dumb talking to him and eager to learn more. And that if you were a layman, he would explain things to you in such an easy way you'd feel quite smart. When I talk to students I usually do it like that. Not that I want them to feel dumber or smarter than they really are, but to be just on the right step on your tone to try and make it engaging.

>> No.4225807

>>4223963

Fucking this. During my sophomore year of highschool, I had to write a paper about Hemingway. I went to my school's writing center (which was a desk in the library where one of the English teachers would sit) and got some help from one of the teachers who taught upperclassmen. I still remember that meeting to this day. I had never met someone with such an obvious and deep passion for literature. Without even looking at the book, he gave me some good quotes to use, asked me what I thought of The Sun Also Rises, and recommended some short stories that I might like. That meeting was a turning point in my education. It didn't happen overnight, but I started to care about my classes, particularly English. I went from a 14 year old who could barely write a page long paper and hadn't read a book for pleasure for years to a honor roll student who placed out of two years of university English classes.

>> No.4225830

Best documentary I've seen about teaching is 'Children Full of Life', some BBC thing about a teacher in Japan that I forget how I came across.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tLB1lU-H0M
Good stuff.

>> No.4225843

The best teacher I had was an artist that teached not because he had to but because he loved teaching. He used his classes not as a hammer to nail content on his students but as he put it "make kids think by themselves"

>> No.4225845

>>4223620
It's worth the time, but not neccessarily the money.

I enjoy it, but it's not cheap, at least here in the U.S. If you're in Europe, you'd be a fool not to go.

>> No.4225848

>>4223987
I've had this experience before.
I had this math teacher in high school, and it was like he oozed, breathed, and lived mathematics.
It was only after taking his class that I actually enjoyed mathematics at all, as before it was just a course that I had to do well in.

>> No.4225859

>>4223124


http://educationrealist.wordpress.com/

>> No.4225862

>>4223124

OP, I have always thought that the best teachers are the ones who love the subject that they're teaching.

By being passionate about the subject, they have a natural interest in it, and will likely be able to answer most, if not all questions that one might pose to them.

It's sad that many educators are there because have to be, and that there aren't enough of them that actually enjoy the process of making students understand.
Also, how can you get your students to take an interest in academics when you yourself have no interest in it?

>> No.4227257

Bumping this.

>> No.4227278

Questions and class discussions do fucking nothing. Stop giving Bs to people who deserve As because they're nerdy shy retards, and giving As to fucking idiots who speak up every ten seconds. I know you're trying to train them for seminars and stuff, I know they need it, but for the people aiming at A+s, it sucks balancing intelligent commentary against the various feels of having to make an ass of oneself in front of a class full of people.

>> No.4228057

>>4227278
There is some true to what you are saying, because people do learn in different ways and express themselves in different ways. Still, I think it is pitiful for the quiet nerd to be mournful about his B, as if he is entitled to be silent, without any effort to break through and speak up. It is very important to learn to do that, a teacher must try to get to the bottom of why he doesn't say it, giving him the opportunity to do so.

>> No.4228098

Unlike the rest of you I'm an actual high school teacher with years of teaching behind me. You all sound ridiculous. Bleeding heart dreams of jumping on tables and reciting Shakespeare...lol!

Ask me any questions you feel you need to.

>> No.4228108

>>4228098
Why aren't you as good as Gosling?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Lo3P-Dp4Y

>> No.4228112
File: 119 KB, 500x394, young putin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4228112

>>4223124
A good teacher is a man who leads and inspires.

Almost none of the adults in American schools are teachers. They're more akin to pre school managers.

>> No.4228122

>>4228108
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Lo3P-Dp4Y

Because that's a movie and the kids would eat your face in that inner city school before you even started your spiel.

>> No.4228124

>>4228112
>man
Sexist pig.

>> No.4228125

>>4228112
Maybe where you lived. I've had plenty of great teachers in my American school.

>> No.4228129

>>4228124
Yes, I'm a sexist pig. Women are not capable of leading like men are. They can be used for basic function. That is all.

>>4228125
Or maybe your standard of great is extremely low. You're the generation that elected Obama, after all.

>> No.4228137

>>4228098
how often do you sexually fantasize about your students?

>> No.4228139

>>4228098
I have little experience, but I also feel very strange about the responses here.

But this is /lit/ in general. You ask "dogs or cats?" and suddenly everyone makes it sound as if they were vet doctors.

I work as an educator in a museum. It's not a formal type of education, we are granted with much freedom of approach and we are all not very much experienced. We receive schools (usually terrible ones, forgotten about the government in some strange and far neighborhoods) and take them in groups through the place, showing pictures and talking, that's our job. We don't have to show it all and we can speak of literally any subject brought up.

I've been told that I'm the type to go on my own route and speak what I feel I have to speak. Some of my colleagues prefer to let the students make their route, according to their interest and question them specifically on the things that they bring up in conversation. One of my more experienced colleagues went with a group of mine, taking notes. She was very kind but gave me a harsh report. The group would not listen to me, because I didn't address some things that were brought up (too many people speaking), so in the end I was left with 3 very interested fellows and 10 people taking pics at random through the exhibition, not within the conversation. My argument is that anyone interested was happy to listen to me, those not interested were happy that I didn't force them too. But I now think I'm getting it totally wrong.

cont...

>> No.4228143

>>4228139 cont

Sorry for the long intro, you may skip that if you like.

My questions are: what do you think that makes the difference between someone that is paying attention and someone not interested at all? How do we break through that issue? How can we ask them to join in? And should we? Do you feel it is disrespectul for them to be doing something else as you speak? How can one be bold enough for them to listen, while not repressing their own nature and interests?

>> No.4228159

>>4228108
Jesus, this is such a fantasy, I'm not sure I want to see the video till the end.

>> No.4228174

>>4228122
Not as romantic as Gosling, can't teach as well as Gosling. Step up. Watch Crazy Stupid Love for tips.

>> No.4228178

>>4223124
>What does it mean to be a good teacher, /lit/?
1 hour of face to face requires zero hours of preparation and marking.
Reducing your load to 3 hours of face to face per semester and one semester per year
Spending your time diddling your lover and publishing monographs, like a boss.

>> No.4228185

>>4228178
Great, I'll have time for my meth as well!

>> No.4228196

>>4223124
My grade 12 calc class was fucking hilarious

The teacher walked in the first day, wrote textbook work on the board, and promptly got the fuck out. It was like that for the first three weeks, before suddenly there was a test.

Fucking 3/4 of the class failed completely and they practically all dropped the course. After that, the teacher started actually teaching, and he could fucking teach (masters in mathematics, nearly 30 years teaching).

He told us that the first three weeks were just to weed out the undesirables and the ones too stupid to self study.

>> No.4228198

>>4228196
What a grandiose idiot.

>> No.4228202

>>4228196
what a horrible teacher.

>> No.4228213

Read Paulo Freire
Read John Dewey's child and the curriculum
Read Ira Shor
Read Gramsci

>> No.4228219

>>4228196
Gangster.

>> No.4228221

>>4228198
>>4228202
You children have no concept of life. Namby-pamby, "everyone is included", sterile, artificial echo chambers of liberal ideas are a miserable teaching environment.

>> No.4228233

>>4228221
That's not what it is about idiot. I bet some people left the class for the simple fact that he seems like an autistic faggot. Some of those people might have even done well. If the only way to weed out the "undesirables and the stupid ones" is to not show up for three weeks, he's not only on an ego-trip but clearly in the wrong profession as well.

>> No.4228240
File: 1.89 MB, 400x225, 1358556405499.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4228240

>>4228196
>teaching those who can self-study
>not teaching those who need a teacher

>> No.4228251

>>4228233
Are you implying that the skills to deal with an ego-tripper aren't more valuable than simple calculus?

Dealing with a pigheaded cunt teacher, and getting an A for doing so, was the greatest life experience I'd ever had. If he merely encouraged me, I'd have no motivation.

>> No.4228273

To be a good teacher is to teach someone something profound while making a positive difference in the process. I just wish my teachers would have sat down with me and really listened to me and what I had to say and constructed lesson plans that would have allowed me to express my creativity in its most raw state rather than just giving me bookwork.
I had an art teacher that gave the class written instructions on how to do an art project. It honestly defeated the whole purpose of art.

>> No.4228282
File: 148 KB, 600x800, 1374067_681436905200221_55292580_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4228282

>>4223124
As someone who studies philosophy of education, while thinkers like Freire, Dewey, hooks, Giroux, and all the liberal-like, honestly, I've found Plato the most relevant thinker on education as a whole or as a concept or as a ethical purpose, particularly works like Meno or Republic.

>> No.4228289

>>4228251
Damn that's an exciting life you're leading there, chap.

>> No.4228352

>>4228251
You sound like an upper class fat compulsive gamer wearing a cap turned backwards with little verve and big dreams.

>> No.4228362

>>4228352
WOW that describes me to a T. You sir are a fucking Nostradamus. Kudos to you +1 upvote

>> No.4228394

I teach HS English. My students won't do fuck all unless they get graded for it, and even then, the instant they realize they will need to work for a good mark brings a torrent of backpedalling and complaints.

>> No.4228770

>>4227278
>why can't I fly through class without ever challenging myself or anyone or even bothering to defend my opinions (if I'm able to form them on my own) in an open debate?
>Life is so unfair

If you don't do anything beyond whats asked of you, you deserve a B.
>tfw one of those fucking idiots who always got A's and was always the teachers favorite despite constantly cutting class or handing in work late because I was the only student who ever actually tried to discuss things with the teacher or brought different opinions to the classroom

>> No.4228790

>>4228202
>>4228198
Why so butthurt? He sounds like a pimp.

>>4228233
>wrong profession
Speaking as someone who actually likes math, most high school math classes are essentially taken up by the teacher explaining simple concepts that will never be used outside of the class to mouthbreathers. By sorting out people who actually are interested in math/want to take the class and those who don't, he saves everyone a lot of work. If someone can't even be bothered to read the textbook on their own, there's no reason for them to bother learning calculus

>> No.4228788

>>4228362
Instead of responding sarcastically and increasing hostility, why not just refute his point instead of encouraging him to think that way?

>> No.4228804

>>4228233
The problem is teaching to the "undesirables and stupid ones" is his job.
The desirable and smart don't need him.

>> No.4228824

>>4228804
>why modern education is terrible

Why should he waste time teaching a course on a specialized form of logic to people who don't care enough about it to to even bother reading the textbook and will never even use it outside of his class?

Imagine if a school had a class on shakespeare and dozens of students who didn't even know who shakespeare was signed up for it because they felt obligated to for some stupid reason. The teacher tells the kids to read Romeo and Julliet, assignes a few pages every day, then fucks off. At the end of the month, he has a test on it and 3/4 of the class had not even bothered to read it and failed. Is it really the teachers responsibility to baby these students through a class they aren't interested in so they can memorize a few lines of poetry they'll soon forget? Change Shakespeare to Newton and that's basically your average calculus class

>> No.4228829

>>4228824
>Why should he waste time teaching a course on a specialized form of logic to people who don't care enough about it to to even bother reading the textbook and will never even use it outside of his class?
You're not making any sense, it was a twelfth grade class, not some obscure college option.

Unless it was some sort of elite high school, he is supposed to introduce as many students as possible to the topic of the class.
He fails utterly at this job.

>> No.4228831

>>4228824
>everyone should be the elite
Actually you're the reason why academia suck in general.

Mediocrity is by definition the mark of the majority. There is room for it. The refusal to acknowledge the relevance of mediocrity and asking for everyone to be in some form of "elite" or another is the biggest source of alienation in our modern world.

It has formed generations of arrogant sociopaths.

>> No.4228845

>>4228824
>baaaaw why can't everyone be a priviledged white kid with a strong cultural capital and impeccable work ethics right off the bat
There are plenty of late bloomers.

By stepping on those who are behind as soon as high school, you're only enforcing social reproduction.

Hell why even bother with the top third of the class? Make a competition on the first week of class, kick out everyone but one lucky highschooler. The brightest pupil in the class will now have the teacher all for himself as a private tutor, how fantastic! And all that with the funds that were supposed to pay for the education of 30-40 students.

>> No.4228855

>>4228831
This is such a load of horseshit. There is next to NO pressure to be elite for the majority of people.

>> No.4228858

>>4228855
That's what everyone believes about other people.

>> No.4228864

>>4228858
Meaning I'm correct? Or did you falsely assume that I feel pressure to be elite? Because I don't. Never have.

>> No.4228866

>>4228855
Glad to see some people are drinking the dominant ideology like it's milk.

The injunction to be the special snowflake is absolutely everywhere. The genius of it is that it manages to make you think it's only there for you, and not the other people.

Be it children books, typical first year academia motivational speech (hurp durp ure the elite), or more importantly job interviews.
"The mass" is, incredibly enough, always the others.

Capitalism successfully replaced the image of the worker creating things in collaboration with other workers with the bourgeois icon of the solitary creator (artist/architect/thinker/engineer/etc.)

>> No.4228868

>>4228866
I can tell you're full of shit because you can't provide concrete examples, just run of the mill generalizations.

>> No.4228872

>>4228866
Regardless of which one is more desirable, the capitalist image is more beautiful and uplifting to the human spirit.

>> No.4228873

>>4228868
Concrete example about what? You never did job interviews. It's never about hiring "someone" good enough for the job. No, somehow the illusion has to be created that the winning candidate is the rare jewel.

>> No.4228874

>>4228872
>Sociopathy is uplifting.
Sure thang.
But the goal is of course to tame class struggle by destroying the value of cooperation in the eyes of the people.

Which, reading your post, seems to work wonder. Apparently cooperation is "vulgar" now.

>> No.4228879

>>4228873
I never did job interviews? Is that what you need to pretend is true in order for your argument to remain consistent?

Here's a constructive question: what about job interviews makes you think that the "winning candidate" is made to feel like a "rare jewel"?

>> No.4228880

>>4228879
>I never did job interviews? Is that what you need to pretend is true in order for your argument to remain consistent?
No I meant to put a question mark at the end of the sentence.

>> No.4228882

>>4228879
He's not made to feel so, he has to pretend it himself.

>> No.4228884

>>4228874
It's better for people to subsume themselves into the worker ant morass in order to work for some elitist faggot's ideal?

The capitalist conception is hope and grandeur. Your conception is subjugation and subservience.

I can't take left-wing thinkers seriously when they spout on about the enslavement of the working class. You hypocrites are so funny it makes me cry.

>> No.4228885

>>4228884
>It's better for people to subsume themselves into the worker ant morass in order to work for some elitist faggot's ideal?
How could you possibly think it's what I wrote?

No, it's better to collaborate to make things together.
You know, like
oh
can you imagine
oh I don't know

SYNDICALIM

>> No.4228887

>>4228885
If you're the alternative to the bourgeoisie then give me landlords or give me death.

>> No.4228888

>>4228887
>libertard with his head so far up his ass he can't realize what the dominant discourse around him is and resort to simple insults
Color me not surprised.

>> No.4228889

>>4228882
So you are happy to prescribe everybody with this generalization about how they lie to themselves, simultaneously dehumanizing them so that they fit into your ideology? Got it.

>> No.4228892

>>4228864
But let me guess, you decided to be one on your own, amirite?

>> No.4228893

>>4228888
Here's an idea: maybe some people truly subscribe with the "dominant discourse," and maybe it became dominant because it was superior to the other options.

But no, you're the type of fool who would rather repeat history over and over again because of your own insecurities.

>> No.4228895

>>4228889
>somehow describing what happens in job interview is dehumanizing people who submit to it
Baby can't make the difference between action and subjects? That's cute.

>> No.4228896

>>4228892
Is that what you need me to say? Seems like this theory rests on assumption after assumption. No facts.

>> No.4228898

>>4228893
>DON'T THINK
>PLEASE DON'T THINK
>THINGS ARE THE BEST THEY COULD POSSIBLY EVER BE
The violence of your knee-jerk reaction to questioning the current state of affair is exemplary.

>> No.4228899
File: 111 KB, 500x376, you.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4228899

>>4228896
You think you're not transparent as hell?

>> No.4228901

>>4228895
To assume the behavior and motivation of all people across the board is dehumanizing, yes.

>> No.4228905

>>4228899
I'm not sure where I indicated that I think I'm better than anybody. You seem to have a knack for making generalizations based off of things that aren't there.

>> No.4228906

>>4228898
>DON'T THINK
>PLEASE DON'T THINK
>THINGS MUST BE CHANGED FOR THE SAKE OF MY EGO

Why not just join a commune if you'd truly like to live the way you claim to want to live? Why do you feel obligated to force the same on everyone else? Do you have some kind of "great man" messiah complex? That would be pretty ironic, huh?

Of course, cooperative life in a commune is back-breakingly, grindingly hard. A man needs true conviction to choose to live that way. In your case, I suppose your morality is dictating a style of life that you are unable to find acceptable unless everyone is sharing in your misery.

>> No.4228912

>>4228906
>you do a sociological observation
>must mean you want to live in a commune
Jesus Christ, you're all over the place.

No, the problem I mention has very concrete negative effects across all academic activities.
Why, see http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21588069-scientific-research-has-changed-world-now-it-needs-change-itself-how-science-goes-wrong
Most scientific discoveries never get checked or repeated. And why is that so? Because research now follows that system of "hurp durp everyone must be the elite". It all relies on grant writing, and every grant must present an absolutely groundbreaking and unique project.

Nobody is getting a grant for "oh you know we're just gonna check experiments other people already published", which is a perfect example of a mediocre but necessary job.
Instead we get thousands of mediocre scientists all trying to break through, and of course most of them accomplishing nothing, while they could be doing a mediocre, but good, job.

>> No.4228916

>>4228912
>Most scientific discoveries never get checked or repeated. And why is that so? Because research now follows that system of "hurp durp everyone must be the elite"

You do not know how to think.

>> No.4228919

>>4228916
>that rhetoric

>> No.4228925

>>4228912

>Jesus Christ, you're all over the place.

He's just tossing around lofty absolutist bullshit because he's a naive little prat that's convinced he has the world all figured out.

Don't take it to heart.
He's practically a /lit/ staple.

>> No.4228939

>>4228919
You cannot seriously draw the conclusion you drew based on that editorial. It shows a lack of critical thought and confirmation bias. There are tons of other variables, nevermind the fact that the statement "most scientific discoveries never get checked or repeated" is objectively false.

>> No.4228942

>>4228912
>One reason is the competitiveness of science. In the 1950s, when modern academic research took shape after its successes in the second world war, it was still a rarefied pastime. The entire club of scientists numbered a few hundred thousand. As their ranks have swelled, to 6m-7m active researchers on the latest reckoning, scientists have lost their taste for self-policing and quality control.

That article is literally saying that science was better when it was a privilege of the elites, and that opening it up to the plebs and the working class has made it worse.

How does this square with the ideology of someone who would write something like this:

>But the goal is of course to tame class struggle by destroying the value of cooperation in the eyes of the people.

You're concerned about "class struggle" but you want the working class plebs put back in their place?

>> No.4228951

>>4228939

>and confirmation bias

Read your previous posts back to yourself and ask yourself if you're honestly free from the same leanings.

You're both idiots who are only shitposting because you're bored. Just like me. Who fucking cares.

>> No.4228964

>>4228939
>You cannot seriously draw the conclusion you drew based on that editorial. It shows a lack of critical thought and confirmation bias.
What sort of sentence is that? So you're gonna take everything I say and reply "NOOOOPE, you need twenty different sources and a full essay"

>nevermind the fact that the statement "most scientific discoveries never get checked or repeated" is objectively false.
Oh I see you don't hold yourself up to the same standards of evidence you apply to others.

>>4228942
>all those semantic leaps
>somehow less scientists means they should all be upper class
>somehow more scientists creating issues means the only way to solve them would be to go back and reduce the amount of scientists
>somehow me posting an article means I agree with every single line of it

>> No.4229023

>>4224455
>Implying Jesus had a beard when he was twelve

>> No.4229088

>>4223525
I don't know why, but I laughed at the way you phrased this.

>> No.4229097

My best teacher was an established artist and professor that taught me to drink. He even hooked me up with my first gf. Ever since I have been a depraved world wandering alcoholic. I am also a teacher.

>> No.4229319

Could we have more actual teacher stories rather than students being pissed/admiring past teachers?

>> No.4229574

Its kind of sad how Russia and China are going to eat us alive in STEM, because we are too worried about dropping the bar low enough so every idiot can trip over it

>> No.4229591

>>4223124
>What does it mean to be a good teacher, /lit/?

All books I had on 'how to become a teacher' all said the same thing: 'We can't tell you how to be a teacher, you either are or you aren't, we can, however, tell a teacher how to become a better teacher.'

Also speak to students in a way they can relate to the material you're supposed to teach.

Got alot of students playing football/soccer, ? Yse examples from that subject.

>> No.4229636

>>4225147
>streetgang edition:

>13: Jésus popped up in a bar called Cézar's Phillipines and asked his gang: 'Who da man, yo?'

>14: They be all like: "Some say Tyrone, others say E-money and some even say Jay-Z or one of the other Rappers"

>15 "And you niggas? he asked. "What you think about this punkass nigga standing in front of you?"

>16 Shiv-Pete said: "You da real nigga from da hood, pimp of pimps."

>17 Jésus replied: "Damn straight, Shiv', son of Ol' Joe, but you don't hear that from no word on the street, it was the blood on the street that told you that.

>18 An' lemme just say to you, Shiv', on this here corner Imma build my crib and no Po-lice ever gonna crash ma crib.

>19 Imma let you in on this here secret; What you do in the street, people gonna know long after you gone, people will remember what you done.

>20 Then he told his gang not to snitch on him being the pimp of pimps.

>> No.4229643

>>4229574

Who cares? Scientific geniuses will make it on their own. If they have more average engineers, bully for them.

>> No.4229649

>>4229636
Oh shit, I remember there was actually a cockney version on the Bible they showed on WILTY.

>> No.4229726

>>4228282
>As someone who studies philosophy of education

I´m very much into it too. Who do you read besides Plato, both classics and 20th century authors? Allan Bloom? Mortimer Adler?

Are there some unknown thinkers of education you would recommend?

>> No.4229854

>>4228282
But - will it blend?

>> No.4229884

>>4228282
>>4229726
Seconding the request for more authors on the subject. My friend is really into philosophy of education and I'd love to give her a big ol' fucking list of authors to check out.

>> No.4229928

I remain skeptic that you can learn to be a good teacher. I think it depends so much on your personality and you can't learn something like that. You may try to adapt but it'll never be really, really great.

In a perfect world being knowledgeable would mean being a good teacher, but we have to face the fact that teaching is about holding people's attention and being able to inspire and motivate. It's about entertaining, really, while getting important points across. It's a strange balance.

I've done a moderate amount of teaching and I agree that they have to feel your passion for the subject because it will rub off on them. If you seem indifferent, they will become indifferent. It's a pretty cool job I think, but were I to spend my life teaching it would have to be uni level and not children/high school. I'm doing my Master's currently and many of my fellow students want to be teachers.

>> No.4230137

>>4223124
I actually just wrote an essay on this.

at least for high school

Novelty is most important. having a boring english class on reading romeo and juliet in monotone without seeing how it connects to real life ideas, whilst being droned about in a blank white room with posters about commas and grammar rules is sterile, and stifling and boring

sure kids should WANT to learn but why make it less exciting.

apparently being a teacher is like being a performer. doing the same act back to back

>> No.4230763

Packet-teaching, uncompromising teacher is best teacher.

>> No.4231516

>>4228831
>>4228831
>everyone should be the elite
Not at all, but, but is it really too much to ask that people taking an optional specialized class be interested in the class enough to do the reading he assigned. The teacher gave them a month to prepare as well as all the material they needed. Its not about competition, its about not having to waste his time with people who don't care about the subject and will never use what they've learned outside of the class.

>>baaaaw why can't everyone be a priviledged white kid with a strong cultural capital and impeccable work ethics right off the bat
>I'm a racist

>By stepping on those who are behind as soon as high school, you're only enforcing social reproduction.
He's not stepping on anyone, he gave them the reading they needed, gave them a test on that reading, and people who hadn't even bothered to read the material failed the test and dropped out. I don't see how this makes the teacher hitler.

I can appreciate >>4228829's point that he should introduce the topi to the class and make them interested in it, but I doubt that a highschool calculus class is really the best way to make anyone love math.

>> No.4231535

>>4225083
Dear god this is me

>> No.4231536

>>4223124
One thing I hate that a lot of teachers do is ironically distance themselves from what they're teaching. Like, they'll read a passage from Leviathan and say something like "Whatever that means! heheh." I get that they're trying to relate to frustrated students, but I feel like they'd do better to lead by example and power through frustrating texts rather than give students a "even the teacher doesn't get it" rationalization.

>> No.4231543

>>4231536
I would have dropped the class that afternoon if one of my teachers did something like that

>> No.4231667

Not to give an answer but to lead to it.

>> No.4231683

>>4231516
>He's not stepping on anyone
He is. Plenty of people only reveal themselves in college, once the brutalizing boredom of high school is over.
With his shitty methods, he enforces that never happens. Success in high school is highly linked to your social background, there's nothing racist about that you cunt.

>anno domini MMXIII
>negating the effect of social reproduction in high school

Go back to the library, you have some Bourdieu to read.

>> No.4231688

>>4231516
>I doubt that a highschool calculus class is really the best way to make anyone love math.
It's high school. Maybe it's not about awakening love for math, but also transmit enough tools to people who don't like it but who will still need it in some not math-intensive field like biology or whatnot.

>> No.4231718

I don't like teachers who have passion in teaching rather than in their specific field.

My high school marxist (who made it very clear how big of a blunder that school is though) history teacher who thought that psychoanalysis was a fine way of explaining 20th century international relationships was cool.

>> No.4234183

>>4231683
>He is. Plenty of people only reveal themselves in college, once the brutalizing boredom of high school is over.
What does that have to do with anything in this discussion?

>With his shitty methods, he enforces that never happens
What never happens? All he's doing is weeding out people who wouldn't fit well in his class.

>Success in high school is highly linked to your social background, there's nothing racist about that you cunt.
Social background is largely economic and where I live the upper economic class is generally dominated by Indians and Asians. Maybe you should check your privilage you racist peice of shit

>>4231688
Calculus isn't needed in most non math intensive fields. Its not even needed in many math intenesive fields. Knowing calculus is no more a tool for the average person than being able to quote shakespeare from heart. Yet I cant imagine someone being mad at a teacher for not wanting to teach shakespeare to kids who couldn't care less about the subject.

>> No.4234246

A good teacher is one that teaches you how to think, not what to think.

>> No.4234437

>There are people here who think social status in high school is at all hard to achieve

Jesus christ you fags are dumb. I was on the chess team and in the jazz band and my best friend was the head cheerleader. Ya'll just mad.

>> No.4235611

>>4229574

>russia and china oh noes
>implying I don't want the US to fail.

>> No.4235632

I once had a US History teacher in high school who blew everyone’s minds on a consistent basis.

This guy knew what the fuck he was talking about, was intensely passionate, and purposely made the class insanely hard.

He would always ask the most interesting questions and kept everyone on their toes questioning everything.

He didn't use a textbook really ever, he just used historical sources (Only Yesterday, for the 20's, Crucial Decade, for the 50s, ect.)

>at the end of class we actually made tshirts that said something like "we took his class and lived" or something like that.

Best most inspiring teacher ever.

>> No.4235673

The best teacher I had in high school was practically the embodiment of /lit/. Imagine if you crossed some kind of sage with Lewis Black and you've got him. Any time a kid would ask to do Palahniuk or BEE he'd yell at them and tell them that neither author could write their way out of a paper bag. He was also an alcoholic.

I learned so much from that man. None of which was in his curriculum. He'd basically just talk about whatever was on his mind every day and then we'd have some kind of essay to write on a novel, and he'd give us an arbitrary grade for the quarter based on how much he liked us.

>> No.4235676

I used to have an old teacher with grey hair only and nothing on his face save his white moustache. He always kept his nose high and was a bloody encyclopedia. He knew the answer to whatever question one posed; he had a great philosophical and historical background. I used to ask him about fornication and prostitution and such things to force something unnatural out of him, but I always failed. He had great white hair too; very shiny and smooth. He's probably dead now.

>> No.4235710

I always got the shittiest english teachers imaginable.

Sophomore year I got this english teacher who was the coach of the school basketball team but he "needed some extra money" so he decided to teach a couple english classes. He literally just took premade assignments, gave them to us, and did nothing for an entire year. His favourite kids in the class were the dumbasses who talked with him about college basketball, he ignored everyone else. I can't remember a single other thing about the entire year honestly. I think we might have read A Separate Peace, and the teacher kept making jokes about how they are gay or something?

Next year, the english teacher is the volleyball coach practically phoning in the english class for extra cash. The first thought that ran though my head was KILL ME NOW! Volleyball coach who doesn't give two fucks about English trying to teach Shakespeare.

Can you tell I went to an American school? Does it show?

>> No.4235722
File: 82 KB, 720x540, wallpaper.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4235722

none of the teachers or profs i've had seemed to knew much of anything about anything except maybe my stats and calc professors
why are stupid people allowed to become teachers? the world will never know

>> No.4235740

>>4235710
Shit made me cringe. Made me feel really blessed, too.

I was educated in a public school in midwest USA, but even I had some really knock-out teachers of English and literature. One teacher I recall was legitimately enthusiastic about whatever we were studying. Whereas most teachers would make "Macbeth" a terrible slog, her appreciation was truly infectious--so much so that some of us even memorized lines from Macbeth without being asked to do so.

Everything she touched was fascinating and alive.

>> No.4235744

>>4224456
>It doesn't matter what your political tendencies are, because your students should never know them.
this. the worst teacher i ever had was my 9th grade history teacher who would constantly sidetrack lectures so he could ridicule evolution and try to shoehorn in his intelligent design theories. luckily he was only at the school for 2 years

>> No.4235748

i've got this one science teacher right now who's a real sweet guy my girlfriend had him last year on his first year of teaching and he's her favorite too i'm pretty sure, he's just a real cutie he's like 25 and a really funny guy and nice

>> No.4235751

>>4235744
>my 9th grade history teacher who would constantly sidetrack lectures so he could ridicule evolution

The fuck?

>> No.4235754

>>4235748
MMF threesome?

>> No.4235766

>>4235751
he was an unbelievable asshole
he has a blog, too
http://wolfeocracy.com/

>> No.4235780

>>4235766
>I’d tweet something more about all of the scandals coming out of the White House, but I’m afraid I’d run out of my allotted characters with all of the hashtags alone: #Benghazi, #DOJ, #IRS, #foxnewsreportersitargeted, #marineumbrella, #pigford, #fastandfurious, #teapartyaudits.

I feel like I ought to do something to this guy.

>> No.4235893

>>4235766

Wow, look at this asshole.

>open borders, and along with that the millions of uneducated, possibly unhealthy and definitely low- or non-skilled Third-World immigrants flooding in.

DEM DAMN THIRD WORLD SCUM, US MASTER RACE!

>a high minimum wage (but along with that necessarily comes higher unemployment, since small business owners won’t be able to afford to hire and pay as many people)?

I never have understood this argument, because can't you turn it around and say that since the public as a whole has more money to spend, and thus the small business will get more business and be able to afford it?

>a de-emphasis of religion and the accompanying morality lessons and an increase in secularism and moral relativism (i.e.: if it feels good to you and doesn’t hurt anyone else, go ahead a do it!)?

I don't see what he sees wrong in this honestly lol.

>> No.4235955

>>4223625
>yfw you chased away John Bender

>> No.4235960

>>4235748
zeta confirmed for 14 and gay

>> No.4235978

>>4223124
As far as author recommendations go, I think Joseph Campbell is great for high schoolers. He can help students appreciate the importance of literature in all forms, from the classics to pop culture. He can help get students interested in something they normally aren't. I remember reading his views on mythology and becoming deeply appreciative of the themes they present.

>> No.4236069

There was one english teacher I really liked in high school but he was let go a couple years after he started. He was teaching the general english classes and I was put in one of them after failing an honors english class (surprise surprise the teacher was a shit). In class he'd have all the students write in journals with a question of the day and if we were reading books we'd also watch film adaptations or read it out together like we were performing. I was pretty quiet/nonparticipating most of the time but he knew about what happened and that I was already a bit ahead of everyone else. When our journals were returned from grading at the end of the semester he wrote on the last page that he really liked reading it and that english was something that I should keep going with.

It kind of sucked he was canned though, apparently he failed a required test for teachers too many times. And I heard he got in trouble at a school dance for getting too close to some female students. So I guess he was kind of an idiot despite trying to get students to participate and helping out a lot at the school.

And there was another good english teacher that pretty much did the same stuff for the students actually interested in reading. He was a big Walden and Shakespeare buff and had us make film versions of plays or act in class. The only thing that sucked was that he used to be the head of the english department but had a beef with a previous principal regarding student freedom of speech/writing that resulted in him being demoted, which he definitely didn't deserve.