Does /lit/ hate A Song of Ice and Fire? Do you think it is overrated? Please share your thoughts on the series. And sorry if this has been discused to death, I'm kinda new here.

File: 84 KB, 200x219, A_Game_of_Thrones_Novel_Covers.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 02:30:02 2013 No.4148818 [DELETED]

Does /lit/ hate A Song of Ice and Fire? Do you think it is overrated?
Please share your thoughts on the series. And sorry if this has been discused to death, I'm kinda new here.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 02:32:02 2013 No.4148826 /lit/ usually doesn't care for commercial literature

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 02:39:02 2013 No.4148840

>>4148818
I read a lot of fantasy. I have not read this series yet but a lot of my friends have and they love it. He is yet another author who claims inspiration from J.R.R. Tolkien. That comes with it's own baggage, sure, but it's not a bad thing, necessarily.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 02:43:03 2013 No.4148850 It was a common fantady rec before the television series started. Take that as you will.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 02:43:03 2013 No.4148847 >>4148818 it's very very long

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 02:44:03 2013 No.4148852

>>4148818
I never really come to /lit/... A Song of Ice and Fire is poorly written, but has a way of drawing you in. You want to love the characters you hate. It makes you believe the people are real.

Personally, I'm a huge fan... but will always admit it's not written very well.

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 02:44:03 2013 No.4148853

>>4148818
I tried to read it, I really did, but I just couldn't into R.R. Martin's style. Spelling random words differently ("sir" to "ser" for one example), the brief vignettes from various points of view, the overrich yet underwhelming use of descriptors - all these caused me to grow bored very quickly. I found it gimmicky and sub-par. He sounds to me like a very imaginative middle- or high-schooler.

That being said, I think he's written one of the more astounding fantasy series ever. Considering its breadth of character development and the political complexity he has painstakingly put into the work, I would call him a genius, at least one some levels. He may lack a true artist's touch (in the way of Tolkein or whatever), but the realism and humanity he imbues into the novels is breathtaking.

In the end I'm glad HBO came along and adapted it for the screen. His writing lends itself very, very well to a cinematic experience, probably because it's written in such short chapters and lacks any real depth (considered chapter by chapter, that is); when I was reading it I felt like I was looking at a storyboard, or simply watching a movie. But still, I think he did a great job with creating such a huge universe and inhabiting it with such very really characters. I just wish he could write better.

By the way, I only read the first 200 pages of the first book, so I very we'll could be wrong in my estimation. But seriously, unless his writing improves vastly in the later books I can't see myself ever returning to them. I'd rather wait for HBO to show me what happens.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 02:49:03 2013 No.4148864 >>4148853 I think you summed it up perfectly. I've read all the books and consider myself a fan >>4148852

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 02:50:03 2013 No.4148866

>>4148818

This is funny. As a longtime lurker of /lit/, I've noticed something - ASOIAF used to be held to be god-tier modern fantasy by this board, but I never read it, because I was always busy reading other things. But then it gets turned into a TV show and everyone hates it. Not surprised...

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 02:50:03 2013 No.4148867 I read it, I liked it, I'm on the last chapter of Dance With Dragons. Better than the tv series, that's for sure.

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 02:53:03 2013 No.4148872

>>4148818
It's certainly not G.O.A.T but it's a really good series. The POV styled chapters were well done, and almost all of the characters they covered were at least sort of interesting.
Unfortunately it also can be kind of distracting, and the books can wander from one point to another and leave the reader perplexed. It can honestly be said that some of the key characters in the book like Araya and Tyrion Lannister should have their own books, since so much revolves around them and they're interesting enough to carry an entire novel.

Snow's story can get boring or just downright silly at times, and there were some points where I was left in the dark such as The murder and resurrection of Caitlyn Tully and the situation with Darkstar.

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 02:54:03 2013 No.4148875

>>4148853
I am the same

I just can't get passed the writing style

the sole reason I love books is the depth you can dig with words. The deepest emotions, for instance, GRRM seems to write about are described in one or two sentences usually, with an cliched metaphor thrown in there.

He's writing for plot and characters, I think, but I just don't read (primarily) for that.

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 03:26:22 2013 No.4148913

Very forgettable writing but awesome everything else is probably the simplest way to put it. Then again you don't read ASOIAF for the writing. Thousands of pages of less-than-impressive prose is going to be frustrating, but there is so much else to keeps you immersed.
Overall I think it's fantastic. Not merely fun entertainment but something genuinely amazing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 03:39:22 2013 No.4148932 >>4148853 Pretty sure 'ser' was an actual way of spelling it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 03:45:22 2013 No.4148937 >>4148932 it is the GEORGian spelling, kekeke. http://translate.google.com/#en/ka/sir

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 03:47:21 2013 No.4148939 >>4148937 Well I'll be... Martin confirmed for GOAT.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 04:04:26 2013 No.4148962 >>4148866 >ASOIAF used to be held to be god-tier modern fantasy by this board Dat historical revisionism! The gall!

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 04:05:26 2013 No.4148963 >>4148818 >Do you think it is overrated? It's a plotless trainwreck, and at this point GRRM is writing only for money. Yes, it's overrated.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 04:15:25 2013 No.4148983 >>4148963 Plotless is about the last thing the series can be called.

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 04:25:26 2013 No.4148998

>>4148932
Looking at various etymologies, I don't think so. Apparently "sir" in English is derived from French "sire", which in turn came from the Latin "senior", in turn a derivation of "senex", meaning "elder". So it looks like e's all the way down, this especially considering that in Latin e and i had very distinct and consistent pronunciations (compare modern Spanish "señor" and "siesta" - similar yet different pronunciations. English is just a clusterfuck of phonemes).

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sir

Anyway, unless some uneducated pleb misspelled "sir" you probably would see it as it has been spelled since ye olde days of lore.

In reference to my original post, however, I pointed out such an example because I find it to be gimmicky. There's really no reason for him to change the spelling, especially since the same pronunciation is maintained (unless that was his point, in which case I find it to be just silly). I remember reading the book and wondering if Ser was a family name or something. It took me a while to realize that it was just an intentional misspelling of Sir. It shouldn't take so long for the reader to figure out something so simple and so unimportant; I felt tricked by R.R. Martin for it.

tl;dr It's a silly and arbitrary gimmick on the part of the author. It does nothing to advance plot or develop characters, and I found it unnecessarily confusing. But then, I am an idiot, so there's that too.

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 04:37:14 2013 No.4149023
File: 103 KB, 400x285, 1373079801600.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4148866

I think people just got bored of talking about it all the time. After the last book came out the constant GRRM discussion threads died out. There wasn't much left to discuss and I guess GRRM didn't write anything else worth talking about. In regards to OP, I read the first book and half of the second some years before if discovered 4chan and was thoroughly unimpressed. I'd have to say it is the most overrated "franchise" i have ever read. I mean there are plenty of shit fantasy series eg Sword of Truth but they aren't lauded to the same degree (thankfully) I'm not trying to troll or anything but ASOIAF just seemed like King Arthur with sex and violence shoehorned in along with lol edgy surprise twists. The world was bland and boring, generic as fuck. I couldn't believe the attention it got on /lit/ I mean not to be an ad hominem or anything, but if you go on reddit bookshelves nearly every shelf has ASOIAF along with eragorn and harry potter.

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 04:39:13 2013 No.4149027

>>4148983
>Plotless is about the last thing the series can be called.
At this point, 'Game of Thrones' is longer than Tolstoy's complete oeuvre, and the series is still only halfway finished.

You're a deluded fanboy if you seriously believe that this series will be finished before George dies.

Yes, it's plotless.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 04:47:13 2013 No.4149041 >>4149023 >ut ASOIAF just seemed like King Arthur with sex and violence shoehorned in along with lol edgy surprise twists. This is the worst, most typical stock 'critique' for these books that I see on /lit/. To me it's meaningless.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 04:52:14 2013 No.4149049 File: 42 KB, 398x342, 1365661712530.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4149041 Deal with it. It's typical because it's a common sentiment among smart people.

>>	Freund Quentin Mon Sep 30 05:43:15 2013 No.4149101 >>4148818 not this thread again...

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 05:46:14 2013 No.4149105 >>4148998 and then the fuckers from Bioware take it and run with it.

Freund Quentin Mon Sep 30 05:57:14 2013 No.4149119

>>4149041
Let's pull out the checklist, shall we:
>"Epic" scale
>Lots of: swearing, violence, sex (not a bad thing tho), rape
>Grim tone, garish prose
>POV: Generic white lords and ladies, and/or warriors/soldiers (brownie points for commoner POVs, extra brownie points for foreigners/immigrants)
>Ending fatigue (no conclusion in sight)
>Culture: a non-scholar's idea of Medieval Germany/England without the fun or mundane aspects (fairs, universities, alchemists, stage wizardry, storytellers, menial labour, monks, children dicking around)
>Heavy emphasis on "traditional" roles (brownie points for female soldiers, scribes, advisors, chancellors, guildmasters, jesters, etc)
>Gross-out factor to scare away AND lure in the (man)children (marketed as "realism")

I'd say it fits. One brownie point for Brienne and whatsherface.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 06:00:14 2013 No.4149123 it's good. GRRM is on a technical level a mediocre writer, he lacks any sort of poetic beauty in his work but the actual world he has created and the way all the events unfold is really special so that makes up for it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 06:24:24 2013 No.4149138 >>4149123 Pretty much spot on.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 06:34:54 2013 No.4149143 >>4149119 I have no idea what this post is supposed to mean.

>>	Freund Quentin Mon Sep 30 06:40:53 2013 No.4149148 >>4149143 that ASDFASGAF is in no way different from other "epic" fantasy, but in more words than "it's unoriginal crap"

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 06:42:53 2013 No.4149150 >>4149143 >I have no idea what this post is supposed to mean. Are you medically retarded?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 06:49:54 2013 No.4149155 I lost track of the characters. Last time I read it was 2 years ago. I don't think I missed anything. Why should I care who won (if any)? Many better books exist (that actually end).

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 07:17:54 2013 No.4149171 >>4149148 But that's wrong...

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 08:51:05 2013 No.4149258

I won't say I'm an expert on the matter, but I've read my fair share of fantasy, and "A Song of Ice and Fire" has to be one of the best.
I feel like people suddenly hate it now that it hit mainstream media and has become a cultural phenomenon.

I also think it's fairly well written. It can be somewhat messy at times, but I usually assume that is my own inability to comprehend that makes it seem that way. Not being a native English speaker there are times where I have to look up words and phrases to fully understand what's being told.

So far I've completed:
>A Song of Ice and Fire
>Tolkien works
>The Black Company
>Malazan books
>The Wheel of Time
>The Kingkiller Chronicle
>And I'm currently working on the last book in The Broken Empire.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 08:56:04 2013 No.4149264 >>4148853 >Using Old English spellings for titles caused me to grow bored very quickly Holy autism. Kill yourself, please.

>>	Freund Quentin Mon Sep 30 08:58:05 2013 No.4149265 >>4149258 Well, if you've only plebeian escapism to compare it to, of course it'll look great. Anyone who enjoyed that dragged out mess Kingkiller Chronicle should be deeply ashamed.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 08:58:05 2013 No.4149266 >>4149049 But I'm smarter than you, anon, and find it to be a laughably pathetic excuse for a critique.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 09:03:05 2013 No.4149271 The Pagan Lord

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 09:12:04 2013 No.4149276 >>4149119 >someone actually thought this was a 'critique' when they typed it

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 09:15:05 2013 No.4149280

>>4149265
I didn't say anything about liking or disliking any of the other books. I only mentioned the ones I've read.
The kingkiller chronicle was my introduction to reading. I got the first book as a christmas gift and decided I'd give it a go.
It was an alright read if you ask me, but still my least favorite. The protagonist was impossible to empathize with, and it made the whole thing a bit bland.

Try not being such a leaking asshole, though I know /lit/ is filled with elitist narcissist who love displaying their mental prowess, atleast try.
Maybe even suggest something worthwhile, I mean since you're obviously well read and more intelligent and handsome.

Faggot

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 09:15:05 2013 No.4149281 >>4149276 How do you know that? Are you him?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 09:32:05 2013 No.4149290 >>4149281 >someone thought they made a point with this?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 10:26:32 2013 No.4149345 >>4149276 The amount of butthurt you're displaying could power a small powerplant.

>>	Freund Quentin Mon Sep 30 10:38:33 2013 No.4149358 File: 24 KB, 500x334, 0000000000000000.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4149280 I'm sorry, you're breddy cool.

>>	Freund Quentin Mon Sep 30 10:40:32 2013 No.4149360 >>4149276 >>4149290 Are you vexed?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 11:57:04 2013 No.4149478 >>4149258 Why can't I speak another language as well as you speak English...

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 12:04:14 2013 No.4149492 File: 21 KB, 200x332, 200px-Jhereg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4149478 Why can't I speak English as well as him? It's my native language, ffs. >pic not related This is a great fantasy series.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 12:17:15 2013 No.4149528 >>4149119 >Generic white lords and ladies stopped reading there. you know that in china and subsaharian africa whites are the unusual ones,right? the reason why some people keeps putting race in everything really eludes me...

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 12:23:13 2013 No.4149551

I guess this serves as a Fantasy general as well.

So, I started Last Argument of Kings (third in the First Law series) and there's something that really, really bothers me: they did a hefty timeskip, it seems.
For the war in the north that's weird, because they just say "well, there was war going on, some skirmishes and so on", which is strange, considering how much happened in roughly the same timespan before, but okay.
Glokta seemingly was just going around gathering votes, not much interesting business per say, but still the first three chapters are exactly that, so why skip the others, or rather, not this ones as well?
But the absolutely worst is the other characters who journeyed to the west. On their journey to the island they were set upon and hunted by one of the "Emperor's" troops, fought a gazillion Shankas through Aulcus (only bridge and so on) and had all kinds of other problems.
And now we have to believe nothing worth mentioning at all happened on the way back? At least they had to cross Aulcus again, and maybe they were better prepared this time, but the Shanka most likely were still there, as are the brigands and the warring troops of the "Emperors". Really put me off.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 12:29:14 2013 No.4149571 >>4148853 HBO changes the story tho..

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 12:57:07 2013 No.4149620 >>4149345 >>4149360 >If I say they're butthurt it makes it true, right? Nope.

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 13:03:01 2013 No.4149629

>>4149492
>>4149478
Thanks, It's not extremely hard, it just takes time.
Since mostly everything on the internet worth looking at is written in English, it's alot easier to find interesting material to read daily.
I've been trying to teach myself French as well, but I can't understand things other than the absolute basics. Simple conversations, maybe childrens books, but my grammar and pronunciation must be horrible, since I've never talked to anyone in french for more than a minute or two.

If you truely want to learn a foreign language I'd suggest moving. You'll be force fed knowledge on a daily basis. It takes no more than a year, If you're a quick learner 6 months, and you'll be speaking fluently. Assuming you're willing to learn and have very basic understanding of the language beforehand.

If you're into videogames you could get in touch with someone who speaks you language of choise and play together. Raw exposure is always better than the bullshit lessons you listen to microsoft sam pronounce formal words never used in actual conversation.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 13:24:36 2013 No.4149674 >>4149629 My own goals prevent me from doing it at this time, unfortunately but before I am gone from this mortal coil I plan on learning at least six more languages.

Freund Quentin Mon Sep 30 13:48:37 2013 No.4149707

>>4149528
Oh yeah, I distinctly remember GRRM being from China. Argument dismissed.

>>4149620
You are defending GRRM not on any valid point, but because we didn't like something you liked and that made you feel bad. People need to stop taking fandom so seriously that they're gonna start a fight over it.

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 13:51:37 2013 No.4149712

I watched the series but dropped it in the middle of season 3, I didn't have the motivation to download the new episode so I figured I wasn't interested in it anyways. I tried reading the first books but GURMS writing seemed like an endless enumeration of short sentences describing things. 'Robb went to the castle. It was snowing. Jon Snow approached him. 'Hey, Robb' he said.'

>>	Freund Quentin Mon Sep 30 13:52:34 2013 No.4149715 >>4149707 now, if you want fantasy on an epic scale to be done in an interesting and engaging way, you read this: >>4149125

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 13:59:35 2013 No.4149731

>>4148853
This, except, having read a few of the books so far, I'd say there are some decent dramatic monologues.
I also agree that his descriptions are over-right, though I would add that they're not purple, they're just too detailed. It lacks the literary touch that somebody like, say, Chekov, has with detail, where they can select one that perfectly stands in for the several sentances GGRM uses. His sentences are also very dull. He doesn't really stir with grammar or rhythm very often. I have only once noticed him employ rhyme.

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 14:07:37 2013 No.4149740

>>4149119
>Generic white lords and ladies
The book is set in a psuedo-England. You just said it. And the cohesion of race serves to further ironize the fact that the seven kingdoms are squabbling viciously while an actual evil race, the Others, are gathering force.

>Lots of swearing, violence, sex
>gross out factor
Not really. There is comparatively little swearing and sex. There is some violence and rape, but the book's got war in it, what do you expect? There also hasn't been any gratuitous descriptions so far

>Garish prose
Right on this count.

>Grim Tone
Right on this count.

>Culture
Without the fun is rather subjective. He's responding to genre as well as history.

>Emphasis on traditional roles.
This is kind of fair. Though there is some class complexity. It's really not as fine as one would wish for.

>"Epic" Scale.
Nothing wrong with this. The scale is appropriate for world-wide political and natural events.

>Ending fatigue
Maybe.

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 14:08:37 2013 No.4149741

>>4149707
>You are defending GRRM not on any valid point,
No, I'm simply pointing out the laughably stupid 'points' you've mentioned. Most of which are flatly wrong. The rest of which are run-of-the-mill asinine.

>but because we didn't like something you liked and that made you feel bad.
No. Your ignorant hubris is silly, and I like pointing out arrogant retards. Do I really need to go point-by-point to show what an embarrassingly stupid post >>4149119 is?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 14:11:51 2013 No.4149745 >>4149707 >Oh yeah, I distinctly remember GRRM being from China. Argument dismissed. Holy shit. This is the kind of stupid we're dealing with.

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 14:34:54 2013 No.4149782

I don't know if the drop in esteem is because of the TV show - it definitely could be - but, for me, it went from being a series I really enjoyed to absolutely hating when books 4 and 5 came out and it was so obvious he had no idea what to do between the end of book 3 and Dany's dragons being grow up. Two 800+ page books later, everything has stalled and it's all turned to shit. Watery, smelly, over described shit.

Anonymous Mon Sep 30 20:36:45 2013 No.4150451

>>4148853
>By the way, I only read the first 200 pages of the first book, so I very we'll could be wrong in my estimation. But seriously, unless his writing improves vastly in the later books I can't see myself ever returning to them. I'd rather wait for HBO to show me what happens.

I doubt HBO will be able to pull off Dance With Dragons and onward. Hell, it remains to be seen if they'll be able to do justice to Feast For Crows. Then again, they could actually go in a completely different direction than the books after the fourth season.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 21:08:25 2013 No.4150523 >>4149715 The only good fantasy you can come up with is children's books?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 23:17:37 2013 No.4150837 >>4148818 Welcome to the definitive flowchart of "Does /lit/ like it?"! Question 1: Is it popular? Yes: /lit/ hates it. No: /lit/ loves it. Thank you for participating!

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 23:30:36 2013 No.4150871 >>4149782 i found that watching the show made me feel like the books are written very thinly.javascript:;

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 23:38:28 2013 No.4150895 >>4150871 The show gets some things right, but still has muck ups here and there. The Red Wedding, for example, felt pretty underwhelming on the show, but Danny freeing the slaves was ballin'.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 30 23:45:27 2013 No.4150915 >>4150895 i was referring more to how the book builds an image in your head. it's like reading a script

Freund Quentin Tue Oct 1 04:54:52 2013 No.4151270

>>4150523
pretty sad that books for children are more creative and engaging than "le grown-up grim fantasy for adults", isn't it? You dismiss anything like it, and than you end up like >>4151153. But hey, if you don't want to look outside your comfort zone, by all means don't.

>>	Freund Quentin Tue Oct 1 04:55:52 2013 No.4151271 >>4151270 *then

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 1 05:29:54 2013 No.4151292 >>4149571 The showrunners write some good scenes, but they are overall bad at storytelling, as evidenced by how much they botch it up whenever they try to rework any major part of the plot.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 1 14:34:32 2013 No.4151881 >>4151270 >>4151271 lol >>4149740 >>4149741 >>4149745 you can go to bed now, tripfag.

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]

/lit/ - Literature