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/lit/ - Literature

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413876 No.413876 [Reply] [Original]

Hello /lit/

Did you read these books when you were younger? What is your gender? Have you ever noticed how boys are only expected to read books with male heroes (because they can't relate to female ones?), but girls are expected to relate to heroes of both genders? In general, how does the gender of a main character affect your reading experience?

>> No.413895

I read the Redwall series, which had a female heroine in some books (Muriel of Redwall). I still thought they were good even though I was young enough that girls were icky. (Male here)

>> No.413912

>>413895
FUCK YES REDWALL. I loved you until I realized that all your plots were the same... and then I still loved you.

>> No.413952

male here

A good question, OP. I never read books with female protagonists as I was younger. As I got older, that changed, but still hated female protagonists if they were written by male writers. Female protagonists written by female writers definitely seem more real and genuine to me. One of my favorite books is Villette; I hate RJ's female characters.

I'm not sure the same applies for female writers writing male characters (Outsiders, Wuthering Heights), but there definitely is something strange about them.

I need to read more books where I don't know what gender the author is, and so I can go in with no pre-conceptions.

Sorry. Never really answered your question.

>> No.413998

>>413952
Well, you brought author gender into discussion, which is definitely a good topic-- but everyone read Harry Potter despite Rowling's gender, right?

I agree that in general female characters written by males tend to ring untrue, and you know, Most Writers Are Male. I think that male authors tend to think that females are so inherently different from males that their characterization ends up coming off as really forced.

>> No.414013

I read the previous series set in Tortall as a kid, the Kel books didn't come out until I was in high school (I'm female). I still really dig Tamora Pierce, though looking back, her early books aren't very well-written. It's nice to have books with female protagonists that aren't about horses or other "girl topics".

>> No.414037

>>413952

Yeah, I'm pretty sure women understand men far better than men understand women.

My (male) friend's mind was completely blown when he found out that the Animorphs series was written by a woman. It's funny how things like that can seem so strange even though it there was no reason to assume that the author was male (other than that most authors are, of course).

>> No.414050

ok, here is anther thing to think about.

Do straight men or straight women write gay men beter?

>> No.414051

Girls may be expected to related to heroes of both genders, but really, I find that girls like male protagonists just as much as boys ( if not more ).

>> No.414066

I find when it comes to the young adult/teen section of books. That many of the writers are female, and the heroes are usually male.

>> No.414069

>>414050
Straight men will write about the kind of manly scruffy gays who are married and who fuck in the saunas after public baths. Straight women will write about dramatic gay love that is often young and inexperienced. Which you think represents gays the most? You decide.

>> No.414072

>>414069
why should they be mutually exclusive?

>> No.414075

>>414072
because we all know everybody has sex the same way, duh!

>> No.414081

>>414051
not really, I am female, and to me it isn't about gender so much.

It is about how the book in written, if the plot is interesting to me and if I like the way the characters are written.
I don't care if the main character is a boy or a girl.

BUT I do find if you are female people are more likely to recommend books that have a female protagonist.

Teachers and family members for some reason think if you don't read enough books that can be seen as a "female role model" You will become a whore or start knifing people in alleys.

>> No.414086
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414086

>>414075
I see what you did there

>> No.414093

>>414072
It's not impossible to find a gray area but I'm sure we can agree that these two perspectives are somewhat different.

>> No.414103

>>414081
Same thing that happens if a boy is seen reading books about pretty princesses.

>> No.414108

>>414093
you can have pretty awkward sex in a sauna with an almost complete stranger, feeling like a insecure teen while you have a wife and be successful in a competitive business environment...
... at least thats what is was like for me the last time i sucked cock and took it up the butt

>> No.414109

>>414081
For instance, my favorite book as a kid was "the last unicorn" by peter s beagle

I remember after class my teacher called me in while recess was going on to talk to me about my "book choices" We all had to write book reports once a month, I believe it was 4th grade.
And while the other girls picked books about horses or about a girl coming of age, or THE BABYSITTERS CLUB.
I was reading Stephen King, ulysses, adult horror stories, adult scifi and adult fantasy. I remember I even looked up the 8th grade reading list and was reading their books, like the giver, lord of the flies, and so on.

My teacher was concerned I was reading above my level and I wouldn't understand the themes of the book and she was worried I would get a bad impression. Maybe I would like to read a nancy dru book?

But once I told her my next book would be my favorite "the last unicorn" which had a female unicorn as the main character she calmed down. From then on I remember I just did a book report on the "little house on the prairie" books and kept my other books to myself.

>> No.414122

Thinking about it, I almost read only books written by males and have a male protagonist. There are exceptions, but in general I just seem to prefer those.
I don't see how reading mostly books with male protagonists makes you a whore or stab someone in an alley when you're a girl. Might just make you better in bed, though (from a male perspective).

>> No.414124

>>414109
hi i'm a 5th grader is finnegan's wake too complicated for me hlp plz

>> No.414125

>>414109
ulysses in 4th grade? you mean the odyssey

>> No.414131

>>414109
if its like you described it, your teacher was dumb (was she male or female?). But its not completely off to assume that a 4th grader can not really cope with more challenging books, content wise as well as stylistically it would be safe to say that there are books that would be over your head (not stephen king necessarily)

>> No.414142

>>414103
that is very true.

If either a boy or a girl reads something not considered for "them" usually the family or friends will make sure it is known that those books are not for them. I think in many ways boys have it a lot worse.

Females can easily read girly books and "boy" books with little or no ridicule.
Yet boys will be made fun of for reading something not in fashion, for young kids, or with a female protagonist.

I wonder if society was more open and didn't box people into such gender roles what children would grow up to like.
Would little girls still flock to twilight if they had been allowed to read or had read murder mysteries or greek tragedies?
Would boys want to read violent and action style books if they had been allowed to read romance style books?

Who knows, I suppose, this is all something that would be very hard to test. There is no escaping the society you live in.

>> No.414151

>>414125
heh, no my mother was a huge hippy.

I read a lot of her "books" as a child. She didn't see anything wrong with books that obviously were not for children. And I didn't see anything wrong with them until I was told so by others.

>> No.414155

>>414142
But once you realize you're in the box, you can always climb out.

>> No.414160

>>414109
That's a very /lit/ childhood. I think you're in the minority, however, when it comes to liking books whether the protagonist is male or female. Or maybe I'm very influenced by how weird my sister is. She doesn't date guys, has hardly any male friends, is currently in a lesbian relationship but she's reads male protagonists and yaoi. Ah, why are you fags not making any sense.

>> No.414165

>>414151
encase I wasn't clear I am talking about the James Joyce version. I never wrote a report on it OBVIOUSLY, it was way to long.

And to be honest I didn't like it very much, which still stands to this day since I reread it not long ago and I was pretty much like "YUP this still blows"

>> No.414171

>>414165
*in case
excuse me, typing to fast.

>> No.414174

>>414142
well, I dont really think it is a matter of what families allow their kids to read (never experienced anything like that or heard about that). But as you said, society has more subtle ways to ascribe gender roles. My mother tried to raise me as gender-neutral as possible in my early childhood. I still refused everything that had the color pink or could not be used to fight, crush or kill as a toy. Almost everything turned into a gun or a knife of some sorts, my collection of police-cars was unmatched. Any my father wasn't exactly a tough guy but instead always secretly disliked me being so violent in my imagination as he himself was a pacifist. Television, books and comradeship with my peers made me like that.

>> No.414177

ulysses in fourth grade is impossible to comprehend. I would even say it is impossible to follow the plot.

>> No.414183

>>414155
yeah, have fun with that illusion.

>> No.414186

>>414155
>once you realize you're in the box, you can always climb out.
I'm sure you think that's very clever, but the whole point here is that there are real pressures to conform and serious consequences to defying them.

A "Ha ha! I laugh at social pressure, and so should everyone else!" attitude is completely unrealistic. Almost everyone who professes to hold it is actually just conforming to the standards and pressures of a different, often marginal group, and most of the rest are miserable and isolated, either working menial jobs or dependent on charity (or both).

>> No.414190

>>414160
perhaps,

I think we can all agree that our favorite books or most the books we like to read have to do with what we would like to do, or who we would like to be.
You read fantasy because you love the idea of it, you would like to visit far of places or live in a place with that kind of technology. And so on.

That is your first pick when choosing a book, if the plot and topic are something you enjoy then I think the gender of character comes second.
Now if you happen to like gay romance and sex, well, in that case you will probably be getting a male protagonist.

>> No.414187

Shit, OP, I loved those books so much. I wanted to run away and be a page to a knight so badly. For the purposes of this thread, I will mention that I am indeed female. However, I thought that it was just unfortunate and shallow-minded that guys couldn't relate to a heroine, whereas I could relate just as well to Raistlin.

>> No.414203

>>414174
that is a very good point.

In many ways tv and what your peers think can have an even larger influence on you then your own family.

>> No.414214

>>414186
hah!

yes those people that "rebel" against society are really boxing themselves into other social pressures by their "rebel" peers.

>> No.414215

I am german and a male. In my childhood I was a huge fan of a book called Ronja Räubertocher (ronja the robbers daughter) and Pipi Langstrumpf (pipi longstocking), books by the swedish author Astrid Lindgren and who both have female protagonists (but they are very tomboyish). They are considered timeless classics of childrens literature for all genders, I was a big fan of them. And digging deeper, there were actually quite a lot of really common childrens books and movies that had female protagonists (but our parents were all higher middle class lefties, so this might not be the case for overall society)
oh yeah, I am also that dude who was obsessed with instruments of death and agony >>414174

>> No.414220

>>414215
so, how did you like your commie-parents? you're a regular of /k/ by now?

>> No.414243

>>414177
my 4th grade self and the self I am right now would like to say this to james joyce

pretentious.. pretentious... pretentious

he write marvelous letters though

>> No.414250

>>414215

Ronia the Robber's Daughter was the shit.

>> No.414252

>>414220
nope. we can not legally optain weapons here like that. I hate women, minorities, the government and everybody who is not like me because I want to rebel against my "commie" parents, if that was what you were hinting at.

>> No.414259

>>414250
I wont argue about that with you, because I was 10 when I read it. I hardly remember the plot.

>> No.414265

>>414215
In America I think the classic children books we have don't break the barriers between gender.

Like girls read nancy drew and boys read the hardy boys.
Can any fellow Americans here think of a childrens book classic that is ok for all kids to read without getting looks?

Other then ones where the protagonist is an animal.
Like black beauty or call of the wild.

>> No.414266

>>414243
maybe you as a four year old and you a couple of years ago are in the same way unable to comprehend, but this really should not get derailed into one of these stupid discussions /lit/ so often indulges in.

>> No.414270

>>414259
that was slang for "it was good"

>> No.414275

>>414265
what boy would read black beauty. horses are for girls, so dictates the eternal never changing society god made not so long ago.

>> No.414278

>>414266
4th grade refers to the year in school. Not the year in age.

The common 4th grader is around 9-10 years old.

>> No.414283

>>414275
sorry, I forgot horses were gay.

>> No.414286

>>414278
true, I meant fourth grader though. My fault, comment still stands.

>> No.414295

I think we can all agree that the novelization of Robot Unicorn Attack is suitable reading for children of any sex.

>> No.414293

>>414286
well did you like it then?

Because you might be the first person I have ever met that actually liked it.

>> No.414305

>>414295
are they attacking eachother? Or something else?

>> No.414310

>>414293
oh, hell yeah did I like it. It was work, it took me a month and I worked through the annotations after every chapter (which took about twice as much time as acutally reading it). I was stunned by the many layers and what he achieved stylistically. I often laughed out loud because of his humour. I read it while I was in Dublin and I retraced Blooms step, actually (which is not really a great experience as the people who live there want to make you believe). It was a humbling experience, but I profited immensely from this book. But then again, as a history-student I like the challenge of working a text like riding a horse to death.

>> No.414311

I loved Tamora Pierce as a little girl. I read books with both male and female protagonists (like Redwall) but I found aside from Pierce's work I was reading more books with male protagonists when I hit my early teens. Most YA fiction books aimed at girls with female protagonists feature finding a boyfriend or a true love and I wasn't very interested in that. Female YA fiction is very slowly changing to include more powerful female characters but even then most focus on finding a boyfriend, as opposed to Pierce's books where not all the female characters are out to get a boyfriend (a good example would be Kel from Protector of the Small).

I think my favourite books when I was 12-13 were The Last Unicorn, and the His Dark Materials series.

>> No.414314

>>414305
they probably have gay sex, awkward and manly alike.

>> No.414318

>>414314
fund it.

>> No.414321

>>414311
oh yeah, his dark materials was great. not exactly average fantasy I dare say.

>> No.414326

I remember seeing that book around when I was little, but I'm not sure if I read it or not. MALE

>> No.414331

You are now aware that unicorns have prominent spine ridges that vibrate as they run.

>> No.414332

>>414311
fuck yeah the last unicorn.

I also agree one of the main problems with female protagonist is it does seem like they put more focus on finding a man. Which to someone that often finds love subplots annoying it makes you not want to read a book with a female protagonist even if you are female.

That was why I got into mystery books or horror mystery books, they have a lot of female protagonists with more focus on the mystery or detective plot with less of the romance.

>> No.414336

>>414321
I think a lot of kids read them.

I know my whole class did as assigned reading.

>> No.414339

>>414336
over here they dont

>> No.414393

Here's the thing: men ARE the "go out and have adventures" sex.

If you look at the basic evolutionary unit of humanity, the primitive tribe, it's pretty clear that they lifted most of the muscle and a good deal of the brain off of the females and loaded it up on the males, which is just good sense from an organizational perspective.

We are very social creatures, and there is clear sex specialization written into our basic design: women shelter behind male strength.

Stories about women striking out on their own just don't ring true. A woman's victories are expected to be social ones, and largely at the expense of her peer group, and her troubles are expected to be largely beyond her control, a matter for fortitude rather than courage.

That's not heroic. The whole tribe doesn't celebrate the girl snagging the chief's son. That's her private victory, and a good deal of the tribe is rather put out.

It's the men who go out and win victories for the whole tribe, killing dangerous beasts and defeating rival tribes.

That's what's natural. That's what resonates best. It's not fair, but life's not fair.

>> No.414414

>>414393
I am male. You are dumb. You are not completely wrong with the first couple of sentences, but then you just talked some primitive, unsubstantiated shit. You are actually making all males that defend basic natural gender roles look bad. Please dont talk like that in public again.

>> No.414420

>>414393
shouldnt you be constructing a roof or emptying trashcans somewhere?

>> No.414601

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Kingdom_series
I'm male and enjoyed these.

Your premise is flawed.

>> No.414893

>>414393
lol what.

But in tribes women were the ones that did the work that made the tribe thrive.
Women also were members of council and usually held the most respected positions. As leader of the group and healer.
It wasn't until Christianity came around to pagan society that they were told women could not have these positions. The position of healer and leader were only for religious men.

The only reason you think tribes were made up of men that did all the ceremonies, made all the decisions, and brought home all the food ,while women had babies, is because that is what you THINK they must have done because you think our society today must be in an improvement on society back then.

But in many ways womens rights went backwards when Christianity hit the scene.