/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.4135116]

I recently read that Doestoevsky was an anti-semite, so thought I'd give his works another try.

Does he have any shorter works that are good?

[Anonymous No.4135119]

Everyone before the second world war was an anti-Semite, because no one was scared of being called a Nazi for criticising the Jews.

[Anonymous No.4135121]

>>4135116
>reading books because you share personal opinions with the author
anti-semitism aside, how fucking pleb can you get

[Anonymous No.4135137]

>>4135121

>I only authors who I completely disagree with on every possible point.

so high-brow, so special

>why would you care if he shared your opinion

cause I i'm interested in why people think what they do, how they express it in their art

[Anonymous No.4135138]

>>4135121

>I only read authors who I completely disagree with on every possible point.

so high-brow, so special--wow--impressive

>why would you care if he shared your opinion

cause I like to learn more about those opinions

[Anonymous No.4135147]

>>4135119
Yeah, just a little less than 200 years ago the people of Denmark went around in Denmark as angry mobs, finding jews to rob or harass.

[Anonymous No.4135160]

notes from underground is fab and really short
the dream of a ridiculous man is even shorter

[Anonymous No.4135226]

>>4135138
>why would you care if he shared your opinion
>cause I like to learn more about those opinions

Hahaha! No wonder you're such an ignorant cunt. If you wanted to actually _learn_ something you would seek out opinions that don't match your own. As it is you're just looking for self-affirmation.

[Anonymous No.4135232]

>>4135226
So a biologist should ignore evolution
and concentrate more on creationism instead?

Now your just being silly

[Anonymous No.4135234]

>>4135232
>So a biologist should ignore evolution
and concentrate more on creationism instead?

Sorry mate, did you genuinely just compare being a Biologist to being an anti-semite?

[Anonymous No.4135237]

>>4135232

he didn't say concentrate

a biologist would seek out other biologist papers that disagreed with his own hypotheses. This is quite common in many disciplines. not in the internet jew hating brigade apparently. fuck i took an anthropology class and on the first day we learned about archbishop usher of urmagh or something like that and his biblical theories of creation. Stop being such a faget.

[Anonymous No.4135278]

>>4135232
>not knowing that science (and any other academic subject, really) proceeds by arguing with existing opinions/theories
>2013
Within a given framework, mind. So someone arguing for Science! in general will engage with creationism, but actual scientists doing Science! will disagree with each other instead.

[Anonymous No.4135283]

>I recently read that Doestoevsky was an anti-semite, so thought I'd give his works another try.

[Anonymous No.4135495]

>>4135160
>notes from underground is fab and really short

Just read /r9k/ for a while, it's the same with less autism

[Anonymous No.4135506]

he was antisemitic and thats why his works arent any good

[Anonymous No.4135507]

>>4135495
lel

[Anonymous No.4135777]

>>4135278
>>4135237

>hururrr you must never ever read something you agree with, ever!! Only read things u disagree with!!!!

Sounds retarded, no thnx

[Anonymous No.4135860]

>>4135234
>>4135237
>>4135226


so I'm assuming pro-semitic people try very hard to read as much anti-semitic stuff as possible, in order to challenge that point of view

they also read pro-rape, pro-murder, pro-pedo, pro-everything they are against, on a regular basis

[Anonymous No.4135862]

>>4135147

Yeah, pretty soon that's what people are gonna start doing to Christians. Why is it cool to hate?

[Anonymous No.4135863]

>>4135860
>Tu quoque
Every time you point a finger four points back at you nigger.

[Anonymous No.4135868]

>>4135863

>realizes how stupid his initial logic was, replies with non-statements

good job, now slither away

[Anonymous No.4135871]

anti-semitism is one of the most profoundly stupid things that still plagues the human race to this day

>>4135138
Dostoevsky never wrote anything significant about his anti-semitism
what authors do you read already?

[Anonymous No.4135872]

>>4135871
>anti-semitism is one of the most profoundly stupid things that still plagues the human race to this day
Easy now, Isaac. Don't get too many feathers ruffled.

[Anonymous No.4135882]

>>4135872
like racism and xenophobia in general, it's a hugely limiting delusion that only breeds negativity
and yet /pol/ act like it's objective truth
the mind boggles

[Anonymous No.4135886]

>>4135882
like anti-racism and cultural marxism in general, it's a hugely limiting delusion that only breeds pseudo-science and degeneracy
and yet schools act like it's objective truth
the mind boggles

[Anonymous No.4136054]

>>4135886


Nothing wrong with anti semitism in moderation and based on facts. Not all Jews are evil and not all Nazis are evil, we must be realistic though

There's a reason great writers like Ezra pound thought poorly of jews

[Anonymous No.4136076]

>>4135871
Enough brilliant and famous people have been anti-Semites that it's impossible to say only stupid people are anti-Semites, at least. Whether or not it's stupid in and of itself.

There's nothing conceptually wrong with "anti-Semitism". It's just dislike of a people who exist in your society, people who happen to be relatively very prominent compared to other minorities, generally and historically speaking. The only thing exceptional about it is the glaring chauvinism inherent in claiming "anti-Semitism" to be a phenomenon distinct from and more important than generic racism, xenophobia, or simple dislike (sometimes deserved/understandable) of certain minorities or out-groups.

The reason "anti-Semitism" exists, insofar as it does, is that Jews cry ANTI-SEMITISM when someone criticises a Jew in any way.

[Anonymous No.4136086]

>>4136054
>taking /pol/ seriously

[Anonymous No.4136104]

>>4135860
Initial anon that was the first to refute your ignorance here; the problem is not solely - though it must be said, it is partially - that you expressed a desire to read something because the author, of the said works, professed to holding an opinion that you do, but also because you wanted to do so because you thought you would learn something from it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but anti-semitism is a pretty concrete concept no? You either agree with it or you don't.

Imagine, if you will, two swimming pools. One full to the brim of shit, the other full to the brim of piss. Everyday you come down to the baths for your morning swim, now, for whatever reason, you are partial to swimming in the pool full of shit. You like it, you agree with it. The piss pool - it doesn't float your boat. That's fine, 'each to his own' and other trite sentiments.

Now imagine you have friend, and he keeps inviting you to swim in his pool, but again, for whatever reason you decide to decline. It comes to your attentions, however, that this friend's pool is also full of shit. This is big news, you decide. You can barely keep yourself from stripping down to your trunks. So of course, with this information in hand, you decide to mosey on down to your friend's house and you have a great time with him bathing in shit. But, and this is my question, have you actually learnt anything? A pool full of shit, at the end of the day, is a pool full of shit.

Why don't you want to swim in piss anon? Why?

[Anonymous No.4136112]

>>4136054
>There's a reason great writers like Ezra pound thought poorly of jews

Seriously, I honestly have to give Eliot and Pound some credence for hating Jews with the intensity that they did. I mean, what was their reasoning?

[Anonymous No.4136499]

>>4136112
Jews.

[Anonymous No.4136766]

>>4136112
Same reason gk Chesterton wasn't a fan... All their financing and corruption and war profiteering. Although he was in favor of them having a 'Jewish' nation...which is funny

[Anonymous No.4136800]

>>4136054
Ezra Pound also joined Mussolini's Italy and spent the last bit of his life in an asylum.

You can be extremely intelligent and/or talented. It doesn't mean everything you do is perfect. Take Roman Polanski: he should be in prison, of course, but that doesn't mean he's not one of the best directors alive.

[Anonymous No.4136836]

>>4136800

Ezra Pound did not spend the last bit of his life in an asylum. He spent some time after WWII in one mostly just because he was a supporter of Mussolini.

[Anonymous No.4136848]

>>4136112

Like a number of intellectuals, Pound blamed WWI on Jewish bankers and war profiteers.

I'd like to know what led him to this conclusion, but it's difficult to find objective data on the Jews' involvement in European banking before WWI.

Almost as if it's been erased from history forever.

[Anonymous No.4136869]

>>4135116
Everyone hates Jews even today they just don't know they are hating them. Seriously, kikes fucking ruin the world. I just wish the Holohoax was as bad as the Jew media and Jewish ran Soviet Union played it out to be.

[Anonymous No.4136875]

>>4135862
It's not cool to hate. Jews are evil bastards. Not all of them but most of them are zionist bigots.

[Anonymous No.4136879]

>>4136836

Speaking of Pound --

Has anyone else read ABC of Reading?

It's one of the best (and funniest) literary textbooks I've read. He offers an antidote to post-modernism and identity politics.

One passage:

"If you want to study the novel, go, READ the best you can find. All that I know about it, I have learned by reading:

"Tom Jones, by Fielding.

"Tristam Shandy and The Sentimental Journey by Sterne (and I don't recommend anyone ELSE to try to do another Tristam Shandy).

"The novels of Jane Austen and Trollope.

"Continuing:

"The novels of Henry James, AND especially the prefaces to his collected edition; which are the one extant great treatise on novel writing in English.

"In French you can form a fairy good ideogram from:

"Benjamin Constant's Adolphe.

"The first half of Stendal's Rouge et Noir and the first eighty pages of the La Chartreuse de Parme.

"Madame Bovary, L'Education Sentimentale, Trois Contes, and the unfinished Bouvard et Pecuchet of FLAUBERT, with Goncourt's preface to Germinie Lacerteux."

[Anonymous No.4136886]

>>4135860
Look at you pathetically brainwashed jew loving retards

[Anonymous No.4136884]

yeah he was def an anti Semite, its all over his best works.

suck it up and read the brothers Karamazov, its long but well worth the time

[Anonymous No.4136883]

>>4135860
> pro-semitic people

[Anonymous No.4136887]

>>4136848
Why is this argument focused on pro-Semitic v.s. anti-Semetic? Can't we instead focus on the issue itself: capitalist exploitation? Makes me think you are a xenophobe.

Jewish born anarchist here.

[Anonymous No.4136891]

>>4135116

Serious question:

Were there any great Russian authors who WEREN'T anti-semites?

Doestoevsky, Lermontov, Turgenev, Solschenizyn, Bulgakov, and Gogol were. Not sure about Pushkin. (He wrote a romance about Gypsies.)

[Anonymous No.4136894]

>>4136879
>mentions antidote
>doesn't post it

also wtf are you doing w/ all of those open quotes m8.

[Anonymous No.4136895]

>>4135860
read lolita and mein kampf. that count?

[Anonymous No.4136900]

>>4136891
did you just skip over mentioning tolstoy for kicks?

[Anonymous No.4136907]

>>4136891
Not really
The Bolsheviks were jews for the most part.
Everyone hates jews because jews are fucking cunts.

[Anonymous No.4136923]

>>4136887

From what I understand (which isn't much), Pound viewed all Jewish culture -- religious and secular -- as perfidious and parasitic and opposed to Western traditions.

The growing influence of Jewish culture encouraged venality among rich and degeneracy among the masses.

Thus, removing the Jews from Europe would have helped firm traditional Western mores.

[Anonymous No.4136927]

>>4136900

Ha! No, I totally forgot Tolstoy.

Don't know his position on Jews -- but, given his anarcho-Christian bent, I assume he wasn't a fan.

[Anonymous No.4136928]

>>4136907
Weird how Russia only got kind of allright when Putin pointed the door to all the jews who were rotting up Yeltsin's government?

[Anonymous No.4136932]

>>4136923

To clarify:

Jewish bankers were a symptom. Jewish culture was the disease.

[Anonymous No.4136938]

>>4136928

Source on this? Genuinely interested.

[Anonymous No.4136965]

oh my god shut up about the fuck jews already

[Anonymous No.4137001]

>>4136938
Sorry I went having dinner after posting. I heard about that in a video by the French anti-semite master Alain Soral; although I don't have any precise source to direct you to, the research is easy to do about the relationship between Yeltsin and the Jews.

[Anonymous No.4137219]

>>4136928
And then they all went to Israel and it became rich.

[Anonymous No.4137247]

>>4137001
>Alain Soral

his video on Feminism is fucken gold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do5zrdTb-yI

[Anonymous No.4137316]

>>4137247
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do5zrdTb-yI
holy shit that was the dumbest thing I've ever heard someone hold forth about

was he being serious?

How could someone possibly be that stupid?

[Anonymous No.4137322]

>>4137316

>muh feminism

[Anonymous No.4137331]

>>4137316

he made excellent points, what are you confused about?


here's more feminism gold : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHiqXxoRFro

[Anonymous No.4137337]

>>4137322
why is that picture relevant to your post?

[Anonymous No.4137344]

>>4135116
Anti-semitism used to be a dislike of the materialism and high finance associated with Jews, like leftists today dislike capitalism and capitalists. Replace "corporation" with "Jew" in any leftist literature and it sounds like Nazi rhetoric.

Social roles were more defined in the past. Christians couldn't lend for interest so the necessary profession was mainly taken up by Jews in Europe.

[Anonymous No.4138354]

>>4137219
>And then they all went to Israel and it became even more of a shithole.

FTFY

[Anonymous No.4138362]

>>4135116
>mfw when "shorter works"

[Anonymous No.4138364]

>>4137344
So, leftists=nazi?

[Anonymous No.4138384]

>>4138362

>mfw when

idiot.

[Anonymous No.4138407]

Jesus. Poor jews. So much misinformation.

The reason for the historical opprobrium against jews is long and fraught but what it basically comes down to is there's a fundamental disagreement between Judaism and Christianity as to who exactly qualifies for proximity to God. Judaism is essentially exclusive in that one needs Jewish blood in order to qualify whereas Christianity fundamentally opposes this idea, actively putting pretty much anyone who wants to in candidacy (being that they need to be Christians and so on, obviously). The extent to which Christian thinking has influenced ideas on this can still be felt today in terms of the way people get their backs up at the idea of Jews being an 'exclusive' group or considering themselves as such but that's basically the upshot: Judaism is fundamentally exclusive, whereas Christianity is inclusive. One way this plays out interestingly is in the variety and degrees of sophistication you can get in Christianity, too from the high, almost obscure theologies of some thinkers right down to the most dogmatic protestantisms.

So that's the most important thing to understand. Then obviously this has played out historically in all sorts of ways that basically amount to, very simply "the jews think they're better than us" and then all kinds of shit. Jews themselves have long worried about this idea that they're somehow considered suspicious and have made many attempts, particularly during the enlightenment, to kind of 'dress down' their jewishness, if for no other reason than they can simply assimilate more and so on. Interestingly too, one of the repulses against this was the beginning of the various traditional orthodox forms - they became 'more' jewish in a sense although charges of 'ultra orthodoxy' are completely misapplied at best. So yeah, basically they've had a cloud of suspicion hanging over them that has to do with this idea of 'exclusivity' and the deep Christian idea that 'everyone' is entitled to be God's 'chosen'.

They've also been kept out of a lot which hasn't had any effect than to create even more suspicion of them, sadly. One example being the diamond trade. The reason you find a high incidence of jewish diamond dealers is simply because the diamond trade in Antwerp was guild free so it's one of the few industries they could go into. Similarly, film in the states was a natural extension market for jews because they were heavily involved in vaudeville and other entertainment and the reason was because jewish people liked to go to the theatre after shul.

And so on.

tl;dr people of all kinds throughout history have had all sorts of problems with the jews because the jews consider themselves an exclusive group.

[Anonymous No.4138533]

>>4135495
If you want r9k read White Nights

[Anonymous No.4138645]

>>4138407
That exclusivity is a huge conflict of interest when they enter politics media and teaching positions. Overtly or subtley their allegiance is questuonable

[Anonymous No.4138867]

>>4137247
I don't like how he uses Feminism as a blanket term for the struggles of boredom in Bourgeois women since 'Feminism' also denotes more important issues such as reproductive rights. Apart from that, his argument is well-reasoned imo.

>>4137344
I will agree, since I come from a Jewish background (and know first hand) that the materialism of the associated culture is bad. Mansions in Hollywood etc etc. Little known fact - before Castro took power, Havana was run by Jewish gangsters.

However, there are Christians and Arabs that live just as extravagantly. Take Haliburton for example. Thus, this isn't an issue of 'the Jew' but of the obscenely wealthy.

[Anonymous No.4138882]

>this thread

wow /lit/ for people who read so much you sure are as pleb as the average sheep

[Anonymous No.4138979]

>>4136869
>I know more than experts who study the Holocaust for a living
Stalin also got rid of the Yids later on, by the way.

[Anonymous No.4139174]

>>4137337
how is this post relevant to this threads topic?

[Anonymous No.4139179]

>>4138882
This is not /lit/, this is /pol/ posting on /lit/. Most of the regulars on here aren't stupid enough to be anti-semitic.

[Anonymous No.4139182]

>>4139179
muh true scotsman

[Anonymous No.4139186]

>>4139182
Leave, /pol/.

[Anonymous No.4139193]

Mod just deleted Mein Kampf thread that had no offending content in it except for ">:( antisemite" shitposts. But this one is still up.

[Anonymous No.4139201]

>>4139182
>muh
You are so /pol/ it's ridiculous. People on /lit/ don't use muh