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/lit/ - Literature

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4118630 No.4118630[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

#19 of Pixar's 22 Rules of Storytelling:

Agree or disagree?

>> No.4118639

dont care about rules given by a company that makes stupid childrens films that somehow appeals to manchildren

>> No.4118657

>>4118639
crankypants needs a nap.

I never thought about it that way, OP, but I agree. And if Pixar does anything well, it's that they tell an interesting story.

>> No.4118661

>>4118630
Deus ex machinas are cheating.

>> No.4118664

I'm not going to take anything too seriously from a studio that exists solely to churn out childrens stories.

>> No.4118666

>>4118630
Basically just says don't use Dues Ex Machina. Pretty basic. But I don't agree that coincidences to get characters into trouble are great - there's nothing inherently wrong with them, but they can get old after a while and frustrate the reader.

>> No.4118684

>>4118639
>UP.
>First 8 minutes.
They DO know their shit. I'm not a big fan of Pixar but I agree with this one.

>> No.4118741

>>4118639
So you watch shit comedy movies and retarded action flix then?

>> No.4119701

UP: PIXAR BASTARDS HAVE GONE TOO FAR THIS TIME

http://exiledonline.com/up-pixar-bastards-have-gone-too-far-this-time/

>> No.4119732

>>4118684
>All of Wall E.
>Coraline.
Cartoons in general, when they're good, are G-rated in the true sense of the word, where a 10 year old, a 15 year old and an 80 year old can sit next to each other and enjoy the same thing.
There should be a label that warns people when they won't enjoy something they're too old for.

>> No.4120633

>>4118684
The third act of Up shows that they don't

>> No.4120644

I disagree with both, actually. Neither is universally or even generally true.

>> No.4120668

>>4118639
>>4118664
>>4119701
>>4119732
>>4120633
There are only a few things more pathetic than keeping up 1950's opinions about animation. Samefagging is one of them.

>> No.4120684

>>4120668
This isn't about animation in general, though, it's about children's cartoons, which is what Pixar makes.

>> No.4120706

>>4120668
No offense but modern western animation isn't doing much to prevent those opinions. The only "adult animation" that exists are things like "Family Guy" which are pretty shit. Japanese animation at least makes a variety of things, western just produces the same shit over and over. "Isn't it funny that these things that don't usually talk, talk? Let's see if we can make 100 puns before the end of the movie!"

>> No.4120718

>>4120684
Family films aren't children's films, they're made for the general audience. Arthur would be an example of children's animation.

>> No.4120734
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4120734

>>4120706
>anime
>not the same shit over and over
Of course the plebs here only have any familiar with popular trash

>> No.4120742

>2013
>writing books where characters 'get in trouble'
i shiggity

>> No.4120755
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4120755

>>4120706
>No offense but modern western animation isn't doing much to prevent those opinions.
I get what you're saying, but just because Western animation is dominated by a few studios that've sequestered themselves to the West's children's market doesn't mean the independent animation, that is decidedly not children's media, doesn't exist and isn't worth noting. However, even the major studios have taken general-audience more seriously and produced great work, like PIXAR's movies, Nick's Avatar franchise, the eternally abused Genndy, etc. The Japanese -do- have a great animation industry, in the way of access, that's undeniably better than what is available in the Americas and Europe.

>> No.4120758 [DELETED] 

>>4120718

Let's not beat around the bush here, they are sugar-coated movies. They aren't some grand tour-de-force of film, but instead a virtue in an otherwise bloated commercial industry.

>> No.4120762

>>4120668

>everyone doesn't share my opinion

LEL SAMEFAG

>> No.4120767

>>4120755
By the way, a movie for general audiences isn't a movie for adults. You are held back in content, characters and even plot about how to appeal to kids as well, which means it will be very colorful, generic, and fake.

>> No.4120771

>>4119732

Coraline isn't a Pixar movie...

>> No.4120774
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4120774

>>4120706
>The only "adult animation" that exists are things like "Family Guy" which are pretty shit.

You ought to educate yourself with pic related before you go spouting such nonsense.

>> No.4120776 [DELETED] 

>>4120755

>Western animation

You mean American Animation

>> No.4120779

>>4120755
None of that stuff is great though. They're just childish trifles filled with nonstop action and stupid jokes that only occasionally rub up against serious themes. Adults might find them watchable, but they're hardly anything brilliant

>> No.4120782

>>4120706

>No offense but modern western animation isn't doing much to prevent those opinions

Modern western animation isn't all American

>> No.4120784

>>4120774
Superjail was shit after the first season.

>> No.4120790

>>4120779
>None of that stuff is great though. They're just childish trifles
Oh, fuck off.

>> No.4120796

>>4120790

>It's good because 'even the major studios have taken general-audience more seriously and produced great work'

That's not a good argument

>> No.4120795

>>4120779
>They're just childish trifles filled with nonstop action and stupid jokes that only occasionally rub up against serious themes.
But that doesn't describe any of the examples I gave.

>> No.4120798

>>4120795
Yes it does.

>> No.4120799

>>4120767
>By the way, a movie for general audiences isn't a movie for adults.
But that's exactly what it is. Just not exclusively for adults.

>You are held back in content, characters and even plot about how to appeal to kids as well,
>which means it will be very colorful, generic, and fake.
No, it doesn't.

>> No.4120800

>>4120798
No, it doesn't.

>> No.4120804

>>4120796
>putting words in people's mouths
>my opinion is fact

>> No.4120809

>>4120784
I beg to differ. Though their interest in character development ultimately hurt the show there are quite a few episodes from the second and third season that are on par with the first. Mayhem Donor, Hotchick, Ghosts, Jailbot 2.0, The Budding of the Warbuxx from just the second season alone.

>> No.4120819

>>4120800
There's nothing particularly great about Avatar or Samurai Jack or whatever. I'm sorry. They're just silly, childish fantasy stories that sometimes take themselves too seriously given their content otherwise

>> No.4120875

>>4120819
>they're childish trifles
>filled with nonstop action
>and stupid jokes
>only occasionally serious
Each of these opinions are either factually incorrect (none of the listed have nonstop action), meaningless (comedy and action are bad- all fiction has to be entirely serious and deal with super serious super mature material like rape, drug overdose, debauchery, etc. "Childish". ), or mere taste posed as fact ("stupid" jokes, "childish trifles"). You can have your opinion but it doesn't make you patrician merely having it.

>> No.4120882

>>4120875
>le opinions
Fuck off manchild scum.

>> No.4120885
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4120885

Anybody here watching Uchouten Kazoku?

Now that's some good anime.

>> No.4120893

>>4120882
I'm genuinely sorry that you're grandstanding isn't convincing, anon. Don't be upset, they're just childish trifles, right?

>> No.4120905

>>4120819
Off the top of my head I remeber Avatar has references to Journey of the West, Dream of the Red Chamber, Heart of Darkness, Buddhism, Hinduism, history and contemporary political issues.
It also implies incest, foot fetishism and genocide, though the whole thing is about the effects of war on everyone involved (POWs, families left at home, soldiers, etc...)

>> No.4120907

>>4120799
I don't know how you can ever argue with. You can't put rape, for example, in a movie for general audiences.

>> No.4120918

>>4118630
Of course. An enterprise of visual stimulus for escapists is better than Euripides in moral and aestethic sense

>> No.4120920

>>4120907
I didn't say that general audience films have unlimited content; I said nothing in the second quote follows.

>> No.4120926

>>4120905

So it's interesting for children?

>> No.4120929

>>4120819
>Too seriously
I don't even care about these movies, but I'm impatient; are you gonna use pretentious too.

I'm gonna feel sad, but I wanna see how you are threatened by people with enough ambition to try something with a story. Try to laugh to it. And fail. Not enterpreneur kind of ambition. We already know that funny family friendly printed money is best because you feel super happy watching a false reality where everything is "beautifully" the same again and again. That place where you can run to

>> No.4120930

>>4120926
Are you asking me or telling me? I don't see the relevance of your question to my post.

>> No.4120945 [DELETED] 

>>4120930

Well, you seemed to be disagreeing with the other guy who argued there was nothing particularly great about Avatar (and Samurai Jack). As far as I can tell, your argument is in favour of them exposing people to certain themes but surely that's going to be most relevant to children? Or perhaps adults who have never been exposed to any works which might touch on those subjects either.

I mean, just referencing them only goes so far right? It mostly helps to establish ideas; to put things out there for the future. I don't want to call the cartoon rubbish as I've never seen it but with the whole Pixar argument, the reason people shun congrats is because they think they have nothing relevant to say that they haven't experienced elsewhere. That's where the whole man-child argument comes from. It's supposed to represent a group of people who have done their very least to experience any of the so-called important ideas Pixar movies apparently run through.

Not that I'm trying to insinuate there's not more to appreciate in Pixar movies than the themes, but that's the central topic of conversation.

>> No.4120953

>>4120930

>>4120930

Asking. You seemed to be disagreeing with the other guy who argued there was nothing particularly great about Avatar (and Samurai Jack). As far as I can tell, your argument is in favour of them exposing people to certain themes but surely that's going to be most relevant to children? Other than that, perhaps adults who haven't experienced such themes before elsewhere.

I mean, just referencing them only goes so far right? It mostly helps to establish ideas; to put things out there for consideration. I don't want to call the cartoon rubbish as I've never seen it but as with the whole Pixar argument, the reason people shun congrats is because they think they have nothing relevant to say that they haven't experienced elsewhere.

That's where the whole man-child argument comes from and it's both sort of fair and unfair. It's supposed to represent a group of people who have done their very least to experience any of the so-called important ideas Pixar movies apparently run through and hence give them more credit than another would as a result

Not that I'm trying to insinuate there's not more to appreciate in Pixar movies or Avatar or whatever than the themes, but that's the central topic of conversation.

>> No.4120958

>>4120945
What I tried to do with my post was show that it is possible for things made for children to have at least some level of substance. I will not argue that Avatar was some modern masterpiece, but I do believe the writers were writing it almost as much for adults as children.
Regarding how the allusions to the various pieces of literature were done, I would say it was quite well done. Some are periodically referenced (Journey to the West) while others are used for a level of metatextuality. An example is the reference to Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now, which compared "firebending" to the Heart of Darkness Conrad wrote about. A child would never see the connection, but as an adult I see where the writers were coming from.

Again, I'm not saying Avatar was some great literary achievement, but completely dismissing it right off the bat because of its target demographic isn't fair.

>> No.4120964

A rejection and yearning for innocence. That's a man.

>> No.4120968

good to see /lit/ actually discussing something it has a legitimate understanding of.

>> No.4120967

>>4120958
Was meant for
>>4120953

>> No.4122455

>>4120734
It's not though.

>> No.4122479

Can't wait for the Dia de los Muertos based Pixar movie.