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/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Mon Sep 2 09:30:05 2013 No.4080728 [DELETED]

[Reply] [Original]

is it wrong that I'm enjoying this as a 23 year old? Everyone I talked to gave the same review "I enjoyed it when I was a teenager, but now I hate how much of a brat Holden is." I actually think he's personable and can relate to how critical he is of people who seem less "genuine" than others. I wouldn't use the word "phony" to describe everyone I dislike but aside from that I feel like I'm not that more mature than him.

Is this just some resonating teenage angst in me or does Holden actually appeal to a lot of adults?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 09:38:04 2013 No.4080739 Anyone who doesn't empathize with Holden is lying to you.

Anonymous Mon Sep 2 09:42:04 2013 No.4080748

I haven't read it since I was 13-14 so I can't really give you an informative response op.

I would suggest, however, that you just enjoy the experience for what it is and stop worrying whether or not this reflects on where you fall on the indefinable metre of 'maturity'.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 09:45:04 2013 No.4080755 I could never enjoy this. I couldn't even finish it. Everybody can get his personal holden claufield anywhere on the internets. There used to be forced labour camps. Well now there should be forced manliness camps for folks like him.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 09:47:04 2013 No.4080758 I'm always home. I'm uncool.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 10:05:04 2013 No.4080793 My illusion of Holden's intelligence and sophisticated mind was shattered by the meeting in the bar where he keeps on questioning his friend's sex life.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 10:06:04 2013 No.4080794 >>4080728 >is it wrong that I'm enjoying this as a 23 year old? No, it means you're a good reader and a sensitive person.

Anonymous Mon Sep 2 10:15:04 2013 No.4080816

I'm of the opinion that you actually enjoy it better as a young adult (22-30) than as a teen.
The theme developed in The Catcher can be pretty elusive for teenagers as they are too close to the character and to their own childhood. Most teens like the book, but they can't point exactly why.

It's easier to fully understand what Salinger is really talking about when you've reach some perspective. The protection of innocence is, in reality, mostly and adult concern.

That's why it blews my head that this book is considered a school book in USA.

Anonymous Mon Sep 2 10:16:05 2013 No.4080819

>>4080728
You aren't wrong at all for enjoying it. Actually, I think you can appreciate it better as a young adult than a teen in my opinion. I think a good deal of its popularity stems from the fact that it can remind people what it was like to be an angsty teenager.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 12:11:04 2013 No.4081077 >>4080728 It's funny, I'm reading it for the first time as a 21 year old. I also think Holden is a brat, but I'm enjoying the book the same. I wish I would have read it when I was 14, though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 12:22:04 2013 No.4081099 >>4081077 I'm so fucking glad I didn't read this shit as a teenager. I was insufferable enough as it was.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 12:23:04 2013 No.4081100 Nope, it's one of my favourite books.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 12:56:04 2013 No.4081171 >Everyone I talked to yeah. because normalfags always have incredibly discerning taste

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 14:26:04 2013 No.4081318 I read this as a teen and hated it, even though I did sympathize with Holden somewhat. Maybe I should read it again when I'm older?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 15:05:04 2013 No.4081398 File: 19 KB, 291x259, amazed.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4080755 the only rational person in this thread; IMO

Anonymous Mon Sep 2 15:17:05 2013 No.4081422

>>4080816
>It's easier to fully understand what Salinger is really talking about when you've reach some perspective. The protection of innocence is, in reality, mostly and adult concern.

This. In HS they ask you to read it because for some reason they think you'll want to finish the book because you can relate to Holden. What's funny are the kids in class who get a smug sense of satisfaction talking about how better they are than Holden.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 15:18:04 2013 No.4081426 >>4080755 Holden is more manly than 99% of the estrogeneration today. >>4080816 This sums everything up even though it's in broken English.

Anonymous Mon Sep 2 15:27:05 2013 No.4081455

Salinger thought it would be easy. He thought America was 'good,' and he would just go and defeat the bad guys. Nothing prepared him for the limbs that would rip from his platoon, the thick red blood of his friends that would stick to his eyeballs and blind him, the nights spent shaking and crying after sticking his finger into someone's bullet hole to prevent the bleeding only to have the guy die while his fingers were still inside his chest.

Salinger didn't just get PTSD when he returned, he had depression and a misanthropic outlook. He was traumatised by how such seemingly innocent children could turn into such adult monsters that were capable of burning women and children alive. He said 'the sound of a burning child's screams will never leave my ears.' He had to integrate back into society, but couldn't do it. He couldn't sit back and worry about celebrity culture, the charade of politics, or other distractions that seemed forever trivial to him. So he started writing.

His first piece was about a suicide. This, he said, was expressing his own desire to kill himself, but writing it down was a way of coping. He never managed to tackle his disenfranchisement and growing resentment towards society, so create the ultimate character to express himself; Holden Caulfield.

Holden was the child of innocence, free from the burden of seeing war atrocities, yet possessed the adult view that Salinger had. To the average, popular media-consuming, modern child, Holden's going to appear 'edgy' at a surface glance. But he really shouldn't to someone who understands that he's not supposed to be a normal child; he's one who carries the emotional baggage of someone who has seen too much horror and pain, yet has the child-like innocence to not understand where his outlook comes from. He's supposed to encapsulate two extremes, and does so perfectly.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 15:47:04 2013 No.4081518 >>4081455 That sounds neat. Except that his daughter says that he wasn't depressed about his time in the service, he was very proud and outgoing about it. She said that the war didn't damage him near as much as everyone claims it did.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 16:47:05 2013 No.4081673 File: 164 KB, 1280x720, salinger-upcoming-documentary-about-reclusive-author-j-d-salinger.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4081518 We'll just have to wait and see what the "movie" has to say about that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 17:25:04 2013 No.4081772 >>4081518 >wasn't depressed about his time in the service >tried to kill himself >wrote a bunch of stories about being depressed and wanting to kill yourself

Anonymous Mon Sep 2 21:48:05 2013 No.4082377

It's one of my favorite books ever. I read it first as a teen.

These days I see more of the flaws in Holden. When I was younger, I was just on his "Fuck the phonies" side and didn't look much past it. Now it's interesting to see how nearly everything in the books he claims to hate in other people, he is guilty of himself at some point in the story.

To me, these days, the point of it is more along the lines of "Yeah, a lot of people suck, but you just have to deal with it if you want to stay alive. Also, if you're a kid, you don't really know shit. Although it feels so much better to not know things sometimes."

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 22:08:05 2013 No.4082411 >>4080728 >is it wrong that I'm enjoying this as a 23 year old? Please leave.

>>	fairlady Mon Sep 2 22:48:06 2013 No.4082478 I read the book when I was 17. I understood Holden very well. I understood his will to protect his innocence. I cried my eyes out when I finished the book.. I felt like I lost the only person who understood me. .. Would re-read/10

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 22:56:05 2013 No.4082492 >>4082478 Is there any particular reason why you haven't re-read it, yet?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 23:08:05 2013 No.4082519 >>4080728 You know what's wrong? Asking people on an Internet board if you are allowed to enjoy something. Are you that fucking thick

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 23:10:05 2013 No.4082521 >>4080728 >asking 4chan for self-assurance

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 23:18:05 2013 No.4082537 >>4080748 This

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 2 23:36:06 2013 No.4082569 >>4082492 He got cold and had to use his copy as firewood.

Anonymous Tue Sep 3 00:52:06 2013 No.4082736

>>4080728
No, it means you've grown up. It's those silly amateur readers who think they have to identify with the protagonist who hate the book. Typically, you will have the teen who will fall in love with the book because he or she relates with Holden's struggles, then they get a little older and they find him obnoxious, but after that stage is over they are again able to appreciate the novel, though not for the same reasons they did initially. Some people never mature past stage two.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 3 01:21:05 2013 No.4082776 It's a terrible book

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 3 01:27:05 2013 No.4082787 Ignacius Reilly > Holden Caulfield

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 3 02:05:06 2013 No.4082844 >>4082787 Shinji Ikari > Holden Caulfield

PA Tue Sep 3 03:31:29 2013 No.4082978

>>4080728
Nah, man. It would only be a bad/unhealthy thing if you really resignated with Holden at that age. I loved the book at 14-18 because I had a big resignation with him... even as I was realizing he was hypocritical and immature. Now, at 21, I don't see much of myself in Holden. I still love the book as a work of art though, and do reread it every so often.

>>4081518
After reading Perfect Day for a Bananafish, and knowing he spent most of his adult life shut away from the public, I find that a little hard to believe.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 3 03:34:05 2013 No.4082980 part about the guy trying to finger his girl under the table while she's telling him about her friend that committed suicide is gold.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 3 03:34:05 2013 No.4082982 >>4082844 Stephen Dedalus > Holden Caulfield

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 3 03:44:05 2013 No.4082997 >brat I thought it was supposed to be the fucking point. When he got owned by a prostitute, you should understand just where he stood on the food chain. Pitiable and proud.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 3 06:28:05 2013 No.4083248 I still haven't read this book, probably should

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 3 06:59:05 2013 No.4083297 >>4082478 Same here

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 3 07:30:05 2013 No.4083342 >>4082980 Agree, also the scene in the hotel when he first gets to new york

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 3 08:28:06 2013 No.4083412 nope

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 3 22:36:10 2013 No.4085181 >>4080728 I find him to be about as annoying as the average teenager. It's just a stage we all go through, the having-all-the-answers-and-being-too-good-for-everything phase. Most of us grow out of that self-absorption after we hit our midtwenties.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 3 22:45:54 2013 No.4085208 >>4082569 I thought that was his copy of Kiplings 'If'

Anonymous Tue Sep 3 23:02:25 2013 No.4085246

It means that you recognize there is something else within the book besides "this guy is like me".

Everyone feels, this guy is like me, when they are 16, but if they ever read it again theyll enjoy the book besides of nostalgia googles, or because of its own literary merit, which there most definitely is.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 3 23:20:27 2013 No.4085281 love that book

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