/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.4068860]

what the fuck even is postmodernism

[Anonymous No.4068862]

It's a style and a feeling more than anything else, so it's hard to define.

You know the Youtube videos where someone loops a 5 second clip for 10 hours straight?

Pomo is like that.

[Anonymous No.4068875]

>>4068862
that's a terrible analogy

[Anonymous No.4068881]

>>4068875
OP, this is something pomo people tend to say about anyone that disagrees with them.

[Anonymous No.4068883]

It is the movement after Modernism. It is characterized by a lack of structure and experimentation.If you hear anyone say that Tristam Shandy or Don Quixote is post modernism, slap them.

[Anonymous No.4068893]

pastiche cosmopolitanism, cynical holism, frivolous reductionism

the abandonment of all tradition

[Anonymous No.4068902]

nothing is sacred, untouchable
everything is a commodity

[Anonymous No.4068922]

Postmodernism is when the worst field in the humanities decided that since everything they said was bullshit, everything everyone else says must be bullshit too

[Anonymous No.4068926]

>>4068922
philosophy gang 2k13 till i die

[Anonymous No.4068930]

>>4068926
I meant sociology.

[Anonymous No.4068953]

There was a guy who claimed that he found evidence of the wtc collapse in The Bible. He was laughed at and considered a nutbag by many. However if you're a postmodernist dude you'll know that what he did was perfectly acceptable.

[Anonymous No.4068957]

Everything sucks, everything is nonsense, so let's just fuck around with suckish nonsense, basically.

[Anonymous No.4068958]

postmodernism = "meta" wankery

that's really it. It's cute the first time you see it but isn't really shit after a while.

[Anonymous No.4068963]

The clearest explanation I've seen is that postmodernism rejects all previous "framing narratives" placed over history and humanity, and distrusts any attempt to structure or systemize reality in a similar way. It also has a lot to do with the multiplicity of all things and pluralism (not necessarily synonymous with relativism, but generally speaking it is).

[Anonymous No.4068966]

who cares, we're in post-postmodernism now

[Anonymous No.4068969]

It's the theoretical peak of cultural self-consciousness as it applies to western civilization. That's it.

[Anonymous No.4068971]

>>4068963
this.
Its the reaction to the utter failure of every big system of belief in the modern era

[Anonymous No.4068972]

>>4068969
Hegel, much?

[Anonymous No.4068974]

PoMo is attempting to create art based upon existing expectations of the given [piece/genre/medium] of said "art" (expectations arguably fostered by the mass consumption of media).

Given any genre/medium/point of view, art (let's call it, "the product"), is being crafted by someone in society day after day. It follows form. The creator "knows" how the product should function to be accepted as "good".

"It" (the product) isn't new (e.g. "modern", "better", "the next best radio hit",), yet there is something to "it" that seems refreshingly new and resonant.d

Like developers chasing the top spot of the App store by cloning Angry Birds, or a Lady GaGa song, "products" continue to be generated day by day, adhering to public expectation by "improving" constantly, in a cultural and philosphical "game" of sorts.

This creates a mountain of expectation on products of a given genre. Despite improving or differentiating on a superficial level, the idea of the genre or the medium never changes. PoMo homos attempt to subvert the entire premise of "the game" by promoting products that play by different rules, in a different ballpark, on a different planet.

Post-modernism rejects the premises of existing genres/mediums the general public currently accepts; it considers the Modernist movement as progressing forward infinitely in one direction without looking left or right or up or down. The current cultural "meta" is the product of this same rebellion against mainstream culture which has defined the artistic movement since the Renaissance, but now we've gotten too self aware for our own good ).

PoMo products intentionally incorporate what could be considered fundamental flaws or overtly earnest characteristics of the product's medium, in hopes of cutting through consumers' perception of not only the product, and instead focusing on their expectations about the product, as a concept, and what that means about them (the consumer) as a person, and the society they have been crafted by.

The goal seems to be to promote lateral thinking about various "meta" conceptions about life and society in hopes of pushing culture forward. Instead, all it really does is circle-jerk and avoid criticism by claiming any failure as intentional fallacy.

Or maybe this is just the trend of all art, but we specifically call art from 19X0's onwards "post modern"

All I know is, Infinite Jest was a pretty funny book

[Anonymous No.4068975]

>>4068972
No, I'm just providing as elementary a definition as possible.

[Anonymous No.4068976]

>>4068971
>Christianity
>utter failure

lol

[Anonymous No.4068981]

>>4068974
Are Tim and Eric more Post-Modern or Meta-Modern

[Anonymous No.4068982]

>>4068976
... Yes?

[Anonymous No.4068985]

>>4068982
Stop using words you don't know.

[Anonymous No.4068991]

>>4068985
Christianity is an utter failure, not in the popularity sense, but in the moral and valuable sense. And if you think postmodernism's success standard is about popularity, then just get out of the conversation.

[Anonymous No.4068994]

>>4068985
what words? Yes?

[Anonymous No.4068996]

>>4068981


They're heavily influenced by PoMo, and could be argued as fathers of MeMo


What happens when you go beyond the premise of going beyond the premise of a medium? Where is our mass consumption and reflection of culture leading us?

Hmmmmmm

[Anonymous No.4069000]

>>4068991
>Failure
Key words have not been adequately defined yet.

[Anonymous No.4069002]

>>4068991
Well if it's lasted for so long it can't be a failure. "Real" postmodernism is just starting to begin, though.

[Anonymous No.4069008]

>>4069000
I gave an adequate explanation, actually. The Bible is a moral failure, and a failure in terms of societal-use-value. Failure meaning not achieving desirable results for a certain purpose.

>>4069002
It lasted when it was useful. It's trying to implement it in modern society that causes its failure.

[Anonymous No.4069009]

>>4069000
'adequate' has not been defined yet.

[Anonymous No.4069016]

>>4069008
You're a human failure. Religious scriptures do not have finite goals.

[Anonymous No.4069017]

since we are on defining concepts Ive bought a book on Critical theory and halfway through it I realized that there were some fundamental questions I stikl hadnt got:
What IS critical theory? Is it necessairly left-winged?
What is dialetics?
What is structuralism?
Ive tried the wikipedia articles and others, but I stikl cant get it
Also im on my phone and cant make my own thread for this

[Anonymous No.4069022]

>>4069016
What are you talking about? Of course the goal is finite. It was to establish a society, which it did, but what it could not account for was technological advancement and scientific discovery. After we exceeded the expected boundaries of Christianity, it became obsolete. And if you think the goal is infinite, then it's a even bigger failure because we couldn't reasonably stop human advancement at Christianity's finish line.

[Anonymous No.4069027]

>>4068991

Millions of Christians use Christianity to console themselves in an ocean of chaos every day.

Regardless of what extremist bible-thumping bastards abusing the same religion may say or do, mothers, fathers, and individuals use Christianity as a guide.

These people are thinkers, builders, lovers who succeed and breed kindness and respect in their environments, then fuck like rabbits and pass their beliefs onto their children (probably many of you).

Every religion possesses these types of followers; the average Muslim/Hindu/Jew/Zoroastrian is probably as humble and virtuous as the average Christian (assuming the individual hasn't gotten their hands on too much money or power; obviously this will tend to make one disregard a belief system, because, c'mon, bandzamakedance).

Meanwhile
>log onto internet
>equip le fedora
>Christianity is a failure

[Anonymous No.4069028]

>>4068996
What do you mean by meta-modernism and what do you consider Tim & Eric to be in relation to postmodern art (let's say, specifically pomo lit, architecture or film)?

[Anonymous No.4069031]

>>4069022
Sperg harder

[Anonymous No.4069036]

>>4069022
>the one goal of Christianity was to establish a society
oh man

[Anonymous No.4069038]

>>4069027
That doesn't make the system itself a success. Most of your "average Christians" haven't even read the book they claim to believe in, which is one of the reasons why irreligiousness is on the rise. Nobody actually needs Christianity. They just pretend there's a "higher power" keeping an eye on them and let their regular conscience do the rest. Most average Christians can't even name the ten commandments, much less be aware that there's more than one set. So, how is it not a failure if nobody actually follows it, and if those that do (fundamentalists, extremists, etc.) are considered horrendous people?

[Anonymous No.4069039]

>>4069038
Because Jesus is coming to save the day, duh.

[Anonymous No.4069049]

>>4069038
>They just pretend there's a "higher power" keeping an eye on them and let their regular conscience do the rest.

Isn't that the essential message of the bible in the first place?...

[Anonymous No.4069050]

>>4069049
No, and clearly you haven't read it either.

[Anonymous No.4069053]

>>4069050
I have read it, and with likely more depth than you ever have.

[Anonymous No.4069055]

>>4069053
Doubtful, it's a pretty big part of what I do. And if you came to such a reductionist conclusion about the point of God, then your depth must be about three feet.

[Anonymous No.4069058]

>>4069055
It's okay, you're clearly just a filthy heathen.

[Anonymous No.4069060]

>>4069058
Absolutely, but not my point.

[Anonymous No.4069070]

>>4069028
>>4069028

I think "metamodernism" (has a wikipedia entry but not the most canonized term in the world...) uses attempts at modernism (and post-modernism) as a jump-off point to explore why these given pieces of commercialism invoke emotion, especially when they fail at whatever the consumer can imply they were trying to achieve (T&E usually explores discomfort at failure or empathetic humiliation). T&E explore "meta" themes which one could only find humor in if one was aware of the goals the piece of art (more generally, "human interaction") was attempting to achieve in the first place. I feel like this is the effect of post-modernism on itself, "post-modernism squared".

Consider this:
The average Christmas Special in the US is about selling a series of virtues (a product), but every "christmas special" (from charlie brown to whatever shit is on nickelodeon on 12/23 this year) is itself a product.

You cannot "give away" a TV Christmas Special because it is effectively an advertisement for consumerism, which subverts a form of charity that a Protestant-based society would inherently value on, say, Christmas.

The Tim and Eric Chrimbus Special is a DVD special whose entire content is explicitly stated as intended to "sell the Tim and Eric Chrimbus Special DVD". Not only is the Chrimbus special and Ad for itself, the "ad" is targeted at store owners, as if a best buy regional manager would view it, and then subsequently sell it in his store. Which is exactly what any other Christmas special is really attempting to do anyway, so you can go out and buy it and give it to someone on Christmas.

I believe this is Meta Modernist art.

A Post Modernist christmas special something like It's a Wonderful Life perhaps. But what the hell do I know?

[Anonymous No.4069078]

Is post-modernist pantheist trying to live in society is the best kind of being post-modernist?

[Anonymous No.4069083]

>>4069078
More like an inter-faith polytheist who believes that all gods' wills should be disregarded.

[Alex Radford No.4069090]

It's something older people came up with because they thought we'd have flying cars by now.

[Anonymous No.4069091]

>>4069070


>But what the hell do I know?

More than me. What should I read to wrap my mind around modernism, post-modernism, and if it's out there, meta-modernism?

[Anonymous No.4069096]

>>4069070
usually don't post on /lit/ but I must give props to another fellow who enjoys objective analysis.

T&E indeed must be taken, as all art is, in the context of the culture which created it, and in that context, it is very original, and all originality pushes the envelope in a society.

[Anonymous No.4069097]

>>4069070
I feel like it would just be postmodern. You've to understand that postmodernism as a philosophy, postmodern as a period, postmodern as a condition or state of mind, and postmodern as a categorization within various mediums all hold their own distinct meaning. Modernism might've escaped this confusion with its insistence on the manifesto, in effect, self-categorization. What would you consider a movie made with postmodern sensibilities? Well, at its base, probably an acute awareness of the logic of cinema, its place as a film, the expectations of its audience, perhaps most succinctly: the space it occupies. I think the only thing that changes with Tim & Eric's basic paradigm is their audience, one who's presumably grown up on the once-avant-garde-but-now-more-or-less-assilimated-postmodern film of, say, Godard, Lynch, Haneke, Tarantino, Greenaway. The christmas special you're describing still seems to have same basic intentions of any other postmodern mindset, Tim and Eric still want to destabilize their audience, "one-over" their expectations, the only thing is they no longer expect a modern-minded product but a postmodern-minded one. That doesn't necessarily announce a new stage of postmodernism, that we've entered a new era of art or thought, it's really not much different than DFW's attempt to ridicule his own postmodern predecessors, in thoroughly postmodern style. Does it attempt to criticize or step beyond "postmodern literature," as a so-called movement involving specific writers during a specific timeframe? Maybe, but that doesn't suggest Infinite Jest itself could not be aptly read through the lens of postmodern literary theory, or as the reasonable response to a postmodern state of culture.

[Anonymous No.4069099]

>>4069097
>Tim and Eric still want to destabilize their audience, "one-over" their expectations, the only thing is they no longer expect a modern-minded product but a postmodern-minded one.

Here I meant to say that the audience comes into Tim & Eric expecting a postmodern product, rather than a modernist product. And so, Tim & Eric responds, adaptively.

[Anonymous No.4069109]

>>4069091
Like understanding most self-aware "isms", reading the basic humanitarian "western masterpieces" touted around in liberal arts educationshelp (ie from Homer to Shakespeare to Melville to Salinger). Regardless of the content, because a large number of society are consuming a piece of art, members of that society move on to create content and advertisements for everyone else with elements based in these widely-distributed works. See, "The Bible"

Because this is a relatively large number of books (which is inclusive of most of what /lit/ says you must read to not be a pleb) I recommend titles like The Stranger, The Great Gatsby alongside newschool muu muu house bullshit like Eee Eeeee Eeee (hi haters)

Observe what people around you reject in their media & pop culture, then dissect it, and think of themes within it that go against what people expect from their literature/music/television/celebrities

It isn't about what you are consuming, it is the mindset you are using to evaluate it. This applies to all mediums of art.

Spiral out

[Anonymous No.4069120]

>>4069091
Modernism and postmodernism are periods of time in western culture. If you want to understand modernism, study the history, culture and art of the period around the late 19th century to the early 20th century. If you want to understand postmodernism, study the history, culture and art of, arguably, the mid 20th century to, arguably, this very day. Maybe look online to get the syllabus for certain relevant Yale or Harvard or what have you freshmen courses, or just drop some things into Amazon, pro-tip: try the non-fiction.

[Anonymous No.4069122]

>>4069017
>What IS critical theory?
Everything is a lie, and should be analysed all over and criticized for the HECK of criticizing it, until we figure out wether it is actually a lie or we are just being tinfoil about it. Which causes a contradiction, because from the word go we were saying everything was a lie, so something was, at least partly true

>Is it necessairly left-winged?
It is LEFT WING thought in a nutshell, but in a way that is hilariously, well, evil to left wingers

Its basically the ultimate validation of Evolution being a tool of the 'man' to enslave the fuck out of them to individualism at the very end

>What is dialetics?
The shit Engel started, its literally the same canned philosophical babble of usual, called with a term

Much like how capitalism was a thing before Marx began calling it capitalism

>What is structuralism?
Essentially, everything you can asign a label to

See a chair? That's a structure; have a sexuality? That's a structure; got herpes? That's a structure... Have an identity? That's a structure, and so on

Its something that came out a very disturbed mind, as you may realize, but, yeah, it got hold in the field of psychology, because said people are by nature, uh, less common sense inclined

Oh and common sense is also a structure...

>Ive tried the wikipedia articles and others, but I stikl cant get it
Its alright, for critical thinkers to get it as well would be the same as dividing by zero

For further information see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem

>Also im on my phone and cant make my own thread for this
Faggot

[Anonymous No.4069125]

Oh and, if you thought Critical Theory was 2STRUCTURALISTANDPROTHEMAN4YOU see Analytical theory and steel yourself for a trip as LSD driven as it gets

[Anonymous No.4069127]

http://www.electriccereal.com/what-is-postmodernism/

In the postmodern novel, truth is nonexistent–or at least unknowable.

Genre rules are playthings, adhered to with zealous abandon or thrown away in fits of madness.

Low art rises above high art because their products and images contain more meaning, more power and destruction with every swing, since the mainstream culture has a stronger familiarity with new genres than with classical forms.

Above all, there is a self-awareness that never let’s the reader forget that he is being manipulated, that story is an artifice.

[Anonymous No.4069128]

>>4069120
There's also this
http://www.amazon.com/Modernism-A-Very-Short-Introduction/dp/0192804413/ref=pd_cp_b_0

I haven't read this, but this series (Oxford's Very Short Introductions) has been fairly reliable (up until the stuff from the last 2 years, maybe) for concise & accessible summaries coming from learned figures. I'm sure it'll give you a foundation stable enough to start out from.

[Anonymous No.4069130]

Also yes, it means that if you believe in redistribution you are hilariously deranged

Even in the most left wing pipe dream of all pipe dreams, the world is still so insanely economically right wing that even the most moderate of all marxists would take a shotgun mouthwash

[Anonymous No.4069134]

That unfortunately, leaves most of mankind that is in some way or form pro-mankind in the shooting range, or more precisely all

Because, man the fuck up already, get a job and then get a business of your own, because you are fucked beyond recovery otherwise

[Anonymous No.4069138]

>>4069097

Is Napolean Dynamite post-modernist? metamodernist? It seemed made to shift expectations of a modernist audience to post-modernist. Also made to sell "Vote for Pedro" shirts


I agree about T&E's reaction to audiences expecting a post-modern mindset and reacting by delivering their disorienting comedy.


Is the search for "authenticity" in a product purely a post-modernist concept?

[Anonymous No.4069140]

>>4069127
Every narrator is an untrustable narrator as well, never forget that, sometimes the narrator will break the third wall too and do all kinds of trippy shit as well

There's many themes explored that always somehow open into new and ever trippier themes that kind of remind one of something out of Lovecraft's mythos

[Anonymous No.4069142]

I like this thread

[Anonymous No.4069143]

>>4069142
Its a structure, you evil threadarchist, stop right there you criminal scum

[Anonymous No.4069157]

>>4069140

I'm reading Dead Souls right now, and Gogol breaks the wall in a way that reminds me that what gets called postmodern a lot of times had already existed.

Which is to call doubt on postmodernism as a style, but just to say that a style doesn't have to be known for its innovations.

[Anonymous No.4069161]

>>4069157

*Which isn't to call doubt

[Anonymous No.4069164]

>>4069157
Yep, its just that people of low worth began taking it up and making it mainstream, as per usual

Just like how Marx picked up some of Plato's shit and then began pretending he was an expert in the matter

Or how humanists began picking christianity, platonism, taoism, buddhism and every religion ever made, and then began thinking they knew a shit about morality

But its all cool, sooner or later, people begins taking some interest in the older and prior stuff and building upon it, rather than just staying with the plagiarized and fagged up stuff

After all, we are running around in something better than Newtonian physics already, right? We've expanded upon them a lot, in the other areas... we've got plenty of work to do, across all society, I would say

[Anonymous No.4069167]

>>4069138
I don't know, I've not seen it. I've assumed it was just appropriating and severely diluting the hip postmodern (bohemian?) "avant-garde" of film. I think metamodernist is a redundant term, self-awareness of self-awareness is still self-awareness. Anyway, film adopted "postmodernism" as a prominent "mode" only, relatively arguably, very recently (in comparison to philosophy or architecture). I think its a little quick to start naming every new development off as a grand response to, maybe an agent freeing the world from, postmodernism. Of course every individual work or creator will respond to whatever contemporary condition somewhat uniquely, that doesn't mean you need to dub it a movement or revolutionary new style.

>Is the search for "authenticity" in a product purely a post-modernist concept?
You could probably date it back to Socrates.

[Anonymous No.4069177]

>>4068883
And modernism fucking sucks. It is a fucking travesty that Platon or Montaigne reads better than the "liberated" modernist prose or the "traditional, conservative" prose of the 1800s. Modernism isn't an ideology that happened to have violent adherents. It is an ideology of violence. Period. We are going to solve every problem for good here and now.

Now, this is something of a paradox. Because until the shit hit the fan with the advent of the modernistic totalitarianism, the 1700-1800s was less violent societies than the 1600s and earlier. One could say that from the fall of Western Rome to the 1700s-ish, western society was martial.

[Anonymous No.4069193]

>>4069177
>One could say that from the fall of Western Rome to the 1700s-ish, western society was martial.
>1800's to now has been less martial
Wut, we've passed all the violence onto intellectual insult exchanges and we literally take bets on how many teeth Chomsky will beat out of Zizek's face this week, how the hell has society and in particular its most intellectual wing become more 'peaceful' ever since?

If anything, we've taken all of our pent up anger and put it in the language, rather than take it out through the same methods of the past

We've made language into a tool for warfare unlike anything seen in the past of human history, and we've become twice as much of a bunch of intolerant bigots our ancestors were, if those that came before heard even half of the swear words we use, they would faint, and that includes the mongols

Anti-structuralism is a reaction, much like modernism was a reaction of its time, and we are flooding ourselves in dialectical reactions all day everyday until everyone vents their asses off

[Anonymous No.4069238]

>>4069193
The thing is that you can have both a peaceful society and a public discourse without pent-up and not so pent-up anger.

And it's interesting that when male journalists are at least shedding some of the older sensationalism, it's contemporary female journalists that takes up the torch of pure nastiness.

[Anonymous No.4069401]

>>4069164
>humanists began picking ... and every religion ever made, and then began thinking they knew a shit about morality

Lol. I get it, humanists' morality comes from sky fairies, as you imply. Like saying eggs come from before the chicken. But that doesn't mean cavemen and african tribes can't discover the fact that killing babies is detrimental to the group without sky fairies. One of many reasons, besides people being superstitious, that so many religions exist is because in all those eras, morality is independently discovered (or plagiarized, see abrahamic religions), and then promoted by some people.
But you don't need a PhD to figure out nowadays morality is about whatever behavior that benefits society and fits our aesthetics most. Debatable are the contents, but not the main idea.

> how Marx picked up some of Plato's shit and then began pretending he was an expert in the matter
Marx had more crazy ideas than Plato ever had. Though perhaps any talk about economics requires one to be arrogant, so the criticism is universal.

>plagiarized and fagged up stuff
This seems to be your running thesis eh? People plagiarizing and fagging things up. Things like Christmas and culture. Consider a job as a comedian.

[Anonymous No.4069417]

>>4069401
Spiritually, the fulfillment is always in the wish, the calming of the concern in the concern, just as God is even in the sorrowful longing that is the lack of him. Whatever good comes from dogmatic humanism comes not from within but outside and above it.

>>4069238
also this is two hours old or whatever but are there really that "nasty" of female journalists or is this more tired sexism
I can't really think of anyone as nasty as Rush Limbaugh and please don't say Nancy Grace is a journalist or even a woman

[Anonymous No.4069433]

>>4069417
>God is even in the sorrowful longing that is the lack of him
Huh? Which god from which religion is this, so I don't accidentally blaspheme? Is this a troll or do religious people talk like this, arrogantly assuming I know where they're from?

[Anonymous No.4069444]

>>4069433
I'm not going to fuck with Kierkegaard's quotes by adding in "[the Christian] God" all the time
it's from when he discusses Diogenes' lamp I think but that's a little outside the point

[Anonymous No.4069450]

this retarded thread was posted like 7 hours ago and now 70 posts and 9 image replies omitted. fuck all of you

[Anonymous No.4069984]

>>4069122
Well I went to sleep but thanks.
Faggot

[Anonymous No.4070164]

T̴̨̖̭̰͖͙͇̈̊̿͑ͦ̒̂͋̓͞ơ̗̳̺̇ͨ̐͑̽̒ͮ͑̉ͬ̉̓͒́͡ ̦̳͈̭͂̍̓͟i̶̛̫̹̥͈̔̓͌͑̂ņ̵̈́̑ͤ̎̏̀ͤ̑̽ͩͫ̓ͦͮ͏̶͏̬͈͓̯̘v̨̹̺͖̰̹̬̎͆̊͌͜͠͞oͦͪͪ̑̍̈̔̇͗ͧͦͭͮ҉̪͕͈͓͜͟k̶̏ͭͪ́̄͐̃̾ͪͦ̈́̈҉̶͉̰̤̮e̸̡͎̗̮͍͈̙͈͉̫̭̔̿͋͐̈̇̅̑̈̎̎ ̶͍͎̞͖̳̙̦͍̞̪̤̝͙̼̈́ͩ̿̃̈́̓͌́͡t̟̙̥͎͖̫̹̘̦͕̭̣̙͎̟͕͓͔̊̓̃̆ͫͮ͒͊͆̅͘͘͜h̨̤̺̮̜͖̟̻̹̘̣͉ͤ̽ͨ̏̔̒̎ͮ͗̀͆͊̓ͦ̄̈́͜͢͡͞e̥͙̥̭ͦͥ̋͐̅́ͧͫ̓̏͢ ̡̯͎̦͉̮̹̬̺̬͎̟̭̟̠͓̠̟͙ͩͪ͋̈́͋ͥͧ̓̆͊ͦͦ̀͢͡h̡͓͙̯̺̬̣̍̎͋̍͛̏͑ͯ̊̊̾ͫͬ̓̎ͨ͂̀͘i̡̨̛̼̩̟͓̯̪̮̇̑̿̽̑̋̋͢͡v̷̴̧͍͎͎͎̖̱̤̥̬̱̩̎̏̉̍ͫ̃͒̐͋̾̕͟ͅͅe̹̙̼̰̐ͧ̈͛́̒̓̎̔̽͋̄̈͑͌̉ͬ͑͌͢͟-̡͚̟͚͖̿͆̑̾͗͆ͯ̏̀͝͝m̶̨̯͚̥̱͙͎̯͕̳̞̫͍̩̪̉͑̆ͯͫ̈́̅̾́̀͐ͧ̎̅̂͐̓i̧̺̖͇̣̟̫͈̜͖̝ͪͯ͐͑̍́͌ͮ̈́͂ͬ̂̅̕͟͞n̢̧̛̞͓̤͍̘͍͙̪̋̉ͮͪ̾̿ͣ͋ͣ̚͝d̷ͤ̄͂̒͊̑̆͛ͤ͌͑̊͌̈́̒̆҉̛͍̯̜̠̤͙̙̮͙͇͉̬̱̘͖̩̟͈̕͡ ̴̮̼͓̻̟͕̺͉̠̦̣̤͌̅̑̈́ͪͬ̈́̔͊ͨ͠͝ṛ̸̞͚̲̲̙̮̼̰͈͖̟̮̲̩̣̼͙̑ͭͯͥ̏ͣͧ̔͌͋̎͒͌̍̉ͫ̉͌̚͘͢ë̸͚̘̻̹̹̼̺̙͙̜̫̃͛̽͒ͥ͐͌ͣ̌́̈̚͝͝p̨͋̀ͬ̉͐̈ͤͭ̈́̆ͯ̔̌̄͋̀҉͖̰̱r̢̰̯̥̩̬̳̗̗̪͈̣͖̹̤̟ͮ̓̽̄ͯ͒̃̽͒̐̀ͯ̀̚e̛̙̫̭̬̠͊ͤͭ̿̓̂ͯ̋̄ͬ̐̀ͨͩ̂̕̕͝s͌͊͆ͬ͗͆ͦ͗̌͂ͧͤ̃͞҉̩͙̠̯͖̗̝͙͉̯͔̱̯̘̠̱͘͟e̹͖͕̫͖͎̣̪̹̱͋͑͂͊͑̏̔͆ͨ̚͡ǹ͖̗̼̜̝͔͓̦̬̺̖̥̘͇̦̬͐̇̓ͫ̓̿̔̄ͯ̅̈́͂ͪ̌͆͒́̚͢͢ͅͅt̷̻̯̞̣̗̺̮͙͚̣̗̺̼͕̖̦̞̭̠͂̉ͫ͗ͦ͌̕͜ȉ̻͎̪̦̟̣͇̼̪̣͚̥͖̮ͬͨͬͬ͞n̨̜̟̲̱͓̘̩̼̽̄̽̔̇̉̊͂͟͢͟g̨̢̺̠̰̩̘̤͔̻̦̖̝̤͉̰̈͂͌̾̀ ̫͖͕͈͔̼̰̼͙͎͎̻̗̄̓̌͂͋ͧͬ̊͆̎̌̍̏̍̕c̨̭͖͕͖̜͉̾͆ͩ͆ͧ̾ͤ̉̀̚ͅh̢̯̹̯̘͔̖̟̳̩̲͓͈ͦͫ̊́̃͢ả̢̗͇̘ͨͮ͆ͧ͒͆̌͆ͯ̉̉͋ͣ͆̿̑̀̕͢o̡̤͍̯̘̙͚̳̣͚̩̪̎͑̎͊̀̌̐̾̃͢͞͞s̛̳̥̳̭̣̭̻͍͖ͥ͒ͮ͌̀ͩ̎́.͋ͬ̇͑͑̄͊͏̢̩̭̹̭̰͉̥͉̰̞̭̪͓͇
̷̪̺̼͙̤̖̞ͨ̆̄̔ͣ͛ͬͫ͂ͮ͟͡I̎ͩͯ͌̉͗͋̐̈́̈ͤ̍ͬ͋̽̆̒̄͞͏̦̫͎̫͖̜̫͕̩̙͓͎̤̣̩̩ͅn̜̬͈͖͔̩̖̙͚̺͈̘̞̬ͮͩ̋̉̃͑ͤͩͦ̾̋̎̌̇ͨ͢͡͝͠v̡̓̇̒҉̪̼̘͕͇͕̟̰̼̜̥ơ̤̝̭̮̜̪̲̭̘͉͙̰̺̭ͤͪ̌̆̄̿͛̍k̛͈̹̩̣̥̩͚̙͐̂ͫͭ͂̑͢ͅͅi̴̷͕̠̝͚̯̗͐̒̿ͮ͛ͩ̈́͌̓ͥͨ̏̉ͥ̾͘͢͜n̶̠̮̖̫͔͓͉̰̫͈̹̬̈́̂̈͑̾̋̐̏̑ͧ̓̎ͫ̀̈̽ͭ͡g̼̞̪̻̬̩̬̜͚̫͉̻̭̻̩ͧͮͫ͊̈̆̐̒ͤͧͯ͆ͥ͂͋̕͠ ̷̣̗̼͕͉̯̙̱̙͇̹̣ͧͣ͒̅͞͠t̛̂̌̃̾́ͦ͜͏̵̬͙͖͈̕h̟̲͖͙̬̘͇̳̘͌̑̿ͩͤͭ̂ͫ̐̽͗́͐͜ȩ̛̦͓̟̙̝̯͋ͩͧ̂̌ͩ̉̚ ̓̾̏ͤ̎ͧ̍ͯ́͘͢͏̜͢f̟̤̤̤̟̮̰̲̰͚̭ͮ̃̊ͭͩ̒ͧ̾̏̋ͫ́͠ ̶̧̗͕̤̮̟̍͋̋ͯ͟͜͢c̷̷̸̥͇̪̦̜̯̈̄̀ͩͨ̌ͮ͠h̷̔͗̀͌̃ͫͮ̄ͭ͌ͧ҉͔͚͙̥̫͟


test

[Anonymous No.4070193]

nothing is true. everything is permitted.

[Anonymous No.4070203]

>>4068862
if that's how you explain it you wouldn't know pomo if it was sucking your third nipple

[Anonymous No.4070220]

"When it becomes possible for a people to describe as ‘postmodern’ the décor of a room, the design of a building, the diegesis of a film, the construction of a record, or a ‘scratch’ video, a television commercial, or an arts documentary, or the ‘intertextual’ relations between them, the layout of a page in a fashion magazine or critical journal, an anti-teleological tendency within epistemology, the attack on the ‘metaphysics of presence’, a general attenuation of feeling, the collective chagrin and morbid projections of a post-War generation of baby boomers confronting disillusioned middle-age, the ‘predicament’ of reflexivity, a group of rhetorical tropes, a proliferation of surfaces, a new phase in commodity fetishism, a fascination for images, codes and styles, a process of cultural, political or existential fragmentation and/or crisis, the ‘de-centring’ of the subject, an ‘incredulity towards metanarratives’, the replacement of unitary power axes by a plurality of power/discourse formations, the ‘implosion of meaning’, the collapse of cultural hierarchies, the dread engendered by the threat of nuclear self-destruction, the decline of the university, the functioning and effects of the new miniaturised technologies, broad societal and economic shifts into a ‘media’, ‘consumer’ or ‘multinational’ phase, a sense (depending on who you read) of ‘placelessness’ or the abandonment of placelessness (‘critical regionalism’) or (even) a generalised substitution of spatial for temporal coordinates - when it becomes possible to describe all these things as ‘Postmodern’ (or more simply using a current abbreviation as ‘post’ or ‘very post’) then it’s clear we are in the presence of a buzzword."
-Dick Hebdige

[op No.4070247]

>>4070193
Fuck off Stirner

[Anonymous No.4070249]

>>4070193
>nothing is permitted

Do you even Lacan?

[Anonymous No.4070255]

>>4070249
he said everything is permitted

[Anonymous No.4070258]

>>4070255
Yeah, I was drawing the opposite conclusion.
Shouldn't have greentexted it.

I apologize, hope I haven't caused too much distress

[Anonymous No.4070262]

>yfw /lit/ can't define pomo
It's basically modernism with irony and experimentation

[Anonymous No.4070264]

>>4070262
>mfw you don't recognize that modernism is ironic and experiemental

[Anonymous No.4070269]

>>4070264
>yfw I was being ironic

[Anonymous No.4070271]

>>4070269
2pomo4me

[Anonymous No.4070277]

>>4070271
You just got pomo'd

[Anonymous No.4070314]

>>4070193
okay smerdyakov

[Anonymous No.4070494]

>>4069009
go read wittgenstein, schmuckface.

[Anonymous No.4070577]

>>4068860

The death knells of our civilisation.

[Anonymous No.4070621]

>>4070193

apology of poor english.
when were you when fyodor die?
i was at home doing patricide because everything is permitted.
grigory yell 'parricide!'
'no'.

[Anonymous No.4070631]

>>4069070
>A Post Modernist christmas special something like It's a Wonderful Life perhaps. But what the hell do I know?
Isn't It's a Wonderful Life more a modern tradition than anything else?

[Anonymous No.4070638]

>>4069417
>also this is two hours old or whatever but are there really that "nasty" of female journalists or is this more tired sexism
>I can't really think of anyone as nasty as Rush Limbaugh and please don't say Nancy Grace is a journalist or even a woman

Just writing from my perspective in Sweden. I've noticed that older male and younger female journalists - in general - are nastier than the rest. The difference is that the older males knows that they are right.

That is not to say that all unnasty are good. But you can be an arrogant and ignorant slob without being nasty.

[Anonymous No.4070654]

>>4070220
but that's stupid. Its not a buzzword simply because its not limited to one genre or field?

[Anonymous No.4070688]

>>4070654

it means to say that when the word postmodern comes to be used like the word art deco for example, it will lose its meaning

welcome to pomo

[Anonymous No.4070708]

>>4070688
Except art deco has meaning, there's a very clear iconic style associated with art deco.

[Anonymous No.4070718]

>>4070708

Holy shit, are you thick or what. Yes, art deco has a meaning, and so does pomo, but the meaning of pomo is not to be used as you would use the words realism, modernism, naturalism, and so when we begin to use it in such a method, the day when you look on a building and say it's clear 20th century pomo, pomo becomes a buzzword. Call it pretentious if you will, but it is what it is.

[Anonymous No.4070722]

>>4070708
I'm not paying attention to this argument, I just want to say I fucking love Art Deco.

[Anonymous No.4070726]

>>4070722

Anyone who doesn't clearly hates beauty.

[Anonymous No.4070736]

here's a part of an essay on postmodern art from a book

"Used broadly, as it often is, the term 'postmodernism' is quite susceptible to critique as illogical and over-ambitious. In the highly influential body of theory that has come from artists and critics who identify with postmodernism, however the term has acquired a more specific set of meanings, revolving around terms like signification, originality, appropriation, authorship, deconstruction, discourse and ideology. Put as simply as possible, postmodernism challenges the modernist certainty about the autonomy of art. Postmodernists see representation and reality as overlapping, because conventions of representation or language ('signification') are learned and internalized so that we experience them as real. Especially in an age when television and the other mass media play such a significant role in creating human consciousness, what we perceive as real is revealed to be always present in and filtered through representation. The term 'simulacrum' -- drawn from the writings of the French philosopher Jean Baudrillard -- is often used to signify this idea of representation as reality. For the postmodernist, then, nothing we can do or say is truly 'original', for our thoughts are constructed from our experience of a lifetime of representation, so it is naive to image in work's author inventing its forms or controlling its meaning. Instead of pretending to an authoritative originality, postmodernism concentrates on the way images and symbols ('signifiers') shift or lose their meaning when put in different contexts ('appropriated'), revealing ('deconstructing') the processes by which meaning is constructed. And because no set of signifiers, from art to advertising, is original, all are implicated in the ideologies (themselves patterns of language or representation, hence, 'discourses') of the cultures that produce and/or interpret them."

[Anonymous No.4070741]

>>4070722
Everyone loves art deco, except everyone loves art deco but in a slightly distanced way. I mean if you're building an art deco home, you're a terrible try hard, but at the same time you can't help but admire the art deco skyscrapers and bric a brac .

>>4070718
Listen i'm not sure how you're using realism and modernism and naturalism, but they're all movements in the abstract, they're these ephemeral matters of style and attention that is manifest in different ways on canvas or with stone, or words. I don't see how the post modern is fundamentally intractable with labeling like that. The post modern is a sort of more playful or more meta, than the others, but in the end it is still an abstract zeitgeist which possesses those born to it and is reflected on page and in stone and wherever else.

[Anonymous No.4070750]

>>4070741

They're movements in the abstract, but less abstract than pomo. The idea of pomo is to deconstruct, or rather ridicule perceptions, reality and art (including its creation) regardless of circumstances and origin, and so to attribute pomo to a specific set of circumstances, a certain context or the "spirit of its time" defeats its purpose in the first place.

[Anonymous No.4070792]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO_gaxFIRXw

[Anonymous No.4070816]

>>4070750
I don't think so, the idea of the pomo is to essentially reject the ahistoricism of the modern. There's nothing wrong with understanding pomo as being within a context. The postmodern doesn't ridicule, its simply playful. And it while it may perform "deconstruction" it should not be confused with analysis which was the function of the modern artists.

[Anonymous No.4071979]

the serpent eating its tail while johnny carson takes a massive shit on it, in front of an audience of rabbits

[Anonymous No.4071992]

4chan is postmodernism

[Anonymous No.4072006]

>>4068972

>Hegel
>not the nadir of German philosophy

it's like you people are paid to be stupid

[Anonymous No.4072150]

>>4070654
it just means that when you describe all those things as postmodern and leave it at that, postmodern obviously doesn't really mean anything.

[Anonymous No.4072339]

>>4069002
that picture is the definition of retard

[Veil of Maya !!1idlxkXeD8P No.4072786]

>yfw my face
>mfw your face

SUCK MY POST MODERN DICK FAGS

[Anonymous No.4073149]

>>4070262
>It's basically modernism with irony and experimentation
Bullshit! Remember this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair

Because if pomos was all about irony and parody, they would've laughed and called Sokal a total bro. Also:

http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/

[Anonymous No.4073156]

>>4068860
A period in western art (somewhat clearly defined) and a school of thought

when people talk about pomo, they mean the school of thought. when they talk about Auster or Vonnegut, they talk about the literary period.

[Anonymous No.4073158]

>>4068966
Didn't we agree that its called globalism or something

[Anonymous No.4073167]

>>4073149
> Mixing up a period of literature roughly between Sotweed Factor and White Noise to school of philosopgy