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/lit/ - Literature

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4049676 No.4049676 [Reply] [Original]

Just finished this today.

I definitely see where the complaints about Holden complaining about everything come from, but I thought I found where this is explained.

At the end of chapter 24, when Holden explains that he had been harassed in a sexual way about twenty times when he was young by perverts that were around him, wasn't that meant to explain why he has such a shitty view of the world around him?

Is it a combination of bad surroundings and past occurrences that causes him to view everything the way he does?

>> No.4049717

I think so, yes. Still makes me cringe just how moralist this all sounds nowadays, when we've subverted what Salinger proposed hundreds of times and the world has changed enormously. But yeah, that thing with the past experiences and the bad surroundings, added to the fact that hey, he's a teenager after all, so he despises the grounded take on life the adults seem to take, while he's as much of a dreamer as you could get (let's move to a cabin upstate and live there forever, etc.) without being inside Les 400 Coups.

>> No.4049720

>>4049717
wow, that post was badly written, sorry for that OP. I'm no anglophone.

>> No.4049722

>>4049720
I got it alright.

>> No.4049728

I think that it was more meant to show Holden's self esteem and his views on adults in the world. While it was implied, the guy didn't really do anything that bad yet.

>> No.4049731

>>4049728
I found a lot of symbolism relating to the death of the innocence of childhood, and trying to keep that innocence alive.

Like when he talked about seeing all the "Fuck You" 's scratched everywhere, and he imagined his sister reading them. He also seems to be disposed better to children than to adults.

>> No.4049736

This book had the most profound effect on me that a work of literature has ever had. I rushed out and bought it after I read it in the library and it's my new obsession. I've probably read it twenty times in the last month

>> No.4049738

>>4049728
>>4049736
These are both me, I don't know where the ID's are, I'm new to /lit/

>> No.4049746

>>4049731
and yeah, the whole book is symbolism upon symbolism upon symbolism. The biggest plot point, i think, is Holden's obsession with saving children from adulthood and protecting childhood innocence

>> No.4049747

>>4049731
Holden simply hates the "adult-world" and the prospect of himself becoming an adult and be part of that world. So he complains about his brother, calling him a "sellout", he complains about his old history teacher and about his parents. But, he holds his brother Allie in high regard, because Allie died as a kid and will, in his memory, be a kid forever. He also love his little sister so much, because she's innocent.

The "erasing" the fucks out of walls is just this: he doesn't want to expose kids to that kind of nasty language. He just wants to prevent them from falling over the hill, and so he wants to become the catcher in the rye (he gets the lyrics wrong).

>> No.4049754

I also like that he's the worst drunken caller of the world. He's always shrugging of his attempts to call the girl he loves, and calls some random bitch instead.

Fuck, now I want to re-re-re-re-re-re-re-read that book.

>> No.4049855

>>4049676
Well, he demonstrates throughout the novel that society has manipulated him into being self-conscious about his downfalls and inadequacies. The best example I can think of is how he brags about all the girls he's been with, and then halfway through the book he reveals he's a virgin. And if I remember correctly, he just implies that he was molested in a brief sentence or two; he doesn't say exactly how many times.

>> No.4049861

>>4049731
I think a good summary of Holden letting go of his quest for children's innocence is when he says "you can't scratch out all the 'fuck you's' in the world. It's impossible." Note I'm paraphrasing slightly, but that's definitely the gyst.

>> No.4049864

>>4049676
Ugh. Holden was an unreliable narrator and Mr Anthony wasnt molesting him. He was so fucked up because his brother abruptly died of cancer. How did you miss that?

>> No.4049868

>>4049754
That was one of the things I loved about this book. There's no romantic story arc in it, he just loses her to a jock, (supposedly), which I think a lot of teenagers can relate to.

>> No.4049878

>>4049747
I don't think it was that he got the lyrics wrong, it was that he was inspired by the lyrics. Also, I think something a lot of people forget is that he realizes at the end that you can't protect innocence all the time, but the other stages of life are just as beautiful.

>> No.4049888

>>4049864
Just to expand on this though quickly ill post more. Also I'm astonished that the good people of lit haven't already came and cleaned up the plebs in here.

Holden is an unreliable narrator. Before you can assume that Holden had been molested 20 times as a kid, as you say, you must look at what exactly is happening. Holden shows up at a strange teachers house and begs to stay and is clearly running away from home. Me Anthony, after a couple of drinks, strokes Holden's hair as he sleeps. Now that may sound fishy at first but think back. Runaway boy, clearly messed up, needs a place to stay. What mr. Antony does is out of a paternal love. Holden is perpetually paranoid of all adults and it is no surprise that he believes he has been molested or approached in a perverse manner over 20 times (an outrageous claim to say the least, think about it).

Holden is messed up because of his brother's abrupt death. Holden smashes holes with his fist in every window in the garage. Holden knows the exact date and time of his brother's death. No, Salinger doesn't come out and say "yeah Holden is fucked up because his brother died". You just have to infer it.