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/lit/ - Literature

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4007109 No.4007109 [Reply] [Original]

isnt reading translated literature inherently inferior and untrue compared to reading the novel in it's original language? how can anyone who's read a translated version of, say, crime and punishment actually claim that they've truly read the book?

>> No.4007116

Well, if the original language isn't your native tong, how can you still be sure that you've truly read the book?

>> No.4007120

>truly read the book
lmao

lrn2death of the author

>> No.4007137

>>4007120
Yes, but no one ever argued for "death of the translator"

>> No.4007145

>>4007109
>inferior
Yes
>untrue
No

>how can anyone who's read a translated version of, say, crime and punishment actually claim that they've truly read the book?

Because that aren't crippled by a disorder of neural development characterized by impaired social interaction and verbal and non-verbal communication, and by restricted, repetitive or stereotyped behavior, also known as "autism."

>> No.4007161

sure

because the prose and language in C&P is not why it is considered great literature.

it the examining of the psyche of a tormented individual and his ultimate redemption why it is considered great, and therefore it can be translated into other languages and one won't lose much.

on the other hand reading something less didactic and more poetic and dependent on prose and language, in an different language than the original, well, one might have an argument there.

>> No.4007163

>>4007145
But autists can lie too.

>> No.4007172

>>4007116
>>4007145

i don't know. i just can't be bothered to read translated literature since im not really reading the work of the true author but rather the work of whoever is translating. i don't have this problem with foreign language films or music though.

>> No.4007174

Every time I want to read something considered "classic literature" like crime and punishment, I spend a few hours looking for the best translation. While reading the book, I always keep in mind that what I am reading is an interpretation of a translator, but if translator is someone who has either studied russian for years or has even been brought up multilingually, I think its save to say that the interpretation is as close to the original as its going to get.
And as >>4007161 has said already, most books aren't highly regarded for how they are written word for word, but for what is behind those words.

>> No.4007206

>>4007161
yeah maybe c&p isn't the best example to use but whatever

>> No.4007216

>>4007172
In a sense, you will never be able to experience any written work in the way it was intended to, since you dont connect the same experiences to certain words or phrases the way to author does, your interpretation will always be flawed.
A basic example would be the sentence "For a long time I would go to bed early."
How long is "long"? When is "early"? Giving an exact time would give the sentence a more calculating and distant feel than how it was intended to be read. Details that would give you a more precise picture of the book inside the author's head are just swallowed up by things language cant express.

>> No.4007241

>>4007216
>being this much of a pretentious armchair-professor about language
kill yourself

>> No.4007253

one thing i've never understood about this whole translated literature argument: even if I read the work in the original language, I just have to translate it back to my own native language in my head. So either the translation is done by me, an amateur, or by a professional. personally I'd prefer the professional... probably.

>> No.4007312

>>4007241
lmao dude you need to read more books if you think what this dude is saying is in any way 'pretentious', especially given the post he's replying to

>> No.4008877

>>4007241
>>4007312
>>4007253

Yeah, all literature is in a sense a translation, even reading your own from 8 hours ago. I mean, what gets me is that like, even with respect to language... the connotations of words can shift drastically in just a few generations, and the values across the speakers of a language can vary vastly... sharing a culture isn't the same as sharing a head. You're always doing some sort of mental work to bridge the gap

On the other hand, I think translations *are* a bit unique in that someone is going out of their way to filter every word and put it into your native tongue before you have any idea what their reasoning or authority is for that decision. It's not ideal by any stretch. Still, I wouldn't be the same person without a lot of someones doing that work for me for Russian authors, and I'll take the occasional diet coke if it means getting that flavor.

>> No.4008913

>>4007137
No "Yes", lr2 death of the author, lr2 any lit crit circa 70s. When you read Crime & Punishment, you are not reading the same things Dostoevsky meant to put down, you are not getting the same ideas he tried to convey, you are not truly reading the book. Regardless of language, reading it in German, English, French wouldn't change a damn thing. The translator's contribution is just as vital to the thing you finally end up with in your head as your own contribution through the act of reading and the filtering and distortion inherent.
And why should you, who has clearly read so little, even care about the parts you think you might be missing through translation when there are so many books you've left to "half-"read, what does it matter? You're going to sit down and learn every language to the point of fluency (a point that does not exist) before reading each work of any major region? By the time you're halfway there, you'd probably stumble into any of the thought of the past half century, and realize, woops, I'm a fucking retard. Stop worrying about what you're missing out or what other people are doing wrong until you get some more shit under your belt. You shouldn't even bother with primary sources, you'll get more out of critical reviews. I can say I've read Crime & Punishment, and understood it a hundred times more deeply than you, without having even ever held a copy of the book.

>> No.4008924

>>4008913
And sorry if I'm being more mean that's fair, but people make these threads every single week. What, you think you've proven academia is an elaborate hoax? Of course, they've come to the same conclusions every third 16 year old mind on 4chan has. How do you think you even came to the idea? Because the shift in thought happened so long ago that it's filtered down into the unassuming public, so don't think you're so smart for parroting what you say on TV.

>> No.4009364

>>4007253
>dat alliteration

>> No.4009475

>>4007109
>I read the underground man in the original russian
>Oh man the underground man is so spot on

>> No.4009495

>>4007253
>even if I read the work in the original language, I just have to translate it back to my own native language in my head.
you're doing it wrong, m80

>> No.4009507

>>4008913
>>4008924
I was also going to post this. The distortion a translation gives doesn't justify not reading it.

I'm Danish, and a lot of foreigners think they've 'gotten' him, and they're wrong, but so is the Danish people who thinks the same. There are some translations that need to be explained though, both with Kierky and Dostoevskij, but the full explanation lies beyond our grasp

>> No.4009545

>>4007109
The way you word it, you make it seem as if we're reading for points or something--to say we did it. That's like... middle school faggot behavior.
Anyway, all inferences aside: I personally don't like reading translated works. A lot of translations may be good, but I feel they lose the.... eh, "literary" if you will, touch. The ideas remain, but the way its said does not.

There's still a lot to get out of translated works, though. I just personally avoid reading them much of the time--though I do feel silly about it.

>> No.4009652

But if I were to learn the language to enable me to read it wouldn't I essentially be reading the translation? Just that, this time, I'm the one doing the translating. Besides, you can't know every language in the world.

>> No.4009686

no one gives a shit if you care about translations or not. do what you want to do and let other people do the same. stop bitching about nothing.

>> No.4009741

I agree with most in this thread that it doesn't quite matter with most of all books, it is inherently inferior but honestly not by much. Any reading of something is untrue, because language is not a 1 to 1 conversion of thoughts, because each person even in the same language has a different understanding of the language because of the varieties of ways it was learned, but all that's pedantic. as fuck. However some of these posts say something like "If I'm reading it in a non-native tongue isnt it now just me doing the translation (into the native tongue)?" Which I don't think applies, unless you learned languages in a very bad way. It does apply in the sense of "If I'm reading it in a non-native tongue isnt it now just me doing the translation (Into my thoughts (i.e. into understanding))" which, although true, applies to native tongues as well. But thats being pedantic again. If you see something like
>Odi et amo. Quare id faciam, fortasse requiris.
>Nescio. Sed fieri sentio et excrucior.
you *dont* think Ok better translate that into english
>I hate and I love. Why I would do this, by chance you ask.
>I do not know, but I feel it done and am tortured.
and then read your own translation and be like
>man this is cool meaning and all but not very poetic/well-spoken/notgoodprosewhatever
if you know the language you look at the original, read it in the original language and understand it as you would any language. It's very different from reading a translation

captcha: either andque

>> No.4009822

Learn English, French, Spanish and maybe German, Italian, or Russian and use translated books for the rest.

>> No.4009829

>>4007137
It's the "traito-translator" problem that leads to the death of the author.

Most translation of novels today are pretty good and you don't lose much. I have read some books both in original and translated and they were pretty much the same. Dostoevsky is one of those who do well translated since he is mostly concerned about ideas and rarely about style. Only a few times you get some stylistic problems as when you have to render kirillov's staccato brutish speech.

>> No.4009837

>>4007172
Every act of reading is an act of translation. You don't understand the authors' words as he understood them so you are not really reading his ideas but your translation of his ideas.

>> No.4009858
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4009858

I have no problem reading translations
If I don't know the language, it still wouldn't stop me from raping every page of the translated text.

>> No.4009903

>>4007120

i would but I don't know french

>> No.4009937

>>4009495
i know some people can learn to think in another language. maybe I've just never learned another language well enough to do it, or maybe it's just beyond me. but most people who learn another language still think in their native one.

>> No.4009943

>>4009652
my thoughts exactly. according to this guy though >>4009495 we're doing it wrong

>> No.4009956

There are always little nuances of different languages that you might miss out on if you aren't reading something in the original language, but for the most part, if you're reading a good translation, it shouldn't make that much of a difference.

>> No.4010045

I trust the translators enough to know that my time is probably better spent reading a bunch of books in my native language than spending however long learning a language well enough that reading a book in its native language would be noticeably beneficial.