[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 58 KB, 550x550, 5_wikipedia-2-550x550.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3992562 No.3992562 [Reply] [Original]

Can you write in English if it isn't your first language? Or are you forever going to be a peasant? Are there any highly thought of writers with shitty language skills?

>> No.3992574
File: 87 KB, 960x720, Nordics.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3992574

Yes
think of the international audiences of English-speakers in say Europe, it's a good sized group of people to be going after. That's where L T H Chinman makes most of his money.

>> No.3992630
File: 107 KB, 190x190, sunny12.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3992630

I believe English was Joseph Conrad's third language

>> No.3992637

>>3992630
Yep. Nabokov and Conrad are both fantastic examples of non-native English speakers who wrote skillfully.

>> No.3992640

>>3992637
Nabokov grew up in Russia, but didn't he learn French and English simultaneously? I could be mistaken.

>> No.3992645

>>3992562
>Can you write in English if it isn't your first language?
Yes, if your writing is good enough.
>Are there any highly thought of writers with shitty language skills?
Gotta say no. Good language skills are the most basic requirement.

>> No.3992652

>>3992562
Hemingway used to write with grammatical mistakes. Yet, he's one of the most influential writers of all times.

>> No.3992782

James Joyce couldn't write in English, and yet look at him.

>> No.3992796

Salman Rushdie's first language is Urdu.

>> No.3992800

>>3992562
I think so. I write exclusively in English and do it far better than the average burger. Minor slip-ups will be overlooked and fixed by the editor or the line editor.

>> No.3992819

I'm a translator.

The subtleties of any language will show that you are not native, but other than that I don't see why not.

>> No.3992832

>>3992637
Didn't Nabz learn English as a babby and was encouraged to use it over Russian? I might be wrong, but I think read that somewhere.

>> No.3992841

>>3992630
i was gonna say this and then liken op to a flying e-penis hole

>> No.3992850

>>3992800
Burgers are incapable of writing.

>> No.3992932

>>3992832
>Didn't Nabz learn English as a babby and was encouraged to use it over Russian?
No, not really. That's a gross exaggeration meant to foster his 'worldly european noble' image.

>> No.3992952

>lived all my life in Norway
>grew up watching tons and tons of 'merican movies
>from the age of 12 and on my thoughts have increasingly been in english
>now, at 20, all my thinking is done in english and only very rarely do I actually think in Norwegian

Kind of strange, but I'm much more proficient in english than I am in Norwegian.

>> No.3992985

> Are there any highly thought of writers with shitty language skills?

Obviously all good writers are comfortable expressing themselves and using language, but if you take away all the writers and books with a misplaced comma or spelling mistake, you'd be left with approximately three books. All of them written by grammarians about grammar.

>> No.3992988
File: 8 KB, 220x317, 220px-Portrett_av_Vidkun_Quisling_i_sivile_kl%C3%A6r,_ukjent_datering.[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3992988

>>3992952
Landssviker.

>> No.3992997
File: 21 KB, 460x276, Ayn-Rand-002a.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3992997

>>3992562
Pic related. Think what you will of her writing, philosophy, love or hate it. Whatever. It doesn't matter for this thread. In the end she was a financially successful professional writer and her novels and nonfiction continue to sell to this day. She was Russian born but her success was as an author writing in English in America.

>> No.3993005

>>3992952
Heisann, bror.

Something similar here. I even write my personal notes to myself in English. It is part circumstance, part a burning desire for the sheepish, naive Norwegian people to be destroyed and replaced by something better. In fact, please nuke UK, Scandinavia and France. Thank you.

>> No.3993010

English is my second language, but I wouldn't waste any ink writing in english. I'd prefer to write either in spanish (fourth language) or french (third language) if I couldn't write in my mother tongue.

English is a severely limited language and only retarded hunckbacks are proud to know english. It's literally (and I quite mean literally) the easiest and dumbest language in the world.

>> No.3993013

>>3992997
>financially successful professional

In the end of her life she had to take welfare checks.

>> No.3993015

>>3992562
> Are there any highly thought of writers with shitty language skills
Shakespeare, McCarthy.

>> No.3993018

>>3992952
that's actually super interesting

I was born in Bosnia but only lived there for a year before my family moved to Germany. When I was 4 years old we moved to Australia where I've lived since (am now 22).
From the age of 1-5 I spoke pretty much exclusively German and there are home video recordings of me speaking German (at least as well as any 5 year old can), but now I've completely forgotten it because I didn't practice it growing up.
At school I obviously learnt English, however at home my parents always wanted me to speak in Bosnian with them so I wouldn't forget it.

My thoughts are now 100% English, however every few years I travel back to Bosnia to visit extended family and I find that after about a month or so my thoughts start to occur in Bosnian, which is a weird feeling because I speak it at a 12-year old level at best.

>> No.3993021

Joseph Conrad managed to become one of the champions of the English language, yet it wasn't his native tongue.

>> No.3993027
File: 10 KB, 235x284, 1324726209502.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3993027

>>3993010
>claims English is the easiest language
>simple grammatical errors throughout post

>> No.3993634

>>3993010
the language doesn't matter you idiot. unless you are working on lyric poetry

>> No.3994251

>>3992932
Oh, I see. Were did you get that info from? Not doubting you, just wanna know. His Wiki page isn't too helpful. So he learned Russian as a kid and then English and French later on or what?

>> No.3994285
File: 20 KB, 479x300, schettino.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3994285

>>3993010
>italian fag
how do i know? i am italian fag too...

>> No.3994322

>>3993021
>Lutosławski recalls that during their conversation Conrad explained why he did not write in Polish: "I value too much our beautiful Polish literature to introduce into it my worthless twaddle. But for Englishmen my capacities are just sufficient: they enable me to earn my living".

>> No.3994332

>>3992796
He's a crappy writer though

>> No.3994353
File: 751 KB, 768x667, 1360009843480.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3994353

Jerzy Kosinski

>> No.3994359

>>3994353
That picture looks like a monochrome DMT trip.

>> No.3994520

>>3992997
I hated her style.....

But that's just my opinion.

>> No.3994525

>>3993015
Hell ya McCarthy's on of my favorite novelists.

>> No.3994592

>>3992562
How can someone read from that book?

>> No.3994607

>>3994251

I read something somewhere that said he learned English quite young.

>> No.3994609

>>3994332

He's written at least one masterpiece. That's more than most writers have done.

>> No.3994612

>>3994359

It's Keith Haring, yo.

>> No.3994613

>>3992637
>>3992832
>>3992932
>>3994251
He learned English, French, and Russian as a kid. He says this numerous times in essays and his autobiography, and specifically mentions that Conrad's case is much different than his own.

>> No.3994660
File: 69 KB, 640x480, 1356362981613.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3994660

>>3994353
>implying that painting is 2deep

>> No.3994814

>>3993010
Top kek

>> No.3994842

>>3992562
Ayn Rand wan't native english speaker, nor was nabokov, and he was known for beautiful prose

>> No.3994854

F. Scott Fitzgerald relied heavily on his editor, but he wrote well.

>> No.3994876

>>3992952
I'm similar, but my native language is Spanish, and it's not like I'm bad with it, but I actually find it easier to express myself in English.

>> No.3995529

>>3994613
I see, thanks. I love his prose, although it sucks that I can't appreciate the multi-lingual wordplay and have to constantly check for notes. He comes off as a bit of a pretentious twat sometimes, but I'm sure it's just because I can't speak those languages fluently.

>> No.3995548

>all these people being proud of only talking in english and forgetting their native language

Shame on you. I'm Austrian and I would never prefer English to German. It's not like my English is very bad - actually, I passed the CAE with an A, which means that my ability to express myself in English is at the highest possible level, C2. Don't you guys fear that more and people will begin to speak exclusively in English?

>> No.3995551

>>3995548
>which means that my ability to express myself in English is at the highest possible level
...

>> No.3995557

>>3995548
I think the tendency is for people to rediscover the merits of their native language as they grow older. While they are young, identifying strongly with a foreign language - especially considering the cosmopolitan potentiality of English - can help alleviate a cultural cringe, aid individuation in a crucial stage of that process, whilst being perfectly harmless personally and helpful academically.

That's what happened to me anyway. Only in my mid-twenties did I develop an interest in Danish as a language.

>> No.3995632

>>3993015
Does McCarthy actually have shitty language skills ?
I liked the way he wrote, even found it beautiful sometimes. I think the way he wrote was part of the experience he wanted to deliver through his book. But english isn't my main language, I may be wrong.

>> No.3995639

>>3995548
(I'm the Spanish speaker from before.)

>proud of only talking in english and forgetting their native language
Not at all, I don't intend to ever forget my mother tongue, and I'm glad I can speak two languages.

>Don't you guys fear that more and people will begin to speak exclusively in English?
I doubt that will ever happen, and I really don't think that would really be that bad. Languages die pretty much constantly; the barely known languages that are dying right now are in more alarming conditions than the big European tongues.

>> No.3995642

>>3995632
It is not a widely held opinion that his prose is poor, or his grasp of the language tenuous or unskilled.

Whether or not English is your native language doesn't decide the validity of your opinions on English prose, man. If you move to an English-speaking country you'll see that the average grasp of their language is incredibly poor. This is of course not unique to English-speaking countries.

>> No.3995648

I can speak English pretty well but I prefer Dutch over English any day

>> No.3995652

>>3995642
I think you can't fully understand a language if you don't grow up with it. Even if you learn it to the point where you don't even have an accent anymore, your understanding of the language will lack small nuances, stuff easily overlooked. That's why I think that to judge someone's prose, you have to speak the language he writes in.

>> No.3995655

>>3995652
>Even if you learn it to the point where you don't even have an accent anymore
You can't not have an accent, native speaker or not.

>> No.3995656

>>3995655
Yeah, I didn't use the right words. But the idea got through, didn't it ?

>> No.3995662

>>3995656
Oh yes, I was just saying.
Are you a French speaker, by chance?

>> No.3995664

>>3995662
Yes I am. I always forget to remove the space between the last letter and the interrogation mark. Is it what betrayed me ?

>> No.3995671

>>3992562
there are plenty of good writers that had english as their second language, Conrad for instance, he hated writing until he learned english.

>> No.3995672

>>3995664
Yes yes, haha. I myself am a Hispanophone, and sometimes have trouble with adverbs, in and on especially.

>> No.3995708

>dat pic

that is only 0.1% of Wikipedia in printed form

>> No.3995958

>>3995652
Yeah, I understood that that was the point you were making. It is common to assume a certain linguistic communicatory tact or common sense specific to native speakers. I don't believe this is real thing. The experiences of native speakers are so varied that it is perfectly possible for an indigenous person to be far less immersed in the culture and the language than a committed immigrant. What does exist is the self-assuredness that comes with being a native speaker, but I would contend that that does not amount to any more than the semblance of greater understanding.

>> No.3996005

These threads give me hope. I used to write in my native language, but at some point I got really sick of it, to the point I can't finish a story. But I've noticed when I write in English I let the story flow, without stopping and staring at my words.