[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 63 KB, 585x750, Ulysess.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3971924 No.3971924 [Reply] [Original]

The Greatest Novels of all time:

1. Ulysses
2. The Great Gatsby
3. Moby-Dick/The Whale
4. A Question Of Upbringing
5. The Idiot

If you disagree, or you haven't read any of these books, I urge you to read more and try to decipher which books are good through your employed knowledge.

>> No.3971927

>>3971924
I agree.

>> No.3971933

>greatest novels of all time
>all written in the last two hundred years by european dudes

expand ur horizons and/or stop making unquantifiable assertions

>> No.3971948

>>3971933
>all written in the last two hundred years by european dudes
>expand ur horizons and/or stop making unquantifiable assertions


>I have no suggestions to make and only criticise.

>> No.3971962

>>3971933
Only 2 are European?

>> No.3971971

>>3971924
>>3971927

What do you aim for by doing this power ranking OP?

Every essentials list shuffles the same dozen of titles every single time without any surprise or ground to discuss.

I don't even blame you, or /lit/ which would be the obvious step I just think it's the most sterile excuse of an invitation to discuss or shitpost because we're all bored to death.


On the other hand I find amusing how people that tend to be allergic to prize winners and nominations (namely, the booker, the nobel, etc) at the same time have an affinity to assort lists and taxonomies of what they call the best of the best in everything.

Also:

>>>/flavorwire/
>>>/buzzfeed/

>> No.3971986

>>3971971
Ah, I see.

>>>/reddit/

>> No.3971988

>>3971948
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100_Best_Books_of_All_Time

closest anyone has yet to come to a best books list

my suggestion is to stop being self-important and maybe you'll learn something

4/10 got me to respond again

>> No.3971998

>>3971924
>No War and Peace
>No Brothers Karamazov

>> No.3972005

>>3971924
Books or novels?

>> No.3972008

>>3972005
Hi there!

You seem to have made a bit of a mistake in your post. Luckily, the users of 4chan are always willing to help you clear this problem right up! You appear to have used a tripcode when posting, but your identity has nothing at all to do with the conversation! Whoops! You should always remember to stop using your tripcode when the thread it was used for is gone, unless another one is started! Posting with a tripcode when it isn't necessary is poor form. You should always try to post anonymously, unless your identity is absolutely vital to the post that you're making!

Now, there's no need to thank me - I'm just doing my bit to help you get used to the anonymous image-board culture!

>> No.3972016

>>3971924
>I urge you to read more and try to decipher which books are good through your employed knowledge.

either english is your second language (doubtful based off that your very anglocentric list) or you are trying so hard that im getting physically uncomfortable

>> No.3972018

>>3971986

epic comeback

>> No.3972023

>>3972016
>based off that your very
too embarrassed for OP to bother with syntax

>> No.3972026

>>3972008
Holy fuck, I remember this from back in 2010.

>> No.3972039

>>3971924
>Has never read Proust
>Being this pleb

>> No.3972046

>>3972016
It's I'm, not im.

>> No.3972058

>>3972039
A la reserche du temps perdu is NOT one of the top 5 greatest novels (or one of the greatest period for that matter) ever. Actually read books before you praise them.

>> No.3972062

>no Lolita
lol this guy

>> No.3972078

>>3972008
Hi there!

You seem to have made a bit of a mistake in your post. Luckily, the users of 4chan are always willing to help you clear this problem right up! You appear to have shitposted instead of answering my question or deciding not to respond if you are not the OP! Whoops! You should always remember to stop shitposting when le epic troll thread it was used for is gone, unless another one is started! Shitposting when people are trying to have a legitimate conversation is poor form. You should always try to post with quality in mind, unless you are a semi-functioning inbred!

Now, there's no need to thank me - I'm just doing my bit to help you act like someone who can speak without copy-pasted jokes and the use of irrelevant slander!

>> No.3972082

>no Flaubert
>no Céline

>> No.3972084

>no Heart of Darkness

>Anthony Powell
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>> No.3972090

>no Infinite Jest
do you even /lit/?

>> No.3972091

>>3972058
I'd put it over Gatsby and The Idiot. Moby-Dick and Ulysses are better, and I haven't read A Question of Upbringing.

>> No.3972096

>No Tolstoy
>No Flaubert
>No Stendhal
>No Sterne (i.e. Joyce but better)
>No Austen
>No Dickens
>No Cervantes

HAHAHAA SICK B8 M8

>> No.3972098

>>3972091
I would put it over Gatsby, maybe not the idiot.

I agree.

Neither have I

>> No.3972099

>>3971998
>>3972039
>>3972062
>>3972082
>>3972084

>Why haven't you included this obscure book that I recently read and therefore makes it good!!! Wah!!!

>> No.3972103

>>3972090
Why would you try to worsen board quality after /lit/ has gotten over that middlebrow timesink?

>> No.3972104

>>3972058
You are really clueless. In fact, you can't even spell La Recherche.

>> No.3972105

>>3972096
>No Sterne (i.e. Joyce but better)
Please rethink your life

>> No.3972109

>>3972105
>Joyce
>good

lol

>> No.3972111

>>3972099
>all books i dunno r oscur books

uncultivated pleb

>> No.3972115

>>3972099
You honestly think any of that is obscure? You're new to reading aren't you?

Actually, some of those are well-known to people simply because they live in a civilization.

>>3972104
>He says Proust shouldn't be included in the top five books ever written [EVER WRITTEN]!
>He made a typo!
>I'm smarter!

>> No.3972119
File: 73 KB, 253x317, 1345433454294.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3972119

>no God Delusion

>> No.3972130

>>3971924
>If you disagree, or you haven't read any of these books, I urge you to read more and try to decipher which books are good through your employed knowledge.
Ahem....fuck you

>>3972109
Learn to not say things you don't understand.
>>3972119
wat

>> No.3972124

>>3971924
i ainst never heard of 'A Question Of Upbringing'
and also 'The Idiot' is not considered Dostoyevsky's greatest work.

>> No.3972125

>>3972115
Since you didn't feel the need to provide any valuable insight other than a cheap ad hominem, i don't see why I should go any further; at least my point is grounded, i.e. you don't even know the book's name.

>> No.3972131

>gatsby
>snorevsky

u wot

>> No.3972259
File: 202 KB, 1102x409, proust.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3972259

>>3972125
It's way too long.

It's a cheap retelling of his life; no creativity shown in terms of story making.

The prose and sentence structure can get unbelievably silly. I seriously cannot find the passage (I have been looking for more than five minutes) but somewhere in either vol. 2 or vol. 3, when he is waiting for mme de guermantes or Albertine to ride the elevator to his floor. It goes on for a page and literally all it says is "I was waiting for the elevator."

The *entire* thing is verbose.

There is no plot to the point where it is unbearable. Not like A Rebours no plot where the book takes on the role of a sensual in-taker, but literally just scene upon scene of rich french women talking and him walking in flowers.

The book masks that it has an ever-present psychological/philosophical undertone during every scene, even though it will ramble on about one dinner party for 200 pages while flashing an off-hand philosophical rumination for a sentence or two.

It's boring.

There is no fun to be had.

Proust abused rats and masturbated to them.

I can keep going if you want

>> No.3972271

>>3971924
In terms of what? The GG is really well written, but i could probably write a better criticism of 1920's high society.

>> No.3972277
File: 34 KB, 720x540, 600104_10150941581366431_399610858_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3972277

>>3972099
>War and Peace/Brothers Karamazov
>Obscure

Get out

>> No.3972365

>>3971924
>>3972005
Since the OP didn't answer me, I'm going to ignore the subject field and assume he really does mean "novels" (which is a hell of a lot easier than ordering the five best "books" ever, which would just be cruel and unusual punishment).

I propose my own list, trying to remain "objective" but also letting my opinions in a little.

1. War and Peace
2. Moby Dick
3. Ulysses
4. Madame Bovary
5. The Trial*

* I really don't feel like this is correct, but I wanted to provide works from Russia, America, the British isles, France, and Germany (this is a western list I'm guessing, and other civilizations have not produced an excessive amount of "novels").

I think Goethe would fit much better as the German literary ambassador, but his best work is a play (Faust), i.e. not a novel. The only novel I have read of his was The Sorrows of Young Werther, which in my opinion wouldn't deserve a spot on a list like this. If anyone is more apt in German literature or Goethe, suggest something. I also sadly haven't gotten around to Mann or Musil yet so those are contenders.

Also sorry to the feminists, but I couldn't think of a female-authored novel good enough to beat these. For English, Pride & Prejudice would be the go-to novel (Chaucer, Milton, and Shakespeare didn't write novels) but Joyce surpasses Austen imo.

>> No.3972603

>>3972365

I liked your list. In my opinion War and Peace really deserves the top place.

>> No.3972616

>>3972603
In your opinion as in the opinion of me (probably but I am indecisive), Woolf, Chekov, Pushkin, and literally thousands of others.

It's so great. I'm actually on my second read-through right now.

>> No.3972724

>implying Finnegans Wake isn't the superior Joyce novel
>implying Gatsby is even top five 20th Century

>> No.3972734

1. Divine Comedy
2.The Brothers Karamazov
3.Dr Seuss The Cat in the Hat
4.The Perks of Being a Wallflower
5.Eragon

>> No.3972735

>>3972724
>Finnegans Wake
>implying

>> No.3972739

>>3972734
This better be a le ruse

>> No.3972742

>>3972724
Finnegans Wake- pointless babble and made up language. Worthless book
F.Scott Fitzgerald- one of the finest writers in American History, one of the finest writers of the 20th century. This is fact. You are a fucking idiot if you don't think so, really pathetic. move along now

>> No.3972746

>>3972739
only 5 books I have ever read
I do believe that the Divine Comedy is the finest writing in the history of mankind.

>> No.3972750

>>3972742
I didn't say Gatsby wasn't a fantastic book. But top 5 of all time? Really? It's a great novel, and I concede that it probably is top 5 of the 1900s.

Besides, all your opinions are invalid because you called Finnegans Wake worthless.

>> No.3972762

>>3972750
Finnegans Wake is only popular because it's Joyce. It holds no value. The Great Gatsby is easily top 5 of the 1900's and anything that the 2010's have produced. Get off your stupid horse with obsessing over Joyce. Half his shit is stupid nonsense.
"oh noes, muh biased goggles are breaking"
welcome to the real world

>> No.3972766

>>3972762
What the fuck do the 2010s have to do with anything? It's less than three years in, why are you trying to qualify its merits in history as a literary period?

>> No.3972774

>>3972766
critical thinking....
2010's SO FAR
fucking retard
"muh finnigans wake is brilliant"
cant even understand simple fucking concepts
goddamn /lit/ getting more stupid by the second.

>> No.3972792

>>3972774
That still doesn't explain why you felt like bringing up the 2010s. It has nothing to do with either Finnegans Wake or Gatsby. And can you really not see any value whatsoever in Finnegans Wake? It isn't just really beautiful aesthetically even if it's a bit 2deep4everyone conceptually?

And since we're on a reading and writing board, I have to note that your use of apostrophes is retarded.

>> No.3972793

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_100_Best_Books_of_All_Time

Much better than anything offered in this thread due to obvious differences in methodology, but still deeply flawed. For instance, I'm pretty sure any literature Ruskifag would scream over the fact that the list includes no less that four Dostoïevsky but nothing of Pouchkine.
There in a notable skew in favor of prose. Most of the works in verse are prior to the XVth century even though verse poetry thrived at least until well into the nineteenth century. Of course there's also the bias towards the West but since it's pretty much a "list of most valued literary works in the Western sense" that's understandible.

Also
>Camus
>but no Baudelaire or Racine

As a Frenchfag this abundantly riles me up.
I could publish my own list but that would simply be a very biased opinions like most things itt, and I wouldn't even go through the trouble of justifying it contrary to what others did.

How about we search for the best criteria of ranking for literary works ? Overall influence would be relevant for instance, and the novelty of the ideas dealt with in the work, or the technical mastery involved in the writing could also be interesting criteria.

>> No.3972801

>>3972762
>>3972774
>half his shit is stupid nonsense
Yeah, a lot of people really don't get it their first time through. Try again though!

>> No.3972816

>>3972762
>>3972742
>>3972735
>>3972724
Finnegans wake, taken aesthetically, is the superior novel.

Anyone who has ever attempted stream-of-consciousness writing knows how frustrating it is that words are forever locked in their relative meanings and the fact that you cannot pack multiple thoughts in at once: contrary to how the surrealist mind behaves. On top of this, dreaming is even more surreal, therefore near impossible to capture in pure narrative. When one then returns back to Finnegans Wake after this frustration, the mastery of the Wake is revealed instantly. It is the depiction of the dreaming mind without amnesia: remembering every twist and manifestation during a night's sleep.

However, I think Ulysses might be more whole, more all-encompassing to the spirit of the human. I have trouble deciding which is better.

>> No.3972819

>>3972816
Actually, I'd say Finnegans Wake>Portratit>Ulysses

>> No.3972820

>>3972819
*Portrait

>> No.3972826

>>3972819
Can you honestly say Portrait is better than Ulysses with an objective stance? Portrait might be more friendly and homely, but I really don't think it is a match to Ulysses.

>> No.3972839
File: 197 KB, 1247x996, 1825 - 1830 - Death on a Pale Horse.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3972839

>>3972826
>more friendly and homely
to *you,* I meant to add. Not for me.

>> No.3973467

I just found out I have the 1993 Norwegian translation of Ulysses lying here in my summer cabin. Should I give it a try?

>> No.3973472

>>3971924
>muh opinions

/thread

>> No.3973854

1. Don Quixote
2. Moby Dick
3. The Brothers Karamazov
4. War and Peace
5. Ulysses

>including French novels
>shiggy

>> No.3973944

>>3973854

cien años de soledad goes instead of war and peace.

but yeah, mah nigga

>> No.3973965

>>3973467
If you have good (great) English, read it in English.

>>3973854
War and Peace > Bros k. Sorry

>> No.3973968

Can we at least agree that Joyce had the best prose of all time?

>> No.3973972

>>3973854
Also, why wouldn't you include a French novel? France has been one of the most progressive and important nations regarding the development of the novel.

>> No.3973970

>>3973965
Hi there!

You seem to have made a bit of a mistake in your post. Luckily, the users of 4chan are always willing to help you clear this problem right up! You appear to have used a tripcode when posting, but your identity has nothing at all to do with the conversation! Whoops! You should always remember to stop using your tripcode when the thread it was used for is gone, unless another one is started! Posting with a tripcode when it isn't necessary is poor form. You should always try to post anonymously, unless your identity is absolutely vital to the post that you're making!

Now, there's no need to thank me - I'm just doing my bit to help you get used to the anonymous image-board culture!

>> No.3973974

>>3973968
That's probably not true, though.

But I don't know.

>> No.3973985

>>3973972
France is shit. Just complete and utter shit in every conceivable way. No one cares about their shit pretentious navel-gazing except other Frenchmen.

>> No.3973990

Why don't we just rank the top 5 English novels

>> No.3973996

>>3973990
No, we need to throw in the token Russian one.

>> No.3973997

>>3971924
Meh, I guess you wallow in your bias if it makes you feel better.

>> No.3974000

>>3973990
(assuming you mean English language)

1. Moby Dick
2. Ulysses
3. The Sound and the Fury
4. The Waves
5. USA Trilogy

>> No.3974004

Well first of all I don't believe it's possible to objectively label art as "good" or "bad", let alone "greatest". So here are the five novels I enjoyed the most (because I read fiction for pleasure so a good book to me is one I enjoy):

1) The Book of the New Sun (BY A WIDE MARGIN) - holy shit I love this
2) Dune
3) Cryptonomicon
4) A Game of Thrones
5) Tough to decide. Consider Phlebas, I guess?

>> No.3974009

>>3974000
>having Moby Dick over Ulysses
>having the artistic and aesthetic values to value Ulysses as a great novel but not Finnegans Wake

>> No.3974013

>>3974004
>I don't believe it's possible to objectively label art as "good" or "bad", let alone "greatest"
>>>/mu/
>>>/tv/
>>>/b/
>>>/r9k/

>> No.3974017

>>3974013

I don't understand the point of your comment.

>> No.3974018

>>3974004
go back to reddit, faggot. on 4chan we believe in objective truth.

>> No.3974020

>>3974004
Top lel

>>3973985
You shouldn't be allowed to make a list for the western canon if you dismiss entire empires because 'muh pretenchus'

>> No.3974025

>>3974018
>on 4chan we believe in objective truth

Lol, no we don't. Maybe /sci/ does, but not us. What we believe in is "my taste is objectively better than yours."

>> No.3974027

>>3974018

Well I guess I do, too, when it comes to facts and science and what not. But when it comes to art? It's all just personal opinions!

>> No.3974031

>>3974020
If France were to cease existing tomorrow, the world would be a better place. Their literary tradition is a farce. They've not produced one truly great writer in their whole sorry history; meanwhile the 'uncultured' 'rosbifs' across the Channel have more than they know what to do with.

>> No.3974030

>>3974025
Nobody was talking to you. Fuck off.

>> No.3974040

>>3974025
Oh hey look, another new tripfag who think he is /lit/'s spokesman. If you want to be a part of /lit/, drop the trip. It's not even as if you are distinctive or interesting in any way. There's no reason for it.

>> No.3974044

>>3974025
Don't listen to these naysayers, Celebes! Do what you want!

As for you Negative Nancys: shame on you! Let's try to make /lit/ a more positive and constructive place, and focus on posts, rather than if they have a name or not!

>> No.3974056

>>3973970
not talking about this particular conversation but names are actually helpful in /lit/. In an ongoing conversation it get tiring to clarify each and every time you're attributed posts you didn't make and every time points you did make are dismissed and saying "not that anon" every time so other anons won't misinterpret your point of view. It's simply more efficient. Lamentably people idiotically and categorically rejected. Furthermore, a trip is just a way to secure the name, since people don't like other people having an identifier here. It's all a pretty stupid conflict...

>> No.3974066

>>3973968
we cant

>> No.3974081
File: 318 KB, 704x672, 1350921618649.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3974081

>>3974040
Most authors write with so little individuality that almost anyone in the kingdom could be the author of what is written, and since the name becomes a very trivial accessory, one perceives that anonymity has significance also in a poetic sense; on the other hand, authors who have individuality have no need of appending their name.

>>3972734
as the only list to include Divine Comedy this is actually the best one ITT

I think /lit/ transcends the subjective-objective dichotomy anyway

>> No.3974091

>>3974031
Do you have any idea what you are talking about or are you just letting the 'freedom fries' craze (the supposed hatred France has for America which is not even true) posses you

>> No.3974096

>>3974081
Divine comedy is not a novel

>> No.3974115

>>3974031
I assume you're not french thus haven't spent all your whole life immersed in french literature like us; here, let me give you a list of great french writers/poets even though you'll say they're shit : Balzac, Victor Hugo, Nerval, Baudelaire, Céline, Proust, Sartre, Simone de Beauvoir, Voltaire, Verlaine, Apollinaire, Rimbaud, Camus, Flaubert, Ionesco, Zola, Lautréamont, Rabelais, Cocteau, Gide, Sade; hell, even Kundera can be considered part of french writers since he now writes exclusively in French and is involved in the french scene... And they're just the first ones who come to my mind, no doubt other french people would think of many others. Have you read all of their works ? Can you honestly say they're all shit ?
I don't normally get in the whole patriotism thing and celebrate France like that, but honestly, literature is one of the reasons I don't completely hate my country. Having french as my main language and being able to read the original versions of countless great books feels damn good.
tl; dr version : you can't dismiss a country's whole literature just because it doesn't fit your taste.

>> No.3974125

>>3971924
fuck the great gatsby. It's the most overrated piece of literature garbage from the 20th century.

>> No.3974126

>>3974115
even if you combine all those names together you still don't have a body of work that comes close to being one tenth as good as coriolanus.

>> No.3974167

>>3974125
I tried, then Tom got a mechanic to shoot me down by the watering hole.

>> No.3974178
File: 121 KB, 1002x1059, yhpo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3974178

>>3974096
The subject heading said "best books" but that's true.
novels are overrated; even if you combine all the books /lit/ talks about together you still don't have a body of work that comes close to being one tenth as good as evangelion

>> No.3974180

Easy:

1- The Da Vinci Code - Dan Brown
2- Angels and Demons - Dan Brown
3- Twilight - Stephanie Meyer
4- Hunger Games
5 Atlas Shrugged

>> No.3974189

>>3974167
Not bad. 6/10.

>> No.3974192

>>3974126
Of course. And you're saying this because you've read every single thing they've written several times with an omniscient point of view, which enables you to decide the true value of a piece of work without relying on your own subjective opinion ?
I'm guessing you've read like five French pieces and think it's enough to judge France's whole literature.

>> No.3974254

>>3974178
Yeah in my post
>>3972365
I pointed out that the subject and the post of the OP contradicted. If I were to rank the top 5 books of all time, I would need a week.

>> No.3974266

>>3974044
Jesus, what a faggy post.

>> No.3974285

>>3974266
i'm assuming it was sarcastic. no 4channer would seriously say something like that

>> No.3974289

>>3974285
Maybe they would on the ...
Wait I'm not allowed to mention that board without breaking the rules of the Internet. Still sucks though, homophobe.

>> No.3974336

>>3971924
I disagree with the first three (I have read them) simply because I didn't find them appealing. I do recognize their importance and their literary merit. They're just not for me.

>> No.3974350

>>3974289
Homophobe is a made up term to demonize anti-homosexuals while sounding pseudo-scientific. I highly doubt people who labeled homophobe genuinely fear homosexuals like an agoraphobic or arachnophobic person fears their respective things. "Asshole" would be a better and more proper term.

>> No.3974354

>>3974350
*who are labelled* My bad.

>> No.3974355

>>3974125
I'd better say fuck War and Peace and The Brothers Karamazov. They are the most overrated pieces of literature garbage ever.

>> No.3974430

>>3971924

1. Petersburg
2. Blood Meridian
3. Voyage au bout de la nuit
4. Stoner
5. Héliogabale, où l'anarchiste courroné

>> No.3974452

>>3974350
A made up word? Aren't all words 'made up'? Homophobe is generally understood to mean a hatred or disdain of homosexuals. Do keep in mind that the etymology of words do not always determine their meaning - after all, 'asshole' in the context you use it does not refer to a literal asshole does it, asshole?

>> No.3974469

>>3972096
>wants 7 authors in a top 5 list

>> No.3974517

>>3972734
best laugh I have had all day 8/10

>> No.3974915

>epic trole

>> No.3975006

What do you guys think of the Count of Monte Cristo?

>> No.3975298

>>3974180
>>3974044
>>3974027
>>3974018
>>3972109
>>3972099
>>3972096

are you all high

>> No.3975303

>>3972734
HOW did Eragon make it to this list? Don't you think that could go do MUCH better? Are you referring to only his first book or any of the others? I think we need to wait him out for a different story and better writing skills.