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/lit/ - Literature

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3923314 No.3923314 [Reply] [Original]

>The Meditations by Marcus Aurelius
>The Count of Monte Cristo
>The Art of War
>Moby Dick
>The Iliad
>The Histories
>Boy Scout Handbook
>The Republic
>The Odyssey
>Brave New World
>1984
>Hamlet
>Beyond Good and Evil
>Animal Farm
>The Prince
>How To Win Friends And Influence People
>The Metamorphosis
>Lord of the Flies

Thats it. Thats all you need to become a man of greater worth than your contemporaries.

>> No.3923323

where is atlas shrugged, fountainhead, and anthem?

>> No.3923328
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3923328

>>3923323

>> No.3923333

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/05/14/100-must-read-books-the-essential-mans-library/

>> No.3923339

Who the hell wants to be manly? What sort of asinine aesthetic is that?

>> No.3923341

>>3923314
Got more bro? Because I've read every single title listed.


PRE-1950 of course

>> No.3923347
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3923347

>>3923339

>> No.3923352

>>3923339
when was the last time you had sex?

>seriously

>> No.3923357

>>3923352
Never.

>> No.3923359

>>3923341
>PRE-1950 of course

top kek

>>3923347
not forging a new masculinity in response to traditional masculinity's total inadequacy in the twenty-first century

>> No.3923361
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3923361

Why is Crime and Punishment not on the list?

>> No.3923362

>The Bible

>> No.3923364
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3923364

A book by a very manly Professor who is well-versed in all things, ideas, and books manly.

>> No.3923369

>>3923357
try being more manly then

>implying you're not a intellectual eunuch

>> No.3923373

>>3923369
Why would I want to have sex when I can take drugs and masturbate?

>> No.3923389

>>3923373
>being a solipsist

even worse than a eunuch

>> No.3923421
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3923421

>>3923314
>Not a single Kurt Vonnegut novel.
>A man who survived being a WWII POW, and the bombing of Dresden.
>A man who worked at a dock while writing science fiction novels to give money to his wife and kids.
>tons of shit, written by rich white fems.

You aren't a man at all.

>> No.3923438
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3923438

>>3923421
Gotta agree. OP is a giant faggot for that one.
Pic related, it's the handsome son-of-a-bitch you left out.

>> No.3923442

so a bunch of boring classics and a self help book. and wanting to be a "man" with such an outdated model of masculinity is juvenile.

>> No.3923448

>>3923314

>Manly Man
>How To Win Friends And Influence People

You kids are a fukin lol and a half sometimes.

>> No.3923456

>>3923442
Kill. Yourself.

>> No.3923466

>>3923421
Don't forget, when he was a POW, he basically told the German officers that he couldn't wait for the Russians to come and kick their kraut asses, right in their faces when they appointed him the group leader.

>> No.3923471

>>3923339
Who the hell wants to be "progressive"? What sort of asinine aesthetic is that?

>> No.3923480

>>3923442
So which model of masculinity should be followed?

>> No.3923481
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3923481

>>3923456
full stops shouldn't be used for emphasis

"There was never but one perfect gentleman since the world began ... and He was the Son of God."

>> No.3923512

>>3923481
why does that picture even exist?

>> No.3923519

>>3923512
To illustrate the influence media have on people

>> No.3923537

>>3923339
>Who the hell wants to be manly?

Men, pussy.

>> No.3923542
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3923542

>using literature to reinforce gender roles

get rekt m8

>> No.3923545

>>3923542
>implying nature needs reinforcing

>> No.3923549
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3923549

>>3923456

>> No.3923550
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3923550

>>3923545
>conflating nature with constructed normatives

>> No.3923552
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3923552

>>3923545
>"nature" = gender roles
good 1 m8. what part of your ass did you pull that one out of?

>> No.3923555

>>3923545
Without making a value judgement of >>3923542,
what you said is really dumb, on many fronts.I hope, for your sake, that you know that.

>> No.3923557

>>3923549
>le tumblr justice warrior

>>3923550
>implying constructed

>>3923552
reality

>>>/tumblr/

>> No.3923560

>>3923333

I highly doubt the author of this article has read all of the titles he's listed. Certainly not The Wealth of Nations, since he pulled a stock quote from it and said something along the lines of "wanna learn economics? read this." It's a very dense treatise, no country hayride.

>> No.3923562
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3923562

>>3923552
wut

>> No.3923567

>>3923562
Gender roles have no basis in DNA. Unless you think wearing a skirt and make-up and cooking the lasagna is encrypted into chromosomes.

I'm actually pretty embarrassed that people still think this.

>> No.3923570
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3923570

>>3923557
>implying not constructed

quality post

>> No.3923573

>>3923570
>implying tumblr womyn like you say anything worth reading


>>3923567
>I'm actually pretty embarrassed that people still think this.

>>3923552
>what part of your ass did you pull that one out of?


>>3923555
>what you said is really dumb, on many fronts.I hope, for your sake, that you know that.


>>3923549
>fedora nurd = u

>> No.3923575

>>3923567
What about he ability to give birth to young?

>> No.3923577
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3923577

>>3923573
alright guys, time to abandon thread.

>> No.3923580

>>3923575
>Doesn't understand the term "gender roles"

>> No.3923585

>>3923580
>doesn't understand how this roles come about

>> No.3923586

>>3923580
Yeah.. shitting out a child leads to certain "gender roles".

>> No.3923588

>>3923314

>The Iliad

Goddamn that's a good one.

>> No.3923590

>>3923585
*these

ftfm

>> No.3923595

>>3923585
There are lots of reasons gender roles have come about, including biology. This acknowledgement is required by both those who assume that gender roles are "natural" or "an extension of biology" and those who question the validity or relevancy of said norms with respect to societal needs and concerns.

the last thing the world needs is another armchair sociologist.

>> No.3923615

damn good coffee

>> No.3923621

>>3923421

Seems like an interesting guy, what's his most acclaimed book?

>> No.3923759

>>3923314
Real men rape ontology to produce an epistemology and then proceed apriori.

In before historical materialist girly men.

>> No.3923784

>>3923573
>>3923557
gb2/pol/pls

>> No.3923791

>>3923621
I take it you are new here? Read Slaughterhouse 5, Cat's Cradle and Mother Night.

All great novels. Not that manly though.

>> No.3923830

>>3923791

I am actually pretty new here. Thanks for the recommendations. I wasn't really concerned for manliness. Considering a lot of "manliness" is just another form of pretension

>> No.3923833

>>3923830
If you're into manliness read Judith Butler Performative Acts and Gender Constitution (1988)

>> No.3923835

>>3923830
>Considering a lot of "manliness" is just another form of pretension

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?

>> No.3923838

>>3923833
Or don't.

>Reading a woman to understand men

Ok.

>> No.3923841

>>3923835

Most people who try to be manly are simply trying to imitate and appear "manly" instead of actually just being a man. It's sort of the same way a fedora is used by awkward people to try and become classy through imitation instead of understanding.

That Art of Manliness blog, while actually having some useful articles, is essentially a how-to on becoming the biggest fucking caricature around.

>> No.3923852

>>3923838
>Judith Butler
>a woman

top kek.

>> No.3923855

>>3923841
>Most people who try to be manly are simply trying to imitate and appear "manly" instead of actually just being a man

Do you have any evidence to support this massive generalization? Also, can you define "manly" as you are using it? I feel like we may have different things in mind.

>That Art of Manliness blog, while actually having some useful articles, is essentially a how-to on becoming the biggest fucking caricature around.

I seems to be a humour site from what I can see, not serious at all...

>> No.3923863

>>3923855

I had actually realised after posting that my idea of being a man is likely different to yours. I was going to post an amendment, but I figured I would just say it in the reply to your comment instead.

Either way "Manly" would be the cultural generalisation of being a man. Whereas being a man (in my opinion) is being capable of prolonged Independence, yet at the same time being able to take responsibility for those closest to you and those who need it. Putting pride and effort into what you do and striving to become a polymath. Perseverance is a desirable trait for this.

As for my evidence it would be all anecdotal. This isn't at all a fact, just an opinion I've picked up over life.

>Art of Manliness as a humour site
I really see no evidence to it being a humour site. They post large amounts of "How to" articles which are for the most part quite accurate.

>> No.3923878

>>3923855
My definition of manliness is pretty much:

>Taking responsibility of your actions
>Stepping up and taking responsibility when others fail
>Stoicism
>Well mannered
>Hungry for Knowledge
>Fear violence
>Not afraid to use it
>Strive to be the best
>Honor
>Loyalty
>Duty
>Not afraid of emotions
>Only show emotions when relevant

>> No.3923881

>>3923878
>>3923863

The thing is, both of these definitions for manliness aren't gender-specific. It's just generally a list of the best traits possible for anybody to have.

>> No.3923884

>>3923855
>Do you have any evidence to support this massive generalization?

This is the clarion call of the New Pleb.

>m-muh evidence

>> No.3923888

>>3923884

In all fairness, what I said was a generalization and it was presented without evidence.

>> No.3923887

>>3923881
So? Manliness is a set of social behaviors, so technically anybody can participate in them. The fact that we call them "manly" is completely arbitrary.

>> No.3923890

>>3923881
>Loyalty

Not gender specific.

But also no shit. Did you ever think manliness was more than a set of ideals that we've been handed down by birth-right and becoming leader of the family?

If you want to talk biology, I can explain to why it was men who was handed the leadership position.

>> No.3923895

>>3923888
Which is to be expected in a non-scientific argument such as this one. Busting out "can you show me evidence for that claim!" in such an already non-empirical conversation is the habit I was making fun of.

>> No.3923922

>>3923314
>books for being manly
>how to win friends and influence people
>manly
>how to win friends

Fedora detected

>> No.3923952

Humanism faggot, do you speak it

>shaw
>Vonnegut
>Tolstoy
>hem-ing-fuck-your-mother-way

/lit/ has enough dildos

>> No.3923971

>>3923884
Ha ha oh wow. Spinoza is laughing at you. The Scholastics are laughing at you. Aristotle is laughing at you. Plato is writing you into a discourse as an idiot. Socrates is drinking hemlock because of you.

>> No.3924001

>>3923878
Homer - Iliad
Homer - Odyssey
Xenophon - Anabasis
Sophocles - Oedipus Rex
Seneca - Letters from a Stoic
Caesar - Gallic Wars
Aurelius - Mediations
Virgil - Aeneid
Aquinas - Summa Theologica
Machiavelli - The Prince
Shakespeare - King Lear
Shakespeare - Hamlet
Dumas - Count of Monte Cristo
Byron - Childe Harold's Pilgrimage
Tolstoy - Hadji Murat
Kant - Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morales
Melville - Moby Dick
Thoreau - Walden or Emerson - Nature
Kipling - Kim
Conrad - Heart of Darkness or Lord Jim
Mill - On Liberty
Junger - Storm of Steel
Hemingway - A Farewell to Arms
Greene - The Heart of the Matter
Hesse - Siddhartha
Russell - History of Western Philosophy

Optional:
Bodhicaryavatara
The Bhagavad-Gita
The Forest of Thieves and the Magic Garden
Tao Te Ching
Mencius

>> No.3924016
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3924016

>>3924001
>Tao Te Ching
>Optional

>> No.3924030

>>3923759
hehhee

>> No.3924040

>>3924001
JSMill's On Liberty +1
though I would recommend this to human beings in general, and not just me

>> No.3924043

>>3924016
Whenever I include Eastern Philosophy into any of my lists, that generally diverts the thread into off-topic hell. Hopefully this will not be the case.

>> No.3924044

>>3924001

I'm going to order three of these from Book Depository.

Which three would you consider most essential

>> No.3924046

>>3924044
You've read none of them?

>> No.3924050

>>3924044
impossible to say.
I'd say order The Odyssey and The Iliad and The Aeneid and start from the beginning.

>> No.3924058

>>3924046

Well, I've read Hamlet and Heart of Darkness.

>> No.3924070

>>3924044
Any of Judith Butler's books.

>> No.3924071

ITT: insecure manchildren

>> No.3924095

>>3923359
>traditional masculinity's total inadequacy in the twenty-first century
well, there it is. the dumbest statement I have ever seen on /lit/.

>> No.3924096

>>3923341
Reading works of literature written after 1914. What a pleb.

>> No.3924328

>>3924096
why 1914?

>> No.3924332

>>3924328
100 years and therefore public domain? I dont know.

>> No.3924342

Where's your Hemingway you stupid fuck

>> No.3924353

>>3924096
Post your best reads

I respect your choice, I read Almaty exclusively PRE-1950

>> No.3924359
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3924359

Where is Jack London?

>> No.3924370

>no Cormac McCarthy
>no Hemingway
Shit list.

>> No.3924541
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3924541

Manifesto of Futurism
Manifesto of Surrealism
Doctrine of Fascism
Bushido Code
The Immoralist
Confessions of a Mask
The Story of the Eye
Philosophy in the Bedroom
Argonautica
Fuck Yeah Menswear


>>3923333
>High school literature general
>>3923314
>Superficial idea of masculinity general

>> No.3924566

>>3923339
What definition of manly are you using? I'm sure the definition in >>3924541 and in >>3923878 are quite different. What would you propose as a better aesthetic?
>>3923341
>reactionary dribble against modern times
If we're going to set standards, we might as well just ignore everything after Christianity and get right to the good stuff.
>>3923359
What sort of masculinity would you prefer? Please don't say a weak overly moralistic kind
>>3923369
>a intellectual
Also, basing manliness off sex is thrall as fuck.
>>3923442
This. Most of this thread has a superficial as fuck definition of masculinity. "hurr being a man is knowing how to fix a car".
>>3923480
Manly as fuck
>>3923480
Mine, here: >>3924541

>> No.3924569

>>3924370
MY. NIGGUH.

>> No.3924687

What's with the obsession around meditations? Why is stoicism considered so masculine?

>> No.3924735

>>3923339
seriously
oh and Hemingway is awful

>> No.3924740

>>3924735
>Hemingway is awful

Agreed. Anyone that eats the barrel of a firearm is not a man.

>> No.3924750

>>3924735
What's the problem with masculinity, and what would be a better alternative?

>> No.3924880

>>3924541
Do you want to have a chat with me? I'm spanish.

>> No.3924918

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e68c6whsO_E

I'm reading this thread while im listening to his.

>> No.3924921
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3924921

>>3923314

So what's OP's level on Dr. Stone Fag Scale?

>> No.3924926
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3924926

>>3923323

How's your summer break going, Junior?