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/lit/ - Literature


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3920023 No.3920023 [Reply] [Original]

>work
>good

literary life thread

>> No.3920032
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3920032

>> No.3920035

Work is a better use of time than sitting on your fat arse, thinking about (but never actually) writing something.

Think about it.

>> No.3920036
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3920036

>>3920023

More like Neet amirite?

>> No.3920042
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3920042

>>3920035
>

>> No.3920045

Didn't feel like making a new thread so posting it in here.

How does volunteering fit into Marxism. Is providing your labor for free, even if it is for a social cause, wrong? It inevitably provides capital and salary employment for higher ups in the non-profit organization.

>> No.3920051

>>3920045
Be real. You're just doing it for psychological reasons.

>> No.3920054

Accept it as a weakness (in your eyes) of western society. Read Weber and his theories about protestant work ethic if you want to know more about it.

>> No.3920057
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3920057

>> No.3920061
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>>3920035

>> No.3920069

>>3920057
it ain't so black and white though

>> No.3920071

Let's look at a Doctor. The guy is saving people's lives on a daily base while working. Do you consider him a worthless shallow pig who just keeps walking on in the same hamsterball?

>> No.3920078

>>3920071
He's not working for anyone. He gets high off of curing people's ailments. That's his thing.

>> No.3920081

>>3920069
Yeah, it has some yellow for the hair and teeth and some blue in the tears and eyes.

>> No.3920085

>tfw need job to buy books

>> No.3920087
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3920087

>>3920085
>tfw library
>tfw steal
>tfw should have bought all the classics as a teenager instead of blowing your money on weed and vidya

>> No.3920090

>>3920078
Where I live, ,most hospital doctors are in wage labour

>> No.3920091
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3920091

>>3920071
Yes.

Just because you happen to earn capital from a system that also helps people survive doesn't mean you're a holy saint.

Unless he was a billionaire and became a doctor for fun; then he is genuinely a good person.

>> No.3920092

>>3920090
However their checks come in, they are Gods.

>> No.3920093

I frequent both /lit/ and /fit/, and it's funny to see the differences. For example, if someone on /fit/ says they can't afford a gym membership or protein powder there's a stream of people telling said poorfag to get a job. Despite being employed (or full-time students), they all find time to exercise and socialize and they almost never whine about their jobs cutting into their recreation/exercise.

Yet, /lit/ is totally different. Work is seen as anathema to about half the board, and honest, hard workers are scorned as duped players of a sucker's game. Jobs are seen as threats to one's "literary lifestyle"--whatever the fuck that even means. If /fit/izens can work and hit the gym regularly, /lit/izens can work and hit the books regularly.

I, for example, have a full-time job, I'm in a relationship, I go to the gym, and I read regularly. And I still have enough time left over to bullshit on 4chan for an hour or two a day. You all need to manage your time better. Take account of all your hours. Of my friends and acquaintances who whine about how they don't have time, all of them, without exception, sit on the internet or in front of the TV or both for at least 6 hours a day.

Also, get rid of this notion that working is beneath you. If you can't get a good job that pays well and isn't too taxing, it's obvious that you are beneath working.

>> No.3920095

>>3920057

>Why would I want to date 3-d?

Stopped reading right there. The literary lifestyle is not the same as a virgin manchild who jacks off to cartoons.

>> No.3920099

>>3920093
I am above working. Ask me how!

>> No.3920103

sup /lit/, I'm a librarian. where do I fit in? please tell me please /lit/ I want to belong

>> No.3920104

>>3920091
So someone's morality is defined by whether someone is making money for a living or not or not.
What a horrible narrow-minded idea

>> No.3920105

>>3920103
Are you a whore?

>> No.3920108
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3920108

>>3920093
Exercising is stressing your body for a few hours and then you're done: you never have to think about it again for the rest of the day.

Literature, on the other hand, is a cerebral activity: your mind needs to process it and review it for days to come, and flipping burgers or typing mindlessly on a desktop keyboard won't help you.

Plus, the people on /lit/ who complain about jobs also write - they don't just read for an hour before bed like people who go to work do. That's why they don't want a job: it cuts into their true calling/passion, which is writing.

Lifting is a hobby, whereas writing (when you truly care about it) is a spiritual process.

And it would also make sense that most people on /lit/ are Europeans/non-Americans, therefore smarter than the predominantly USA /fit/ (and I'm American).

>> No.3920111

>>3920104
No, but we're taking it from a monetary standpoint, so money will most certainly be in the picture.

>>3920103
Being a librarian is pretty much being a leech, so welcome aboard.

>> No.3920114

>>3920108
>Lifting is a hobby, whereas writing (when you truly care about it) is a spiritual process.

You're full of it. Writing is a hobby, and you're not good at it in any case.

>> No.3920115

>>3920091
I'm not him, but "unless he was a billionaire"? You mean, if he actually had an excessive ammount of money and still went to work, *you* would be sure that he is doing it not for the money. But by thinking that you are discarding that people do work for things other than money even when they are not billionaires. There are several reasons for one to work and to choose one's work, they complement each other. "Fun" is a bad word here as well. Saving lives for fun? Is that what makes a good person? Isn't fun as egoistic, perhaps more, than the greed that leads some to work for the money alone?

Work is much more than a link between an individual and its society, but also the name for all that one does, for all action that is constructive, for one value or another. The conflict raised by the terms and values posed by society to validate work is one problem. One's own reasons to do whatever they are doing is another. The way one combines with the other is yet a third problem.

>> No.3920116

>>3920093
/fit/ also believes that capitalism is natural, social determinism works on a grand scale and is somehow not morally repugnant to nearly every set of morals in every culture, and that the rich got there entirely on their own and didn't have advantages to their life.

>> No.3920117
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3920117

>>3920095
I did the same.

Baudelaire was the farthest thing from a kissless virgin and he's the archetypal literary lifestyler

>> No.3920123
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3920123

>>3920119
>writing is a hobby

>> No.3920118

>>3920103

I read that as

>sup /lit/, I'm a libertarian.

I've been on /pol/ too long.

>> No.3920119
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3920119

>>3920114
>Writing is a hobby

>> No.3920120

>>3920117
Dating and love life shouldn't have an affect on the literary lifestyle regardless. In one way or the other.

>> No.3920121

>>3920118
>>3920118
>I've been on /pol/ too long.

THE HORROR ... the horror ...

>> No.3920124

>>3920119
>>Writing is a hobby

No wonder writers kill themselves.

>> No.3920127
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3920127

>>3920123
>writing is a hobby

>> No.3920134

>>3920108
>Exercising is stressing your body for a few hours and then you're done: you never have to think about it again for the rest of the day.

On the contrary. Ask /fit/. If you are not thinking about your diet and your rest, that hour or two stressing your body is truly worthless. In fact, the real challenge is always in those after hours. Anyone can go to the gym and lift. But some quit because they don't have the discipline to think about it after they quit gym and unhealthy routines will nullify the lifting, making the whole experience frustrating and pointless.

It is not exactly a hobby, though it could be. Same with writing. It's amazing how much physical labour can be spiritual, even if it sounds counter intuitive (we are talking about something above intuition anyway). Some thinkers even argued in favour of it.

>> No.3920136

>>3920115
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of doctors became doctors so they could rip thousands and thousands of dollars off someone who stubbed their toe as they sit at a computer desk all day and do nothing, not because "I like savin' pepal :') "

>> No.3920142

>>3920134
Physical labor is spiritually nourishing, no doubt about it. But there's a reason writers get depressed from their jobs and lifters don't give it a second thought.

>> No.3920145
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3920145

>I am an artist; the world is my billfold.

>> No.3920158
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3920158

>>3920145
ain't he the darndest thing

>> No.3920169

>>3920136
Well, that's just a very naive assumption of yours, with no reason to be whatsoever. Your own blind belief towards the value of money could be compared to that of the idealistic guy who thinks the vast majority of doctors became doctors to save people. Money might be traded with anything 'equally', for 10 bucks is 10 bucks, regardless if you buy two 5 bucks things or five 2 bucks things. However, what we do with our life and our drives has a very different plastic quality to it and you'd be surprised to see how much career choices are not as interchangeable as money is and that there is more at stake than the effort vs cash calculus.

>> No.3920171

>>3920136
And how many doctors/medical students do you know, exactly? Don't you realize how expensive and difficult medical school is? Not to mention that you need 4 years of undergrad, another 4 years on top of that, and at least 2 years of residency (during which you only make like 50k), 4 in most fields, to become a practicing doctor? There are easier ways to make lots of money, get your head out of your ass. A lot of physicians do enter the field to save people.

>> No.3920176

>>3920117
>hurr durr not taking advantage of others is beneath me, let me just live on the largesse of others and masturbate to how intellectual i am even though my ideas of what an intellectual is are steeped in 18th century Enlightenment bullshit that no one has taken seriously in three hundred years

>> No.3920178

>>3920142
Yeah and there is a reason why lifters and athletes fuck up their tendons or whatever and writers don't have that sort of trouble. One stresses the body, the other stresses the mind. Besides the point. Both struggles onward beyond that, even if it hurts.

>> No.3920192

>>3920119
>>3920127
>>3920123

um, all these authors had jobs other than writing prose

>> No.3920196

>>3920057

... yeah, and when was the last time someone lost against an imaginary adversary in an argument you have a total control over?

I'm not sure I understand this picture anyway. Why can't you do all the things on the left AND have a job?

>> No.3920199
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3920199

>>3920176
>saying hurr durr makes peoples' points invalid
>WURK MAN CMON I HAEV T DO IT
>wow can't believe you listen to enlightenment thinkers who are derivative of the ancient greeks who built western thought from the ground up! Come on! Transcend western thought like me who thinks working is harmful to the spirit! Oh wait -

>> No.3920209
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3920209

>>3920192
Kafka:

>For the rest of his life, he complained about the little time he had to devote to what he came to regard as his calling. He regretted having to devote so much attention to his Brotberuf ("day job", literally "bread job").

Joyce: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oDLbjZTh4w

Pynchon: no biography available obv but he quit his engineering job and position in the navy very early on in life and there's no evidence at all he got a job after (and if he did we'd probably know much more about him)

Anyways, my point was that they did NOT think of writing as a job, they agreed that working got in the way of their writing.

>> No.3920210

>>3920196
>Why can't you do all the things on the left AND have a job?

You can, and there is ample time. NEETs argue (for hours on 4chan) that there is not enough time in the day to have a job and also pursue other things. Here, I feel like reiterating that they argue for hours on 4chan about how they don't have time (Celebes [God knows why he even trips, he's totally embarrassing himself] has been at it for an hour in just this thread alone. Check the timestamp.)

>> No.3920215

>>3920209
you're not as talented and they were

in fact you're pretty humdrum and your words are boring

>> No.3920220

>>3920199
man, the ancient greeks were also fucking stupid. it's not their fault, they had little to build on, but most of what they said was pretty damn wrong. liberal arts are actually a lot like science, in that as time progresses, we get a better understanding of ideas, see flaws in our methodology, and improve.

you're the equivalent of a flat-earther. any true intellectual of the twenty-first century has at least a tiny bit of understanding of the way capitalism affects all of us, and the exploitation of some inherent in the comfort of others. yet you seem to be incapable even of that. so honestly, yeah, you aren't any kind of intellectual. you're just some moron with classist ideas that you absorbed from the culture around you.

also, those guys got paid for writing. it was their job. you're just some dumbfuck looking for an excuse for your pretension.

>> No.3920227

>>3920210

I'm not actually from /lit/, but I've been on many boards over the years and it's amusing how nearly each board has a vocal NEET population with board-themed reasons they use to justify their NEET state.

I really don't think any of them have the answer.

>> No.3920265

>>3920209
And translating Brotberuf with day job is inaccurate as well, what you're doing emphasizes the everyday-ness of it while Brotberuf is actually a low-paying job.

>> No.3920272

>>3920215
Why would I be sparklin' up my words on a 4chan shitpost?

And it was really apparent there that you were just trying to personally insult me because you had nothing left to say

>> No.3920285

>>3920220
I'm actually a capitalist. I just think that it's extremely oppressive to writers (and artists to a larger extent) to force them to work (and I went about saying it in a very provocative and hyperbolic way).

>> No.3920310

>>3920285
you are neither of those, and you'll never be either in the twenty-first century if you consider yourself a capitalist and are incapable of understanding the plight of the working class in any way
>>>/pol/
this place might be more friendly to your antiquated ideas

also, did you just see the word capitalism and decide that i wanted you to admit capitalism was good? because you missed the point really fucking hard.
>the exploitation of some inherent in the comfort of others
you loafing around expecting something for nothing means someone has to work extra hard to feed your ass
if you recognize all this, and just don't care, you lack the empathy to make it as a writer anyways

>> No.3920314

>>3920285
>it's extremely oppressive to writers (and artists to a larger extent) to force them to work

oh brother

>> No.3920322

>>3920285
>I just think that it's extremely oppressive to writers (and artists to a larger extent) to force them to work

Yes, it's nice to be a speshul snowflake.

>> No.3920330

>>3920108
>And it would also make sense that most people on /lit/ are Europeans/non-Americans, therefore smarter than the predominantly USA /fit/ (and I'm American).
Can you prove that?

>> No.3920339

are any of you "writing is life, work is oppression" characters above the age of 25, out of school, living independently, and do not come from a rich family? how do you live?

>> No.3920342

>>3920285
Jesus fuck, next time be a communist and fight against oppressions in a broad and relevant sense.

>> No.3920343

>>3920285
capitalism isn't something you believe in it's something you engage in...

>> No.3920355

>>3920310
Why would I care what you wanted me to say?

>you'll never be either in the twenty-first century
>might be more friendly to your antiquated ideas

>being a modernist/progressivst

>>3920314
:)

>>3920322
:)

>>3920330
No, but it sure seems it, from word usage, culture, social/philosophical attitudes, etc.

>> No.3920362

>>3920343
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalist

>> No.3920379

>>3920355
>being an intellectual
>refusing to engage with the ideas of the times
pick one

seriously, just fuck off to >>>/pol/
we don't need your stupid here

>> No.3920391

>>3920339
By clinging parasitically to a university's underbelly.

>> No.3920413

>>3920379
You can engage with the ideas of the times by disagreeing with them, you drone.

I'd also advise against maymay'ing someone off to /pol/ every time they disagree with you politically on 4chan. It's a tad gimmicky, especially after the first time.

>> No.3920423

I wish we were back to medieval times. They only thing they had to worry about was wheat and mongols.

Now we of /lit/ would probably have become monks, so we would spend our days trying to troll each other with clever rhetoric.

Just hope you don't end up in a benedictine monastery, hose guys are nuts.

>> No.3920439

>>3920362
Did you even read the definition before you decided it refuted what I said? Because it actually supports me:

> : a person who has capital especially invested in business; broadly : a person of wealth : plutocrat

idiot

>> No.3920449

>>3920108
Celebes, you are my hero. I'd have a cup of coffee and stroll through the city with no particular place to go anytime.

>> No.3920452

>>3920449
stroll with you*

>> No.3920462

>>3920379
>working class

no fucks given. enjoy your amnesty, amerifat

>> No.3920476

>>3920423
I have been reading pic related and I agree with you so much.

>tfw I'll never become a composer-literai and live in some monk tower like Guillaume de Machaut

>>3920439
There are two definitions there, shitstain

>2 : a person who favors capitalism

How can one be that blind and still operate a computer?

>> No.3920489
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3920489

>>3920476
forgot pic but it's Njal's Saga, highly recommend it.

>>3920449
Aww, thank you anon :') (pic related it's you and I)

>> No.3920497

>>3920379

You sir, are an idiot.

>Intellectuals can only subscribe to "the ideas of the time" which basically means the most popular ideology of the time period.

I swear, some people are completely dense.

>> No.3920529
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>> No.3920537
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>>3920529

>> No.3920539
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3920539

>>3920537

>> No.3920553

>>3920497
>engaging is subscribing
>implying the modern discourse isn't about life in late capitalism and the proper response to it
and i'm the idiot

>> No.3920560
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3920560

>>3920497
It's really hard to swallow the fact that someone could be that autistic while fully believing they're intellectually competent

>> No.3920570

>>3920093
>hour or two a day
There's your problem, people on here spend 6-10 hours here on the regular.

>> No.3920569

>>3920560
says the guy who wishes he lived in 18th century england because real life is hard

>> No.3920577

>>3920023
I'd go fuckin insane if I had only free time. I have to work. It provides a good dichotomy in life.

>> No.3920595

>>3920569
Me not wishing that aside, what does that have to do with intelligence?

>>3920577
You can work in a garden or around your house/your friend's houses. It doesn't have to be for pay.

>> No.3920600

How do you literary lifestyle types support yourself? Serious question, I recently finished high school a year ago and have been considering what I want to do with my life while traveling a bit. An education would be nice, but I don't want the debt. I've also never had a job and don't think I would enjoy one.

>> No.3920606

>>3920600
Listen to autismo numero uno give advice on sustaining a literary lifestyle in the 21st century:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heg8PyPkDaU

>> No.3920608

>>3920600
you'd have to have loving parents and unfortunately for you, you're white trash

>> No.3920621

>>3920606
This is painful to watch.

>>3920608
Upper middle class, actually. Whose money do you think I've traveled on?

>> No.3920627
File: 19 KB, 400x300, bateman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3920627

Wow, /lit/ sure has a problem with tripfags. Most of this thread is filtered.
Just find a job that you like OP. You'll learn something new every day. If not, learn how to put yourself into a trance.

>> No.3920628

>>3920093
you are so great. please judge us

>> No.3920640

>>3920627
Sure wish I could filter anons after reading such drivel as that

>>3920621
why don't you just use their money for food and housing then? You don't need a lot of space and you don't need gourmet. If they give you money to travel on they could easily give you money for a cot and enough food to live on

>> No.3921370

>>3920539

What is the point of these pics? Are supposed to excuse the NEET lifestyle? C'mon, it's bullshit. It's ok if you're supported by family, or can support yourself, but if you're on the dole then you're taking something for nothing from the general population, and that makes you no better than those evil rich. 'Literary lifestyle', my ass. It really doesn't make it any different if you come up with a pseudo-intellectual reasoning for it and dress it in fancy words.

>> No.3921560

>>3920057
needs to be more subtle

>> No.3921616

Even /jp/ers are less pathetic than you clowns.

>> No.3921808

>>3920108


I've always found that the opposite of this is true. When i read for a few hours and then go out to work, i have plenty of time to digest and consider what I've read while plowing or weeding or fertilizing or whatever monotonous, repetitive labor I have to do is going on, and if I'm trying to write it's even better. since the exercise and lack of preoccupying stimuli lets me concentrate on the project while my body does the work automatically. I can't imagine burger flipping would be much different. I'm also sure that there aren't many people who can do a lot of quality writing more than a few hours a day. Also, regular work keeps you on a schedule, and i can tell you from experince that that does you all kinds of good. I guess nobody says you have to get paid for it if you don't want to though, but you might as well.

>> No.3921934

You guys are all just attempting to justify living a stagnant lifestyle. Intellectual pursuits are meant to be a supplement to the thrill of life, not the core of it. One can learn to play a musical instrument, read the classics, learn a new language, paint, write, learn a programming language... but it all pales in comparison to gettin dat green.

Sure, you might say
>but anon! I'm not one of those scumbags that sits at home all day! I go out with friends, get laid, go to school, etc..

but that does not excuse you from denying your divine calling of collecting shekels.

>But I can still experience the joys of life through literature and writing!

No novel can capture the sublime of lifting a fat pack out of walmart and selling each booster at a "discount" in high school parking lots.

No novel can echo the thrill of spray painting pencil shavings green and selling them to 7th graders in dime bags.

Gotta get dat green, mang.

>> No.3921953

>>3921934

It's funny how you can't make the point you're trying to make without wildly misrepresenting and exaggerating the point of your imagined adversary.

>> No.3921976

>>3921934
>spray painting pencil shavings green

Even a seventh grader would see right through that, wouldn't they?

>> No.3922026

>>3921976
Depends on the 7th grader.

There's always a buyer.