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/lit/ - Literature

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3916804 No.3916804 [Reply] [Original]

Judging from several things about his books, mostly the simple characters and horrible prose, I have deduced the following.

He is either:

1. Someone with the mind of a child.
2. A complete retard.

I don't know which it is, but there's something awful about him.

>> No.3916829

>considering having the mind of a child or being a retard as something awful

Shame on you Sunhawk.

Plus, that's like the pot calling the kettle black

>> No.3916846

>>3916804
>hating things because /lit/ tells you to

no, Sunhaw, it is you who is retarded

>> No.3916852

>>3916804
Hate to say this, but for once I agree with you, Suncawk. We might also be overlooking another option:

3. He writes for an audience consisting largely of people with the mind of a child or complete retards.

>> No.3916857

>>3916804
>>3916852
Why don't you like his books? I've never seen any real criticism for any of his stuff apart from 1Q84.

>> No.3916859

>criticizing the prose when it's an imperfect translation from another language

unless you know how to and did read the original Japanese, then I apologize.

>> No.3916864

>1. Someone with the mind of a child.
>2. A complete retard.

Add "Worthless loser" and those are the exact words I would use to describe you.

>> No.3916871

I wonder what would happen if /lit/izens spent one day trying to make substantial posts about books they enjoy instead of obsessing about writers they don't like.

>> No.3916877

>>3916871
Nobody on /lit/ actually reads, they just skim wikipedia articles and parrot opinions they see other people post here.

>> No.3916884

>>3916877
cool projection bro

>> No.3916886

>>3916884
It's true though, most of /lit/ is still in high school.

Haven't you seen how popular those AP English threads are?

>> No.3916891

>>3916886
>most of /lit/ is still in high school

[citation needed]

>> No.3916898

>>3916891
you, for instance

>> No.3916895

>>3916886

I stay here because occasionally I see someone talking about a book and it makes me really
happy

>> No.3916910

I have read several Murakami books, and they are all the same book. Allow me to elaborate.

The protagonist is a very methodical person. He fell in love some time ago with a mysterious woman that made him believe in the supernatural. Said supernatural never really manifests itself to the character. A new woman appears that seems to share the same "magic" background. Pubic hair and handjobs. Forests where the mad people roam. And a disappointing ending.

NONE of the Murakami books I have read have a consequent ending. He builds you up, and all for nothing. And this has nothing to do with the translation.

Besides that, his books are somewhat enjoyable, even just for the sheer ball-density he has, to just ramble on and on about stuff he likes.

(FunFact: this guy was watching a baseball game when he suddenly decided he wanted to be a writer. He's definitely a good typer, but I'd never call him writer).

>> No.3916921

>>3916910
tbh you could play this reductionism game for almost any author.

Just because two books share a couple details doesn't mean they're similar at all. Are you saying 1Q84 and Hard-Boiled Wonderland are the same book?

>> No.3916930

Fact: /lit/ would be all over Murakami's dick if he was less popular

>> No.3916944

he's probably better in Japanese. wait, does he write in English?

>> No.3916946

>>3916921
I'm saying Kafka on the Shore, Sputnik My Love, South of the Border, Tokyo Blues and 1Q84 are the same book with different settings.

Murakami is not really good at experimenting with character development, let alone with his prose.

I'm curious about his other books (specially "the bird that winds the world"), but I fear they will just be the same.

>> No.3916947

>>3916930
I post on /lit/ and I like him, so ha!

>> No.3916950

>>3916947
As do I, but I grew tired of defending him against the assburgers years ago.

>> No.3916959

>>3916946
Those aren't the same book though.

It's like saying James Joyce's books are all the same just because they're about Irish males and deal with religion.

>> No.3916962

>>3916946
Also your criticism of the prose is invalid unless you read it in Japanese.

>> No.3916969

>>3916946
> south of the border
> supernatural

>> No.3916972

>>3916969
He clearly has reading comprehension issues.

>> No.3916976

>>3916962
I think I would be able to recognise changes in the prose through a translation. Changes such as the person, the verbal tense, the metaphores he uses, the themes he talks about.

All of you Murakami lovers, tell me what is it you like so much about him. The girl that introduced me to his books loves everything Japan-related, and that is the only thing I thoroughly enjoy about his books: never have I been closer to be in Japan than in his books.The rest, however...

>> No.3916978
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3916978

>> No.3916987

>>3916976
>I think I would be able to recognise changes in the prose through a translation

top lel, a lot of things in japanese don't really translate to western languages very well

>> No.3916989

>>3916978
Yeah /lit/ only started hating Murakami recently after they noticed he was getting popular.

>> No.3916995

>>3916989
I disliked Murakami before I even came here.

Just sayin'.

>> No.3917002

>>3916989
Murakami was way popular before /lit/ even existed.

>> No.3917001

>>3916995
I hated him before he became popular and it became popular to hate him too.

>> No.3917007

I personally don't hate Murakami, and find his writing somewhat enjoyable, but this planetary ass-licking he is receiving is completely undeserved.

>> No.3917008

>>3916950
>>3916930

and so now you resort to strawman. what worthwhile contributions.

>> No.3917011

>>3917002
Most of his books weren't even translated into English yet before /lit/ existed.

>> No.3917015

>>3916804
He is more than anything an author with a terrible translator.

>2013
>not reading books in the language they were written
>ishygddt

>> No.3917018

>>3917008
I haven't heard any worthwhile criticisms. It's all just "hurr durr all his books have cats and a pretty woman in them that means they're identical in every way and therefore terrible."

>> No.3917023

>>3917015
He has three translators, two are pretty bad but one is alright. I forgot which one was which though.

>> No.3917030

>>3916946
1Q84 had a consequent ending.

Tengo and Aomame finally met then escaped from 1Q84. How much less open-ended can it get?

>> No.3917041

>>3917018
See:

>>3916946

>> No.3917050

>>3917041
I know, case in point. Your only valid "criticism" is that all his books have vaguely similar elements, which is true for almost any author.

Criticizing the prose of a translated book is retarded. What else do you have?

>> No.3917051

>>3917015

>2013
>having time to learn japanese

>> No.3917054
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3917054

>>3917051
>not being a weeaboo with limitless free time

what are you even doing on 4chan

>> No.3917068

>>3917050

>Criticizing the prose of a translated book is retarded

then so is praising.

>> No.3917075

>>3917068
nobody is praising his prose

Japanese people do because apparently he writes with a style that comes across as "western" (I forget why something about his sentence structure or something) but it's not something that translates to other languages.

>> No.3917078

>>3917054

>implying I've not been a weaboo since middle school

>> No.3917114

>>3917075
>>3917071

yes, but I have seen people praise his prose, just as I've seen people praise the prose of countless other translated classics. it seems terribly one sided to only bring that up against negative criticism.

>> No.3917135

>>3917114
cool anecdote bro, still waiting for a legitimate reason to dislike Murakami

>> No.3917147

>>3917011
>Most of his books weren't even translated into English yet before /lit/ existed.
What? Has /lit/ even been here for five years? I'm sure I read most of Murakami's stuff before it's existence.

>> No.3917153

>>3917135

I don't. attacking someone's logic doesn't mean they disagree with your opinion. don't be a retard.

>> No.3917168

Wind-Up Bird is a genuinely good novel. Aside from that I've only read Kafka on The Shore, which wasn't anything special.

>> No.3917186

>>3916804
>horrible prose

Then learn Japanese and read it how he wrote it, asshole.

>> No.3917208

I thought Hard boiled wonderland was actually pretty good...

>> No.3917209

>>3917153
>attacking someone's logic with an anecdotal logical fallacy

yeah ok bro

>> No.3917215

>>3917147
/lit/'s been here since 2003, at that time only Sputnik Sweetheart and his earlier books had been translated.

Kafka on the Shore wasn't translated until 2005.

>> No.3917256

>>3917215
/lit/ was created in 2009 newfag

>> No.3917268

>feeling sorry for someone that is a highly successful author
Keep feeling inferior faggot.

>> No.3917305

>>3917030
The third tome seemed really unnecessary. With the inclusion of a third POV character just to have him killed.

Murakami hard-core fans, this question is for you. DO you know if this guy outlines his stories at all?

>> No.3917313

I loved Wind-Up and liked Norwegian Wood.

Didn't like Kafka, Hard-Boiled or After Dark too much.

>> No.3917612

>>3917256
It was one of the original boards created in 2003.

>> No.3917732

Murakami's novels are basically manga, but in the form of high literature. Make of that what you will.

>> No.3917735

>>3917732
No they aren't you faggot you're only saying that because he's Japanese. Murakami is for westaboos in Japan and his novels are nothing like manga.

>> No.3917738

>>3917612
No it wasn't.
This board is about 3 or 4 years old, only.

>> No.3917741

>>3917732
>high literature

Haha, no. In the form of novels, yes. In the form of "high literature"? No.

>> No.3917756

I would like his stuff a lot more if he didn't feel the need to namedrop music/liquor/clothing brands/styles for no purpose other than that he really likes them

>> No.3918131

>>3916859
>>3916987
>>3917015
>>3917186
>implying there's a whole bunch of cool chinese character puns and metred verse or some such shit to miss out on in murakami's original text
>implying that the entire modern japanese novel-writing tradition, of which murakami is the most recent poster boy, isn't itself based entirely on japanese readings of english texts which were themselves translated from what were originally french and russian texts (e.g., akutagawa and doestoyevsky, tsubouchi and zola)

Translating from japanese to english certainly dilutes the text, but in this case it is really just diluting what's already been diluted. If you think the final step from japanese > english is a problem, then you'd be real bummed to read him in japanese and find out how visible its english/western thought > japanese trackmarks are. In reading him in translation, you really are getting the spirit of the work; it just so happens that it wasn't very good work to begin with. murakami is probably so loved because he fashions the most convincing replica of western transcendentalist thought from the unwieldy bricks of the highly concrete japanese language--he's an engaging conduit to western thought for japanese readers, and a flattering trick for shitty western critics, but at the end of the day, still just a replica. the ideal murakami novel is one written by murakami in a western language--but it still probably wouldn't be very good. when we translate murakami from jap to eng, we are in some ways translating him /back/ into english. when we translate murakami, we don't lose much because murakami's writing is essentially the act of translation.

>> No.3918137

i remember reading kafka on the shore when i first started really getting into reading what a piece of trash

>> No.3918676

>>3917756
westaboo.

It's like namedropping your nintendo/sony/tokyo flash/pokky/etc.

>> No.3918714

>>3918131
Well said.

On top of that, I can't believe there isn't one bilingual Japanese and English speaker on /lit/ who has read Murakami to shed light on this for us.

I don't imagine we westerners are missing much with our "diluted" translations since in Japan Murakami isn't taken so seriously in terms of literature.
>inb4 talk of Nobel prize

And I like him for the record.

>> No.3918718

is his style something like new sincerity?

>> No.3918720
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3918720

Can't believe I finished reading this garbage. Every time the italicized phrase "little one" appeared I felt like punching myself. Absolutely loved Hard Boiled Wonderland, though.

>> No.3918730

>>3918714
Just a thought on this: Last semester I had the opportunity to be a conversation partner for a Japanese woman. She had mentioned liking the English language more, and when I asked why she said that it was much more expressive than her native tongue. I wonder if the filip side, then, is that their words are much more "packed"; english has many words for a singled idea, but, perhaps Japanese has many ideas in one word. I don't know Japanese, but that's what I got from a Japanese woman. Can anyone speak on this?

>> No.3918766

>>3917738
This. It was added with sci and diy

>People trying to act like they know things when they don't.

>> No.3918767

>>3918720

What about 'not a question'. Urgh.

What a fucking goddam fucking hack.

>> No.3918791

What you did was induce, not deduce.

You are in no place to call anyone a retard. Or, maybe you're in the only place.

>> No.3918813
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3918813

Superior Murakami

>> No.3918819

>>3918813
Ryu is just a Nipponese Bret Easton Ellis.

>> No.3918823

>>3918819
Ellis was writing in the 70's, even though he was born in the 60's? Wow.

If anything, it'd mean Ellis is a white Murakami.