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/lit/ - Literature

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3911033 No.3911033 [Reply] [Original]

Is Machiavelli's "The Prince" satire?

>> No.3911041

no

>> No.3911042

Of course. No one without modern humanistic worldview could ever possible have written a book. Or it would've banned and every copy would've been burned by the thought police. Listen to your teacher.

>> No.3911044

>>3911033
Not at all. It's not even literature. It's an instruction booklet meant to gain Machiavelli favor with his lord.

>> No.3911046

>>3911042
Machiavelli is the true face of humanism, really.

>> No.3911050

>>3911046
+1

>>3911042
Not my teacher that said that. Do teaching establishments treat it as a parody?

>> No.3911053

>>3911046
He is. Humanism meant a very different thing during the Renaissance. Then it somehow became a secular Christianity.

>> No.3911055

If you discuss the satirical nature of The Prince you should feel embarrassed to be a faggot pleb

>> No.3911059

They say Rousseau came up with this (ridiculous) idea.

>> No.3911060

>>3911059
Love to see a citation for this.

>> No.3911065

>>3911060
Nevermind. Saw it cited on wikipedia.

Rousseau never uses the word "satire" though, and doesn't exactly describe the book as being such.

>> No.3911068

>>3911065
>Rousseau never uses the word "satire" though, and doesn't exactly describe the book as being such.
This is why I said "they say". I really don't know if it's true. I went through their source a bit and it didn't really say that either. So I guess we can blame OP's professor after all.

>> No.3911092

>>3911044
/thread

>> No.3911118

Of course not. Have you considered that there is no single true political system, and his Discourse doesn't invalidate the Prince?

>> No.3911369

>>3911033
http://www.cracked.com/article_18787_6-books-everyone-including-your-english-teacher-got-wrong.html

>> No.3911381

>>3911369
>cracked
hahaha

>> No.3911405

>>3911369
>cracked

nope

>> No.3911434

>>3911044
sorry, I don't know much about the history of it. But I though it was only published posthumously because of it's inflammatory content in regards to people in power positions (such as a lord). I may be way off, again I don't know as much as I should about it.

>> No.3911451
File: 18 KB, 438x428, 1360330235050.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3911451

>>3911369
>cracked

Oh lawdy, that's a good one. You nearly had me there.

>> No.3911479

If you only read the Prince, no.

If you study the historical context of when it was published and also read the Discourse On Livy, than it appears more like a subversive text. Princes already had the knowledge that was written in the book, so there was little to gain of them reading it. The public, however, could gain something by reading it because it wasn't common knowledge for them. This is why he is referred to as the first modern political thinker/philosopher.

>> No.3911483

>>3911369
>Actually, Machiavelli was totally just trolling. Far from being the spiritual patriarch of the Gambino crime family, he was a renowned proponent of free republics, as noted in a few obscure texts called everything else he ever wrote.
10/10 top le.

>> No.3911503
File: 145 KB, 600x600, Snoop-Dogg-Transformation.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3911503

>>3911369
shoulda just called 'em lions friedrich..
shoulda just called 'em lions..

>> No.3911516

>>3911479
It was a interpretation based on historycal info. If you call that common knowledge to the princes..

>> No.3911728

>>3911046
>tfw all that Machiavelli wanted was for republics of virtue and courage to take over
>tfw we hated him only because he told the truth about the world

;_____;

>> No.3911737

>>3911044
It's probably half and half.

Half what he really thought about the world, and half trying to revamp his career (though probably not to the Medici since they already tortured him for alleged sedition). He was probably trying to be noticed by another lord hoping to be picked up by someone else other than the Medici.

>> No.3911744

>>3911369
>anything on cracked

>> No.3913122

>>3911744
Cracked can be ... OK.

But not that article.

They really simplified everything and obviously just took random re-interpretations of different books and went with them without verifying anything or know anything in general about them.

The best example of how and why Machiavelli could have been a republican and someone who analyzed power in the way that he did, is a question of when: ancient Rome.

Power games are a constant part of republican government. This is the only kind of government that takes them into question and in which founders had done something about it, not just stating a moral ideal but balancing power considering people will naturally do.