/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.3896253]

/lit/, im pretty disillusioned right now.

Its one thing to read philosophy or literature that argues for ideas that are known for being "edgy" or depressing, but another to internalize them.

I mean I had a class last quarter where we came to the conclusion that epistemological nihilism or strict skepticism was correct, and everyone took this as something that was interesting or whatever, but for me it was a big deal. This among other classes that taught about existentialism or skepticism in general.

How the fuck do you guys go on when you actually live these philosophies rather than just read them? I mean it isnt a joke that meaning isnt inherent in things, when you decide this is true you lose your drive for anything because any reason you give is as shallow as anything else. Meaning can be created, but the opposite ideal of that meaning can also just as easily be accepted. Anything can be adopted and just as quickly forgotten.

[Anonymous No.3896264]

i felt the same way for a while, but decided to give up that mindset. it was a frustratingly useless way of thinking.

"shallow" or "deep" - what's the fucking difference? all that really matters at the end of the day is that you're satisfied with what you do with yourself.

keep those reward hormones flowing 'til you kick it and can stop giving a shit until the universe experiences heat death, and then forever afterward.

[Anonymous No.3896266]

its called being 18 OP - you'll grow out of it

[Anonymous No.3896275]

>>3896264
I shouldnt have used the word shallow, thats misgiving considering what im saying about value theory.

What I mean about this value system is that any reasoning you have for any action is "shallow" because it has no backing, no real backing. If you were having an honest debate with yourself and told yourself "im giving up this value for the opposite", the other you could say nothing, they have no argument to persuade you one way or the other.

I guess a better word might be bankrupt.

>>3896266
It must be hard trying to look so attractively bored all the time.

[Anonymous No.3896278]

>>3896253
Epistemological nihilism is to deny knowledge exists. And how did you come to the conclusion that was correct? Do you think about things with the same logical examples you learned in class and think "but knowledge doesn't really exist so this isn't meaningful or real."

Okay well think back to what you learned in class because I have news for you. There's always a counter argument to any philosophy. Nothing in philosophy is correct, there is just a tree of different major perspectives that you can take on the world, and the goal of a truth seeker like myself, is to understand and internalize them all.

And also stop using the word "edgy," I feel like ridicules people like me.

[Anonymous No.3896287]

>>3896278
Oh and just for you. This is what I'm talking about.

http://wadsworth.cengage.com/philosophy_d/special_features/ext/delivery/fields.html

[Anonymous No.3896290]

>>3896278
The acceptance of truth being a plurality is exactly what I mean! Anything can be traded, its just a tool and nothing else. I KNOW this is supposed to be uplifting, another perspective to enrich and strengthen myself, but it doesnt, I just feel no drive because I so very frequently switch up my values.

Mainly the way we came to that conclusion was that there was no way to argue anything else. It seemed to be a default position that another argument had to replace, only nothing could.

And to answer your question, yes I generally do think "I really dont know so this isnt X".

[Anonymous No.3896291]

>>>/adv/

this is the literature board

[Anonymous No.3896293]

>>3896253
Time to read Kierkegaard and learn about faith.

[Anonymous No.3896304]

>>3896290

You're right, truth is a lie and God is dead. Might as well an hero, OP. Its the one true path.

[Anonymous No.3896310]

it's only considered edgy by retards. most intellectuals have gone through that phase, however long lasting.

[Anonymous No.3896317]

>>3896290
Well I didn't take your class so I wouldn't know how you guys came to this black hole of a conclusion but it sounds interesting.

I never really found nihilism to be my philosophy. I've most gone with Descartes "I think therefore I am."

The "awareness of awareness" is what we are composed of and that i've been satisfied with that for many years.

[Anonymous No.3896318]

>>3896293
This nigga gets it.

[Anonymous No.3896322]

>>3896253
>Meaning can be created, but the opposite ideal of that meaning can also just as easily be accepted.

This was where you went wrong. You need to go back and read Kant. Everyone should read Kant. We dealt with this.

[Anonymous No.3896329]

>>3896318
If you think Nietzsche is hard... http://fuuka.warosu.org/lit/thread/2053284#2053891

[Anonymous No.3896330]

You've been tricked into thinking you can choose your value as you wish, OP. But that's false, you've internalized what you have internalized because of your upbringing and your living experience since your birth. It will take a great deal of work on yourself to really "accept" new values of your own.

Merely arguing sides of a philosophical debate is a hobby these day, it has no relevance or signifiance whatsoever. Truly changing your own beliefs with some depth is another matter (and even that could be considered merely scratching the surface).

TL;DR: Stop being such an amateur, OP. Either stop caring and embrace the delightful hobby of debating philosophy without remorse, or start a soul-crushing existential journey of inner self-enlightement (or anything between those extremes). Also, I love the way your OP pic conveys your sense of helplessness and despair. Very good feelpic in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.3896350]

This is the same fucking conversation that gets spun around over and over that at this point its unbelievable that people are still having it.

Protip: when you start rambling about concepts that are clearly far beyond your wheelhouse, you turn out something like OP's post: an incomprehensible ball of shit. Wanna talk about meaning? Define meaning first.

Now, OP, back to your impenetrable wall of bullshit. "Meaning can be created, but the opposite ideal of that meaning can also just as easily be accepted. Anything can be adopted and just as quickly forgotten."

This is your fucking choice to believe that. Everything comes down to choice when you get to the level of abstract beliefs.

Lets start with a list of things nihilism, is not, shall we?

Nihilism is NOT the belief that "nothing matters"

Nihilism does NOT require you to wrench and squeeze meaning out of things because everything is inherently meaningless

Nihilism is NOT the philosophy of depression

Nihilism is NOT even a philosophy except when being used as a tool against people who bring up fallacious ideas of "objectivity"

[Anonymous No.3896355]

>>3896293
I have read Kierkegaard, he is a genius but he does not at all solve my problem. not at all.

>>3896304
It isnt that truth is a lie, what im saying is, from what I cant tell, truth is now something that loses all its enlightenment romanticism and becomes very raw and depressing. What im trying to ask is, I know all of you know about this, but for those of you who internalize this rather than just read it, what the fuck do you do. I swear to god it feels like I have adhd, or bipolar, the way my values just flip on a dime now.

>>3896317
I dont really agree with Descartes because of Heidegger. Even if you disagree with him he shows that Descartes isnt as untouchable as once thought.

>>3896322
I have read Kant, what are you trying to bring up.

>>3896330
No, you get what im saying but in a weird light. I know my upbringing, my past makes me. What of it, I accept that, how can I not? It already is. That doesnt shift the burden, it doesnt get rid of tomorrow (god this sounds so blah but im so drunk).

Im not just arguing, I swear to you by fucking god that this is something im really dealing with here.

I cant stop caring, I think. It feels like apathy is something that only comes along to remind to care more. I honestly dont know how to convey this, but I want to care no matter how bad it gets.

Journey of self-enlightenment, thats what im talking about. With how my values are right now, this moment, this feels ridiculous. I take two steps down the path west, and then turn around and the path is still there, no matter the consequences.

And thanks, it is a nice pic.

[Tao Lin No.3896358]

>>3896355
I'm sorry you're incapable of faith. You are in hell.

[Anonymous No.3896361]

>>3896350
I know this is my choice, while at the same time my upbringing has led me to this. Whatever the case I take responsibility for it like I said here
>>3896355

You know you get so angry over a buzzword that it becomes impossible not to see your ego in this. I say this with the best intentions. Why are you angry at me? Just take a second to breath, to not speak (I know this might infuriate you more but please just listen), and then just let the anger go. Your points will still stand and affect me, I assure you. As of right now though, you havent really said anything to me. You can forget the catch phrase nihilism, my problem is still here.

[Anonymous No.3896362]

>>3896358
What are you taking about? All I have is god damn faith. What are you talking about?? Did you not read what I said? This IS the crisis.

[Anonymous No.3896363]

>Meaning can be created, but the opposite ideal of that meaning can also just as easily be accepted. Anything can be adopted and just as quickly forgotten.
This is a bit of misconception that hit's the postmodern collapse of the metanarritive, which can certainly be seen as the triumph of some domains of radical skepticism

"everything is subjective", even "truth is subjective" does not mean everything has an equal truth claim or that radical skepticism has obliterated practical knowledge claims.
These phrases intended to foreground what had been backgrounded; the implicit value premises in many overarching claims, particularly ones key to meta-narratives; because this challenges the assumptions we have taken without scrutiny, and forces us to justify things.
Working criterion based on some formal reasoning then can help us differentiate Don Quixote from twilight even though 'Taste is Subjective' is can be seen as truistic
- although the problem of expressing this in language is something Wittgenstein goes into and is good for.

however, let's link this idea to motivation and personal meaning...

[Anonymous No.3896365]

>>3896362
No, no it isn't. Very few people experience the crisis of faith. Most of them are too dumb to fuck, or have faith that cannot be shaken by the absence of a master signifier available to human knowledge. You're experiencing a mental illness on top of an awareness of the intransigence of meaning.

[Anonymous No.3896367]

>>3896355
Your class came to a shitty conclusion. There are plenty of great arguments against nihilistic skepticism. Don't let it get you down, there is still more to learn and more arguments to consider, we haven't finished this debate yet.

[Anonymous No.3896368]

>>3896363
Youre not getting at what im saying! Yes, the reality of things has been made apparent or whatever and now we have to justify ourselves when we act (just like we always have but now we dont have romantic ideals to lean on), but without those ideals we have a problem because it seems that there is no way to justify oneself. I have not read Wittgenstein

[Anonymous No.3896372]

>>3896365
Youre assuming quite a lot about me. If I have no way to justify myself because of "mental illness and intransigence of meaning" then what im left with is faith or ignorance, and im dealing with faith right now.

>>3896367
Even if you gave me that argument, which would be met with a great sigh of relief, I still have everything else to consider.

[Anonymous No.3896373]

>>3896363
I think it might be a similar kneejerk response to some common existential/nihilist tenets that motivation should dissipate or that despair is a logical response, but I don't think this follows

Any comprehensive value deconstruction worth it's salt cannot possibly value negative (death/misery) over positive without undermining itself.
Some responses like Camus' favouring of the postive (rebellion against the absurd) is less of a formalist argument, because one of those can't be made in regards to values, and more of an expressive statement of how it would be to feel and act in this state of rebellion

I also don't agree that meaning 'can be created'. When we define ourselves for Satre and are under the yoke of freedom and self-definition, we don't just ladidah some supposed truth and act, reasonably, as if it is true. What he means that is between two choices you are faced with in the context of reality, without objective values to make the choice for you, the choice becomes and act of self-definition and selecting values, not making them up
This is his example of looking after your sick mum and being a french rebel in WWII. you can't do both, but no one value of either choice can really trump the other based on his existentialism.

[Anonymous No.3896374]

>>3896373
Why cant we value the negative (death/misery)?

[Anonymous No.3896375]

>>3896372
You're mistaking the symptoms of illness for the experience of faith. You're experiencing both, but you're in confusion.

[Anonymous No.3896377]

>>3896363
Basically this.

[Anonymous No.3896380]

>>3896368
Okay. Slow down, I'll try to help.

What did you use to justify yourself before? Why, precisely, are those things no longer viable?

[Anonymous No.3896381]

>>3896361
Find a simple (manual or involving physical work if you can) activity you enjoy and practice it regularly. Try to deepen your relations with the people around you by listening more to them and caring more about them, trying to guess what they feel but don't (or can't) tell. Engage in a very demanding and technical intellectual pursuit maybe, such as math, were there is fun in solving problem even if you know the validity of the concept you are manipulating is dubious at best. This should distract you long enough. Either that, or try to become a knight of faith/übermensch/man touched by grace (depending on wether you prefer Kierkegaard, Nietzsche or Pascal). You will probaby fail, but it will keep you busy your whole life, so it's good anyway.

I have a good one: read Balzac's "L'élixir de longue vie" and try to live like Dom Juan Belvidero in this short story. Would be a suitable goal for someone crippled by inability to believe or ascribe value to things.

[Anonymous No.3896382]

>>3896375
Thats quite possible that im mixing them together, but honestly if thats true there is no way for me to know one way or the other, or anyone else for that matter.

How fitting Mr. Captcha
Issac sonemoo

[Anonymous No.3896383]

A Nihilist Parable

Arminass stepped out of his ship. Unfortunately it was ruined. He set the self-destruct mechanism and walked toward the break in the trees.

The people of the village found him very strange, but eventually came to accept him. In his third week there, the entire village went into an uproar. A girl was pregnant with a young child that had no father.

"Kill it," said Arminass. "Don't make the mother a slave to it, or it a slave to life."

"You're insane!" said the Priest. "Its life is precious too."

Arminass pulled back his sleeve and sliced open his arm. Blood flowed freely. "Material is the means, not the end," he said. Then he asked for a glass, and holding it with his bleeding arm, urinated in it.

Then he drank the urine.

"The world is one continuous thing," he said. "My urine is not poison, nor is my life the only one. Truth is a way we describe accurate predictions or observations of this world. An unwanted baby is extra flesh. I am not concerned with the individuals, or the whole."

The town hipster sauntered over. "Well why don't you kill yourself then?"

Arminass sliced the hipster's head from his shoulders. "I would rather kill you," he said. "I can do useful things besides dying."

Two days later the town was attacked by bandits. The town elders said a defense had to be raised. "I can't do it," said a young man. "I can't kill."

"You are not killing," said Arminass. "You are pruning leaves from a tree, and the tree still lives."

An old man tottered over. "I am so afraid to die," he said. "It hides on my shoulder like a vulture."

[Anonymous No.3896384]

>>3896253
You are still here, wanting things and listening to people rather than white noise. Like it or not, you're already not living the life of an epistemological nihilist. And that's exactly how you will move on; though there is indeed no outside reason reason to choose Occam's razor, the axioms of logic, or any sort of ethics, you're already here, so what are you going to do about it?

As you know as an epistemological nihilist, there is no way to find meaning. The only meaning there is for you is that which you just happen to have right now, and there can be no rational argument to convince you of another meaning. As you can see, doing nothing is boring and depressing, so you might as well do what you want and believe what you have cause to believe, given what you already know as well as you can know anything.

[Anonymous No.3896387]

>>3896383

"It is better to die for something, than simply to die. And what has your life meant?" said Arminass.

"I've been the head rear-left-screw-tightener at the factory for 41 years."

Arminass handed the man a sword. "All your life people have told you what to do. Now you must tell yourself what you care about enough to die for."

The bandits were beaten back and the dead buried. The Priest was drenched in tears at the sight of so many coffins. "Oh, what a tragedy is war!"

Arminass stabbed the Priest and let blood flow freely. "Without war, we never would have defeated the bandits, but they would have lived among us like parasites. With war, the town is healthier, we survive and move on! More will be born to replace those."

Sure enough, in some years there were more born.

Arminass worked at the library shelving books. People said scornful things to him because he did not earn much money.

One day there was a nuclear war. The banks collapsed, the government went away and anarchy reigned over the land. "Now I earn as much money as any of you," said Arminass, laughing.

When bandits attacked again, he told the town elders: "A gun makes any man likely to be victor, because if he shoots enough, he will hit someone. When they come with swords, let us fight with swords!"

In the next battle over half of the town was killed. "What ill advice he has given," murmured one woman, her face hidden behind a veil.

"You won't know that until you see what the future holds," said Arminass. "We have lost those who could not figure out how to fight off starving, illiterate, not very bright bandits. The half we have left is the better half."

[Anonymous No.3896388]

>>3896374
we can't value anything.
We can prefer it though, but for me I think there is a problem with the attributeless nature of death ie it has no personal phenomenological features to attach values or preferences to.
Other negative states like misery I think have a place in Pref. Hedonism as a whole but they would probably have to be instrumental

[Anonymous No.3896390]

>>3896387

The people of the town came to trust Arminass more and more. He told them when to plant, what to plant, and stopped them from giving away food to wandering mendicants. He made sure they killed all of the people who lived nearby who could not make a town as well functioning as their own town. Some of the women cried, but others looked at Arminass and said, "This is a Man."

The next generation of the town was fruitful, and two decades later Arminass faced the best army in the country.

"We are so powerful, we do not have to engage the others," said one man.

"But we will," said Arminass.

"Why?" cried the daughter of the Priest.

"Because we represent a better order. Look at these people. They strip the trees bare, they live in filth, they have no letters or music to speak of."

"But that's how they want to live," she shot back.

"It's not how I want this country to be," said Arminass. "And since I trust myself, I will do everything I can to crush them."

The people of the town waged a brutal war against the enemy, and when it was over with, there were many casualties but the town controlled the country.

"What do we do now, Arminass?" said the people of the country.

They fixed everything as it was, and got the machines running again and sent people to work. Soon most people had food, shelter and some money left over for entertainment. They began to grow complacent.

"Now it is time for war," said Arminass.

"War against whom?" said the grandson of the Priest.

[Anonymous No.3896392]

>>3896390

"War against ourselves," said Arminass. "Modern society has brought you no happiness. We were told the machines would make it so we have to work only three hours a day, but instead we work ten. We were told having a big society with people from all over the world would bring us interesting other cultures, but most are happy with our own. We shall wage war against this stupid system."

"But it is a just system!" said the daughter of the Priest.

"Kill her," said Arminius. "Justice accomplishes nothing. War and planting-time accomplishes something, and if it is not just, the world keeps turning. But we are frozen in time when we worry too much about whether our actions are just."

"We will work with you toward a solution," said the bureaucrats. Arminass had them killed.

"We will work with you toward a solution," said the politicians. Arminass had them killed.

"Together we can make a change," said the religious leaders, before they were killed.

Arminass called the working people together. "The old way does not work anymore. We do not need a society where we fight each other for the privilege of wealth. Our bureaucrats make sure we all have 'justice,' but the price is that we spend longer at work while people fill out paper."

The bureaucrats were all fired and sent to work on the farms. Most died of exhaustion, heat prostration, or medical ailments they did not know they had. Arminass lined them up and asked who had complaints. They all did, except for a handful of people who were suntanned and happy. Arminass had the rest killed.

They took the machines to one part of the center city. Those machines ran all day and all night, with people working four-hour shifts and then going home. "Get to know your families," said Arminass. "None of us knows how much time he has left."

He took all of the costumes, novelties, finery, and entertainment products to the town dump, and burned them. "We do not need these things," said Arminass.

[Anonymous No.3896396]

>>3896392

bitch pastebin.com

[Anonymous No.3896397]

>>3896395

"I like to climb trees," said the warrior. "I like to walk on the beach with my wife. I like to play with my children, and build furniture for my neighbors. And I like to be a good fighter."

Behind him was a grocer. "What do you enjoy?" said Arminass.

"I like to know what is good meat, and what is bad. I like to pick out the good vegetables and throw away the rotten. I like to make sure that the people who come to my store go home with good food. I like to go to the beach, and I like to tend to my garden."

Next to him was a leader. "What do you enjoy?" said Arminass.

"I like to know the reasons why things turn out the way they do. I like to find out why people act the way they do. I like to solve problems, and have people come to me when they need me to do that. I like to play music, and take my family to the forest where we camp and look up at the eternal stars."

Arminass looked over the people. "As these are, so are you all. What you do for all of us is part of what you do for yourselves. That makes sense, since you are part of the group that is all of us. I want you do to what you enjoy, and thus not require money or my sword to motivate you."

The people went back to their homes, stores, fields, pubs and posts. Except one.

"And what do I do?" said the surly voice of the small man. He was short and stout, was not very smart, not very good looking, not very good at anything, so he did odd jobs around the grocer and the town square.

Arminass poured two beers. He handed one to the surly small man. "You work odd jobs, and do what others tell you to do, and do not worry about the problems of this town," said Arminass.

"That's what I always did," said the small man. "You're just like the rest of them, keeping me down. If it weren't for you, I would be rich."

[Anonymous No.3896395]

>>3896392

He and his disciples went to those who sold things and destroyed all the products which did not have a survival function. "Meaning is not found in coins and what they can buy," said Arminass.

The disciples went far and wide through the land and counted the people. "We have many people now, Arminass," they said.

"How many are smart enough to understand what we must do?" he said.

"Only about one for every ten," they said.

"Take this knife," he said to each disciple. "Go to those who do not understand and promise them free beer for the rest of their lives if they will let you sterilize them so they cannot breed. Take the chronically poor, the criminal, the drug addicts, the priests and the perverts and drown them in the swamp."

They smashed every television and cash register, and took the plastic toys away from the children. All empty buildings were destroyed, and any roads that were not necessary were replanted with trees.

"Our government is nearly bankrupt," cried the elders.

"Good," said Arminass. "We do not need an economy. From now on, we do things because they must be done to keep our society going."

"But what will we do with our time?" said the people. "There is no structure to our social lives."

"You will do whatever you need to," said Arminass. "You will meet some people, and you will find friends. But ultimately you should realize that you are alone in this life, and socializing will not substitute for having something that makes you feel your life is worth living."

Arminass fixed the people with a fierce stare, and suddenly they fell into a trance.

A warrior was standing nearby. "You are a warrior," said Arminass. "What do you enjoy?"

[Anonymous No.3896399]

>>3896397
No-one is reading this. Stop ruining the thread, this is basically just spam.

[Anonymous No.3896401]

>>3896397

Arminass pointed across the square. "That grocer was an orphan who had no money, but now he has a store. Did you have two parents?"

"Yes," said the small man.

Arminass waved to the town policeman. "That man started out life as a small baby, fighting for life, blue in the face. Were you born normally?"

"Well, yes I was," said the man.

Arminass thought, told the man to drink his beer, and then pointed to a woman who was tending small children. "Her husband died and left her with no money, but now she has her own store of metalworks and a healthy family. Is your wife alive?"

"Why, yes she is," said the man.

Arminass turned to him and said, "You can see there is a reason why you are what you are, and it is not that I kept you down, or anyone else did. You are at the position life has selected for you. What you should do is rejoice in your freedom from having to worry about the complications of life, and spend your time enjoying it. In fact, I suggest you drink and be merry."

The man drank. "Why are you not drinking?" he asked.

"I must consider the safety of the town," said Arminass. "If tigers show up and I am drunk, I cannot stop them. If a fire breaks out and I am drunk, I cannot smother it. If bandits appear and I am drunk, I cannot fight. This is why you should be glad not to have to serve as I do."

The man considered Arminass. "But isn't that boring?"

"No. It is what life made me to do, and I find that while I would like to be drunk sometimes, I feel better if I am doing what I am made to do, so that my life may have meaning."

The grandson of the Priest came up to Arminass. "You are right on time," said Arminass.

"Why is that?" said the grandson.

[Anonymous No.3896402]

>>3896390
So basically Arminass is an asshole (on top of having a particularly ridiculous name) that thinks he knows better and has so much to do of his life while he is just as clueless as everyone else. He is Napoleon but not as bright and nowhere near as classy. Thank you from steering me away from nihilism, anon.

[Anonymous No.3896404]

>>3896401

"There is no perfect town, nor would we want there to be," said Arminass. "A healthy town needs no Priests, but it needs for there to be error at every step. When the town ceases to be healthy, that error rears its ugly head, and the generation at the time takes care of it. If at some point the people are too weak to overcome it, the town has reached old age and must die."

"That's a lie," said the grandson. "There could be a perfect town."

"There could," said Arminass. "But then it would fall apart inward, since there would be nothing to strive for, no reason for exchange of blows or leaders."

The grandson stabbed him and Arminass coughed blood. "That is your purpose here. It is now time for me to die," said Arminass.

"But what are we to do for a leader?" said a town elder.

"One will come along," said Arminass. "And if he does not, the town is old, and like me, must die."

Arminass died.

[Anonymous No.3896405]

>>3896380
I dont have the energy to go over all of it but ill go over a big one.

One major thing was wanting to help people. To create something that inspires, to go into politics to help directly, whatever.

Now that seems impossible. At any moment I can, and do, flip my values, so what was once worth advising no longer is. Mostly though while in conversation with someone itll happen at once, both values coming up and both seeming reasonable.

So a big value was helping people.
Now someone today comes to ask for help, lets say advice on what to do with their parents dying. At the same time I feel I should tell them that this is horrible, that they are losing so much because they care so much and I too feel so much for them, but at the same time I want to let them know that NO, you cannot face death like this, how are you going to face your own death if you act this way with other's death? You need to embrace death so that you can live a better life and at the same time not die in some hellish psychological panic attack. And so on.

>>3896381
I do need to exercise and plan on it. I tried listening to people more last night with my two hallmates, and they told me, while drunk, that they both raped a girl. Im not with the best people and desperately, fucking desperately, want to find new people who give a damn about anything that matters. Im dealing with writing and philosophy right now for an intellectual pursuit. Also piano.

The knight of faith...what a pleasure that would be. Ill give that story I read, I havent read a good piece of fiction the last couple of books.

[Anonymous No.3896408]

What you have to do is stop caring about the modern theories of man. They are vapor and nothing.

You should stand by the roads and look and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is, and walk in it and find rest for your soul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jkos3nMxQuk

[Anonymous No.3896413]

>>3896402
Also, reading anon's nihilist pseudo-zarathustrian copypasta made me think of an actual novel to help OP's problem: Anna Karenina. Levin seems to have a problem rather comparable to OP's at some point, but at the end of the novel he comes accross a magnificent solution that fuses with the very core of his life. The trick is that what matter is your way of life more than your rationally or not so rationally held convictions about this or that.

[Anonymous No.3896414]

>>3896384
I dont think me wanting things makes me a not-epistemological nihilist

The problem is that the values I have right now are conflicting and very, very consistently and frequently in flux. I cant get anything done anymore. Even right now during this 4han conversation I want to fucking run out of my apartment and do something else, I most likely will.

I know doing nothing is bored. Im not lethargic, im the opposite, I gave a damn about fucking everything. Because of that though im paralyzed and mentally exhausted. I mean everyday I get migraines that make me nearly or do vomit. Whatever that means.

[Anonymous No.3896417]

>>3896405
>Now someone today comes to ask for help, lets say advice on what to do with their parents dying. At the same time I feel I should tell them that this is horrible, that they are losing so much because they care so much and I too feel so much for them, but at the same time I want to let them know that NO, you cannot face death like this, how are you going to face your own death if you act this way with other's death? You need to embrace death so that you can live a better life and at the same time not die in some hellish psychological panic attack. And so on.

That isn't an exisestential crisis, that is a decision. Which do you think would benefit them more? The answer will surely be the first, as in moments of tragedy what people need most is kindness and tenderness, nothing can really help the raw shock of those moments, but good friendship (even from strangers, especially from strangers!) can be the best thing amongst a series of lousy options. The second option will upset them, and fail to imprint anything due to how tender and hurt they are already feeling: they may get angry and lash out, or cry, or ignore you: it wasn't the right time.

Where is the subjectivity here?

[Anonymous No.3896418]

>>3896414

You need a fucking therapist. Thats about it.

[Anonymous No.3896422]

>>3896408
Im studying Zen, but it only becomes another fold of the problem. Everything is just another tool but instead of helping it only makes me more paralyzed.

>>3896413
ill do that


/lit/ im going to finish my alcohol and go on a walk. Im also going to call back this therapist tomorrow if hes in and set up an appointment.

Anyway thanks for talking to me. The funny thing is, I feel like someone is shaking their head right now thinking im being over dramatic about juvenile shit, like im making it up, but I know what im dealing with and know this isnt anything less than sincere.

Im not really sure what im saying anymore and wish I could leave this thread on a some beautiful note.

[Anonymous No.3896431]

>>3896414
If it makes you feel better, I've been like this my whole life. It's why I never had a teenage existential crisis, I've always been this way. There are plenty of ways to cope, even if its just a passing thing, or something longer.

My advice is to get outside and go for a walk. Make it a long one. Somewhere you've never been before can be nice.

Another good one is to read a new book. Understand that right now your brain is misfiring and you need to look after yourself for a little while before you can think straight. Focus on one, pleasant thing if you can, and do that.

[Anonymous No.3896433]

>>3896431
OP here, last post

You get me, and thanks. Ill start that walk I mentioned before.

[Anonymous No.3896439]

>>3896402

Wrong. Read it again, this time all the way through.

[Anonymous No.3896445]

"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

[Anonymous No.3896446]

>>3896433
You are medically ill.

[Anonymous No.3896450]

so op basically just lacks conviction and needs exercise
i'll go ahead and just extend this to most people on /lit/

[Anonymous No.3896453]

>>3896439
I hadn't read the last part. It now seems that Arminass is actually a pretty clever guy, but obviously overcompensating for his ridiculous name and he resent his parents for giving it to him, but at the same time he's conflicted and confused because of is unresolved Oedipian desire to fuck his mother, externalized by his appetite for war and his extreme stance on life and death (typical father-like posturing,which act at the same time as an obfuscation for his immature oedipian desire and as a way of assuming the role of the father, who naturally get to fuck the mom).

By the end of the story, Arminass has accepted his own meaninglessness and the ridiculousness of his name, and is ready to impersonate his mother and get himself fucked. The knife used by the priest's grandson in the last scene symbolizes the erecting phallus of the father that penetrates the mother now represented by Arminass himself. Nice Freudian variation, thank you. We are all Arminasses, in the end. At least until we reach the last stage of pre-childhood development at age five.

[Anonymous No.3896460]

>>3896253

Hey look, it's Lain.

[Anonymous No.3896465]

>>3896433
Wait, did /lit actually help someone ? I'm pretty sure the Bible say it's the fourth of the seven sign before Apocalypse. We better start hiding in our basements.

[Anonymous No.3896471]

>>3896368
perhaps I can put it this way. There is a similar gap between is/ought and preference/logical choice. But preference isn't arbitrary; it's either inbuilt or is reached from a logical process of it's own.
Preference however, does not have to be justified by objective truth, buts comes from this dialectic, this whole biosocial coversation we have with ourselves and eachother: eg our practical nature with the reward systems and human attributes and how that responds to external pressures and experiences.
I don't see it as a stretch that any
can be seen as reasonable 'causes of action' despite not conforming to an objective truth value; don't forget the way we use the word reasonable; it's reasonable to avoid jumping off cliffs; because death is distasteful to our biological systems and gravity exists; but
okay I have to go

[Anonymous No.3896492]

Once upon a time there was a young prince, who believed in all things but three. He did not believe in princesses, he did not believe in islands, he did not believe in God. His father, the king, told him that such things did not exist. As there were no princesses or islands in his father’s domains, and no sign of God, the young prince believed his father.

But then, one day, the prince ran away from his palace. He came to the next land. There, to his astonishment, from every coast he saw islands, and on these islands, strange and troubling creatures whom he dared not name. As he was searching for a boat, a man in full evening dress approached him along the shore.

“Are those real islands?” asked the young prince.

“Of course they are real islands,” said the man in evening dress.

“And those strange and troubling creatures?”

“They are all genuine and authentic princesses.”

“Then God also must exist!” cried the prince.

“I am God,” replied the man in full evening dress, with a bow.

The young prince returned home as quickly as he could.

“So you are back,” said his father, the king.

“I have seen islands, I have seen princesses, I have seen God,” said the prince reproachfully.

The king was unmoved.

“Neither real islands, nor neat princesses, nor a real God, exist.”

“I saw them!”

“Tell me how God was dressed.”

“God was in full evening dress.”

“Were the sleeves of his coat rolled back?”

The prince remembered that they had been. The king smiled.

“That is the uniform of a magician. You have been deceived.”

[Anonymous No.3896494]

>>3896253
>I mean it isnt a joke that meaning isnt inherent in things,
>when you decide this is true you lose your drive for anything because any reason you give is as shallow as anything else.
>Meaning can be created, but the opposite ideal of that meaning can also just as easily be accepted.
>Anything can be adopted and just as quickly forgotten.

>>3896355

>I have read Kierkegaard, he is a genius but he does not at all solve my problem. not at all.

>A man enters upon his life, hoping that all will go well for him and with good wishes for others. He steps out into the world’s multiplicity, like one that comes from the country into the great noisy city, into the multiplicity where men engrossed in affairs hurry past one another, where each looks out for what belongs to him in the vast "back and forth," where everything is in passing, where it is as though at each instant one saw what he had learned borne out in practice, and in the same instant saw it refuted, without any cessation in the unrest of work, in multiplicity -- that all too vast a school of experience. For here one can experience everything possible, or that everything is possible, even what the inexperienced man would least believe, that the Good sits highest at the dinner table and crime next highest, or crime highest and the Good next highest -- in good company with each other.

[Anonymous No.3896496]

>>3896494
>So this man stands there. He has in himself a susceptibility for the disease of double-mindedness. His feeling is purely immediate, his knowledge only strengthened through contemplation, his will not mature. Swiftly, alas, swiftly he is infected -- one more victim. This is nothing new, but an old story. As it has happened to him, so it has happened with the double-minded ones who have gone before him -- this in passing he now gives as his own excuse, for he has received the consecration of excuses.

[Anonymous No.3896498]

>>3896496
>So the despairing self is constantly building nothing but castles in the air, it fights only in the air. All these experimented virtues make a brilliant showing; for an instant they are enchanting like an oriental poem: such self-control, such firmness, such ataraxia, etc., border almost on the fabulous. Yes, they do to be sure; and also at the bottom of it all there is nothing. The self wants to enjoy the entire satisfaction of making itself into itself, of developing itself, of being itself; it wants to have the honor of this poetical, this masterly plan according to which it has understood itself. And yet in the last resort it is a riddle how it understands itself; just at the instant when it seems to be nearest to having the fabric finished it can arbitrarily resolve the whole thing into nothing.

[Anonymous No.3896516]

>>3896350
I don't think you understand nihilism, at all.

[Anonymous No.3896519]

>>3896494
>>3896496
>>3896498
Kierkegaard have always been my main man.
Reading Enten/eller and Sickness unto Death at them moment, in danish. He describes our existence better than contemporary writers.

I come to lit because it is the only place where I find people in the exact same position as myself. I hope you'll get better OP, I some times think that this despair that is supposedly linked to philosophical squabbles, will probably just be cured by some good old medicine or therapy.

Anyways, I think you need to make a decision, do you want to explore your make-believe depression and reach great depths and highs or do you want to cure it? Get rid of it or use it?

[Anonymous No.3896554]

>>3896253
If you're anything like me, it will eventually bother you less than it does now. That said, you might be, in general, slightly less happy than before. But unless you feel so disillusioned that you want to die, all you can do is keep living despite those feelings. Some might tell you to read The Myth of Sisyphus. That might not be a bad idea.