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/lit/ - Literature

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3851741 No.3851741 [Reply] [Original]

ITT: we discuss the best way to overhtrow global liberal democracy and replace it with a better system.
I don't have any particular ideas I'd like to start off by advocating, I'm more interested in what /lit/ thinks should be done to replace the obviously defective liberal democratic Western/global society that has become the only acceptable thing.

>> No.3851746

Give up, stay home, stroke to cartoon girls.

>> No.3851748

Communism.

>> No.3851755

>invent virus that kills 9/10
>work out problem with smaller data set

>> No.3851754

The funny/ironic thing about this is it applies to Chomsky's political thinking to, with respect to his leftist anti-communism.

>> No.3851756
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3851756

ignore postmodernism

ignore chomsky

attack central banking network

>> No.3851759

>>3851754
It more accurately applies to identity politics and the literal constraints on vocabulary that come with them.

>> No.3851763

>>3851756

>Implying postmodernism as a catch-all term for a school of thought isn't just a cheap buzzword

>> No.3851764
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3851764

>discuss the best way to overhtrow global liberal democracy

Wait a while

>> No.3851768

>>3851764
How can someone wait when bullshit like what's in your picture is encouraged by the system?

>> No.3851785
File: 18 KB, 230x364, 230px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-S33882,_Adolf_Hitler_retouched.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3851785

>>3851768
There was a time called the interwar years when people threw away classical music for jazz, when they were almost always drunk, when people gave up the family for promiscuity, when art became abstract garbage, when the fabric of western society began to fall apart into chaos and hedonistic individuals feeding their appetites with vices. Then, a man put a stop to this, and even though he lost in the end, he restored the culture to a state of respectability.

Then in the late 1960s, people began having subversive thoughts again. These ideas dominate us today. We live in another era like the interwar years. That man will return, he will have a second coming, and he will deliver us.

>> No.3851789

>>3851785

>Implying you're not just as bad as the hedonists you're decrying, just on the opposite end of the spectrum

>> No.3851791

>>3851785
>>>/pol/

>> No.3851809

The system is working great for me.

>> No.3851810

>>3851759
Um...ok?

Sometimes I think all the bashing of "identity politics" amongst leftists is just an excuse to make fun of faggots or whatever while maintaining the political/moral highground, rather than being a theoretical critique as such.

>> No.3851811

>>3851785
Jeez, that put a tear in my eye.

>> No.3851816

>>3851785
I just realised Hemingway and his Paris gang were everything Hitler was against.

>> No.3851817

>>3851810
Identity politics are objectively garbage. They're the reason Occupy fell apart--no one could do anything because every factional minority group was obsessively concerned with privilege, and equal representation and "safe spaces" and beating "oppression" and no one could get anything done.

>> No.3851818

>>3851785
If Nazis had superior culture, who are your favorite Nazi painters, musicians, and other artists?

>> No.3851819
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3851819

>>3851785
Soon.

>> No.3851820

>>3851817
I've heard people say this but I haven't seen evidence of it.

I'm sure it did happen but I'd like to know the specifics.

>> No.3851822

>>3851818
He didn't even mention Nazis, what are you talking about? He said Hitler put a stop to the spiral of Western culture into decadence, vice, and decay.

>> No.3851827

>>3851818

Arno Breker
Albert Speer

>> No.3851836

>>3851818
communist, but I do like Hamsun. that said, the superiority of Nazi art as defined by the Nazis made it particularly difficult to attain even authorship and stagnated a lot of the movements which it didn't even feel were inferior.
tl;dr- no, it's not the most productive of political backings to art

>> No.3851837

>>3851817
Eh. The Occupy Movement fell apart because all the kiddos needed to charge up their iPhones and iPods and left to "occupy" Mom and Dad's house again.

>> No.3851841

>>3851837
This is another one of those >being in occupy >buying stuff arguments again, isn't it?

>> No.3851947
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3851947

>>3851785

But that man walks amongst us already.

>> No.3851950

>>3851837
This has always been a lazy and stupid criticism, if it can even be called that.

>> No.3851970

>>3851841
It's like they can't comprehend we live under a globalized capitalist world and most of the material we use fall from that.

>> No.3851984

no one has even offered anything serious yet

>> No.3851988

>>3851970
This is a great example of that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WvAkhW-XNI
That silence after the starbucks comment.

>> No.3851990

Invent a better system

Oh wait you pinko commies can't

>> No.3852032

>>3851990
I agree. The reason Occupy and other similar "revolutions" fell apart was because there is no other system that doesn't lead to a 1984 style repression. Even if there is privacy invasion now is nowhere as bad as the URSS.
It's useless to overthrow a system if you have nothing better to replace it with.

>> No.3852035
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3852035

>>3852032
>It's useless to overthrow a system if you have nothing better to replace it with.
What a ridiculous statement.

>> No.3852049
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3852049

>>3852032

In regards to overthrowing the state, it's a bit like this: when you remove a tumor, what do you replace it with?

>> No.3852050

>>3852049
Post tumor support groups.

>> No.3852053

>>3852035

>overthrow a state
>everyone continues to conduct their lives according to the behaviours and patterns of thought they've learned and there's nothing done to change these

Brilliant plan 10/10

>> No.3852062

>>3851988
can't be bothered guy is great.

>> No.3852069

>>3852053
Communism is for us not a stable state which reality will have to adjust itself. We can call Communism the real movement which abolished the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from premises now in existence.

>> No.3852078

>>3852062
He's editor of Private Eye, a great satirical magazine.

>> No.3852116

>>3852049
sure is working on middle east m8

>> No.3852251
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3852251

>>3852069
sup German Ideology

>> No.3852349

Stop paying taxes, become self-sufficient, barter with friends and family, acquire arms.

>> No.3852358

chomsky is a critic of western democracy, but he concedes several of its strengths and by no means advocates for an immediate torching of the entire system.

i think that would just be stupid.

>> No.3852364

>>3852116
are you fucking retarded
When a government is overthrown in the Middle East, it is immediately replaced with either a faux-democracy or a democracy where the populace elects a radical Islamist

>> No.3852370

>>3852364
They had democracy in the middle east before western interventions.

>> No.3852375

Well the theory of a social revolution beginning with an economic one seems sound and logical, but just how wealth and production are supposed to be appropriated, god knows. Something so entrenched and revered as private property may be impossible to dislodge. Education seems a dead end precisely because global liberal democracy aims at curtailing options and thus opinion. Reform is espoused by a small group of dissident thinkers and their followers; the majority of the population go on with their lives as good citizens. I think anarchism as a whole is the closest humanity has come up with to a real theory for change, but I'm more than pessimistic about the future.

>> No.3852377

>>3852370
Yes. What is your point? I'm not crediting the western powers with democracy in the Middle East, I am saying that overthrowing a government does not leave some disastrous power void, it is filled. At least in the case of the Middle East, sub-Saharan Africa is a different ballgame

>> No.3852384
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3852384

>The doctrine of equality! … But there is no more venomous poison in existence: for it appears to be preached by justice itself, when it is actually the end of justice … "Equality to the equal; inequality to the unequal" — that would be true justice speaking: and its corollary, "never make the unequal equal".

>> No.3852393

>>3851748
This.

>> No.3852412

>>3851748
No.

>> No.3852414

How about capitalize on the relativism, anomie, and poor economic situation of the present?

Start a party which aims to give people meaning and empower the disenfranchised masses. Clearly identify the enemy of the people so that there's an understandable goal: elimination of the oppressive or manipulative force. Gain recruits and spread the party message while encouraging some direct action. Force the powers that be to concede somewhat to the growing power of your group and once you have legitimacy in their eyes and an open dialogue with their leaders, use any and all crises as the opportunity to seize the reins. When in power, take some control of the means of production in order to redistribute to the oppressed masses who propelled your party to the top.

Kind of like the Nazis

>> No.3852454

>>3852377
The problem is with what is filled with. People are fucking stupid uneducated puppets. You can't trust them not to put someone worse in charge.

>> No.3852476

>>3852414
except they didn't redistribute to the oppressed masses, they became all buddy buddy with big business forming monopolies and cutting workers wages, shutting down anyone who spoke up about it and then saying "MUH JEWS!" whenever they couldn't do that.

>> No.3852477

>>3852412
>muh liberalism

>> No.3852482

We establish a despotic monarchy, and either the ruler turns out to be really great and benevolent and we enter a new golden age, or our children topple the monarchy to establish some form of anarchy or communism.

It can't fail.

>> No.3852505

We establish a representative democracy, encode our values in the founding document, and include a mechanism to change laws based on citizen participation. Either it turns out to be really great and benevolent and satisfactory to all and we enter a new golden age, or our children topple the government like we did.

It can't fail.

>> No.3852510

>>3852505
No but with representative democracy people get distracted by the belief that they actually have a choice.

At least with a despotic monarchy people will realize that their only choice is to topple it once things turn bad.

>> No.3852513

>>3852482
It could fail catastrophically or work somewhat.
I like it.

>> No.3852529 [DELETED] 

>>3852510
>representative democracy
Never get over how funny is that this is 'murica's so called freedom.

>> No.3852539

>>3852505
The US failed precisely because it didn't, from the beginning, honor the universal freedom it implies. The ghost of slavery (inequality) has perverted everything since then.

>> No.3852540

>>3851741
>>3852513
>idealism

You're not going to replace bourgeois liberalism using an idealist method.

>> No.3852541

>>3852476
>except they didn't redistribute to the oppressed masses, they became all buddy buddy with big business

They did both. The economic situation for "workers" and your average German citizen dramatically improved, but they had no say in how improvement was handled.

>> No.3852549

>>3852540
That despotic monarchy idea doesn't seem very idealistic to me.

Just think of it this way. In a democracy when things go bad people just think "oh well we'll choose someone better next election cycle" and so rulers have no motivation to avoid mistakes. In an absolute monarchy when things go bad people think "oh shit we better overthrow this despot and chop off his head" so the ruler has motivation to do the best job he possibly can since his life is potentially on the line.

>> No.3852556

>>3852539
>>3852510
You're right but my post wasn't sincere. I don't know why you responded as if i were actually advancing an argument for the same government whose downfall this thread is concerned with.

>> No.3852560

>>3852556
I didn't think you were arguing for democracy I just defending my monarchy idea.

>> No.3852562

>>3852560
*was just

>> No.3852581

>>3852560
>>3852562
Oh. Well you should read Voltaire. He was for enlightened despotism.