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/lit/ - Literature

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3850447 No.3850447 [Reply] [Original]

soo.. one of the greatest writers did comics. pic related

>> No.3850463

Comics aren't literature and they never will be.

>> No.3850466

>>3850463
This. If it has drawings then it's childish, everyone knows that.

>> No.3850502
File: 731 KB, 1007x748, 1278929097473.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3850502

>>3850466
>This. If it has drawings then it's childish, everyone knows that.

>Thousands of illuminated manuscripts have pictures.

>Gutenberg bible has pictures

>Jurassic Park has graphs

>Lovecraft drew elder sign and statue of Cthulhu

>The Hobbit and The Terror have maps...

>Woodcuts in Dante's Inferno...

>Doesn't think the Watchmen is /lit/

>Art has been compliment and inspiration to writing and predates it by thousands if not millions of years...

Fuck you.

>> No.3850509

>>3850502
>>Art has been compliment and inspiration to writing and predates it by thousands if not millions of years...
>literature not art
gb2reddit

>> No.3850510

>>3850509
Go back to school summer fag.

>> No.3850529

>>3850502
I dunno. I kinda get what Anon is saying. I prefer the vividness of my imagination to comics, which have a distinct limitation upon text, text being the primary reason to actually read something.

Things with maps and other classifiers or small illuminations are fine.

>> No.3850531

>>3850447
who the fuck is that ?

>> No.3850533

>>3850529

If your imagination was vivid you'd make art.

People that read like to believe they have an impressive sweeping imagination. They typically don't.

Art is a skill learned and honed, as is writing. If your have a truly vivid imagination you make up your own things. Not impose your vision on others craft.

>> No.3850534
File: 64 KB, 764x1045, Donald-Duck-37.png.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3850534

>>3850531
Karl Marx

>> No.3850535

>>3850502
>Jurassic Park
>Lovecraft
>The Hobbit

gtfo

>> No.3850536

>>3850535

I see you missed Dante and Gutenberg...

Got some trouble reading there?

>> No.3850538

>>3850502
>Thousands of illuminated manuscripts have pictures.

Produced in a primitive time before humanity knew better, always subsidiary to the text, which is and always has been the focus of true creativity and intellectual exercise. These pictures were meant to allow children and retards to follow along with developmentally normal adults who read to them from these books.

>Gutenberg bible has pictures

Ditto.

>Jurassic Park has graphs

Jurrasic Park is not literature. It's shit.

>Lovecraft drew elder sign and statue of Cthulhu

Lovecraft is not literature. He was a pulp writer.

>The Hobbit and The Terror have maps...

Ugh. Are you stupid?

>Woodcuts in Dante's Inferno...

So if I slap a doodle in Infinite Jest does that suddenly make comics literature? No.

>Doesn't think the Watchmen is /lit/

THE Watchmen? You have to be trolling. Even comic "fans" know that title is horribly overrated.

>Art has been compliment and inspiration to writing and predates it by thousands if not millions of years...

Millions? Hominids with cultural capacity have been around for a few hundred thousand and the second that writing was invented it was instantly recognized by everyone as an infinitely superior means of expression, and in many ways drove the development of every ancient civilization, even the Inca who had a form of writing using beaded string. So much for scratching pictures of naked cave women in the dirt, Ug.

>> No.3850540

>>3850538
Go fuck yourself you self important prick

Your taste in reading has nothing to do with what is or is not /lit/ you fucking child.

>> No.3850543

I agree, OP. Don Rosa comes close but Barks will always be king.

>> No.3850544
File: 340 KB, 1280x1988, Limited Series Neonomicon #2 (of 4) (2010_8) - Page 28.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3850544

Okay. You cited Alan Moore and Lovecraft as examples of great writers who combined visual art with literature to produce literary works of the highest quality. Let's see what happens when we combine them, shall we? Here you have a page from what many consider to be Alan Moore's masterpiece, Neonomicon, perhaps the highest achievement of the comics form. Truly, images are superior to the written word. GLUMMG OMM indeed.

>> No.3850545

>>3850544

Did you have a point to any of what you just said?

>> No.3850548

>>3850545
Comic books are a joke. "The" Watchmen was all hype. Squid monster? Please. Comics will never produce a work of lasting art.

>> No.3850551

>>3850548
>Superman
>Batman
>Will be 100 years old in 2033...

Yep. No comic could ever go that long...

>> No.3850552

>>3850544

That's one of the trashiest comicbooks I have ever read. I know that Alan Moore needed the money badly, but this is very low...

>> No.3850554

>>3850544
Is that DFW in the first frame?

>> No.3850556

>>3850538
hahahaahaahahahhahahhhhahahhahahaahahaaahahahhahhahahahahahahahahaah

>> No.3850560

>>3850551
And Fast and the Furious just came out with another sequel, what, it's seventh film? Truly that series is elevated to the status of Terrence Malick's oeuvre now. Because that's what "lasting" means.

>> No.3850561

>>3850548
Why did you put scare quotes around "The"?
I'm glad I taught you about Neonomicon yesterday; I can show you more comics if you like.

Maus is pretty highly acclaimed and a picturebook with animals seems at about your level.

>> No.3850563

>>3850552
Aw, your poor sensibilities.

>> No.3850567

>>3850560
If a pair of characters are emotionally and financially viable for a century aren't "lasting" I don't know what is...

They clearly aren't highbrow, but all you're showing is you have some anal plug about what you THINK is art. More than likely when man falls back to the cave and has to scrape back to civilzed life, Superman and Batman will still be their, when Terrence will be used to wipe a monkey ass or start a fire.

Hercules is better known that DFW.

>> No.3850568

>>3850551
>Capeshit
>Art
I can understand saying that the comics medium is capable of being literature, but ? Even people who know about that potential recognize superhero comics as what they are, which is shit.

>> No.3850573

>>3850567
Yes, because popularity equals quality. "Lasting" means something held in high esteem by intelligent people forever. If you build a beautiful statue in a field and it holds out for millenia and intelligent people still love it, it's lasting. If you take a shit in a field and it fossilizes and lasts for millenia, it's not lasting, it's just there, even if a bunch of degenerate savage retards later worship it as their god. Something held in low esteem by intelligent people forever is not lasting. Such are superheroes.

>> No.3850579

>>3850573
Man, I don't even really give a fuck about superhero's. But you're not getting the big picture. Your 'High Esteem' books are the same thing as comic books. Just liked by a group of people and found financially viable. Only instead of your books being filled with bright candy colors you surround them with reverence like a catholic church. Its the same thing liked by a different group of people. If you think otherwise, you're just fooling yourself. If you knew anything about art, you'd know that everything you said is largely subjective and is based on personal taste. Hell if you read Kant or Hume you'd know that.

You are nothing but a series of chemical reactions moving through time and space, held in check by gravity.

Because you like grape over strawberries doesn't mean grape has more meaning. Its just what you assign to it.

>> No.3850582

>>3850579
Okay, I admit it. You're right.

That's fucking deep, man.

You've changed my entire way of looking at the world. When you graduate high school we should hang out.

>> No.3850584

>>3850582

>Ad hominems everywhere!

You've got to be a troll.

No one can be this self-absorbed. Also i graduated 10 years ago fuck face.

>> No.3850585
File: 39 KB, 350x164, we3-comic-animals-crop-img.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3850585

>>3850568
Mister Terrific was pretty good tho

I mean there's "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" and so on and I sort of liked Slott's run up to Spider-Man 600, idgaf

We3 is also very good, speaking of picturebooks with animals

>>3850567
Terence, not Terrence

>> No.3850588
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3850588

>>3850466
> If it has drawings then it's childish

>> No.3850590

>>3850584
>Ad hominem

So formal logic is a valid universal criteria for evaluating arguments, then? So shove your relativism up you ass.

Some human endeavors are simply better than others.

If someone writes an ugly gaudy little subpornographic comic book that debases your soul and degrades civilization through its sheer vulgarity and stupidity, it's a shitty effort and should be recognized as such.

>> No.3850595

>>3850590
You're not wrong. I just dislike your post.

LOL

>> No.3850597

>>3850590

Man, I just feel sorry for you now. All you just said is a series of opinions. Its well known that content analysis of art and literature is a giant circle jerk of preference and interest.

>Some human endeavors are simply better than others.

Social Darwinism really doesn't have a place in writing or art. Its either all fair game or none of it is. That is the gold standard of art.

You're like some german conservative that doesn't understand how art works. If must feel bad to have such a narrow view of the world.

>> No.3850605

>>3850597

>Social Darwinism

Now you're just throwing out words like verbal baby shit.

If you can't judge writing, why are you judging my posts? Get fucked, idiot.

>> No.3850610

>>3850605

...I don't even know how to respond to you. Its really like you're just throwing out contrarian shit for the sake of doing it. There's no attempt at a logical argument, no sighted examples, no counter points.

Just conjecture and poor attitude. You might need to seek some help man.

>> No.3850613

>>3850610
Listen. Objectively speaking, you're not worth arguing with. Your entire worldview and all your opinions are so ill-conceived as to be beyond the pale of rational discourse. You're so stupid that you're practically a lesser being addressing what to you is a mysterious force that exists beyond your comprehension. Can you blame the ghost for saying boo? Nothing you have to say matters in the least. There is not a thought in your head that is worth thinking. I hold you up as an object of mockery for my own amusement. You are wrong. You were born wrong. You will die wrong. End of story. :/

>> No.3850614

>>3850590
>So formal logic is a valid universal criteria for evaluating arguments, then?
Yes, this is why logic was formalized.

'>So shove your relativism up you ass.
Ad baculum irrelevant to the premises

>Some human endeavors are simply better than others.
Hasty generalization based on personal experience

>If someone writes an ugly gaudy little subpornographic comic book that debases your soul and degrades civilization through its sheer vulgarity and stupidity, it's a shitty effort and should be recognized as such.
Failure to elucidate terms such as "debases your soul" "degrades civilization," appeal to emotion, crude modus ponens

not even worth formalizing, shabby effort all around

>> No.3850621

>>3850613

Social Darwinisim

is an ideology of society that seeks to apply biological concepts of Darwinism or of evolutionary theory to sociology and politics, often with the assumption that conflict between groups in society leads to social progress as superior groups outcompete inferior ones.

Quotes from you that exemplify this very thing.

>Some human endeavors are simply better than others.

>You're so stupid that you're practically a lesser being

>Nothing you have to say matters in the least. There is not a thought in your head that is worth thinking. I hold you up as an object of mockery for my own amusement. You are wrong. You were born wrong. You will die wrong.

You're a fascist sir. You just don't know it.

>> No.3850623

>>3850614
What are you even saying? You could've just said you didn't like it. That's all you're really saying, right?

>> No.3850626

>>3850621
Oh! So there's something wrong with fascism, huh? That's what you're implying. Or do you just not like it?

Me, I happen to like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights better than the Fascist Manifesto, but there's no accounting for personal taste, right?

>> No.3850632

>>3850626

The bad part is you don't even recognize what's wrong with you. Its like watching a mentally ill child. They're so proud of the things they do. Not knowing that beating Mrs. Darcy's cat's brain in with a rock was wrong...

Are you in a home? Do you have family to look out for you? Geez must be very sick to not see this. I'd spot you some money, but I'm afraid you'd just spend it on booze.

>> No.3850634

>>3850632
Yes. Because I think some things are better made than others that means I'm an insane alcoholic. Enjoy your picture books, kiddo.

>> No.3850636

>>3850634

No. Its that you outright discount something which is the hallmark of a little mind.

>> No.3850639

>>3850613
omg

>> No.3850642

>>3850623
I'm saying
>Objectively speaking, you're not worth arguing with

>> No.3850644

Heavy Illustration and comics are to literature what dance and music is to theater. An added ingredient is simply a variation on a recipe.

>> No.3850645

>>3850636
Comics are trash tho, ESPECIALLY the examples you've given. They've never produced a work to rival the best of prose fiction and they never will. This isn't offhand. I understand how comics work, the mechanics of them. I understand the industry. I understand the historical forces at work that have resulted in this medium being completely barren of literary merit. Prose is simply superior. If you disagree feel free to make a comic about it. I'm sure it'll be great.

>> No.3850650

>>3850642
But what you've just written is worthless and bad, and it should've have been written, and you're a moron for having written it.

Damn, it feels good being able to say that! I guess that's one of the benefits of allowing me to judge the works of others according to their merits. Try it sometime. :)

>> No.3850652
File: 92 KB, 190x185, 1370117389001.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3850652

>>3850650
>it should've have been written
It should've have been written! I'm glad I did have wrote it :)

>> No.3850656

>>3850652
Yes auto-corrected typos in 4chan posts are a sure gauge of intellectual proficiency and are worth commenting on. Eat shit.

>> No.3850657

>>3850561
Not the guy you replied to, but the comic isn't called "The Watchmen". It's called just "Watchmen".

Just one word, but a big difference in meaning.

>> No.3850658

>>3850645

I'm serious man. I just feel bad for you. You're trying to live some 'literary life style' or something and its making you a douche. You're generalizing so badly and making overreaching even reckless statements you're going to likely eat later in your life. Or run your mouth to the wrong person and end up biting the curb.

I don't disagree there is alot of shit when it comes to comics, but you haven't read them all nor do you likely even read reviews about them. You're also trying to make judgments about me through off handed listing of works 'Generally' accepted by the public at large. Who do you answer to? Who is this guild of respected people you see as infallible in their judgment of art? Can you even name them?

Not even joking man. Get some help.

>> No.3850669
File: 922 KB, 500x250, 1370050130001.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3850669

>>3850656
*gage

>>3850657
Yeah but that's sort of like getting pissy over "The Pixies."

>> No.3850670

>>3850502
Watchmen isn't lit, and it's very clear about not wanting to be; it's a superhero comic deconstructing superhero comics. You fucking /co/ retards need to stop devaluing your own medium and acting like "comics aren't literature" is a negative thing.

>> No.3850675

>>3850658
>I'm serious man. I just feel bad for you. You're trying to live some 'literary life style' or something and its making you a douche. You're generalizing so badly and making overreaching even reckless statements you're going to likely eat later in your life. Or run your mouth to the wrong person and end up biting the curb.

Oh my god I'm laughing so hard at the image of a soft-faced morbidly obese babyman curbstomping me outside a comic book store because I said comics aren't literature I can't even respond.

>I don't disagree there is alot of shit when it comes to comics, but you haven't read them all nor do you likely even read reviews about them.

I've read thousands and thousands of comics in a desperate search for merit. Nothing.

>You're also trying to make judgments about me through off handed listing of works 'Generally' accepted by the public at large.

lol

>Who do you answer to? Who is this guild of respected people you see as infallible in their judgment of art? Can you even name them?

If you have to ask, you'll never know.

>>3850669
Gauge is a correct spelling. Gage is an alternate form. Fool.

>> No.3850680

>>3850675
>If you have to ask, you'll never know

Possibly the worst dodge in history.

Confirmed for troll

Eat shit and die. I'm off to bed.

>> No.3850684

>>3850680
Try not to choke to death on a turd and go to hell in your sleep, buttercup.

>> No.3850683

>>3850669
"The Watchmen" makes it sound like it's the name of the superhero team which is a traditional way to name superhero comics, which is stupid. The name of the team in the comic was the Minutemen anyway. It's one of the changes they made in the movie, to rename them the Watchmen, and it was dumb.

>> No.3850686
File: 31 KB, 600x451, 1319474088803.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3850686

>>3850684
Eloquent

>> No.3850688

>>3850686
You've been vanquished. Go to sleep.

>> No.3850690

That's not Herge and Tintin.

Although I give props to Disney for including some badass music in Fantasia.

Too bad they have to draw dicks in everything they do.

>> No.3850692
File: 210 KB, 932x857, 1355875392056.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3850692

>>3850675
lol did you actually look that up though

>>3850683
That's true, and it is annoying to have people think the organization was called "the Watchmen" anyway. The film was dumb in so many ways.

back to comics I bought a few of the Punisher 2099 comics a while back and it's the best and edgiest comic I've read in a long time

>> No.3850695

>>3850692
No. I tend to have good spelling and I'm aware of variants.

And that movie was adapted from a comic. What do you expect?

>> No.3850701

lol look at all these fedora wearing overweight loser faggots defending their childish comics. Grow up

>> No.3850708
File: 603 KB, 1280x1622, Thunderbolts_150.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3850708

>>3850695
but then why did you misspell "shouldn't"
I didn't really expect anything; I walked out when I saw they fucked Rorschach's character so badly

Thunderbolts is pretty good too

>> No.3850717

>>3850708
Like I said: typo. I know how to spell shouldn't. When you type as fast as I do you sometimes make errors, at least on a membrane keyboard.

Nobody's perfect.

Some of us are just a lot closer than others. :)

>> No.3850749

>>3850535
>>3850538
ok what about The Rubaiyat, The Tempest, Jane Eyre and The Arabian nights? Those four have been illustrated beautifully by one hand

>>3850538
Needless to say your opinions in this answer are ridiculous and designed for maximum edginess.

Jurassic Park, Lovecraft: your taste doesn't define what is and what isn't literature

Your points on manuscripts and Gutenberg: the illustrations are in themselves sophisticated and an art. The point wasn't whether they are subsidiary or not, however. Clearly they are there as subsidiaries, that has no influence on their quality.
What is under discussion is this:
>This. If it has drawings then it's childish, everyone knows that.
And:
>Comics aren't literature and they never will be.
You have not given any solid argument to your side.

Not him but source on this:
>was invented it was instantly recognized by everyone as an infinitely superior means of expression
you're perhaps considering practicality as your only criteria, if so, state it.

>> No.3850753

>>3850548
clearly hasn't read moonshadow

>> No.3850762

>>3850590
>ugly gaudy little subpornographic comic book that debases your soul and degrades civilization through its sheer vulgarity and stupidity
not all comic books are that, so I dont see how that's relevant for your argument

>> No.3850771

>>3850613
>Can you blame the ghost for saying boo?
That's the faggiest way to put it I've ever read

>> No.3851252

>>3850531
Carl "The God Duck Artist" Barks

>> No.3852912

>>3850688
>Has better things to do
>Thinks he wins cuz he didn't need to go to bed.

Are you 12?

>> No.3852927
File: 54 KB, 342x393, 1364043384175.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3852927

>>3850538
>>Produced in a primitive time before humanity knew better

Ha! My sides. Kid has a laptop bought by daddy, is spoon fed by mom, and is a NEET. Kid is ignorant and contributes nothing to humanity. He is unable to produce insights on the cosmos and humanity with the use of his mind and his mind only. Kid cannot use axes to conquer barbarians lands. He cries when a pimple is squeezed. Kid cannot farm. He is also unable to climb the Himalayas.

And he claims that he is part of something "better".

>> No.3853207

>>3852927
>hurr we should strive for a good life but if you have it ur a pussy

>> No.3853210

Yeah OP I love Colonel Sanders

>> No.3853224

>>3850466
>Slaughterhouse Five
>Childish