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/lit/ - Literature

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3805876 No.3805876 [Reply] [Original]

Hi lit,

What are your political beliefs, if you have any? What books have influenced your politics? Are you involved in politics in any way, or do you want to become more politically active?

Secondary question: where are you from?

I have considered myself apolitical for some time, but I don't really believe that anybody can be apolitical without getting depressed about it. Don't know if I can pinpoint any specific books that have influenced me politically, which is why I ask.

>> No.3805915

I'll answer your secondary question first. I'm an Amerifag. As far as political beliefs go, I must agree with Aristotle that Democracy is something of an aberration, while an Aristocracy of the strong and the just- so perhaps a Meritocracy- is best.

I realized though that changes are rarely made from the outside, and so I decided to involve myself. I just recently took the intelligence test the Army uses, and I'm waiting to hear back if they'll offer me a position in Intelligence or something of that nature, assuming I can make it through Basic of course.

What books inspired this? The Art of War, Nichomachean Ethics, Spy Handler (The memoir of a KGB agent), and various historical fictions

>> No.3805948

i don't understand politics at all. i think i understand it in theory, but in practice, it's just a big incomprehensible mess.

>> No.3806023

Canfag here.

Mostly Liberal, but would rather something that works enough to shut conservativefags the fuck up long enough that their thieving asses can be drummed the fuck out of existence... AGAIN.

Lots of books have shaped my beliefs, most of them from the Conservative right (ie selfish cunts that have no idea about give and take because they read Ayn Rand and just about creamed their collective panties because someone put their ideas into words, even if they're fully unworkable) and a few from elsewhere... Mostly communist books, and a few from middle left by Canadian and American Authors.

That being said, Yes, I'm politically active in that I've pushed for investigations into financial dealings that were improper or illegal, and have mustered about 400 younger students to actually do something about how badly they're getting fucked by threatening to vote and help other political candidates than the ones that are currently seated.

>> No.3806028

>>3805948
For the most part, that's what it is.

You can't fix anything without comprehensive review, and for the most part, that'd take forever. For fuck's sake, it took 3 years of bickering to assign the federal colour for SCHOOL BUSES.

>> No.3806036

Anarchist, from Norway.

Haven't read so many books yet. Very influenced by Chomsky and especially Kropotkin. Should like to become a lot more politically active.

>> No.3806044

I think I'm a moderate national-socialist, if there is such a thing.

>> No.3806048
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3806048

>>3806036
>Anarchist

>> No.3806056

Economist here. I'm an AnCap because I understand the philosophy and the actual economics.

>> No.3806060
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3806060

>>3806056

>> No.3806061

>>3806023
You probably supported the student tuition protests in Montreal. Fuck you buddy. Because of people like you my university is now having to make major cuts to the arts department and take on huge private debt besides.

Fuck Canadian liberals. At least the conservatives get things done.

>> No.3806067

I'm a primarily Left leaning centrist from Texas. I have no problem with calling myself a Democrat but find myself disgusted more often than not with the childish antics I see liberals engage in on a daily basis. For the most part, I understand why people are conservative but I also know why I'm not one. Christopher Hitchens, Salman Rushdie, Plato, and Jefferson are some writer who influenced me when i was a little younger. I also must acknowledg that my admiration for Franklin Delano Roosevelt, John & Robert Kennedy, and Theodore Roosevelt accounts for a hell of a lot of influence on me as well.

>> No.3806068

>>3806060
Volunteerist/Anarchist/Someone Who Doesn't Like the State

It doesn't matter to me what the terms are.

>> No.3806073

>>3806061
>At least the conservatives get things done.

Yeah, as long as you don't say the "right" things done. Your cuts are nothing compared to the cuts in the ecological research departments. Conservatives are sending this fucking country half a century back in time by trying to remove women the right to abortion, Harper is more retarded than even Bush was.

>> No.3806074

I don't feel comfortable with my political compass just yet. I live in a country where pretty much every signifcant political party is on the left.
I believe I am a socialist, a democratic socialist if you muricans are familiar with the term.

I would embarass myself in any political discussion no doubt, so don't engage me.

>> No.3806082

conservative in canada. The conservatives here aren't even right wing though.

>> No.3806087

>>3806082
lel wut

u troll m8? They're more right wing that republicans.

>> No.3806089

>>3806087
>u troll m8?

are you?

>> No.3806102

Generally left wing. Support a market economy with strong government regulations mainly aimed at supporting higher wages and job security and the basics of safety and environmental standards, but with much less of a bureaucratic mess especially as concerns starting companies.

Support a rigorous and meritocratic school system with large government involvement, actively tracking students into academic or vocational study based on ability. Support more government involvement in the labor market re: tracking unemployment, getting the government more involved with matching individuals to open positions, etc. Perhaps I would abolish the minimum wage and make up for it with more comprehensive social welfare programs.

Lower corporate taxes and higher personal income taxes. Socially people should do w/e they want as regards marriage, drugs, etc. All that shit legal.

I'm probably quasi-fascist in how I envision a free market system with extensive government involvement.

>> No.3806106

>>3806073
> Your cuts are nothing compared to the cuts in the ecological research departments.

Yeah great logic, funding for environmental research is cut, therefore we should riot in the streets over a $300 tuition increase (spread over 7 years!) and get a retard nationalist party elected who then turn around and slash education funding (retroactively!) to pay for illegal ("but we quebec lol") language police.

And at least Harper follows through on his fucking agenda. Remember when the liberals got elected on the promise of major environmental reform and then reneged and sat around twiddling their thumbs because they didn't have the balls to piss anyone off? I'll choose a sincere politician I disagree over an insincere one who shares my beliefs every time.

>. Conservatives are sending this fucking country half a century back in time by trying to remove women the right to abortion,

A lie, Harper has repeatedly said he is in favour of abortion and will not re-open the debate. Even when that handful of MPs rebelled he voted against them.

>> No.3806114

>>3806106
>Yeah great logic, funding for environmental research is cut, therefore we should riot in the streets over a $300 tuition increase (spread over 7 years!) and get a retard nationalist party elected who then turn around and slash education funding (retroactively!) to pay for illegal ("but we quebec lol") language police.

Uninformed opinion; disregarded.


>And at least Harper follows through on his fucking agenda.

That's not an argument, since it doesn't prove that his agenda is intelligent or relevant in today's society, which it clearly isn't.

>A lie, Harper has repeatedly said he is in favour of abortion and will not re-open the debate.

He just tried to, though. Read the newspapers.

>> No.3806117

Environmentalist without the tree-hugging and sentimentality

>> No.3806125

I guess I am a reactionary.

I reject sociological universalism, egalitarianism, democracy and the notion of progress. In short, the ideals of the whole damn Enlightenment.

Some authors who influenced me are: Julius Evola, René Guénon and Friedrich Nietzsche.

This blog has a good article on what they call the 'Dark Enlightenment'.

http://matthewgleslie.com/post/31114643460/the-dark-enlightenment-the-complete-series-by-nick

>> No.3806127

>>3806114
>Uninformed opinion; disregarded.

lol. Please give me your version of events then, hmmm? I actually attend university in Montreal, buddy.

>That's not an argument, since it doesn't prove that his agenda is intelligent or relevant in today's society, which it clearly isn't.

Yeah, it's so clear that Harper won a majority in the last elect--oh, wait.

>He just tried to, though. Read the newspapers.

You're lying. Provide a source.

>> No.3806133

>>3806127
>lol. Please give me your version of events then, hmmm? I actually attend university in Montreal, buddy.

The fighting was not for the 300$, it was for the ethical principle.

>Yeah, it's so clear that Harper won a majority in the last elect--oh, wait.

I don't see any link between my last comment and your answer.

>You're lying. Provide a source.
I'm sorry I said he, I should have said his ministers and deputees. This metonymy is too easy to use, I guess.

>> No.3806135

This thread has been popping up a lot of times lately.
Communist
Portugal

>> No.3806157

>>3806133
>The fighting was not for the 300$, it was for the ethical principle.

See, this is the problem with leftists. It seem all they're capable of is knee-jerk violence in support of "ethical principles," despite the fact that this usually makes things worse. Notice how much worse things got for the Quebec post-secondary education system because of your actions? Notice how much animosity they generated towards the left in the rest of Canada? And it was all completely predictable too--you're like chimps flinging feces at each other in a cage.

>I don't see any link between my last comment and your answer.

You said his agenda was irrelevant. The last election results shows that the people of Canada disagree.

>I'm sorry I said he, I should have said his ministers and deputees. This metonymy is too easy to use, I guess.

Why are you so reluctant to provide a source? Are you worried that people will find out that it was just a piece of political grandstanding by less than a dozen back-bencher MPs, and that Harper and his cabinet opposed it? Leftists always resort to distorting the truth because reality doesn't bear out their beliefs.

>> No.3806159

I don't have any political beliefs because I'm moving in circles. Normally, when people tend to be decieved from one ideology, they go for another one and then stop. But I'm just continuing ad infinitum. That bothers me, because I think I should hold a clear position, but that means you'll have to exclude others positions who aren't invalid.

Let's say I'm a right-wing anarchist. Books that influenced me : The Society of the Spectacle (situanionists works in general), Evola (Revolt against the modern world, etc.), Jünger, lot of others.

I'm French. I'm in contact with some right-wing political organizations, but no one satisfies me.

>> No.3806175

>>3806157
>See, this is the problem with leftists. It seem all they're capable of is knee-jerk violence in support of "ethical principles
You are confusing students and anarchists showing up at manifestations.

>Notice how much worse things got for the Quebec post-secondary education system because of your actions?
Nope, I fear this is only in your head.

>You said his agenda was irrelevant. The last election results shows that the people of Canada disagree.
Not Quebec, though. Quebec is always 40 years ahead in terms of social conscience; the rest of Canada still thinks we're in the wild west, hanging people who steal cattle and not having sex before marriage.

>Why are you so reluctant to provide a source?
http://www.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/National/2011/09/29/001-brad-trost-avortement.shtml

>> No.3806213

>>3806175
>You are confusing students and anarchists showing up at manifestations.

Economic violence is still violence. Students disrupting summer festivals is violence.

>Nope, I fear this is only in your head.

Stop listening to propaganda. Do you have any evidence to back your position up?

PQ has slashed funding to universities and imposed retroactive budget cuts, meaning universities had to find a way to pay back money that had already been spent. Every university in Quebec, as a direct result of PQ (brought to power on the back of the student movement) policies and the inability to raise tuitions, has had to drastically cut funding for academic programs, especially in the arts, fire staff, and take on large debt.

There is no possible way you can argue that things haven't gotten worse for the Quebec post-secondary education system.

>Not Quebec, though. Quebec is always 40 years ahead in terms of social conscience; the rest of Canada still thinks we're in the wild west, hanging people who steal cattle and not having sex before marriage.

1. You are massively mischaracterizing the rest of Canada. Have you even visited Alberta? In the last provincial elections the Wildrose Party, who were predicted to win, saw their support drop dramatically (and they lost the election) after two of their MPs made homophobic and climate-change denying comments just two days before polls opened.

2. Don't pretend there's no intolerance in Quebec. Anglophones face a disgusting amount of discrimination everywhere in this province outside Montreal. Or are you just going to rationalize away intolerance that you like?

>http://www.radiocanada.ca/nouvelles/National/2011/09/29/001-brad-trost-avortement.shtml

That story is about one minor conservative official, not the party. And hilariously enough, his views were expressed in response to the conservatives deciding to fund the International Planned Parenthood Federation. Why don't you just admit that you either lied or were misled?

>> No.3806238

>>3806213
If I had my way, I'd have all of you anglophone parasites living in Québec have to learn French and never drop a word in English again or be shot (I guess we could have you expelled instead, though) .I don't want to argue with you guys, just pointing out that I despise every single one of you just like I despise these leftists and their social causes which are nothing but reciprocal social justification between subjects, just like religion as a vector of social gathering.

You don't belong here and you never will, just leave while the going is good.

>> No.3806247

>>3806238
>anglophone parasites

Funnily enough, Quebec is seen as parasitic because it demands oil revenues.

>> No.3806248

>>3806238
I speak French. Am I still not welcome, and if not, does that mean that anyone whose first language isn't French isn't welcome in Quebec?

>> No.3806253

>>3806248
If you speak French, then you're welcome. Anyone who wishes to live in a topos which is a linguistic minority facing the loss of its language and refuses to speak said language due to laziness or prejudice is not welcome in there.

>> No.3806257

>>3805876
Libritarian. Which is basically the government can't tell us what we can and can't do. And the only purpose for government is to protect our freedoms from being taken (of course murder, rape theft is still illegal)

>> No.3806279
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3806279

>>3805876
I am having some a resentment of my political beliefs.

I have always considered myself a leftist in terms of economic issues and social programs, but on a general social level, I am a libertarian. That is to say I believe in the Progressive-tax/Demand-side economics/Social Security/Social Welfare/Regulations/etc... AS WELL AS believing that anything that doesn't directly and negatively affect others shouldn't be under the government's control.

Of recent, I have began to see some validity in Fascism.
I am NOT a nationalist.
I am NOT a racist.
The only reason I think Fascism may hold water is that the democratic system is so goddamned inefficient and Socratic in nature.
Everything is slow.
At th end of the day, a compromise isn't nessecarily any better or worse than a radical decision.

Having said that, I think that Fascism isn't really a feasible system because power is too intoxicating. It would be abused in most circumstances.
I think democracy is a nessecary evil.

I also considered Anarchism for a while.
My view of human-nature is just too Hobbesian to let me believe in it, though.
If governments didn't arise, fiefdoms would. Gang-run communities would. Religious oppression would run rampant. People would rape, kill and steal from each other. But stealing wouldn't exist, so humans would consider taking another person's possessions simply competing for recourses.

I think a government is needed.

I think I am still a monetary/fiscal progressive and a social libertarian, but I am very dissatisfied with even the system I would want.

Books that inspired my political beliefs most are...
>"On the Genealogy of Morals" by Friedrich Nietzsche
>"Beyond Good and Evil" by Friedrich Nietzsche
>"Leviathan" by Thomas Hobbes
>"1984" by George Orwell
>"The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money" by John Keynes

>> No.3806281

>>3806279
I am from the USA, by the way.

>> No.3806343

I find myself agreeing with stances on both the conservative and liberal sides but feeling alienated from both of them.

At this point I just believe the so-called 'progressives' would just hurry up and destroy this country so that the new up-and-comers can have their chance at greatness. Maybe there is no hope left for me or the people around me, but there is hope for someone else.

>> No.3806825

What are your political beliefs, if you have any?
Communist

What books have influenced your politics?
For Whom The Bell Tolls
Patagonia Express
The Grapes Of Wrath

Are you involved in politics in any way, or do you want to become more politically active?
Very politically active, in the Communist Youth and Party. Member of a Students Association, numerous arrests etc..

Secondary question: where are you from?
Portugal

Has posted already, but only now saw you had made more than one question.

>> No.3806841

>>3806825
>Communism
>Grapes of Wrath
Wow. That just created a wormhole to the past killing Steinbeck. I hope you're proud.

>> No.3806850

>>3806841
You will understand one day, i'm sure. Nothing to lose though, your kind doesn't dwell on the streets of social existence.

>> No.3806857

>>3806850
>your kind doesn't dwell on the streets of social existence.
>your kind doesn't dwell on the streets of social existence.
>your kind doesn't dwell on the streets of social existence.

Oh God I'm laughing.

>> No.3806862

I'm a socialist. My grandfather(1907) used to say, the Liberals say the right things but in the end serve the interests of the rich, so if I were rich I would be liberal. Even the Communists say the right things but they want to take away private property, we have a house so we shouldn't vote for the Communists. We are socialists, neither the poor neither the rich, we struggle for something, and if it goes wrong we ask for help to the state

>> No.3806908
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3806908

>>3806862
The socialists are the absolute worst kind of leftists. At least communism and anarchism offer theoretically viable alternatives. Socialism is just a path to debt slavery.

>mfw socialists think they can borrow money from the banks forever

>> No.3806909

>>3806862
Someone hasn't been reading his Proudhon...
I recommend the reading of What Is Property? to understand what the notion of Private Property is, quite different from the terms we use today to describe things.
Communists do not wish to take your house, neither do they want to make your t-shirts common property. They want to make the means of production, fields suitable for production and factories, produce for the people who work in them, instead of going to a single person, who doesn't actually work in it.
Learn your Communism.

>> No.3806918

>>3806909
>Communists do not wish to take your house, neither do they want to make your t-shirts common property
And yet in every actual communist revolution, things like houses and clothing, what we conventionally think of as private property, have been redistributed...

>> No.3806922

>>3806918
Houses and clothing not being used. Houses were not taken from anyone but the high classes.

>> No.3806934

>>3806908
>thinks socialism is liberalism
>paul
>>>>>>>>>>/pol/

>> No.3806937
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3806937

Preconceived notions of "states" or "governments" are nary but spooks.

>> No.3806938

>>3806922
B-b-but that's not what they told me in amurcan HS ;_;

>> No.3806948
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3806948

This here my politics.

>> No.3806969

>>3806257
this was a joke, right?

>> No.3806970

I think that the only fair thing in theory is voluntaryism. Unfortunately, due to people being shitty and selfish, I doubt it would work in practice.

I'm a mid to right libertarian. I think a geniocracy is a good idea, though a morality test would certainly need to be encompassed in the selection process. There would need to be several (I'd say seven, since it's a fairly sized prime number) leaders, and turning down leadership would be an option.

>> No.3806974

Mixed-economy welfare statist hypocrite from Australia here.

>> No.3807034

>>3806125

Do you really believe this? http://occamsrazormag.wordpress.com/2013/04/27/what-are-characteristics-of-the-dark-enlightenment/

>> No.3807070

>>3807034
>scroll down
>fucking REI at the comment section

lelel

>> No.3807093

I'm a republican, I guess. A small-r republican. I believe in national sovereignty, a government of laws rather than of people, of tradition and culture, of representation and excellence in the political realm. I believe in sober, careful government. I am anti-imperialist. I think people are more or less equal before the law and in moral terms. I think that unchecked power is destructive in whatever form and requires laws and sources of power to check it. I think regulation of capital and corporations is incredibly necessary to protect the existence of small communities, to protect small economic holders, ultimately to protect the welfare of the people and the nation.

>> No.3807108

>>3807093
>I think regulation of capital and corporations is incredibly necessary to protect the existence of small communities, to protect small economic holders, ultimately to protect the welfare of the people and the nation.
You aren't a republican, not even a 'small r' one (whatever the fuck that means). You're a social democrat, congratulations. Consider reading Das Kapital.

>> No.3807124

I don't believe in democracy, I think the magnitude of the logical leap between 'the public have chosen this person for the job' and 'this person is the best for the job' is ignored or at least vastly underestimated

moves should be made away from the current system and towards evidence-based governance just as they were in medicine

acting like a succession of debates between overworked non-experts laden with conflicts of interest will lead to useful results is simple foolishness

>> No.3807147

>>3807108
First of all, those aren't social democratic or leftist ideas - all of those are pretty straightforwardly conservative ideas (unless you want to argue that guys like GK Chesterton, Pat Buchanan, most Catholic social thinkers, most pre-World War 2 conservatives etc are all social democrats). I'm not a Marxist (I don't believe that economics is the central locus of human interaction, I don't believe in class struggle, I don't believe in historical necessity) and I don't think I'm even a social democrat (I don't really believe in much of a welfare state, I believe pretty strongly in private and individual ownership and enterprise). I think the idea that liberal economic ideas - and really pretty extremist liberal economic ideas - are somehow conservative is pretty deeply misguided and fucking lunatic and a lot of the reason America is in as much trouble as it is. Protectionism is a conservative economic policy, historically. Opposition to unchecked large-scale economic interests is a conservative, populist value.

And not only are those conservative ideas, but they are also deeply republican ones. I mean, seriously, republican thinkers pretty much throughout history have argued that unchecked capital is destructive of political liberty. That wealth and greed have deeply harmful effects on politics. It was a commonplace of Rousseau, it was a commonplace of the Founding Fathers, it was a belief of Burke (look at his pursuit of the East India Company), it was certainly the belief of the classical republicans and the belief of republicans of the 19th century. You don't have any idea what you're talking about if you think that isn't a republican idea. Shit. Do you seriously think that total economic libertarianism has any relationship whatsoever to republican ideals?

>> No.3807151

Anarchist, but I go by Libertarian Socialist, because anarchy immediately suggests a utopian ideal to others while libertarian socialism suggests action we can actually take. I can't think of specific books, but collections of ideas from various authors and thinkers do come to mind. Noam Chomsky has definitely helped develop the comprehensiveness of my political views. Also the thinkers who focus on the universality of humanity to human beings. Not necessarily suggesting perfect equality, but a strong enough correlation between the human experience among people that we can work together for a better future. From the U.S. by the way. I would like to be politically active, but it is difficult to find groups where I live. Also, I value the individuality of my ideas and I feel like I would have to give some of that up if I were to join a group, which makes me hesitant.

>> No.3807197
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3807197

tfw in a thread full of Socialist French Faggots nobody has mentioned Jean Jacques Rousseau.

>> No.3807203

>>3807197
Rousseau rules

even though I disagree with a whole lot of his politics, both theoretically and practically. he's still a kickass writer.

>> No.3807249

>>3806133
>The fighting was not for the 300$, it was for the ethical principle.

Then you would have to maintain that the fighting would still have happened had there not been a proposed 300$ hike in the tuition rate.

You may then insist that it is precisely this increase which shocked your principles so very much, but I will reply that while this may be true, this fact is not accessible to the outside world (only you know your true intent). To us, your principle only seem to show up when you stand to lose an acquired priviledge, and we infer from it that your principles merely consists in the defense of your pecunary interests.

You may then try to hide it in order to appear more noble, but we're not buying it. In fact we hate you for it.

>> No.3807259

>>3807070
Yeah, I started giggling when I saw that.

>> No.3807261

>>3807034

I agree with some of their points, but those people are just insane. They're particularly dogmatic about science, but they want to propound religion throughout the West. They believe in relativism, but think that their designs are better than everyone else's. In short, edgy as fuck.

>> No.3807267

>>3807108
>not even a 'small r' one (whatever the fuck that means)
>(whatever the fuck that means)
lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican

Do I smell... American?

>> No.3807276

communist
USA

member in the local IWW, which has like 3 other guys in it
we just talk about work mostly, and rag on the hurr gender equality and ayn rand kiddies

>> No.3807300

Not quite sure where to put me. On the politcal spectrum charts I fall into "Anarcho-Socialist"

Basically, I want all rights, everyone on fair grounds (women in the army/draft? You betcha.) and the gov't is there to babysit. It only enforces the obvious laws of "don't kill, don't steal, ect" and it regulates the economy. Big business is absolutely disgusting but a necessary part of the modern life.

Not many books influenced me. More of just seeing people not being on fair level with my white male self.

>> No.3807306

>>3807300
white females are the real privileged ones, anon.

>> No.3807315
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3807315

>>3805876
>What are your political beliefs
Communist

>What books have influenced your politics?
Marx, Engels, Lenin, Debord, Chomsky, Zizek...
starting with with this: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm

>do you want to become more politically active?
I need to get more active.

>Secondary question: where are you from?
Eastern Europe

>but I don't really believe that anybody can be apolitical without getting depressed
pic related

>> No.3807347
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3807347

>What are your political beliefs
Reformed Fascist.

>What books (authors) have influenced your politics?
Fernando Pessoa, Adolf Hitler, Khalil Gebran, George Orwell, Giovanni Gentile, Estephan Doueihy, Antun Sa'deh

>do you want to become more politically active?
I already am active, joined a far right Liberal in Australia that fights against immigration and promotes assimilation (specifically for Muslim's) Yes, he is also Lebanese.

>Secondary question: where are you from?
North Lebanon

>> No.3807358

>>3807300
Women in frontline positions in the army is moronic, but the draft moreso. Imagine fighting a war where half of all of all your new drafted recruits are physically inferior, on average, to the other half. What the fuck you do? It would absolutely cripple your military. Even in peacetime armies where women can join, they only make up a small portion of all serving soldiers. Women should NOT be in the draft. It's not about privileges or responsibilities, it's about common sense.

>> No.3807365

Personal: Traditionalism/alt-right, /death immanent/, sun and steel
On a state level: Left-libertarianism

Evola, Dao De Jing, Zhuangzi, various post-left anarchist books, Nietzsche, Cantos. I see the main problem with politics being that it gives people what they collectively want at the cost of what they individually need. i.e. It fosters and gives solutions to common desires for appearance, comfort, happiness, money, approval - all the while reducing the human to a politico-economic integer manipulable by Jews, no, manipulable by the easiest means possible. The decadent human is the manageable human. Decadence is the structuring of a human who's manipulable by advertising, platitudes, democratic shared approval, the image of consensus and sameness. It's a flattening of the world to economic and social value (determined by recognition [bling and fame]). Money flattening the world, covered in the gleeful symbol of the monarch's severed head.

I have no problem with comfort, happiness, the material side of things, people being approved, sameness etc., but once they become ideals, and crowd out all else, the world gets very lopsided, and bereft of a spiritual/aesthetic/sublime sense. It also kills indifference and breeds pettiness. A lack of transcendence is a great tool for manipulability.

Basically, I ain't much into rationalism. Not that I particularly like theocracy.


Not interested in electoral politics. May become island dictator at some point. Not racist. If anything, think a lot of the West is vaguely pathetic. But then, think the same thing of ancestor-felatio in the east.

But also love all people.

'Straya.

>> No.3807425

I believe in (deliberative) democracy, federal constitutionalism, some aspects of liberalism (individual rights, existence of free markets), some aspects of anarchism (illegitimate authority should be abolished), some aspects of socialism (state regulation of some economic areas essential to social life).

Rawls, Habermas, Arendt, Adorno, Chomsky, Kant, Pericles (http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/education/thucydides.html))

Australia

not really directly involved in politics, though i do keep up with it and have commented on political aspects within the university system.

>> No.3807434

>>3807425
Pretty much this, except a bit more populist/conservative, and from America. Also you would probably want to copy/paste Arendt's name five or six times to accurately reflect the weight of the influence of the various authors on me.

>> No.3807439
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3807439

>>3807425
Thanks for reminding me!

Kant as well, fucking awesome philosopher and historian. Nationalist, devout Christian and unbelievably intelligent. Sickest. His Critique of Reason is one of my favourite philosophy books.

>> No.3807442
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3807442

>>3807347
>Reformed Fascist
>George Orwell

>> No.3807444
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3807444

>>3807439

r u trollin m8?

1. critique of pure reason is nobodies favourite book, no matter what they say or how much they admire kant.
2. wasn't a historian, didn't give a shit about history (thus hegel's criticism).
3. was not a nationalist in any narrow contemporary sense. he didn't think of "germans" but rather only ever spoke of humankind and their advancement in general.
4. devout christian yes but did not base his morals or politics in this. the categorical imperative functions without god, and his ideas of the state and political organisation are secular.
5. >sickest

3/10 made me reply

>> No.3807448

>>3807444
well, tbf, he doesn't say which 'critique of reason' is his favorite

(but that's probably because he doesn't know there are multiple ones, not because he loves critique of practical reason)

>> No.3807460

>>3807442
Sounds contradicting, but it really isn't. Fascism and Communism are NOT the same thing.

Fascism in essence, is counter communism, it is anti-communist as anti-communist can get. Notice George Orwell in 1984 with the COMMUNIST super states.

>>3807444
1. Sorry, because you have my exact taste in literature
2. I seem to have mistaken him with another Historian, my mistake.
3. He was a nationalist. He was a staunch Prussian.
4. I was really saying that he is one of my favourite authors. He does help me with my political stance in a way that is obviously unique to me and only me. Also.... Fascism is secular, lel. Mussolini, who maintained a relationship with the church was staunchly secular, much like the author I stated in my recommendation, Antun Sa'adeh.
5. Sickest, yes, slang in western suburbs of Sydney.

>> No.3807461
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3807461

>>3807365

>Personal: Traditionalism/alt-right, /death immanent/, sun and steel

>> No.3807472

>>3807448
I find his works relevant as I study historiography.

Forgive me, I'm all over the place today.

>> No.3807479

>>3807460

>staunch prussian

only because he though the prussian state under frederick 2.0 represented the greatest potential for the realisation of political freedom at the time.

http://philosophy.eserver.org/kant/what-is-enlightenment.txt

he endorsed the french revolution and the spread of those substantive ideals internationally regardless of the effects that would have on state sovereignty.

>He does help me with my political stance in a way that is obviously unique to me and only me.
>fascism
>tony abbot Liberalism

top lel. if he does, you're misinterpreting him. you're violently appropriating him for violent ends, which he would not approve of. even the fact that abbot uses asylum seekers to get the votes of plebs using people as means for political ends, which is not on for kant.

>western suburbs of Sydney
i grew up in liverpool. its weird/good that you can even think theoretically, but you're strange hodgepodge of ideas shows what a desperate situation the west is in and the fact that budding intellectuals such as yourself can't help but get sucked into the strange machiavellian agendas that plague the place.

>> No.3807491

>>3807479
Nah, not a Tony Abbot Liberal, the guy's from the western Suburbs and he's fighting against Islam in the suburbs basically. He's actually an opponent of Abbot's.

Uhhh, I think I kind of have my argument all over the place here. When I was referring to Kant, I was simply saying that I like him as an author and as a person.

Sorry man, but if you have steam or something, you could educate me a bit more on Kant? Would be more than happy.

>> No.3807492

>>3807491

just start a thread asking where to start with kant, especially some good secondary material that gives an overview. it took me a long time to get into him, happened over years and even now my knowledge is pretty basic, so better off doing that.

>> No.3807507

>>3807492
Thanks. Also, when I said I was a reformed Fascist, it's basically National Socialism with no ethnocentricism.
>Nationalistic
>Anti-Communist
They form the basis of the social political aspect. I need to find a new word for my political view, it's related with too many negative views.

Thank you anyway anon. I was at Warwick farm a few hours ago actually. Fucking hate this area. >.>

>> No.3807514

>>3807507

i don't know whether to laugh or cry at what you just said. hopefully a better understanding of liberalism will make you see why that view is absurd and dangerous.

>> No.3807517

>>3807514
There's a reason why I'm not a liberal. You just have to be from a country where the people who created the country no longer have a say in.

>> No.3807524

>>3807517
Oh, don't be an idiot. Jesus.

>> No.3807525

>>3807524
Don't be hating, be appreciating.

I'm actually a right leaning centrist, but Fascism is just such a fun view to have ;__;

>> No.3807531

>>3807525
Fine, whatever, just please don't run into any stupid bloviating about how the white man isn't in control of his country anymore and it's political correctness gone mad and all that kind of stupid thing. Welfare babies or whatever. Shit.

>> No.3807534

>>3807531
>defending the white man
>white man prevented a man from my hometown, Youssef Bek Karam from liberating my country

yeahhhhh nah.

>> No.3807536

>>3807534
sorry. must have misinterpreted you.

>> No.3807539

>>3807536
It's 4chan, we're all having fun and learning at the same time.

I love my country and I love tradition as well as my religion, but I'm pro-gay-marriage and all. Don't worry, I'm not a fuckin' extremist nazi or a white power advocate.

>> No.3807551

Social - far left
Economic - centrist

Yes, you can be both, you horrible fucks. You can allow great personal freedom and still balance the books, and you start doing this by making business understand that their ability to operate in society is a privilege, not a right.

If they don't want to play, fuck off, go set up in Liberia or wherever, there will always be people willing to step into the void and fulfil your function for a smaller piece of the pie.

>> No.3807568

>>3807461
>clinging to the enlightenment
>writing about the horror story of modernity but still being into it
>reading Weber and supporting rationalism
>believing things have to have a humanistic telos
>thinking reason and humanism can even gel coherently
Nice philosopher, guy.

>> No.3807571

>>3806937
The interesting part is when you realise that everything is a spook, including you.
Then everything is spirit.

>> No.3807573

>>3807568
Read Strauss?

>> No.3807577

>>3807573
No. What should I start on?

>> No.3807585

>>3807577
Natural Right and History is the best starting point in general & it also has a very interesting critique of Weber.

You may or may not agree with Strauss but he is always, always interesting, thought provoking, and insightful. And definitely most of the things you're talking about are major concerns of his.

>> No.3807590

>>3807585
Thanks. I saw him in an Adam Curtis documentary and was repulsed, but having read his wikipedia article I think I might have been given a charicature. I'll give it a read.

>> No.3807592

>>3807590
Yeah his reputation has taken some very odd turns, for a lot of reasons (at least in part because he can be a very odd, obscure, difficult to comprehend writer). I think it's kind of unfair to the guy.

>> No.3807664
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3807664

>>3807197

>mfw plebs don't mention Edmund Burke either

>> No.3807673

>>3807347
>George Orwell
he was a socialist

>> No.3807745

>>3807673
I'm sure he was.

>> No.3807770

>>3807745
He was dude...

>> No.3807780

>>3807770
Wasn't being sarcastic

>> No.3807934

>>3807673
Not any kind of Socialist. A Revolutionary Socialist who enlisted in the spanish brigades to kill people like >>3807347

>> No.3807976

>>3807347
Fuck you man

>> No.3808010

>>3807934
>>3807934
Nawwwwww, the leftists seem to be a bit agitated that even though I put fascist down to tease people like you, are also intimidated by the fact that Fascist's were more successful!

It's fine, one day comrades, one day.

>> No.3808078

I support UKIP.

>> No.3808080

>>3808010
The commies had a longer streak than the fascists in general.

>> No.3808084

I'm just wondering the financial status of the Marxists in this thread. I've never met one myself but they tend to be rich and out of touch.

>> No.3808090

>>3808080
Lel, the U.S. could be classified as a classical fascist state.

Even if the Fascists had a shorter streak, their economics worked a hell of a lot better.

>> No.3808093

>>3808080
Kind of appropriate, really, for the commies to be long-lasting technocrats & the fascists to go out in a blaze of glory

>>3808090
>Lel, the U.S. could be classified as a classical fascist state.

Under what fucktarded definition of fascism?

>> No.3808098

>>3808093
Oh I don't know? Corporatism?

Oh and no, Communists are Communists because they're a product of decadence.

>> No.3808102

>>3808098
>Communists are Communists because they're a product of decadence.

In the western world*

>> No.3808103

>>3808098
fuck off u paki lmao

>> No.3808111

>>3808098
Is America corporatist in a meaningful sense (IE, isn't it pretty much just run by big business - I think there's a difference between a corrupt government and an intentional policy of corporatism)? Is corporatism in itself sufficient to call something fascist? Was corporatism even that central to fascist ideology? (it really, really wasn't)

>> No.3808115

>>3808111
Yes. Corporatism, according to Mussolini IS Fascism.

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini

>> No.3808117
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3808117

>mfw lebo cunts collecting welfare in oz calling themselves fascists and shitposting about it

>> No.3808126

>>3808117
>collecting welfare
>parents both pay tax and never collected welfare, ever

Contribute more to Australian society than you do m8.

>> No.3808142

>>3808010
>I'm Master Trollllllll ToP LeL! This was exactly what i wanted all along!!! Not to be ridiculous but to trollll yall!

There's this magical place for people like you called /b/

>> No.3808173

>>3808126
>parents

>> No.3808182

I'm mostly apolitical. Anarcho-individualist, maybe. Books I like:
Nozick's "Anarchy, State and Utopia."
Carl Schmitt's "The Concept of the Political."
>No nazi
Stirner's.
Aristotle's "Nicomachean Ethics."
Freud's "Civilization and Its Discontents."

I'm from Barcelona.

Well, my apoliticism is obviously related to my pessimist view on Humanity, but I can't say it makes me depressed. I think our society is shit and our politics suck. But I don't really care since I think this is what people deserve for being retards and swallowing our oligarchy's lies like the sheeple they are. For me it's ok, I'm pretty confident in my capacity to adapt myself to any environment.

>> No.3808185

>>3808173

Well obviously, what's the point of me paying tax if both my parents are collecting welfare?

That's like, counter-productive.

>> No.3808198

>>3808090
>Lel, the U.S. could be classified as a classical fascist state.
Welp. I can't argue against that.
And all commie dictatorships that actually succeeded ended up resembling actual fascist dictatorships rather than the dictatorship of the proletariat.

>> No.3808199

>>3808115
Mussolini was not a fascist intellectual. He was a clown.

If you look at fascist writings, there's a lot of things they put more weight on than corporatism; if you look at fascist governments, corporatism was not a meaningful priority for them.

>>3808182
How do you like Schmitt, if you're an anarcho-individualist?

>> No.3808218

>>3808198
Uhhh, the definition of Fascism is really, really hazy. I mean, there's so many different forms that pinpointing what it is turns out to be really difficult.

I guess forms of Fascism such as the one you're suggesting could be a government staring down at your every movement, but I've heard and read from other people that actually believe there's libertarian forms as well.

>>3808199
Mussolini had a government, and it was classified as fascist. see my reply to the other comment.

>> No.3808223

>>3808199
I like his definition of the essence of the political (not his erection for the modern state, obviously). I don't see pacifist actions achieving anything worthy.

>> No.3808228

>>3808218
Fascism is not libertarian in any meaningful sense (arguably it has a concern with liberty but it pretty much always constructs liberty as the freedom obtained from belonging to The People and freely matching your will to their will, and that's not a libertarian understanding of liberty at all), and Mussolini had a government that was fascist but that doesn't mean his words define what fascism is for all time.

>> No.3808230

>>3808185
I called you a leech and you said 'my parents aren't leeches' which means you are either deflecting or naturally assuming your parents are responsible for your economical situation which makes you underage.

>> No.3808238

>>3808228
Right-wing libertarians are very close to the fascists. Actually, they have helped eachother (sometimes making it difficult to tell what makes them different) during most of the 20th century.

>> No.3808247

>>3808238
Sure. I think that's mostly about class interests, cultural ties, and right-wing libertarians being idiots and/or using right-wing libertarian beliefs as a thin veneer for basically fascist concerns. But I think the intellectual difference between them is pretty noticeable and well-defined.

>> No.3808248
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3808248

>>3808230
Well, your parents can be very responsible of your economical situation even if you're not underage.

>> No.3808257

Democratic socialist
The Road to Wigan Pier (beforehand I was a Randroid).
I joined the Labour party in 2010 when I was 18 and have been it since. I go to party meetings when at home where we discuss potential policy, local issues and have guest speakers.

>> No.3808261

>>3808257
*been in it

>> No.3808265

>>3808248
>>3808223
Thank you kind sir.

And yes, what I was trying to say was that even if I was working and they weren't, they'd be leeching off the government more than I would be paying as tax, BUT, if both of them are working and I'm not that means they're paying for my welfare (if I was on welfare, which I'm not).

>> No.3808266

>>3808247
Franco's dictatorship was a mix of both ideologies. Their official ideology was mainly based on Cotholiticism, but his politics were a mix of fascism and right-wing libertarianism. It's difficult to tell to what extent is one thing or the other... It's basically the same (well, the fascist faction lost control of the situation and the libertarian/technocratic faction rised, but nowadays they are practically the same, with common interests).

>> No.3808281
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3808281

>>3807365
You're 2deep4me, brah.

>> No.3808296

ITT: the poor

>> No.3808302

>>3808266
>Catholiticism
Fix'd

>> No.3808316

>>3808266
Indeed it is. But that's Franco, not Salazar, not the SK military, Chiang Kai Shek, Franco or Hitler. That's what makes defining fascism hard.

>> No.3808324

>>3806279
>I also considered Anarchism for a while.
>My view of human-nature is just too Hobbesian to let me believe in it, though.
Well, I can totally relate to this. Since I remember I considered myself an Anarchist. I eventually realized I'm surrounded by retards, and Anarchism needs responsible people to exist. Anarchy on a paranoid and affraid society means chaos, misery and war.

>> No.3808341

I was an 'anarchist' as a teen but when I started reading I declared myself a socialist
orwell had a lot of influence on that
then I started working and declared myself an ancom

>> No.3808344

>>3808341
It's funny because Orwell wasnt an actual socialist.

>> No.3808355

>>3806028
In what country did it take that?

>> No.3808399
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3808399

>What are your political beliefs
Green Libertarian Socialism

>What books have influenced your politics?
Orwell, Marx, Kropotkin, Leopold Kohr, EF Schumacher, Murray Bookchin

>do you want to become more politically active?
Yes, I am just emerging from a very pessimistic and apolitical phase. For a few years now I have completely ignored politics, believed that it was pointless, people were too stupid, mankind is fucked etc. I think I am beginning to come out of that at the moment, I still think there are tough times ahead, really rough times, but there is hope.

>> No.3808431

>communism
>fascism
>socialism
Did you giys all just eat the shit your liberal fuckhead professor spewed at you, ate you that liberal fuckhead professor, or are you guys literally fucking retarded?

>> No.3808438

Traditionalist conservative. Aristotle, Burke, and a class in political theory with readings from the usual suspects. Also social science in general.

I am not, and have no interest in being politically active at this time, but at a later time, when I'm more educated, I will be.

I'm an American.

>> No.3808444

>>3808431
Did you just eat the shit your conservative fuckhead politician spewed at you, ate you that conservative fuckhead politician, or are you literally fucking retarded?

>> No.3808460

>>3808431
dad pls go

>> No.3808474

Competition over cooperation. Dont really care about the economic implications of this; im concerned more Specifically with regard to social interaction.

In many ways, i see our petty everyday competitions to be the primary obstacle to truly cooperative socialism far more than any . economic principle.

Think helen of troy.

>> No.3808508
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3808508

>>3806125 explains my position pretty well.

>> No.3808514

>>3808444
>2013
>still following ideologies

>> No.3808516
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3808516

>>3806279
>I am NOT a racist
Racism is a core belief of National Socialism which was a variant a fascism; fascism itself has nothing to do with race.

>> No.3808521

>>3808516

The blood and soil rhetoric of fascists would like a word with you.

>> No.3808524

>>3808521
>blood and soil
National Socialism.

>> No.3808526

>2013
>not being individualist fascist

>> No.3808532

>>3808460
>>3808444
Sorry, must've forgotten about all the successful cases of communism/socialism/fascism... oh wait, you're a fucking retard.

>> No.3808533

>>3808526
oxymoron

>> No.3808534

>>3808533
Why should it be? Individualist anarchism exists as well.

>> No.3808541

>>3808534
>>3808533 is right.

Fascism is more about disappearing into an organic, self-similar socio-political whole.

>> No.3808542

>>3808534
Fascism is about the nation, not the individual.

>> No.3808546

>>3808542
>>3808541
North Korea

>> No.3808551

>>3808546
NK is communist, not fascist.

>> No.3808554

>>3808532
>must've forgotten about all the successful cases of communism/socialism/fascism

Yeah, you did forget about all those times when communism, anarchism and fascism did exist successfully. The Russian soviets before the Bolshevik victory, the Spanish anarchist communities in Catalonia, Nazi Germany worked quite well on its own terms (as viewed from a fascist POV). How about you read some history mate?

>> No.3808555

>>3808542
But I take the fascist approach regarding the nation and apply it towards the Self.

>> No.3808556

>>3808551
NK's "communism" is so nationalistic that I would venture to say it is more fascist than communist, even if it's leaders would never admit it

>> No.3808558

>>3808555
It doesn't work like that.

>> No.3808560

>>3808554
lol riiiiight. Sooooo successful. How could I be so blind.

>> No.3808562

The best ideology is which breeds the largest and most terrifying war machines. This is clearly some form of corporatism. So corporatism rains supreme. Might is right, authoritarian centrism for life etc.

>> No.3808565

>>3808554
>Germany worked quite well on its own terms

Ummm, no. Just no. The war-machine world domination thing was integral to it and it self-destructed. Catalonia and the Mahknovists were destroyed from without.

>> No.3808566

>>3808558
So individualist anarchism is faulty as well?

>> No.3808567

>>3808558
Yes, it does. IN FUCKING NORTH KOREA!

>> No.3808569

>>3808560
Not him but Nazi Germany was a good place to live. I'm not sure about other countries because I haven't studied them but Hitler's Germany looked after its people.

>> No.3808570

>Anarcho-Syndicalist
>Chomsky Books
>Germany

>> No.3808573

>>3808562
Mecha Robo Fighting Future 4lyf.

>> No.3808576

>>3808566
Anarchism is a system where everyone looks after themselves so no.

>> No.3808578

Theocracy where religious leader enforces already interpreted religious texts. Kinda like Pope leads the world. He's not like the Mormons or something where he's a prophet but just enforces doctrine already written.

>> No.3808582

>>3808569
Until...

>> No.3808583

>>3808576
Actually what's generally regarded as anarchism is collectivist as fuck.

>> No.3808584

>>3808562
filippo marinetti unzipping.exe

>> No.3808588

Ideally : Libertarian (real one, not the american corporate slave strain)
Practically : Social Democrat

>> No.3808596

>>3808554
>doesn't know about the based italian communists

>> No.3808600

>>3808596
>doesn't know the definition of success

>> No.3808625

>>3808556
>leaders
There's only one, he's worshipped as a God, and conveys not but state propaganda and military prospects. Sounds like a fascist to me.

>> No.3808633

>>3808600
>collecting printed green paper is success

>> No.3808646

>>3808633
>spoken like a true communist
Yes, comrade. Ze money.

>> No.3808659

>>3808516
I know that. I was just making it clear.

>> No.3808674

>>3808633
>communist
>measures success in capital
Nice!

>> No.3808711

We should have a representative government chosen by lottery. 2 year terms.

>> No.3808733

>>3808711
I think a modified system of Roman Consulship would be a good idea.

>> No.3808776

This thread is completely potato.

>> No.3808791

Started out very conservative (grew up in rural midwest), became liberal because of books. Reading stuff like Edward Abbey and "Silent Spring" made me more environmental while "Brave New World" and other dystopian lit made me less inclined towards the authoritarianism underlying American conservativism.

I also recently finished Goodkind's Sword of Truth series and absolutely hated it by the end. His preachy and ironically broken Objectivist aesops got really old and ruined a series that started out decent. "Atlas Shrugged" is on my summer reading list, but I'm not sure how I'm going to make it through Rand's long-winded, anvilicious monologues.

>> No.3808827

In America
>conservative=allowing private citizens to cheat, lie, innovate, compete, and become rich off each other.
>liberal=government officials taking everyone's money, then wasting it, after they've taken their own hefty portion
Pick one

>> No.3808931

>>3808827
>not at all biased

>> No.3808953

>>3808791
>broken aesops
>anvilicious

You keep that shit where it belongs

>> No.3808955

>>3808827
>America
>meaning usa
Pick one