/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Wed May 22 08:22:15 2013 No.3781911 [Reply] [Original]

Has anyone here adopted a philosophy of living that has changed their life or brought them out of a depressive, dreadful life? If so, what philosophy was it? I'm looking for a philosophy that can change you as a religion can change a criminal into a decent, happy civilian. I prefer to stay away from religion as I find it corrupt. Too many innocent lives have been taken from religious wars and persecutions.

Anonymous Wed May 22 08:36:16 2013 No.3781932

>>3781911

Yes, the Gospel according to Matthew, Mark, John and Luke, i.e. the teachings of Jesus Christ. I was lost but now I am found, I was blind but now can see.

Do not confuse the religious institutions with the teachings of J.C., for they are different things.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 08:37:16 2013 No.3781933 >>3781932 lol

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 08:37:16 2013 No.3781934 >>3781932 this

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 08:39:16 2013 No.3781938 My genuine recommendation to you would be Stoicism. Read up on it, start anywhere.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 08:41:15 2013 No.3781940 Notions of right and wrong stem from the act of believing. Don't believe, think. Think for yourself. Read around, you just might find something you like. TL;DR I found that Nietzsche was very, very helpful to me.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 08:43:15 2013 No.3781943 >>3781932 I will not worship a God that found amusement in mass slaughtering, sexism, and sacrifices for his sake.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 08:43:15 2013 No.3781944 >>3781911 William Lane Craig's Reasonable Faith is for you, anon.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 08:44:15 2013 No.3781946 Christianity

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 08:46:15 2013 No.3781948 >>3781943 God loves you despite your tiny brain and tainted heart. Isn't He wonderful?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 08:48:16 2013 No.3781954 >>3781940 My notions of right and wrong stem from the consequences of their actions. I'm strictly a consequentialist. >>3781938 Stoicism is definitely intriguing. I will look into it.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 08:51:16 2013 No.3781961 >>3781948 Stop with the trolling. If your serious, the Judaic god is not loving. Have you read the old testament.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 08:58:16 2013 No.3781973 >>3781961 The Jew part of the Bible is black evil.

Anonymous Wed May 22 08:58:16 2013 No.3781974

Btw guys, I grew up in a christian family. I was forced to go to church. It definitely has affected my life whether I want it to or not. I've read the entire bible. I was forced to memorize the books of the bible in their exact order. I dont believe in god. Simple as that. Since when has /lit/ been filled with Christians? I thought /lit/ was reasonable and logical.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 08:59:16 2013 No.3781976 Zen.

Anonymous Wed May 22 09:03:15 2013 No.3781982

>>3781973
Yet the new testament threatens you to burn forever if you are an unbeliever. Loving god, eh? I also love how Christians pretend to be the minority and that they are oppressed.
I did not want this to turn into a religious topic.
The only legit response has been stoicism. Thank you poster.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 09:04:15 2013 No.3781983 Stoicism, Epicureanism, Cynicism.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 09:04:15 2013 No.3781984 >>3781974 >reasonable and logical Rebellion against God isn't reason, it's pride.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 09:06:16 2013 No.3781985 >>3781982 >I did not want this to turn into a religious topic. You asked for >a philosophy that can change you as a religion can change a criminal into a decent, happy civilian. and Christianity is more effective at doing this than anything else.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 09:06:16 2013 No.3781987 I've lived by an Epicurean philosophy for the most part, and still find myself regretful. I think it's a natural part of aging. Though, lately I might be falling in more with the stoics. As much as I hate to say it.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 09:06:16 2013 No.3781988 >>3781961 He is, thanks to Jesus' sacrifice for you. Have you read the New Testament?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 09:07:16 2013 No.3781989 >>3781974 Faith is reasonable and logic. Read Pascal.

Anonymous Wed May 22 09:08:15 2013 No.3781993

>>3781982

If you post an open question on a public, anonymous forum, do not be a sniveling brat if you get answers you don't like.

I'd suggest registering to the Edgy Society instead. I've heard they have forums full of neckbeards.

You'll feel at home there.

>>>/b/

Anonymous Wed May 22 09:08:16 2013 No.3781992

>>3781911
>Has anyone here adopted a philosophy of living that has changed their life or brought them out of a depressive, dreadful life?

>But all the optimism of the age had been false and disheartening for this reason, that it had always been trying to prove that we fit in to the world. The Christian optimism is based on the fact that we do not fit in to the world. I had tried to be happy by telling myself that man is an animal, like any other which sought its meat from God. But now I was really happy, for I had learnt that man is a monstrosity. I had been right in felling all things as odd, for I myself was at once worse and better than all things. . . . The modern philosopher had told me again and again that I was in the right place, and I had still felt depressed, even in acquiescence. But I had heard that I was in the wrong place, and my soul sang for joy, like a bird in spring

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 09:09:15 2013 No.3781995 >>3781976 Thanks. I've considered this. It seems you can adopt the philosophy without necessarily being a believer. Any suggestions for reading? >>3781938 I downloading A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy. Seems like a good start.

Anonymous Wed May 22 09:11:15 2013 No.3782002

>>3781985
Christianity is a very powerful religion. The Sermon on the Mount is one of the better dictatorial takes on normative ethics, if not the best. I am not Christian, though, for various reasons. Even so, I have to credit it for being incredibly effective self-medication, even if some of the side-effects are on the extreme side.

Anonymous Wed May 22 09:15:15 2013 No.3782007
File: 53 KB, 271x271, Soren.Kierkegaard.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Christianity of course.

>Is it an excellence in your love that it can love only the extraordinary, the rare? If it were love’s merit to love the extraordinary, then God would be — if I dare say so — perplexed, for to Him the extraordinary does not exist at all. The merit of being able to love only the extraordinary is therefore more like an accusation, not against the extraordinary nor against love, but against the love which can love only the extraordinary. Perfection in the object is not perfection in the love. Erotic love is determined by the object; friendship is determined by the object; only love of one’s neighbor is determined by love. Therefore genuine love is recognizable by this, that its object is without any of the more definite qualifications of difference, which means that this love is recognizable only by love.

>Perfection in the object is not perfection in the love.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 09:15:15 2013 No.3782004 >>3781983 Any suggestive readings for Epicureanism and Cynicism. Maybe somethings that give an overview rather than going straight to the works.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 09:18:15 2013 No.3782012 >>3781993 I did not mean to come off as some edgy faggot. I clearly stated in OP, I prefer to stay away from religion.

Anonymous Wed May 22 09:19:15 2013 No.3782013

>>3782002
>The Sermon on the Mount is one of the better dictatorial takes on normative ethics, if not the best.

If you try and turn Christianity into a system of ethics like any other then you've entirely missed the point. It's not about whether or not you think it has wise sayings, but about whether or not you can believe in Christ's glad tidings.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 09:20:16 2013 No.3782016 File: 490 KB, 480x340, Carlton.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3782007 Fucking solid.

Anonymous Wed May 22 09:24:15 2013 No.3782020

>>3782004
Listen to this:
http://www.historyofphilosophy.net/epicurus-ethics
Then go right into these and the rest of the works on this site
http://www.epicurus.net/en/principal.html
http://www.epicurus.net/en/vatican.html

http://www.historyofphilosophy.net/cynics
There are no real works from the cynics, but Luis Navia's book on them is usually recommended here as the place to start, you can find it online pretty easily

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 09:29:16 2013 No.3782028 >>3782007 Oh kierke, i love you

Anonymous Wed May 22 09:29:16 2013 No.3782029

>>3782013
I said I wasn't a Christian. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate some select aspects of Christ's teachings. To be honest, the parts of the Sermon on the Mount which bothered me most were the ones in which God is said to promise you stuff. Plato made the same mistake, in my opinion, except worse, as he argued that virtue was the road to the good life, or at least seemed to. So such things were far more of a cop-out in his case. Still like Plato, though. Probably more than Jesus, sorry to say.

Anonymous Wed May 22 09:32:15 2013 No.3782032

>>3781961
He who gives takes away. Do not pretend to understand why God would do the things he does. Evil is the lack of good, and results from humans turning away from God and forcing the good out of the world, thus God is unable to sustain life, and thus death follows.

Also, *you're

>>3781982
God does not "threaten" you with eternal hellfire. He just tells you the consequence of turning away from you, out of love for you, so you know what will result from your actions. If God sustains all life, and you deny God, then you will die. That is what Hell is, being apart from God, and therefore eternal death.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to God's decision to give us free will. Why God did this, we do not know, because the misuse of our will has brought about incredible suffering for us. The only explanation that we can come up with is that the good brought from using this will righteously is somehow greater then that of being "good" like a rock or animal is good, operating only on instinct. But, at the end of the day, we cannot presume to know God. God does what he does because he is God and He can.

No, I cannot prove God exists to you. But, the problem of "evil" or of bible passages you misinterpreted does not somehow disprove God or the good of his organizations on Church. Yes, humans are all pretty evil people, so evil will result from people no matter where they are. But, these institutions can still help bring you closer to God, as they consist of thousands of years of trying to understand Him, so they know a little bit more about it than you do. After all, we see teachers sexually abuse children, but we don't blame it on the entire educational system, do we?

tl;dr - read the Brothers Karamazov, b/c this is /lit/.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 09:36:15 2013 No.3782043 >>3781995 Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind is short and no-nonsense. There is not really anything to 'believe' in Zen, especially not in a religious sense.

Anonymous Wed May 22 09:38:15 2013 No.3782048

>>3782032
>>He who gives takes away.

Please pardon me, brother, though I believe the Lord Himself led Job to retract that expression when he said that, after being hit by Lucifer.

The Lord gives, he does not take away. When something is taken away, it is taken away in our eyes and according to our system of values and our limited knowledge, though for Him it is different, for His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not His thoughts.

It is the prince of darkness and our free will failing to resist him which takes away.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 09:40:16 2013 No.3782054 >>3782048 His = ours. Awful sentence. I apologize.

Anonymous Wed May 22 09:44:16 2013 No.3782056

>>3782048
Ah yes, thanks for that catch, makes more sense with my entire post that way anyway.

Really, I was trying to get at those old testament bible verses where God does things like order Saul to wipe out the women and children of that one tribe. One way you can look at this is that God was simply asking Saul to do something that would happen anyway, which is what I was alluding to. Of course, there are other ways to target that specific verse, but who wants to turn this into THAT specific of a theology thread?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 09:48:16 2013 No.3782063 File: 80 KB, 707x770, 1297560776410.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3781911 >wants a philosophy to fix life >doesn't want religion because of human error >mfw philosophy must have existed before humans then ..

Anonymous Wed May 22 10:01:15 2013 No.3782082
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>>3781911
What tends to be my own idiosyncratic hodgepodge towards salvation upon an attempt of distanced observation of tendencies:

Inner Circle: Heraclitus, Taoists, Cynics, Sceptics, Stirner
Associates: Epicureans, Cyrenaics, Stoics, Zennists, Vedantists, Libertines, Nietzsche, Luddy Dubs
Outer circle: Miscellaneous Buddhists, assorted mystics. Schopenhauer

Guessing from your post I'd say you'd like Stoicism. Especially Epictetus.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 10:07:15 2013 No.3782094 >>3782082 What about Heraclitus?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 10:10:15 2013 No.3782101 >>3782056 It depends. When I am in the mood I can preach quite comfortably.

Anonymous Wed May 22 10:11:15 2013 No.3782103

>>3782043
Thanks for the suggestion. I was able to find the book easily.

To the people still talking about Christianity, I know the profound effects it can have on a person's life. My dad was a heavy alcoholic and drug user most of my childhood. It had negative psychological effects on me so I was unable to ever look up to my dad as some kind of hero like most kids do, still don't respect him to this day. Then my dad found "god". He went to church twice a week and went cold turkey off of everything with no problems. This lasted about 5 years and he quit going to church. Now he is in the same situation as before, if not worse. I know some people are better off with religion. I am not one of them.

Anonymous Wed May 22 10:13:15 2013 No.3782107

>>3782082

>Taoists other than Chuang Tzu

fucking no, nigga, quit being so naive and white. The religion is just another godawful cult with very little to unify it philosophically, you might as well say you find "Christians" to have a great philosophy of living.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 10:15:15 2013 No.3782110 >>3782082 Room for any post-structuralists in there?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 10:17:15 2013 No.3782113 Absurdism seems to be helping.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 10:20:15 2013 No.3782119 >>3782082 Thanks. Yes. Stoicism definitely seems to be what I'm looking for. I will definitely give all your other suggestions a brief look and if I find them interesting, I will bookmark a book or two on that particular philosophy.

>>	None !!lZetafI6z8s Wed May 22 10:26:15 2013 No.3782129 File: 11 KB, 300x216, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3782082 curious, goats, why heraclitus?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 10:28:16 2013 No.3782136 >>3782094 >>3782129 Better question: why not Parmenides too?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 10:31:16 2013 No.3782140 File: 52 KB, 300x300, normal_various039.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] mfw people can't deal with it so they drop pyrrhonian scepticism & take a leap of faith top lel

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 10:32:16 2013 No.3782141 >>3782136 Parmenides was a retard. >Nothing changes, your senses are LYING TO YOU so all your evidence to the contrary is bullshit! It's all a conspiracy, we can't trust anything we see! NOOOOOO!!!!

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 10:34:15 2013 No.3782146 File: 509 KB, 1498x984, Buddhabooks (2).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] obligatory Buddhism lit

None !!lZetafI6z8s Wed May 22 11:01:15 2013 No.3782191

>>3782082
also, I acquired a 30 day ban to study the hellenistic philosophies and go through nietzsche's output in order and wouldn't be posting now if I weren't at the hospital for an awful, awful awful rash on my cock & balls... so I've been meaning to ask you if you've ever read any of the classic tantric texts? I went through them all yesterday, some parts were actually quite good. They seemed confused though on whether they were ubernihilists or the standard indian mystic spiritual

Anonymous Wed May 22 11:02:15 2013 No.3782192
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>>3782107
Relax friend, I was referring to Laozi and Zhuangzi. I don't care for the folk religion and alchemist/esoteric side of it. I thought that would be obvious by the company I placed them in.

>>3782110
Have yet to read any, but the time hasn't felt right yet.

>>3782094
>>3782129
Flux and unity of opposites, basically. And I just really like him.

>>3782136
Would be too assuming, I've yet to refresh my knowledge of him. I do think he and Heraclitus are more alike than opposite though, as is often suggested.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 11:06:15 2013 No.3782196 Not OP, but I have a question about stoicism. Can a person be a stoic and still be madly in love with each? They seem to contradict

Anonymous Wed May 22 11:07:15 2013 No.3782197

>>3782191
Hindu tantric or Vajrayana tantric? I've always found the subject interesting (especially the Himalayan yogi/crazy wisdom tradition and the Aghori sect) but I've never looked into it much beyond some online reading of secondary stuff.

Good luck with that rash. But if you get through Nietzsche in a month you're rushing it.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 11:09:15 2013 No.3782200 Reading a lot about humanism along with (no joke) Lil B's "based" philosophy made me a much happier, more positive person.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 11:18:16 2013 No.3782218 Absurdism (The Myth of Sysyphus is an excellent introductory lecture)

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 11:20:16 2013 No.3782223 File: 90 KB, 496x760, prrhotip.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3782140 >feelio they don't realise Pyrrhonism is actually the most unadulterated mysticism, no leap of faith required

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 11:22:15 2013 No.3782225 Gandhi and Kagawa, and then eventually altruism and Christianity

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 11:30:16 2013 No.3782243 >>3781989 >Pascal Oh man, this fucking nigga.

None !!lZetafI6z8s Wed May 22 11:39:16 2013 No.3782257

>>3782197
I don't truly expect to finish reading all of Nietzsche, just get started on steadily reading him. Before now I've only read tgs and tsz, and parts of the others
went through song of gorakh, royal song of saraha, tilopa's song of mahamudra, nagarjuna's vision of mahamudra, Vigyan Bhairav Tantra.. some were a lot better than others but some very interesting stuff in there... started reading some of the upanishads but they aren't as interesting. tried Kabir and the songs of the bauls as well but both were just too spooky for me / second rate rumi-tier trash

The rash turned out fine. 90% sure I had an allergic reaction to some sketchy lube or something, wasn't an std or anything thank the lord

Anonymous Wed May 22 12:14:15 2013 No.3782299

>>3782257
Praise Nagarjuna for his two truth doctrine. I find most tantric stuff often too firmly entrenched in the whole local god scene to really capture my interest as something that will benefit me somehow. I tend to lose my patience with too much mythological obscurity.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 12:18:15 2013 No.3782306 >>3781911 theravada buddhism, doing mindfulness meditation

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 12:24:15 2013 No.3782311 File: 26 KB, 250x250, 1364215724100.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3782225

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 14:49:16 2013 No.3782545 File: 436 KB, 750x545, 1362601562717.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3781989 > today > Pascal > reasonable and logical > Pascal's Wager

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:00:15 2013 No.3782563 File: 32 KB, 328x130, zizek lol.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I felt like a stronger person after reading Seneca and Marcus Aurelius, but still about as mopey and miserable as ever.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:05:15 2013 No.3782577 >>3781944 One of the most intellectual dishonest and laughable books I've ever come across.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:05:15 2013 No.3782576 >>3782306 Where would someone start with this? I understand basic concepts like the idea of Buddha, the eightfold path, the four noble truths, and how everything is connected.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:12:15 2013 No.3782593 >>3781974 It's kind of sad but /lit/ is filled with apologetics.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:17:16 2013 No.3782601 >>3781944 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nll-g8ll9QY A 'debunking' of this ridiculous piece of shit. And just to laugh some more of this gigantic jerk, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ugf9OxUC4s

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:17:16 2013 No.3782602 >>3781984 But God is dead.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:33:15 2013 No.3782632 >>3782593 As if that's a bad thing...

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:34:15 2013 No.3782634 >>3782602 How can God die? The very people who parrot that phrase clearly misunderstand the concept of God.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:36:16 2013 No.3782639 >>3782545 have you actually read pensées?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:37:16 2013 No.3782643 >>3781932 Standing up with this guy and my other brothers in this thread. Jesus completely changed my life and He is continuing to change it even now.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:38:15 2013 No.3782645 >>3781911 For me it was existentialism, it's an atheistic philosophy but focus' on the the acceptance of death which helped me get out of a depression that was caused by a fear of death.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:41:15 2013 No.3782653 Rick Roderick and the Self Under Siege There's a Youtube Playlist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wetwETy4u0&list=PLA1EADE96AFC3A287

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:44:15 2013 No.3782657 >>3782634 And you misunderstand the concept of language.

Anonymous Wed May 22 15:44:16 2013 No.3782656

reminder that Christianity is the only religion/philosophy strong enough to combat the rising tides of Islam.

reminder that if you indulge in vain little modern philosophies like existentialism, humanism or the modern versions of buddhism then you're essentially on the side of Islam, a "useful idiot" as one might say, a useful idiot that is helping in the proliferation of ideologies that make men slothful and vain and hence prone to destruction from more virile philosophies like Islam.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:46:15 2013 No.3782661 >>3782140 that's a pretty dogmatic viewpoint.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 15:47:15 2013 No.3782666 >>3782657 He misunderstood the concept of concepts

Anonymous Wed May 22 16:05:16 2013 No.3782710

>>3781974
As a non-believer I actually think it's refreshing to see some people with faith who've actually thought about it around here. I can appreciate any point of view if elegant, it's the crude dimwits I dislike on all sides. No matter how atheistic I may me, I'd rather have coffee with a Jesuit than a Dawkinsist.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 16:12:16 2013 No.3782727 File: 23 KB, 289x292, meh.ro10588.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3782710

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 16:15:15 2013 No.3782736 File: 119 KB, 832x668, frodo 02.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3782666 >>3782657 >>3782602 >>3782634 If God is dead then why do people still believe in him?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 16:15:15 2013 No.3782738 >>3782634 what? I idea of God is dead. God was never alive and people realize that. I was just making a joke at first but I think you don't understand the basic premise of Nietzsche or the phrase "God is dead."

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 16:19:15 2013 No.3782746 File: 31 KB, 480x272, sephy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3782063 >MFW

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 16:21:15 2013 No.3782752 >>3782738 Do you understand Nietzsche's relation to the Greeks? What do you think he thought of Greek theater?

Anonymous Wed May 22 16:25:15 2013 No.3782762

>extricating religion and philosophy

If you want change on a personal level, Christianity (though sadly moreso behavioral aspects of its institutions than its stated basic tenets) is the one that best answers your question for the majority. That said, Absurdism is the only personal philosophy I have no qualms completely endorsing.

Anonymous Wed May 22 17:52:16 2013 No.3783006
File: 10 KB, 240x319, marcus-aurelius2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3782196
I consider myself to be a person who lives by stoicism and I've found it to change my concept of love.

I just want to jump in here and be another advocate for stoic philosophy. Go for Epictetus "The Art of Living" and "A little flesh, a little breath, and a Reason to rule all - that is myself" by Marcus Aurelius. These readings have made me pretty content with my self, existence, etc...

It's all about letting go of the things out of your control and accepting reality. All ya'll should check it

>>	Anonymous Wed May 22 17:57:16 2013 No.3783019 File: 22 KB, 109x128, 1356889007389.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3783006 and the whole "ghost in the machine, immortal soul/rotting body" dualism is really fucking cool

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