/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.3774610]

Why does /lit/ recommend the Lord of the fucking Rings? Those books are so shit. The characters are little wooden dolls, all the dialogue is plastic, fuck.

[Anonymous No.3774614]

ITT: Opinions

[Anonymous No.3774617]

>dat ass

[Anonymous No.3774622]

>>3774610
You clearly have no appreciation for lore or philology. Try thinking of it as a constructed mythology or a linguistic exercise if you can't appreciate it on a character level.

[Anonymous No.3774618]

do you feel better now having got that off your chest?

[Anonymous No.3774621]

>>3774610

Dat ass!

[Anonymous No.3774628]

>>3774618
a little

[Anonymous No.3774623]

>>3774614
No, not opinions, you fuck. There is a bad and a good when it comes to writing, you can disagree with taste but you have to have an argument. You can't just say "that's my opinion", because then you are a non-differentiating fuck. The lord of the rings is bad.

[Anonymous No.3774632]

>>3774622
Fuck you, "linguistic exercise". If I wanted that I'd call your mom. I want writing, you asshole pretend to enjoy a good book and you like shit writing.

[Anonymous No.3774636]

>>3774623
>>3774632
You seem upset.

[Anonymous No.3774638]

because there are no Platonic forms >>3774610

[Anonymous No.3774645]

>>3774638
Argue the point you ignorant fuck; literary criticism 101

[Anonymous No.3774651]

>>3774638
and Zizek says we have to go to the end of ideology
>>3774645
i did.

[Anonymous No.3774655]

It has a good, against the shadow, vibe going on. Very atmospheric.

The end is overdrawn, though.

[Anonymous No.3774656]

Just looking through the recommended reading and it's a litany of bad. Ray Bradbury? Kurt Vonnegut? Dostoyevsky? Fucking Dostoyevsky? At least pretend you guys have some fucking discernment, some fucking taste.

[Anonymous No.3774661]

>>3774655
Atmos fucking pheric, you're an asshole. "vibe", come on. How about you go read a shitty book in outside in the rain if you like a nice atmospheric vibe you shit. "The end is overdrawn" the books start with the ending and you are just sitting there waiting for it to happen for 3 books. Fuck you

[Anonymous No.3774670]

>>3774656

>Dostoevsky

Well, now I know how much your literary opinion matters.

[Anonymous No.3774671]

>>3774670
Fuck you, transliteration is a matter of preference and you just corrected my spelling on a foreign name which makes you ignorant.

[Anonymous No.3774674]

>>3774671

Oh I wasn't targeting your transliteration, but your inability to appreciate a titan of European literature.

Stick to Ayn Rand.

[Anonymous No.3774679]

Hi, new to the thread and not as angry as OP. I haven't read LOTR and would like to know why it's worth reading. I''ve had a look at some responses to the common criticisms, and they all seem to go along the lines of:

"You don't get it!"

"The world is really well developed!"

"The plot is good!"

Can someone give a better answer?

[Anonymous No.3774684]

>>3774674
I put Ayn Rand and Dostoyevsky in the same category of shit. European?

[Anonymous No.3774686]

>>3774679

If you're looking for a masterpiece of English literature, you won't find it.

It's a good book by itself, and historically important for its influence on the fantasy genre. Reading it won't change your life, but it may entertain you.

[Anonymous No.3774690]

>>3774684
notgood-politics can still make for good novels
Brothers Karamazov is a good book
and he's relevant to russian literature
being dismissive of him completely is silly

[Anonymous No.3774691]

>>3774679
It's not worth reading. This is the point I'm trying to get across here. Human interaction, right? Everything that involves two people is going to have something going on that isn't being said and with the Lord of the stupid fucking Rings it's all just surface level. It reads like a book written by a high schooler, there is no understanding of the beneath-the-surface drama that is a part of everyday life. That and elves are fucking gay

[Anonymous No.3774697]

>>3774691
obv you never seen the films.
LOTR is remembered for the world that is created not so much the characters themselves
is pretty expansive and the basis for a ton of current fantasy literature

[Anonymous No.3774698]

>>3774690
Brothers Karamazov, maybe; but Crime and Punishment is for fucks; The Double is the only thing he wrote I would say is great. You know what, even Brothers is for shit; Fuck you, Smerdyakov killing himself? The whole psychological anatomy of the story is fucked by that.

[Anonymous No.3774703]

>>3774661

>2013
>Not reading outside in the rain

Your pleb is showing.

[Anonymous No.3774704]

>>3774697
I have yet to hear a real argument here. You people are just a bunch of Lord of the Rings apologists with a heap of shitty books sitting on your shitty bookshelves. "basis for a ton" Who gives a shit? If I take a shit in public and a lot of people decide it's a good idea as well, should I be rewarded? There are no good fantasy books

[Anonymous No.3774706]

ITT: Asperger faggot who hates his parents.

[Anonymous No.3774710]

>>3774698

>doesn't even mention Notes from the Underground

[Anonymous No.3774718]

>>3774710
Yeah, OK. Notes is good. Still. Crime and Punishment is unforgiveable. That and The Idiot is alright.

[Anonymous No.3774790]

>>3774623
why so butt devastated friend?

[Anonymous No.3774801]

Inertia

[Anonymous No.3774828]

>doesn't realize Tolkien writes in the style of Epic Poetry
I bet you'd also say the same about The Epics of Gilgamesh, Beowulf and Sir Gawain.
Go back to Game of Thrones and keep your mouth shut pls.

[Anonymous No.3774832]

>>3774703
>not reading in the fridge

[Anonymous No.3774857]

>>3774828
Beat me to it, I was actually going to post the same thing.
Except for the Game of Thrones bashing. Suck a dick.

[Anonymous No.3774877]

>>3774623
Who made you the arbitrator of objective goodness?

[Anonymous No.3774911]

>>3774857
Nice, I just saved it a minute ago and there's already a reason to post it.

[Anonymous No.3774986]

>>3774671
>>3774671
this guy is actually calling people ignorant, wow.
troll harder

[Anonymous No.3774991]

>>3774704
Yes. If they see fit to reward you, you will be given a medal for your pooping prowess.

also quit getting so mad about that opinion you are so secure in the objectivity of you'll wake the children

[Anonymous No.3775010]

>>3774911
And here we go, /lit/ at its most graceful.

You should be ashamed young man.

[Anonymous No.3775145]

>>3774828
>>3774828
>>3774828
>>3774828
>>3774828

This so much.
>The characters are little wooden dolls, all the dialogue is plastic
The fact that those things are what you consider the key to a good book tells us enough.

[Anonymous No.3775177]

i tried to read the first book about 10 years ago, the first few pages was just describing a piece of land. so i just quit it, i think i might give it try again later on, but damn

[Anonymous No.3775215]

>>3774911
>comparing peotic works and non-poetic

You're an idiot.

[Anonymous No.3775362]

>>3775145
You're right, man. Characterization and dialogue are needless; what you really want are people who are good that time-consuming and not really related to actually writing skill of world creation. It's soooo hard, here's my shot at it: world with two tribes, one is constantly putting it in your ass and on is cuming on your face.

[Anonymous No.3775368]

>>3774610
>OP picture is a semi-nude female
Get back to >>>/b/ kid.

[Anonymous No.3775370]

>>3775362
>he views all fiction through the lens of the post-17th century conception of the novel!

[Anonymous No.3775374]

>>3775368
I think it's more likely that you just came from /b/ than that OP is from /b/.

[Anonymous No.3775378]

>>3775362
When two tribes go to war, a point is all you can score? Sorry. I'll take my off-topic/obscure song references elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.3775405]

>>3775370
This guy knows what he's talking about. This guy's a bro.

[Anonymous No.3775944]

look at those dirty feet

disgusting

[Anonymous No.3776117]

>>3774617
> dat photoshop ass

[Anonymous No.3776123]

>>3774679
>I haven't read LOTR and would like to know why it's worth reading.
It's a religious book. Think a fake 'New Testament' as written by a person from a world without the conception of Christianity. It's also an explicit rejection of modernism/atheism/nihilism.

If you like religious books it will blow your mind.

If you read for 'prose' and other meaningless modernist baubles, then don't bother.

[Anonymous No.3776124]

>>3775368
>semi nude
what, do you need her to take off her tattoos?

[Anonymous No.3776132]

I have the answer. Just source OP's pick and i'll reveal all.

[Anonymous No.3776142]

>“At the hill’s foot Frodo found Aragorn, standing still and silent as a tree; but in his hand was a small golden bloom of elanor, and a light was in his eyes. He was wrapped in some fair memory: and as Frodo looked at him he knew that he beheld things as they had been in this same place. For the grim years were removed from the face of Aragorn, and he seemed clothed in white, a young lord tall and fair; and he spoke words in the Elvish tongue to one whom Frodo could not see. Arwen vanimelda, namarie! He said, and then he drew a breath, and returning out of his thought he looked at Frodo and smiled.

>`Here is the heart of Elvendom on earth,’ he said, `and here my heart dwells ever, unless there be a light beyond the dark roads that we still must tread, you and I. Come with me!’ And taking Frodo’s hand in his, he left the hill of Cerin Amroth and came there never again as a living man.”

I've read a lot of books and I've never read anything more beautiful than that. Sorry you didn't like it OP.

[Anonymous No.3776144]

>>3774610

Man, I need somebody to let this thread fall. Ever since it came out I've been fapping to that pick. It aches now. I have no spunk left anymore. HELP!

[Anonymous No.3776145]

>>3776144

pick = pic

[Anonymous No.3776151]

>>3776123
>If you read for 'prose' and other meaningless modernist baubles, then don't bother.

Prose is a modernist bauble? You realize that it just means writing that isn't poetry, right? To speak of the quality of prose, is to speak of the quality of the writing. Not that LOTR has bad prose, necessarily, but the point remains.

[Anonymous No.3776159]

>>3776132
Settings>Images>Image_Search> Click the G or I on the OP. You're welcome

[Anonymous No.3776163]

>>3776159
Though, I think you'll be depressed to find it's just a solitary pic of some chick's tattoo, which has been photoshopped to make her ass look bigger.

[Anonymous No.3776168]

>>3774610
Maybe The Cat in the Hat is more up your alley. Then again, it''s dick content might a tad low for your tastes.

[Anonymous No.3776172]

>>3776151
>You realize that it just means writing that isn't poetry, right?
Indeed I do, which is why I put 'prose' in scarequotes.
>Prose is a modernist bauble?
In the illiterate sense the faggots of /lit/ use the term -- yes.

[Brian Castro !!tB1kv0pHPVj No.3776233]

>>3774610
I don't like those tattoos. They make it look like she's still wearing clothes, as though she can never again be fully nude, and it's depressing.

[Anonymous No.3776238]

It's not about the characters, it's the development of the world as a whole, you never get much into the characters minds in lotr.

[Anonymous No.3776276]

>>3776238
>you never get much into the characters minds in lotr.
Yes you do, actually.

What is it with you idiots? Why is it that can you only digest and process psychology if it comes packaged in existentialist-crisis-stream-of-consciousness-first-world-problems??

[Anonymous No.3776500]

I agree with OP

There is a reason fantasy will never be taken seriously, that reason is LOTR

It is bad mythology for smelly sperglords and childrens

I have been rused to read LOTR when I was 13 by a nerd friend

50 pages
-your book is shit man
-you should read it at least 150 pages, it gets good after!

50 pages later
-LOTR is still shit
-hang in there, read half of it, then it gets really really good you'll see

-400 pages later, it is still utter shit
-Yes, the first book si setting things up, but in the second one the plot is great!!

fuck LOTR.
By the way this friend is now still playing vidya intensivly at past 25

[Anonymous No.3776526]

>>3774610
look at her pudgy little piggy frame and the awful scrawlings over her. Only redeeming quality is the shape of her arse which is so obviously shopped to hide the cellulose

[Anonymous No.3776529]

I think that a lot of people cling to LOTR because it is one of the only normalfag-friendly fantasy setting. Normals were forced to read it in school, and since most normals have not read anything that was not mandatory, they list it as their favoriye book alongside Gatsby and Mockingbird.

You can point to all of the fantasy Tolkein has influenced, sure. But I'd prefer something set in Hyboria to anything full of elves, dwarves and orcs.

[Anonymous No.3776539]

>>3776529
they FORCE you to read this gargantuous low-brow shit at school??? seriously? how pleb education had become? How fucking wrong is that?

I mean if the goal is to "forging an habit of reading with popular books" or "introducing pleasure in reading to young people" they might as well forcing you to read something actually enjoyable for teens, like Harry Potter or that Katniss thing

[Anonymous No.3776543]

>>3776276
muh postmodernism

[Anonymous No.3776544]

>>3776529
who read LOTR in school? seriously
was long as fuck, how can a teacher spend so much time on that
seriously impossible
i call bullshit
what country, what level of retardation, etc?

[Anonymous No.3776547]

>‘Then tell us what you will, and time allows!’ said Gimli. ‘Come, Gandalf, tell us how you fared with the Balrog!’ ‘Name him not!’ said Gandalf, and for a moment it seemed that a cloud of pain passed over his face, and he sat silent, looking old as death. ‘Long time I fell,’ he said at last, slowly, as if thinking back with difficulty. ‘Long I fell, and he fell with me. His fire was about me. I was burned. Then we plunged into the deep water and all was dark. Cold it was as the tide of death: almost it froze my heart.’ ‘Deep is the abyss that is spanned by Durin’s Bridge, and none has measured it,’ said Gimli. ‘Yet it has a bottom, beyond light and knowledge,’ said Gandalf. ‘Thither I came at last, to the uttermost foundations of stone. He was with me still. His fire was quenched, but now he was a thing of slime, stronger than a strangling snake. ‘We fought far under the living earth, where time is not counted. Ever he clutched me, and ever I hewed him, till at last he fled into dark tunnels. They were not made by Durin’s folk, Gimli son of Glóin. Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day. In that despair my enemy was my only hope, and I pursued him, clutching at his heel. Thus he brought me back at last to the secret ways of Khazad-dûm: too well he knew them all. Ever up now we went, until we came to the Endless Stair.’

[Anonymous No.3776549]

>>3776547
>‘Long has that been lost,’ said Gimli. ‘Many have said that it was never made save in legend, but others say that it was destroyed.’ ‘It was made, and it had not been destroyed,’ said Gandalf. ‘From the lowest dungeon to the highest peak it climbed, ascending in unbroken spiral in many thousand steps, until it issued at last in Durin’s Tower carved in the living rock of Zirakzigil, the pinnacle of the Silvertine. ‘There upon Celebdil was a lonely window in the snow, and before it lay a narrow space, a dizzy eyrie above the mists of the world. The sun shone fiercely there, but all below was wrapped in cloud. Out he sprang, and even as I came behind, he burst into new flame. There was none to see, or perhaps in after ages songs would still be sung of the Battle of the Peak.’ Suddenly Gandalf laughed. ‘But what would they say in song? Those that looked up from afar thought that the mountain was crowned with storm. Thunder they heard, and lightning, they said, smote upon Celebdil, and leaped back broken into tongues of fire. Is not that enough? A great smoke rose about us, vapour and steam. Ice fell like rain. I threw down my enemy, and he fell from the high place and broke the mountain-side where he smote it in his ruin.'

[Anonymous No.3776553]

>>3776500
LOTR is the reason fantasy exists in the first place.

I don't like it but I can't deny this.

[Anonymous No.3776557]

>>3776547
>>3776549
If this is what LOTR was like, I'd read it.

As it is, these interesting parts are drowned in descriptions of trees and food.

[Anonymous No.3776561]

>>3776142
>>3776547
>>3776549
These quotes show the heart of LOTR perfectly. Characters in LOTR are just devices to tell you about this setting and history Tolkien came up with.

And it's great if you want to read about some imaginary world. And it is a very detailed world too. But personally I prefer to read stories about characters with individual thoughts, beliefs and motives.

[Anonymous No.3776563]

>>3776557
So you didn't like it, but for me, much of it held the same energy and immediacy that the above passages do.

If you don't like LoTR, that's fine, I don't mind, but don't you think it's a bit much to claim that they are "shit". By most standards they're well written, and for the vast majority of those who read them, quite interesting.

[Anonymous No.3776566]

>LOTR is the reason fantasy exists in the first place.

Nope. Fantasy was invented by pulp writers as a way to write fiction set in antiquity without having to do historical research.

[Anonymous No.3776565]

>>3774610
people forget the LoTR series is a huge tribute to western culture, mythology and history. Give LoTR to an alien culture and it outlines ourselves.

[Anonymous No.3776570]

>>3776561
There is certainly a degree of that, but I have heard that one of the tests to see whether characters have personality is that if you take away the names, they are still distinct. I think LoTR accomplishes this. Perhaps not enough for you, and certainly it is the type of book that is read for the world/atmosphere more than it is learning about the characters internal processes.

[Anonymous No.3776573]

>>3776566
first fantasy novels are waaaaay prepulp. and Howard and De Camp and Lieber were gluttons for research. Brand and Renault and Brackett too.

[Anonymous No.3776577]

Read C.S. Lewis's Space Trilogy OP.

[Anonymous No.3776576]

>>3776566


Pleb.

[Anonymous No.3776619]

>>3776553

LOTR ushered in the worst kind of fantasy that has plagued the genre ever since.

[Anonymous No.3776622]

>>3776619
>implying it's Tolkien's fault he wrote such a captivating story that every moron copies it

[Anonymous No.3776655]

I view fantasy as being an attempt to detail a journey and leaving things like dialogue to the imagination to an extent. Personally I don't go to fantasy for dialogue

[Anonymous No.3776678]

don't mind me, just bursting your bubble

[Anonymous No.3776680]

>>3776678
Too late, already masturbated.
Better next time chump.

[Anonymous No.3776702]

>>3776678
ugly as fuck

[Anonymous No.3776703]

>>3776678
that looks much better anyway

[Anonymous No.3776704]

>>3776678
she was already pig disgusto

[Anonymous No.3776711]

>>3776678
It took me three double-takes to notice the difference. I am definitely not an ass-guy. I'm also a faggot.

[Anonymous No.3776717]

>>3776678
>renting
>>3774610
>own

[Anonymous No.3776741]

>>3776678
You actually recognized the picture with the slight alteration to the ass? You need a girlfriend anon.

[Anonymous No.3776765]

>>3776741
slight alteration? you are kidding yourself guy. i am an assman for sure, but the first thing you notice when you look at OP pic is GODDAMN DAT ASS. other pic? not so much.