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/lit/ - Literature

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3721108 No.3721108[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Friends I need your help, Can someone recommend me any philosophy book that treat topics like
"living now, the moment",
like some kind of "carpe diem" "memento mori", that stuff

>Not motivational bullshit.

>> No.3721130

>>3721108
You have a contradiction in your terms, mate.

>> No.3721136

>>3721130
Explain

>> No.3721144

I remember when I used to think Pitt was ripped in "Fight Club".

/fit/ has changed me so

>> No.3721149

>>3721144
Nobody on /fit/ is as ripped as Brad Pitt in Fight Club
They are all fats struggling to lose weight

>> No.3721161

>>3721149
Not true. Even I have more muscle mass than Pitt in "Fight Club".

True, a lot of /fit/izens are DYEL or just plain fat, but there are quite a few ripped dudes on it.

>> No.3721162

>>3721130
not really

>> No.3721160

>>3721144
he's skinny-ripped in Fight Club. The sexiest kind of ripped.

Anyways, Updike's Rabbit touches the theme in a non-motivational way, but make sure to read a fragment first. You may not like the style or the story even

>> No.3721166

>>3721160
Thanks, I´ll check it

>> No.3721170

>>3721136
memento mori is meant as a reminder of death, or better, the unreality of this life in comparison to the next.
You're supposed to keep death in mind as a relief from your chastity and suffering--it's not a rallying cry for living life to the fullest.

>> No.3721171

>>3721162
yes, really.

>> No.3721175

>>3721171
maybe explain, faggot?

How is seizing the day and bearing in mind that you will die - contradicting terms?

Are you mentally ill?

>> No.3721183

>>3721175
I'm the guy who posted the "contradiction in your terms". I was talking about

>Can someone recommend me any philosophy book that treat topics like
"living now, the moment",
like some kind of "carpe diem" "memento mori", that stuff

and

>Not motivational bullshit.

>> No.3721182

>>3721170
Untrue.

Memento mori, along with Hominem Te Esse, was a sentence supposedly told to victorious roman emperors, to keep them humble.

>> No.3721188

>>3721182
That reinforces my description. It doesn't make it "Untrue."

>> No.3721191

>>3721161
>Even I have more muscle mas
That's called fat, dude

>> No.3721193

>>3721170
Memento mori, doesnt mean the unreality of this life in comparison to the next, it ONLY means "remember that you will die".
and that doesnt mean necessarily a contradiction with Carpe Diem, maybe 2 separate ideas but not a contradiction

>> No.3721194

>>3721191
Hurr hurr hurr funny stuff

>> No.3721197

>>3721182
Yep. Its literal translation is something like "remember your mortality"

>> No.3721199

>>3721175
look at them more critically:
one is reflecting on death as an end to this life in preparation for death, and the other is a spirit of living in light of the finite nature of life.

>> No.3721201

>>3721197
>literal translations
>latin

>> No.3721206

>>3721193
oh hey hold on let me consider your literal translation of a latin phrase that has been used for 2000 years because of the mystical symbolism imbedded at its core

>> No.3721211

>>3721183
No, it isn´t a contradiction, the fight club portray some of that stuff and its not a motivational film.

>> No.3721215

>>3721211
empiricist

>> No.3721219

>>3721215
Not really, quote from that piece of art: "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."
A motivational shit will tell you: "You can do anything if you have the will and good intentions"

>> No.3721223

>>3721197
Then in that sense it can also be a motivation to live life to the fullest, depending on your outlook of it.

>> No.3721227

>>3721219
thanks for creating your definition for "motivational shit" because I'm sure a lot of writers and artists out there have been wringing their hands waiting for you to finally tell them how to motivate people.

>> No.3721229
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3721229

>>3721201
>being on /lit/
>not knowing latin

you're missing out bro

>> No.3721230

>>3721211
Fight Club is a motivational film for edgy teenagers. Get over it.

>> No.3721232

>>3721223
but that isn't the meaning of the phrase--it's the meaning of the words! C'mon /lit/ I know that you're somewhat understanding of an idiom.
Don't fucking fall for what these idiots who google searched "momenti mori"

>> No.3721237

>>3721229
I'm sure we're comrades

>> No.3721241

>>3721230
>Fight Club is a motivational film for edgy teenagers.

Not even for edgy teenagers. Edgy teenagers are too busy on their third round of probation and Electronic Monitoring to give a shit about some gay man's views of Capitalist America. No, Palahnuik is for cloistered, privileged, suburban teens who've never known a day of hardship and are totally dead to and bored with the world. They're student forms of Ed Norton at his job, basically.

>> No.3721239

>>3721223
Memento mori was a phrase commonly used during in Medieval ages, it means 'Remember to die' with other words: watch out how you live or you'll end up in hell.

>> No.3721243

>>3721241
>cloistered, privileged, suburban teens
CHECK IT PEOPLE

>> No.3721248
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3721248

>>3721241

>tfw you fell into the fight club trap

>> No.3721249

>>3721227
Do you really consider "artist" people who write this:
www.amazon.com/Motivation-Quotes-Affirmations-Immediate-Motivational/dp/1450550029/ref=cm_lmf_tit_1
Really?

>> No.3721250

>>3721188
No, your definition was a very christian one, while the original meaning and understanding of "memento mori" was pagan and didn't imply afterlife.

Christianism understands this quote as "let's keep calm and not fuck girls or drink alcohol because we'll die sooner or later", while the original meaning was "do not forget that you are human like everyone and that you will die someday".

>> No.3721251

>>3721223
>depending on your outlook
there's no room for interpretations when using idiomatic phrases with established linage and meaning.

>> No.3721253

>>3721230
Ok, if fight club is that, thats why Im requesting for philosophical texts.

>> No.3721256

>>3721250
By the way, the original understanding of this quote is consequent with the god/mortal paradox found in most ancient greek myths.

>> No.3721259

>>3721250
I'm not ignoring the change in usage, but the meaning and implicit textures of the phrase have remained true.

Why keep in mind that you're going to die? To reinforce the checks of mortality in the face of the eternal, dude. I get it, I know how "momento mori" has been used--but it hasn't changed in meaning and it will not change now just because some dumbasses on a webforum think they're experts.

>> No.3721264

>>3721232
I understand what an idiom is, but was the idiomatic meaning of it during Roman times that of a simple reminder that everyone dies? As in, nothing to do with hedonism?

Even if it is, it can still be reinterpreted.

>> No.3721266

>>3721249
you don't exist because I don't see you

>> No.3721262

>>3721250
Finally!!! someone gets it.

>> No.3721270

>>3721259
YOu want to keep in mind that you will die, because if you dont do it the hybris will conduce to your death, thats why it was told by a servant.

>> No.3721271

>>3721264
Throughout it's usage the idiomatic meaning has been the suppression of passions and pride in light of death. This doesn't change with regard to who wields the pen.

>> No.3721276

>>3721270
is that art?

>> No.3721278

>>3721264
why reinterpret a latin phrase with established meaning? the point of using the phrase is to express highly complex thoughts behind the words, so using them reinterpreted would just be egotistical.

>> No.3721281

>>3721251
Yes there is. In fact I just reinterpreted it right now.

Wanna fite about it m8?

>> No.3721283

>>3721281
reinterpret a proof

>> No.3721288

>>3721278
>why

why not? I'm not disregarding the original manner of usage or its connotations, just expanding on possibility of meaning.

>> No.3721292

>>3721283
>proof

There's still value in subjective interpretation. Who says the meaning has to be fixed?

>> No.3721293

The "memento mori" isn't used to remind people of their own mortality but rather to remind them of the dangers of hubris. Of course some people interpret the "memento mori" without taking into account the historical context and use it as a synonym to "Carpe Diem". A better phrase would be "Nunc Est Bibendum" - it is now that we drink.

>> No.3721295

>>3721288
The reason why not is because the phrase exists as a tomb for meaning not as a trashtruck.

>> No.3721300

>>3721292
using latin in a literary discourse community typically requires precision and not subjective interpretation.

>> No.3721305

>>3721295
>trashtruck

Reinterpreting is not akin to a trashtruck.

I'm not saying I would ever use 'memento mori' to the same effect as 'carpe diem', due to the fact that it has an accepted meaning, but it can still be reinterpreted if so desired.

It may seem erroneous and ironic, yes, but the spirit is still the same.

>> No.3721306

>>3721300
Yes, typically, it does.

>> No.3721310

>>3721293
You are right.

OP here, now I realized one book that maybe deals with this stuff: Thus Spoke Zarathustra. Am i right?

>> No.3721366

>>3721310
>>3721310
Yes Nietzche wrote something about thaat.

>> No.3721368

All you need is a strong dose of nihilism

>> No.3721377

si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses

>> No.3721387
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3721387

>>3721108
Have you read Kierkegaard?

>> No.3721416

>>3721387
No, any recommendation.

>> No.3721447

>>3721416
Baudrillard

>> No.3723402

>>3721259
>I'm not ignoring the change in usage
You just may be
>Why keep in mind that you're going to die?
In this context, because you don't get another shot at doing things, hence, make the most of living
>but it hasn't changed in meaning
looks like, cursorily, differeny cultures applied it in different ways. I know romantic poets used it in a unique way and I have seen some of the 'vanitas' type images of cadavers approached vain little girls staring into mirrors, more along the lines of your classic idiomatic claim
>it will not change now
it will, especially if the aetiology is acknowledged. In face there is an interesting site with very old phrases and idioms that goes into the etymology, and notes for some that meaning has been entirely inverted. I will find it if I can

>> No.3723443

>>3721108
I'll tell you what, it isn't Fight Club, and what a piece of shit book that is. Batshit retarded. Easy to read writing style though, so I'll finish it.

Dunnow about the carpe diem stuff. I'm more the type that lives in yesterday, just reminiscing. I enjoyed Invisible Cities for living in those thought free moments. Again, not an answer for your question.

Don't think people who live in the moment read much books. You can try the original carpe diem authors, and read some epicunarism and stoicism philosophies. I rather enjoyed Marcus Aurelius work.

>> No.3725445

>>3723402
It will be great if you can find that site.

>> No.3727701
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3727701

Certainly "in the moment" but not very "seize the day"

>> No.3727750

To the Virgins, to Make Much of Time - Robert Herrick

Gather ye rosebuds while ye may,
Old Time is still a-flying;
And this same flower that smiles today
Tomorrow will be dying.

The glorious lamp of heaven, the sun,
The higher he's a-getting,
The sooner will his race be run,
And nearer he's to setting.

That age is best which is the first,
When youth and blood are warmer;
But being spent, the worse, and worst
Times still succeed the former.

Then be not coy, but use your time,
And while ye may, go marry;
For having lost but once your prime,
You may forever tarry.

>> No.3727792

>>3721241
I think the film gets a load of unwarranted all-or-nothing criticism. I don't know why the moderate conclusion of not wasting your time/money on things that aren't necessarily going to make you happier is edgy at all.

>> No.3727800

>>3727750
shit that was awesome

>> No.3727861

>>3721305
This.

Also, doesn't this issue really boil down to the arbitrariness of language? Meanings and expressions have the connotations we give them and change over time. At one time, Memento Mori might just have meant >>3721170 but I've seen more and more people comparing it to "carpe diem" (which, by the way, also seem to be taking a twist), indicating that the values we give the expression might be changing. Also, the importance of its historical value is only highlighted in certain sociolects.

>> No.3729569

>>3729565
by which I mean:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/phrases-and-sayings-list.html

>> No.3729565

>>3725445
There's a few, but this could be the one I was thinking of

>> No.3729610

Li Po, Tu Fu, and the Rubber Yacht of Homer Cayenne. thank me later.

>> No.3729694

>>3721108

>ctrl-f
>"Camus"
>0 results

I am ashamed at you, /lit/

Read some Camus, OP

Be the Absurd Hero! Sorta motivational, but also staggeringly depressing at first.