Proust in the Houst

[Anonymous No.3706122]

What English translation of In Search of Lost Time would you say is the best?

I plan to try to read it soon and I want the best in terms of both capturing the beauty of the original language (authenticity) in my own and in terms of readability.

[Anonymous No.3706124]

The original Moncrieff translates are world-renowned.

[Anonymous No.3706132]

interested in this... reading the new penguin translation right now but it's the only version I've read so I can't say too much... I will say that the book is beautiful and electric in this translation but I can't say if it would be more or less so in another...

[Anonymous No.3706142]

the Moncrieff translation is pretty much the high watermark in all of English translation. Though I know Lydia Davis also had a go, and I very much enjoyed her take on Flaubert. So you probably can't go wrong with either of them, really.

[Anonymous No.3706140]

just read it in its original language, OP

step your game up

[Anonymous No.3706520]

What of the Kilmartin revision and the Enright revision of the Kilmartin revision? How are those, by themselves and compared to the original Moncrieff translation?

[Anonymous No.3706539]

>>3706140
This. I might understand if it was a non-romanic language, but it's french. Come the fuck on OP, do a little work for once and read it in it's original language. As a comparative literature major, I can tell you with authority that despite the brilliance of Moncrieff's translation, A LOT is still lost.

[Anonymous No.3706550]

>>3706140
>>3706539
While I understand that a lot is lost in translation, I'm not looking into learning French anytime soon. I'm already trying to learn German, and my language interest is thus tied up and being burnt out. I just want to know about the English translations, in this thread.

[Charis !!+8V9K1A5x6A No.3706553]

If you are interested in literature, the least you can do is learn French, English and German.

[Anonymous No.3706556]

>>3706550
You could learn French well enough to read Proust in under two years, even with only moderate study each day.

[Anonymous No.3706561]

>>3706553
Tripfag, I really get you, mang. But that's not what I'm after. I just wanna know how I can best and most authentically enjoy In Search of Lost Time in my native tongue.

>>3706520
Still needs an answer, if anyone knows.

[Anonymous No.3706626]

>>3706561
>authentically

Nope.

[Anonymous No.3706801]

>>3706553
>French, English and German.
Ditch the dead pointless languages, learn Russian and Chinese instead.

[Anonymous No.3706804]

>>3706801
>french and german
>dead pointless languages

Ah! Ha! Ha! Ha!

[Anonymous No.3706813]

>>3706804
>french and german
>dead pointless languages

They are. Just deal with it and accept it: _nothing_ of value will ever, ever be written in French or German again.

Smart people in France and Germany learn English as a native language, and the black African French-speaking tribes aren't going to be writing the next modernist masterpiece. (They're going to be chopping heads and raping womenz, allah-u-akbar.)

[Anonymous No.3706831]

>>3706813

>_nothing_ of value will ever, ever be written in French or German again

why is it that every naive retard thinks that trying to feign authority on /lit/ means dealing in lofty absolutist bullshit?

you come off sounding even more ignorant than you'd ever want and you're too much of a fool to see it. well done.

[Anonymous No.3706851]

>>3706831
Do you have an intelligent response, or any you going to continue sticking fingers in your ears and calling me names?

French and German people are switching to English as fast as they can. This is a fact. No serious author is going to even consider writing in French or German -- at worst they're going to translate to English from the start, at best they're going to write in English in the first place. This is also a fact.

[Anonymous No.3706876]

>>3706520
Lydia Davis is best if you only intend to read Swann's Way. If you plan to read the whole thing, go for the Kilmartin and Enright update of Moncrieff.

[Anonymous No.3706880]

>>3706851
I'm not sure about German, but as for French being abandoned I can tell you that you're completely wrong.
I live in France, went to high school here for two years and am now studying at university. While it's true that the French language has a shadow of its former influence, it is not being abandoned. In fact, the opposite may be the case. With a language (somewhat) under threat from English, there are concerted efforts to preserve and strengthen French.
This is being done on a governmental level: 40% or more of all songs on the radio must be in French, by the Académie Française: creating French equivalents to new English words and promoting the language worldwide, though this isn't always effective, and on a general level: French people are proud of their language and often have a dim view of English.

[Anonymous No.3706910]

>>3706880
>I'm not sure about German, but as for French being abandoned I can tell you that you're completely wrong.
Please lrn2linguistics.
>I live in France, went to high school here for two years and am now studying at university.
I did all of that too; you're not an expert on French because you studied at a French university.
>While it's true that the French language has a shadow of its former influence, it is not being abandoned. In fact, the opposite may be the case. With a language (somewhat) under threat from English, there are concerted efforts to preserve and strengthen French.
You _cannot_ preserve a language on purpose.
>This is being done on a governmental level: 40% or more of all songs on the radio must be in French, by the Académie Française: creating French equivalents to new English words and promoting the language worldwide,
That's not how it works. Languages are social constructs, you cannot keep a language alive by government edict.
> though this isn't always effective, and on a general level: French people are proud of their language and often have a dim view of English.
It doesn't matter if French people are 'proud' of their language or not. There is only one way to keep a language alive: by learning it and speaking it instead of some other language. French is dying as long as people in France are learning English instead of French.

You lost a couple of big wars and were conquered by the Anglo hegemony, and your language is quickly dying. This sort of thing is common in history, it has happened before and will happen again. (Just remember the Roman Empire or the Ottoman Empire. I'm sure the Anatolian Greeks were very, very proud of their language in 1453; I'm sure you understand how much good that 'pride' did them in the end.)

[Anonymous No.3706927]

>>3706801
>ditch dead languages
>learn russian instead
allofmywat.jpeg

[Anonymous No.3706933]

>>3706813
lol
look at this ignorant faggot

[Anonymous No.3706939]

>>3706927
You seem to misunderstand what 'dying language' means.

A 'dying language' is when parents stop teaching it to kids because it's no longer profitable or advantageous enough.

A 'living language' is a language that is spoken by monolingual speakers. Being a 'living language' is not about international prestige or some other claptrap like that; some of the most 'living' languages in the world are those spoken by illiterate tribesmen in loincloths.

So yes, Russian is a much, much more 'living' language than any European language.

(Yes, ironically, if you want to keep your language alive, then having a shitty education system helps. See America as an example.)

[Anonymous No.3706942]

>>3706910
>French is dying as long as people in France are learning English instead of French.
french people are learning english (a second language) as it is accepted pretty much everywhere in the world
french, having learned english, are now going to stop speaking their mother-language
therefore, the french language is dying

ahhaha wow
what the fuck how are you this retarded
as long as there will be france, there will be the french language
its that simple you generalizing pseudo-intellectual swine

[Anonymous No.3706954]

>>3706942
> french people are learning english (a second language) as it is accepted pretty much everywhere in the world
No, not everywhere in the world. See Russia or China or Latin America or Japan.
> french, having learned english, are now going to stop speaking their mother-language
Yes, they are. Not today or next year, but in three or four generations -- yes, definitely.
> therefore, the french language is dying
Yes, that's exactly how it works. Google "language replacement".

>ahhaha wow
> what the fuck how are you this retarded
> as long as there will be france, there will be the french language
No, a France that speaks English will still be France.
> its that simple you generalizing pseudo-intellectual swine
That said, yes, I'm oversimplifying. French isn't going to die out because it's a living language in Africa.

However, consider the future where the 'official' and 'proper' French is the French dialect spoken in Africa, where 90% of French speakers are African. Continental France might follow suit and keep their African language, but don't expect masterpieces of literature to be written in an African language.

[Anonymous No.3706988]

>>3706851
>No serious author is going to even consider writing in French or German

You are anglophone, right? I'm German and although I personally adhere exactly to the trend you have described, it's not something that is generally true for German culture. The vast majority of important philosophy and literature is still written in German (although I wouldn't necessarily call anything contemporary 'important'). I write on issues of political philosophy in English, but that is probably because I come from an English department. If you want to move in any kind of intellectual circle in Germany you have to think in German at least some of the time.

[Anonymous No.3707018]

>>3706988
>You are anglophone, right?
Not at all.
>I'm German and although I personally adhere exactly to the trend you have described, it's not something that is generally true for German culture. The vast majority of important philosophy and literature is still written in German (although I wouldn't necessarily call anything contemporary 'important').
For the moment, yes. But that isn't important; the only thing that's important is what people in Germany will be speaking in 3, 4 or 5 generations.
>I write on issues of political philosophy in English, but that is probably because I come from an English department. If you want to move in any kind of intellectual circle in Germany you have to think in German at least some of the time.
Yes, like I said -- for the moment. English is becoming the native EU language very quickly, though.

[Anonymous No.3707043]

>>3706550
Then wait until you've learned German and have time to learn French. You have your whole life to read it, why read it in translation?

[Anonymous No.3707052]

I'm not sure how soon you were planning on reading it, but there's supposed to be an excellent edition coming out as an anniversary thing. Basically further revision of the text, extra footnotes, etc.

[Anonymous No.3707323]

>>3706539
Like what?

[Anonymous No.3707335]

how do you pronounce this guys name? I have a feelin debotton did it wrong in his big think vid

praust, no?

[Anonymous No.3707342]

>>3707052
You got me interested. Can you refer to a link or something?

[Anonymous No.3707354]

>>3707335
It's basically "Proost". Here's a video with the correct pronunciation in it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhoqSH-VPaQ<wbr>

[Anonymous No.3707355]

>>3707335
>>3707354

Not posting this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwAOc4g3K-g

[Anonymous No.3707360]

>>3707355
Was searching for a french video in order to have the most authentic pronunciation. Still, thanks for reminding me of this, I love myself some Monty Python from time to time.

[Anonymous No.3707504]

>>3706813
>choosing to learn a language based on broad and extremely generalizing applications for its future use
Wow, what an idiot you are. Most important literature from the 18th-20th century is written in French and German.

[Anonymous No.3707673]

>>3707504
>Wow, what an idiot you are.
Maybe I just like modern literature more. I guess that makes me an 'idiot', hue hue.
>Most important literature from the 18th-20th century is written in French and German.
18-19th, you mean. There is literally (yes, literally) nothing worthwhile written in French in German after 1930.

[Anonymous No.3707711]

>>3707673
>There is literally (yes, literally) nothing worthwhile written in French in German after 1930

Ah but you forget Of Grammatology

[Anonymous No.3707765]

>>3707673
Bernhard? Grass? Dürrenmatt? Musil? Böll? Celan? Brecht? Jelinek? Bachmann? The entire Frankfurt School? I mean, just to name a few in German...

inb4 'durr they're all shit'

[Anonymous No.3707786]

>>3707673
You have made your way into the top 10 dumbest posts I have ever seen.

[Anonymous No.3707810]

people who say crap's lost in translation are usually people who only know one language. the idioms and structure of French and English aren't that different to allow for much meaning to be lost compared to Chinese to Arabic or something. German as well. But sure if you want some e-peen, go ahead and read it in the original.

[Anonymous No.3707922]

>>3707810
>not being an audodidact polyglot polymath who knows at least 10 different languages

[Anonymous No.3707928]

>>3707810
A lot of Proust is lost in translation though. It's still good in translation, but some subtleties and techniques get lost.

[Anonymous No.3707930]

>>3706939
Not really.
Russian demographics is in a pitiful state. If nothing changes, the whole country is bound to disappear in 200 years or so. Please get your facts straight.

[Anonymous No.3707943]

>>3707673
Generalising to the extrem everything you say doesn't make you less ignorant, rather you will you sound like an uncultured idiot.
Céline & Musil both wrote world classics after 1930, for one.

[Anonymous No.3708328]

>>3706876
Thank you, good sir or madam. I'll go for that then.
>>3707043
Because I want to. And am unduly biased towards English, not for any superiority I think it holds, the original language will always be superior for any given work, but because I just like English.

OP(who is a faggot) is done here. This thread can now just be "Translation of Proust" "Polyglot Circlejerk" and "Arguing about the Merits of Modern French and German Works" thread, I guess. Not like I had much say in the first place.

Thank you to the people who helped, both those who suggested the best translations and those who suggested I learn French, which I think I may more likely do in the future, after this. And peace out!

[Anonymous No.3708399]

>>3706520
>>3706122
>>3706124
>>3706520
>>3706142

The Modern Library Edition is the best translation available.

It's root translation is done by C.K. Scott Moncrieff, one of the most celebrated and best translators of any language ever.

That base translation is then revised by Terence Kilmartin

And both of those are combined and revised by D.J. Enright

It's perfect. The books are also annotated and include synopses in the back.

/thread

[Anonymous No.3708500]

>>3707018

We are all Anglophones now.

[Anonymous No.3708522]

>>3706122
>english translations of Proust
>for quite a while I went to bed soon

[Anonymous No.3708531]

OP asks a simple fucking question and you mouth-breathers go on about Russian demographics, imaginary battles between languages and meaningless shit-post arguments.

Fuck you assholes. /lit/ is fucking done. Yes, I'm fucking mad. I used to get good recommendations here but I cannot be assed to sift through 4chan's diarrhea any longer. Kill yourselves.

[Anonymous No.3708549]

>>3708531
>OP asks a question
>discussion branches out
>OP eventually gets question answered
>(moderately) interesting discussion had
>everyone wins

the meaningless shit-posting has and always shall be here.
people are bound to go offtopic.
it is the nature of the beast.

go to goodreads bud.