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/lit/ - Literature

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3685153 No.3685153 [Reply] [Original]

Where should I start in my philosophical endeavours.

>> No.3685155

http://historyofphilosophy.net/

>> No.3685169
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3685169

>>3685153

>> No.3685170
File: 130 KB, 200x339, 200px-SophiesWorld (1).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3685170

Sophie's World. If you don't care about the story, you can just read the essays in it. From there, maybe Russell's History of Western Philosophy (keeping in mind he makes no attempts at objectivity), and/or Plato's Apology, and then just whatever interests you.

>> No.3685175

>>3685170
Never Russell.

>> No.3685182

>>3685175
Nietzsche fan, I take it?

>> No.3685188

>>3685153

Go and buy or torrent all 11 volumes of Father Coppleston. Better detail and less bias than Berty.

>> No.3685198

>>3685182
Yes.

>> No.3685208

>>3685175
Third-[?]-ing History of Western Philosophy.

No one ever talks about how snarky and hilarious philosophers are. Especially in modern metaphysics essays, they get really personal in their ten-page-long preamble on their own personal definition of 'reality'.

You can try Wittgenstein, but don't.

>> No.3685209
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3685209

If you're looking for meaning in life, you won't find it.
If you're looking for wisdom, you won't find it.

What you'll find is a collection party tricks you can display at social outlets. Study history, or something.

>> No.3685228

Start with the Greeks
>but which Greek?
Plato

/thread

>> No.3685232

>>3685209
What you will find is interesting new ways of looking at things. Never found philosophy that useful or relevant in casual conversation, but the high of philosophical revelation is hard to beat. History is interesting too, though.

>> No.3685233

Don't start with the Greeks unless you're specifically interested in classics.

Start with something you know you're interested in, a specific field or question, and go from there.

>> No.3685239

>>3685228
No.
Plato would be nothing without Parmenides, Pythagoras and Socrates
Start with the goddamn Pre-Socratics

>> No.3685240
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3685240

>>3685209
True, but I don't think people should ignore philosophy just because it doesn't have absolute truth. Even correct doubting and a better way of questioning is useful in the long run. Besides, if nothing else it is interesting and, like you said, something to talk about over a beer if you're not interested in sports or whatever.

Also, you have to admit it is a bit more than just "Meak ur own meaning god is daed lel".

>> No.3685241

>>3685239
I don't think he's going to be reading much Socrates.

>> No.3685248

>>3685241
Where exactly did you see me write "Read Socrates"?
Pre-Socratics =/= Socrates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension

>> No.3685250

>>3685241
To be fair he said
>PRE-Socratics.

But yeah, why not, start from the beginning. It all informed what came later.

>> No.3685259

>>3685248
>Plato would be nothing without Parmenides, Pythagoras and Socrates

Don't think he's going to be reading much Pythagoras, either.

>> No.3685263

>>3685259
Not the smartest bloke around here, I presume?

>> No.3685266

Is there any place where I can READ the greeks ones? http://historyofphilosophy.net/ is podcast, and English is not my first language, so I'm better at reading than writing/listening.

>> No.3685267

>>3685250
Nobody who isn't actually autistic, starts reading fragments from the Presocratics and works their way through the works of Plato, and into the works of Aristotle, and so on. Reading some of Plato's more noted works, and then some of Aristotle's, and so on; would be more reasonable if you detest secondary literature.

>> No.3685269

Comprehensive reading lists. Here you go.

http://www.phil.cam.ac.uk/pros_students/reading_list_prosp_ugrads.pdf
http://www.phil.cam.ac.uk/u_grads/reading_lists/reading_lists_a.html
http://www.phil.cam.ac.uk/u_grads/reading_lists/reading_lists_b.html
http://www.phil.cam.ac.uk/u_grads/reading_lists/reading_lists_2.html

>> No.3685274
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3685274

Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand challenges your whole philosophy of life and economics. A must read.

>> No.3685275

>>3685263
Pythagoras didn't write anything.

>> No.3685282
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3685282

>>3685267
What a retard.

>>3685266 -> >>3685188
The first volume (pic related) is dedicated exclusively to the Greeks

>> No.3685283

>>3685275
I'm sure he wrote something, he was an educated man, a philosopher and mathematician, head of a cult of some sort that seems to have venerated numbers. I highly doubt that he never wrote anything.

>> No.3685286

>>3685282
Also he doesn't translate his quotes so unless OP happens to know ancient Greek he's going to run into problems. Also if you think recommending some massive work like that to someone just starting off is a good idea, you're completely retarded. OP look at the first pdf here >>3685269

>> No.3685285

>>3685283
If he did, we don't have it.

>> No.3685288

>>3685285
Of course not, but it seems absurd to think he never wrote anything just because his parchments didn't survive for 2500 years

>> No.3685300

>>3685275
...And you're still a retard of the highest caliber.

Nowhere in my post did I say that the works of Pythagoras have been preserved; it was a mere indication of studying the goddamn Pre-Socratics through the work of Plato, Aristotle's Metaphysics, Diogenes Laertius and any other, modern secondary literature, you fucking dunce.

>> No.3685301

>>3685267
>I'm going to call not being a lazy fuck autism.

I detest you faggots.

>> No.3685313

>>3685288
In any case, if you want to know about Pythagoras, you have to turn to people who wrote about him. Like Plato. Plato is obviously far from an ideal source here, but the point remains.

We say philosophy begins with the Presocratics, but in a significant sense, it also begins with Plato.

>> No.3685322

>>3685300
You're so angry. In reference to a comment someone else made in this thread, perhaps we should be telling people interested in philosophy to learn Greek first.

>> No.3685323

>>3685313
Bah, the number of times that philosophy has begun, ended and begun again wholly new are staggering.

>> No.3685326

>>3685286
>Is there any place where I can READ the greeks ones?
Did you not read what OP wants?
History is history. Coppleston's is one of the comprehensive ones out there.

>Also he doesn't translate his quotes so unless OP happens to know ancient Greek he's going to run into problems.
No, it's not useless, moron; you can check the quotes (there are few) online.

>Also if you think recommending some massive work like that to someone just starting off is a good idea
You're the retard here. Lol at posting a university course reading list to a complete newbie, and then calling Coppleston's work "massive"

>> No.3685332

>>3685326
>You're the retard here. Lol at posting a university course reading list to a complete newbie, and then calling Coppleston's work "massive"

Okay, so you're just a troll then. Having a 5/10 and be on your way.

>> No.3685333

>>3685322
When someone, possessing no reading comprehension and logic, stupidly interprets your message -- how can you not?

>> No.3685336

Fuck, forgot my username was still OP. Anyway, will read this >>3685282
Thanks man.

>> No.3685343

>>3685332
Oh, another retard.
Please read >>3685266 a few hundred times more, until it sinks in.

>> No.3685348

>>3685333
I'm sorry I made a snarky comment that bruised your ego. Let's not turn this thread into anymore of a pissing contest than it already is. Fine, I should have employed the principle of charity and assumed you were telling the OP to read secondary literature. I just couldn't help but make a little joke.

>> No.3685350

>>3685313

>We say philosophy begins with the Presocratics, but in a significant sense, it also begins with Plato.

That's a decidedly western-centric view of philosophy... What of Chinese, Persian, and Indian philosophy?

>> No.3685352
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3685352

>>3685343
If you honestly think that telling him to look at a recommended reading list for prospective philosophy students (containing introductory works) is the same as linking him to an 11 volume history work written for seminarians is the same thing, you're either a troll or retarded. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're a troll.

>> No.3685368

>>3685350
You're absolutely right. I know so little about Eastern philosophy, I never think to bring it up.

>> No.3685371

>>3685352

it was written as an introductory text since he found other books to be lacking in rigor. it doesn't matter that it was for seminary students...they are students above all else.

>> No.3685381

>>3685371
>Criticize someone for telling a newcomer to look at a list written for prospective students and undergrads
>Tell said newcomer to look at a massive work for graduate level students

TOP LEL

>> No.3685389

Take a load of this piece of wannabe elitist.

>implying your modern university-type philosophy reading lists aren't just a bunch of essays and excerpts torn from the historical trajectory of philosophy

>recommended reading list for prospective philosophy students (containing introductory works) is the same as linking him to an 11 volume history work written for seminarians is the same thing
Wow. This simile alone, along with your kitty-cat-pic, says everything about you.

>> No.3685392

>>3685389
Epic post, trollbro.

>> No.3685412

Freedomain Radio Podcast #1-#2200 is a good start

>> No.3685424

The first philosphy book I've read was Wittgenstein's Tractatus. I couldn't understand much, but it was a great way to find out what I needed to read in order to understand modern philosophy. Needless to say, I needed to read the greeks.

>> No.3685427

>>3685424
Didn't Wittgenstein not even read the Greeks? Or, he didn't read one of the famous Greek philosophers -- something like that.

>> No.3685428

http://plato.stanford.edu/

>> No.3685460

i started with spinoza's ethics, got my ass kicked, took a step back, spent some time with descartes, tackled ethics a second time with a new found confidence, failed even harder than the first time, said "fuck this shit", and got into kierkegaard.

that's how i began my philosophical endeavors. i wouldn't recommend it.

>> No.3685463

>>3685427

He claimed to have not. He claimed a lot of things. Then retracted them.

>> No.3685483

>>3685460
>got into kierkegaard
did you manage to understand him without dealing with christianity, the greeks, kant and hegel first?

>> No.3685485

>>3685424

>Needless to say, I needed to read the greeks.

Is that truly the necessary start? Will I not find a 101 philosophy course that doesn't spend the entire semester going over the greeks?

>> No.3685499

>>3685485
See >>3685269

>> No.3685501

>>3685499
Also,
The first link is self-explanatory, it's introductory material.

The second link is for year 1 courses
The third link is for year 2 courses
The fourth link is for year 3 courses

>> No.3685514

>>3685501
Also to note it that it does get into the Greeks heavily in the 1B courses (year 2)

>> No.3685524

>>3685483

considering i was just about done with philosophy when i decided to pick up a collection of his writings, at the time i felt i had enough of a handle on the text that i wasn't the complete idiot i initially took myself for, which was just enough to encourage me to continue my pursuit of philosophy rather than abandon it.

>> No.3685526

Start with a history of civilisation first. Otherwise you'll have no idea what the context is in which these philosophies were written.

Doesn't matter what it is, as long as it is something on Mesopotamia, ancient Egypt, ancient China, perhaps ancient Persia and ancient India. From then on you can start with ancient Greece

>> No.3685593

>>3685526
That sound like the coursera Ancient Greece course.

>> No.3685674

OP, do you have a higher definition version of that image? I love that cat.

>> No.3685681

>>3685526
Why start with civilization? You should start with a course in hominid evolution and animal behavior.

>> No.3685689

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/collection?collection=Perseus%3Acollection%3AGreco-Roman

good luck!

>> No.3685743

>>3685427
Iirc he used to boast he never read Kant.

>> No.3685765

>>3685743
He approached Kant through Schopenhauer -- the same way Popper did; the guy understood what Kant was all about only after reading Schop's work.

>> No.3685784

>>3685765

So he was an analytic philosopher that didn't understand the difference b/t analyticity and syntheticity

yuck

>> No.3685788

>>3685170

for those of you who have read sophie's world, is it an easy enough read to get my 13 year old niece for her birthday?

>> No.3685790

>>3685743
He wouldn't have understood him, anyway. Don't get me wrong, I love Wittgenstein. My thinking is more inspired by him than any other philosopher. The dude just had a blind spot for metaphysics, despite doing some great work in that field. Also, it wasn't even really an intellectual blind spot, more of a normative one.

>> No.3685799

>>3685788

Lel, Le subtle trolling face.

>> No.3685797

>>3685784
>So he was an analytic philosopher that didn't understand the difference b/t analyticity and syntheticity
What makes you think that? Have you read the Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient Reason and the both volumes of Will and Representation?

>> No.3685802

>>3685788
She probably won't really understand all of it, but if she's really sharp, she might like it, and get something out of it. Don't know. I don't know anything about kids. Sophie's World is pretty easy reading, though, and if not targeted at kids, certainly readable by many. So there's that.

>> No.3685804

>>3685788
Get her Philosophy in the Bedroom, it will be more suited to your purposes.

>> No.3685807

>>3685799

dude, im being seriously...partially

>> No.3685811

>>3685788
Considering that she has the same genes as you do, I suspect she wouldn't be able to comprehend a McDonald's menu.

>> No.3685813

>>3685788
>>3685807
stop fucking around goats

>> No.3685814

>>3685804

Or just give her Justine...

>> No.3685818

Philosophy in the Bedroom is actually meant for the education of young girls.

>> No.3685829

>>3685804

hrhrhr looks like someone's in top form

>> No.3685832

>>3685811

would be funny if i wasnt le most intelligent poster in this board you leaking anal wart

>>3685813
its happening

>> No.3685841

>>3685832

D&E was smarter.

>> No.3685849

>>3685841

apropos of le deepthroat regurgitant tongue flaps, more substance contained on one my most curled of asshairs, im glad he's dead, etc

>> No.3685886

>>3685813

yo goats,
what's happening with the collab? a structure needs to be devised. co-authored novel of this new postmodern generation, fuck a pulitzer i'm thinking on that prix goncourt game

>> No.3685897

>>3685849

D&E is dead?!?!?! Oh GOD, please no.

>> No.3685899

Start with Heraclitus.

>> No.3685910

>>3685897

dead, hibernating, violently raped under a bridge in Dublin, locked in a padded room, waterboarded in guantanamo, politically exiled, or just basement reigning some other part of the internet, who cares?

its all good news

>> No.3685914

>>3685897
He got shot by an analytical philosopher. Bleeding on the pavement, his last words were: 'Bullets are just a social construct...'

>>3685849
You sound like a wet chihuahua trying to sound ferocious.

>> No.3685929

>>3685914

this chihuahua'll bite your cunt fucking head off, ace
get at me

>> No.3685944

>>3685929

a sexy chihuahua, like a huge and muscular chihuahua, a chihuahua the size of Volkswagen Beetle, yeah mane, dass it

>> No.3685961

>>3685944

>gigantic chihuahua feeding on thousands upon thousand of corgis
>next to countless little retarded lesbians >coming all over each other
>turns taken to ensure proper collection of come
>little retarded lesbian holding some kind of saucer under the gushing waters
>large tongue chihuahuan cunnilingus


plnomin his, unclear

>> No.3685965

>>3685961

hear hear

>> No.3685980

>>3685929
There's nothing to get at. You should be thrown into an oubliette and left to rot. But I admire your vim, Stan. Maybe one day your petite intellect can climb to an impressive 50 IQ points. Actually, forget that; even Jesus would admit that you're a lost cause.

>> No.3686000

All you need to read is Neechee bruh.

>> No.3686008
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3686008

philosophy sucks, piss off

>> No.3686009

>>3685153
Think

>> No.3686018
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3686018

>>3686008
Stan has to keep his dog on a shorter leash.
If he doesn't watch out mine will rip him apart.

>> No.3686022

>>3685980

one can only hope...
anyway, i wonder at what point or other did i hurt your faggot feelings to leave you so disheartened? are you that NYU anon i rectally excavated over his kantian reading of nietzsche ...you write like him

>> No.3686030 [DELETED] 
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3686030

>>3686018
stan here, piss off

>> No.3686048 [DELETED] 
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3686048

>>3686018
thats a really nice dog though

>> No.3686053

>>3686022
Sorry if I was too mean to you, Stan. An autistic kid lives just across the street from me, I know how difficult it is for your kind to exist. To be nothing more than an excrescence protruding from society's left buttock...

Also, you don't need to mention anuses and faggots so much. We all know that you have homosexual preferences, otherwise you wouldn't have that black dildo in your rectum.

>> No.3686059

>>3686022

NYU anon here. No that isn't me and you did not "rectually excavate" me before. I simply maintained that N was inconsistent and that a Kantian reading was possible and useful.

I also would never insult the IQ of another. I hold that intelligence cannot be measured. To do so would be to commit a category mistake.

Now, as you were. Continue arguing with yourself.

>> No.3686063

>>3686048
>>3686030
i don't like these being there

>> No.3686119

>>3686030
Lol stan, you're like a woman.
Saying piss off while doing what asked.

>> No.3686126
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3686126

>>3685886
I'm doing field research at the welfare office.

>> No.3686127

>>3686059

my bad NUY anon,
struck me as you for some weird reason.
it's probably the cross-dressing australian manatee hilariously attempting revenge,

>>3686053
lel,
overlooking the fact that you're trying way too hard at this point, i'd like some
more verbal abuse please. it's been a while.

>> No.3686139

>>3686119

yeah that wasnt me,
twas zeta

why did you delete it zeta?>>3686063

>> No.3686156

>>3686063
watchu doing catherine?

>> No.3686158
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3686158

Whatever happened to him?

>> No.3686163

>>3686158
I'm still here. Even though I gave Stan my address, he never showed up.

>> No.3686169

>>3686158

ahahahaha, yeah that's the one.
le throwing up out of all orifices face.
its you >>3686053 isnt it?

>> No.3686185

>>3686169
You promised to come to my house, Stan. I actually shaved my entire body for you. You wanna see a pic? With a dress on, obv, but I can show you my bald head and face; I look like a lil baby.

>> No.3686193
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3686193

>>3686169
>>3686185
Here. Do you think I look younger?

>> No.3686197

OP here, where should I start in my philosophical endeavours? Please.

>> No.3686202

>>3686169
Nope. I'm not pleb enough to be Australian. I'd rather touch your cousin than go to Straya - it's hell.

>> No.3686203

>>3686169

>out of all orifices

sounds like you are both repulsed and aroused

yuck

>> No.3686205

>>3686197
Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit

>> No.3686210

start on /lit/, of course

>> No.3686211

>>3686205

100/10

>> No.3686212

>>3686193
Why are there dead leaves on the ground? Couldn't afford roses petals for you photoshoot?

>> No.3686246
File: 91 KB, 640x960, nyu graduation empire state building.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3686246

>>3686197

Real advice here:

Why Is There Something Rather Than Nothing by Leszek Kołakowski.

It communicates the general ideas of 23 great philosophers in a manner even a Pole could understand (since it was originally published for laymen in Poland)

>> No.3686307

>>3686205
Thanks, I've ordered it.

>>3686246
Not sure if I want advice from a racist..

>> No.3686324

>>3686307

>implying poles are a race...

>> No.3686330

>>3686324
>implying poles are people
>implying poles aren't just catholic scumbags

>> No.3686364

>>3685170

Bro I was reading Kant when I was that age. If she's of any intelligence, she'll be able to do it.

>> No.3686388

>>3686307
>Not sure if I want advice from a racist..

You don't even ethics, dude. why are you making any moral judgements?

>> No.3686393

>>3686388
Some things are just wrong.

>> No.3686419

Jesus Christ, my autism meter, gaydar, and fuckwit detectors are off the charts in this thread.

>> No.3686426

>>3686419
That's because you're in it.

>> No.3686431

>>3686419

I'm not sure I want advice from an ableist, homophobe, neurotypical...

>> No.3686438

>>3686419
Who are you referring to?

>> No.3686452

I bought The Story of Philosophy by Will Durant today, so I can get a basic overview before delving in full-sail. Did I do well?

>> No.3686457

yes
delete the thread

>> No.3686459

>>3686457
I'm not OP. Sorry to disappoint you.

>> No.3686484

>>3686059
>I hold that intelligence cannot be measured. To do so would be to commit a category mistake.

I want tohear your thoughts about this. Why would it be a category mistake? I've found that IQ tests are a great predictor for intellectual performance. the correlations between it and say, scores on SAT, LSAT and general cognitive ability are fairly stable and indicative.

>>3686202

>Straya
lel
hardly believable when one uses region-specific dialect...
you uncouth little try hard faggot,
though i will give you that you do look younger in the pic, albeit equally repulsive


>>3686203

do you usually link vomit and diarrhea with arousal?
i do too, but in this case it just didnt do it for me. if i had indeed been aroused polka dot shamu would be walking with crutches at this point

>> No.3686490

>>3685153
Get Donald Palmer's Does The Centre Hold for a quick overview of western philosophy

>> No.3686496

>>3686484

I'm not him but IQ tests don't mean shit. I was at a 108 and I had a 1390 SAT. What was yours?

>> No.3686500

>>3686431
>ableist
back to tumblr
>homophobe
I do not fear homosexuality, nor do i think it should be illegal in any way
>neurotypical
>>>/r9k/

>> No.3686505

>>3686496
i'm not him but I had 140 something and i got a 1580 on the SAT (math and reading only, writing section not then in use)

>> No.3686524

>>3686496

yeah those scores dont add up. i had a139, but i took it a long time ago.
sat 1410 LSAT 168
generally though, id say IQ tests are a reliable predictor.
a thing to be considered is the testing environment itself. anxiety issues and time related pressure account for significant misappraisal

>> No.3686534

>>3686524

Fucking test anxiety kills me everytime.

>> No.3686547

>>3686534

me too.
i was scoring in the mid 170s(99th percentile) during my LSAT practice tests and got a 168(96th)
7 points drop is huge in the LSAT

>> No.3686561

>>3686547
Where did you go to get tested?

Most of the free internet tests are sketchy

>> No.3686656

>>3686139
ehh i was about to leave and felt obnoxious
>>3686156
just got home bro

>> No.3686698

>>3686561
free clinic

>> No.3686724

>>3686698

did they test you for hiv too?

>> No.3686737

>>3686561

i took a 3 week kaplan course. they had official lsats

>>3686724
yea