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/lit/ - Literature

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3680153 No.3680153 [Reply] [Original]

>> No.3680161

Your point?

>> No.3680160

>Reading fiction.

>> No.3680166

>mastery
>beautiful

what next, appeal to God?

>> No.3680177

>>3680166
>>3680161

>>>/tv/

>> No.3680235

"Ay sir: I, a lost mutton, gave your letter to her,
a laced mutton, and she, a laced mutton, gave
me, a lost mutton, nothing for my labour."

Look at all that repetition. What a fucking hack.

>> No.3680234

>>3680153
What the fuck is Fitzgerald talking about. Someone explain this shit. I've read the passage three times and I'm not getting anything. I'm just confused.

>> No.3680271

>>3680234
You're the kind of person who judges this book and calls it bad arent you

>> No.3680285

>>3680234
Break it down into individual sentences. Read one sentence and try to understand it then move on to the next one.

>> No.3680432

How does that excerpt evoke beautiful imagery?

>> No.3680451

>who journeyed to Denver, who died in Denver, who came back to Denver & waited in vain, who watched over Denver & brooded & loned in Denver and finally went away to find out the Time, & now Denver is lonesome for her heroes

oh yeah, repetition is just the worst

>> No.3680482

>>3680432

Or sympathy for Gatsby and the narrator for that matter.

>> No.3680509

I prefer GRRM's
Still not gonna read his stuff.

>> No.3681661

All this really proves is that a writer doesn't need a great vocabulary (even if Fitzgerald does have one, that passage isn't proof) to be write great literary works.

>> No.3681793

>>3680451
In some cases it's allowed. Aesthetics always has exceptions to rules.

>> No.3681796

>>3680153
Best way to become a good writer: Don't write about vulgarity. It's disgusting.

>> No.3681826

Not a fan of either. The quote from Fitzgerald feels insincere. Which doesn't mean it is, but it feels like a man hiding behind his prose. The sentiment is broken up with unnecessary qualifiers and metaphors.Just tell me what you think about Gatsby, Fitzgerald. You don't have to dance like a circus clown if you've got substance.

Not a fan of Martin, either, but that quote was specially picked for being... er... shitty.

>> No.3681851

>>3681826
>insincere

Here you have the author who sacrifices his prose for the text and plot, the style mimics the narrative and setting. Fitzgerald is willing to forgo from his own identity, his own self, in order to improve on the book.

>> No.3681858

>>3681851
It's almost like one can justify anything the author does if one wants to.

>> No.3681861

Just pointing this out, but the Great Gatsby is written from the point of view of one particularly well read and educated 20th century character. A character who is writing and editing his story for others to read.

ASOIAF is written for many points of view, all from a medieval equivalent time. The books show what they are thinking and doing at that time without the luxury of correcting their language to make it seem better. And Martin changes range of vocabulary depending on the point of view. His more common & less educated points of view use less varied and more vulgar language, while his higher-born or more educated (well at least the intelligent ones) vary it up a bit and are less vulgar, except when they're in "a world of shit" or just plain don't like where they are

>> No.3681863

>>3681851
> Fitzgerald is willing to forgo from his own identity, his own self, in order to improve on the book.

I can't see anything good about this, who is the one deciding if the book is improved or not? Having technical mastery is important for any art, but still the work needs to be a piece of you, without that you're just arranging pretty words with no weight behind them.

>> No.3681865

>>3680153
By that level reasoning and cherry-picking of examples, you could clearly justify Stephanie Meyer as the Good Writer and Neil Gaiman as the Bad Writer

>> No.3681868

I wonder what was going through GRRM's mind when he wrote that.

>> No.3681871

>>3681868
That it was a particularly inspiring and thought provoking location the character was not used to seeing

>> No.3681873

>>3681851

Ah, I was a bit confused on the source. Can't read, I guess. Now I see the quote is from the perspective of the narrator of Gatsby. My point still stands, though. Just because there are contextual reasons for something, doesn't mean it works. I'm not a big fan of plot-driven texts, in any case. It's always the characters, setting, prose, and style that gets me. Which Fitzgerald obviously pays a lot of attention to, but not in a way that works for me. I like everything all a little more naked.

>> No.3681875

Y'all niggas are stupid. I love the voice in the Fitz piece.

>> No.3681876

>>3680153
Fitzy couldnt write a sellable screenplay. it damn near killed him too. hemmmmmmingwah, faulkner, wrote the shit out of some movies and got paid well, or well enough. our scott, never got the hollywood money recognition, he was beaten like cat without a tail.
at least he had zelda.

>> No.3681879

>>3681865
Did Neil Gaiman ever write about shit?

>> No.3681881

>>3681868
He had just gotten through a day-long German porn watching session

>> No.3681899

>>3680153
I have just one question. Will that GRRM passage eventually be shown in the HBO GoT series?

>> No.3681905

>>3681879
You might want to read the OP's "law-binding" picture first

>> No.3681906
File: 52 KB, 276x214, monkey typing.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3681906

>Martin doesn't say "penis," so his writing sucks.

UNDERSTOOD. I WILL NOW WRITE THE GREATEST NOVEL OF ALL TIME:

Once a upon a penis, there was a penis who lived in North Penis, which is in Australia. There he climbed to the top of the penis tower and said the following:

"Penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis! In addition, please note that penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis. Also, penis penis penis....

THIS GOES ON FOR 370 PAGES. I'LL BE BY LATER TO PICK UP MY PULITZER.

>> No.3681908

>>3681865
Really you could render anyone as either, and one biased example against another doesn't prove anything

>> No.3681910

>>3681899
I think that point in time has already be passed, I think it was during her time in the red wastes in book/season two. Might be wrong.

>> No.3681913

>>3680153
So you're comparing a man's admiration for someone who's surrounded by people who act otherwise to a woman with diarrhoea?

...Great...

>> No.3681914

>>3681906
Better than The Catcher in the Rye.

>> No.3681916

>>3681914
"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend to be a phimosis, limp-dick"

Truly the laughing man

>> No.3681918
File: 146 KB, 320x213, Phony.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3681918

>>3681914

>> No.3681919

>>3681916
>"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend to be a phimosis, limp-dick"

BRILLIANT!

But, as an editor, I'd have to say that "limp-penis" would be better, remember lad, we're making history!

>> No.3681924

>>3681914
>The Catcher in the Rye

You shut your whore mouth. Oh wait. Actually, I have no real affection for that book. Just wanted to defend something. Continue.

>> No.3681931

I always found the praise for The Catcher in the Rye to be weird. It's supposed to be one of the greatest young men's novels, but it's from the point of view of a middle-class privaliged, whiney waste of space

>> No.3682136

>>3681931
I was also told that it's really controversial and shocking, but nothing in that book struck me as anything out of the ordinary.

>> No.3682312

>>3681851
This post feels insincere.

>> No.3682328

>>3681865
>Neil Gaiman
>not a bad writer

>> No.3682344

quentin pls

>> No.3682346

Tender Is the Night>>The Great Gatsby

>> No.3682349

>>3681931
many young men these days are middle-class privileged and whiney

>> No.3682354

So you think a small pragraph describing a woman with diarrhea needs to be written with an extensively variated vocabulary?

Because if yoou do, you're a god damned retard sombish.

>> No.3682357

>>3680153

Cherry-picking, and while I adore Fitzgerald's composition, I also admire Martin's honesty. A writer should always be honest to his story. If a character is having violent, explosive diarrhea as part of some trial, there's no reason not to mention it. That readers may find it gross is certainly not a good reason.

Further, the vulgarity of Martin's choice of word depends on the POV. A penis is a "manhood" when a child is the POV, but a "cock" when we're following a lecherous whoremonger.

>> No.3682363

>>3681863
No, it doesn't need to be you. It is you. You're presence will always be there. It's your work. But the author should be invisible. Otherwise you're breaking the 4th wall simply because you crave attention and need "your voice".

>> No.3682367

>>3682363
>You're

Why did I just write that.

>> No.3682370

>>3680153
i think i want to read asoiaf now, it sounds like a fucking riot.

>> No.3682780

>>3681931
>it's from the point of view of a middle-class privaliged, whiney waste of space

that's the point

>> No.3682869

>>3681906
10/10

>> No.3682987

Is that an actual quote from A dance with dragons? Surely it can't be.

>> No.3682994

>>3681910
Why do they keep the sex and violence but censor the shitting? Why would an artistic master like GRRM include it in his book if it wasn't important?!?!/1

>> No.3682998

>>3682354
He means it should've been cut out as disturbing and not aesthetically pleasing.

>> No.3683010

>>3682987
It is, but it's biased because the faggot who made this picked a shitty part of the book.

>LOL

>> No.3683030

>>3682987
Last chapter of Daenerys. Though OP's picture is a clear example of cherrypicking, because in the same chapter you'll find good writing as well, mainly Viserys/Jorah's dialogue.
And The Great Gatsby is not Fitzgerald's best work. Surely OP could have tried to make a point, instead of roosing us.

>> No.3683483

>>3683030
Even if he put GRRM's best vs Fitzgerald's best, Fitz would've been acknowledged the winner due to him having far more widespread acclaim in literary circles.

Technically, one doesn't even have to look at individual passages because we know the reputations of these authors. Looking at individual passages can only confuse us as to the literary community's opinion. Take this example: what if for some reason I see some Martin passages I think are superior to Fitzy's? Then I'll start to get confused over who is really the better writer by allowing my own opinion into it--rather than deferring to the elite literary establishment.

>> No.3683551

>>3683483
>what if for some reason I see some Martin passages I think are superior to Fitzy's?

then you're a pleb

/thread

>> No.3683567

By this logic James Joyce is the worst writer in the world.

Not a big fan of GRRM, but that comparison reasoning is unfair.

>> No.3683616

>>3683551
>Then I'll start to get confused over who is really the better writer by allowing my own opinion into it--rather than deferring to the elite literary establishment.

>> No.3683625
File: 140 KB, 470x353, calle borjesson5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3683625

>> No.3684675

I'm sad this thread will end like this: empty and unfulfilled.

>> No.3684717

>>3681661 What grrm is writing is childish when compared to Fitzgerald. It shows how dumbed down literature has become to be able to cater to the even dumber masses. It illustrates that despite all the education this country buys its not getting any smarter.

>> No.3684725

>>3683483
>b-but muh opinion

>> No.3684735

Could someone post that anachronistic description when he compares a coin to a quarter or some shit like that?

>> No.3684737

>>3683625

hi qt

>> No.3684739

>>3684717
But what about the good authors who write about diarrhea.

>> No.3684765

>Dat purple prose

>> No.3684766

>>3684765
I don't think you know what purple prose is.

>> No.3684770

Can something crude be considered good writing?

>> No.3684771

>>3680153
So you take one great example from a classic.
And one bad example from a popular fantasy series.
And you use it to judge which is the greater writer.

>> No.3684796

>comparing two writers from absolutely different literary currents, times, creative purpose, and context
This is the way to spot the kind of person that reads for a sense of superiority. Understand your /lit/ people, don't let yourself be brainwashed by sensationalists blokes.

>> No.3684933

>>3684770
Yes, but only in very specific circumstances, where the prose is written crudely with a specific effect in mind. Like in the Great Gatsby, the dialogue and setting descriptions in scenes between Gatsby and Daisy are all written clumsily and awkwardly to create a certain stifling atmosphere between them.

>> No.3684958

>>3684796
If you can't recognize that Fitzgerald is a superior writer I'd be willing to say that you're a retard.

You're excusing GRRM's trite porridge for prose and seem to be insinuating that he could write like that if he "only wanted to".

>> No.3685302

>>3684771
As has been noted before, the very fact that one is labeled a classic and the other is a popular fantasy series precludes the latter from being better than the former.

>> No.3685305

>>3684933
>Yes, but only in very specific circumstances, where the prose is written crudely with a specific effect in mind.

How does one prove something was written with a specific effect in mind? Without authorial comment, it's entirely up to interpretation.

>> No.3685334

>>3684958
Is Fitzgerald entertaing? Comparatively more than Martin? Because they're fiction writers, and entertainment is all they are good for.

You guys are arguing about who is the best clown, and doing so by comparing a guy who worked with Cirque du Soleil to someone who worked on a national level; it's not even about quality anymore, just demographics.

>> No.3685378

>>3684770
Read Joyce. Hell, even his dirty letters to his gf were pretty nicely written.

>> No.3685390
File: 282 KB, 970x429, fitzblah.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3685390

Edited that shit for clarity, jesus christ what a pile of doo.

>> No.3685445

>>3685334
>I troll, I troll u good

>> No.3685451

>>3685334

>Because they're fiction writers, and entertainment is all they are good for.

Dude, made-up stories about made-up people are, like, serious business and stuff.