[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 1002 KB, 1442x1005, the-treachery-of-images-this-is-not-a-pipe-1948(2).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3664305 No.3664305 [Reply] [Original]

Is this a pipe?

>> No.3664311

No, it's a representation of a pipe /thread

>> No.3664315

>>3664311
Are those dubs?

>> No.3664325

That painting bothers me because it is making a pointless statement. Of course it isn't a pipe. Nothing you can possibly see is a pipe, just the representation of a pipe with which your senses provide you. Sure, images are treacherous, but what that painting should be called is "the treachery of 2D".

>> No.3664327

>>3664325
Is this a pretentious faggot?

>> No.3664331

>>3664327

It's the selfrepresentation of a pretentious faggot, thanks v. much.

>> No.3664329

>>3664305
It's an inverted cock and balls.

>> No.3664334

>>3664311
yes, but even "pipe" is just a symbol of pipe. How is this representation less a pipe than "pipe"? If we stand by those standards than even "a pipe is not a pipe", which would make our whole language system so impotent as to be eternally bereft of meaning.

>> No.3664335

>>3664334
>our whole language system so impotent as to be eternally bereft of meaning.

ding ding ding

>> No.3664344

>>3664334
>>3664335
>our whole language system so impotent as to be eternally bereft of meaning
I cried when my girlfriend told me she loved me. How can you say that's meaningless?

>> No.3664347

>>3664344

Meaning means what I mean it means. deal w/it faggot.

>> No.3664348

No it's a symbol of le pipe, something we should recognize when approaching jingoistic party campaigns, yadda yadda yadda

>> No.3664353

Yes. The picture of a pipe is a pipe, the spoken and written word "pipe" is a pipe, the physical object for smoking tobacco is a pipe. They all represent the idea of a pipe in the material world.

>> No.3664362
File: 150 KB, 405x412, 1315506875056.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3664362

>>3664325
>the treachery of 2D

2D > 3D

>> No.3664370

>>3664353

I don't agree. I think that the first two represent the image of the third, and should be differentiated from it. The fact that the third is called a pipe when in fact it's only an image itself is unfortunate, but I don't feel like calling that Magritte the representation of a representation of a pipe, so I shan't.

>> No.3664372

>>3664344
You are a human being, human beings cling to empty things. You need words because you need something to project your need to feel emotionally attached into something.

>> No.3664374

>>3664372
not just him we are all human beings, and the word meaning is thrown around between us. It has force in its use and that is enough to say that meaning is not meaningless.

>> No.3664381

>>3664374

Nah, not really. Nothing distinguishes between "real" and "unreal" human beings, as >>3664362 could no doubt tell you.

>> No.3664384

Stop this stupid competition of Who Is The Smartest Guy

>> No.3664388

>>3664384

New here?

>> No.3664418

>>3664381
reality is a trickier semantic jumble, but deny meaning is an absurdity. If we throw off meaning than you cannot object to the statement "there is meaning" on account of what do you appeal to? If there is meaning than it is obviously true. Thus the statement "there is meaning" can never be false. Which is all the same to say that without appeals to transcendental authority we simply take things on their face.

>> No.3664421

>>3664384
you just angry cause you're losing.

>> No.3664431

>>3664418

It's not false, just meaningless.

>> No.3664438
File: 75 KB, 900x999, pipe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3664438

>>3664305

What on earth is that?

This is a pipe.

>> No.3664445

>>3664431
and yet it still holds power. Here we are after all trading symbols in this complex way. Isn't that enough for meaning?

>> No.3664449
File: 7 KB, 224x180, imgres-2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3664449

Descarte's Evil Demon

>> No.3664453

Am I a person?

>> No.3664455

>>3664449
Hilary Putnam's retort suffices for me.

>> No.3664460

godamn that faggot had to be so pretentious to write that underneath
there have been painting done for thousands of years before him. Nobody else felt the need to write 'this is not a waterfall', or 'this is not an elephant' but they still all grasped that it's not really a fucking waterfall or an elephant


no idea why this is considered so influential. The point is inane

>> No.3664465

it's a mustache, right?

>> No.3664469

>>3664460
he should have wrote 'this is phallic imagery and I"m a fag'

>> No.3664473

If I hung a mirror in an 'art' gallery and put the words 'You are looking at a faggot' underneath it, would it become a famous work of art as well?

>> No.3664482

>>3664473
Change 'faggot' to 'stranger' and we're golden.

>> No.3664505
File: 19 KB, 220x270, 220px-Foucault5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3664505

Postin in a Foucault thread.

>> No.3664537

>>3664305
Non, eez a "peep", monsieur.

>> No.3664549

>>3664384
It's called semiotics. In my experience semiotics make people neurotic and crazy.

>> No.3664572
File: 216 KB, 700x1072, csbeirce.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3664572

Signing in a sing sign.

>> No.3664577

>>3664549
It must be like fundamental logics then.

>> No.3664580

>>3664505
My man

>> No.3664624
File: 23 KB, 246x262, Plato-raphael.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3664624

That is merely an imitation (mimesis) of the Form of a pipe - the Form then being the true pipe.

>> No.3664630

>>3664473

But it's only an image of a faggot. The true faggot is invisible, ineffable, incomprehensible.

>> No.3664643

>>3664624
Actually, a pipe would be an imitation of the Form of a pipe. This is an imitatation of a pipe. (Book X)

>> No.3665196

>>3664344
She'll leave you.

>> No.3665241

>>3664624
This is an imitation of the form of a picture of a pipe.

Fuck, I hate this shit.

>> No.3665254

No, it's a pee pee

>> No.3665635

>>3664305
Fais moi une pipe, surrealistfag. We gave you the better part of a century, I'd like most of it back.

>> No.3665678

Well, we experience everything through metaphor. All we perceive is done so through the brain. We could be in a matrix (film) like world with ideas being pumped into our minds. Also, solipsism, all that is, could be confined to my mind, including your mind.
There are quite a few potential reasons for us not experiencing our reality. Then we describe our reality with mental and physical constructs, metaphors.

>> No.3665693

>>3664334
Just to clarify, what do we mean by "pipe" and pipe?

The real object that we smoke out of is a pipe, which is just a symbol of our idea of a "pipe"?

What do you mean then by "How is this representation less a pipe than "pipe"?

>> No.3666486
File: 73 KB, 524x468, 1359556019730.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3666486

>>3664305

>if it is written in french it's automatically more deep and artistic

Surrender-monkey's are the masters of pretense.

>> No.3666495

>>3665693
by "pipe" i mean the orthographic symbol. The written language beneath is just as treacherous as the image.

>> No.3666497
File: 123 KB, 867x942, WELL IS IT.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3666497

is a monkey a waiter?

>> No.3666499
File: 20 KB, 278x390, Bob_Dobbs_approves.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3666499

>> No.3667311

>mixing language games
>thinking grammatical confusions are "deep"

>> No.3667336

>>3666486
>assuming the only reason art wouldn't be in English is a deliberate attempt to be more deep and artistic
French was the Magritte's first language you utter moron.

>> No.3667452
File: 1.99 MB, 250x158, 1358695593834.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3667452

>>3667336

Frog eating faggot confirmed

>> No.3667515
File: 27 KB, 500x352, 734178_10200247275497857_819330603_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3667515

>>3664305
Is this a pope?

>> No.3667524

no

>> No.3667536

The point is, if the picture of a pipe is not actually a pipe, then how come a picture of the words actually the words?

If you believe the words you can't know them. If you know them you can't believe them. That's the point he's making.

>> No.3667550

Mais oui c'est une putain de pipe c'est quoi cette connerie ? Vous êtes tous nazes ou vous faites semblant ?
trop long; j'ai pas lu : VOUS ÊTES DES TARLOUZES, C'EST UNE PIPE NOM DE DIEU.

>> No.3667552

>Surrealism
The fact that we can have a thread on 4chan debating this in 2013 means Magritte was successful in what she was trying to do.

But I agree with >>3664325

>> No.3667553
File: 187 KB, 738x352, fixed that for you.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3667553

>>3667515

>> No.3667560

>>3667536
It's a really stupid point, is the problem. Its the sort of thing someone would say in their first ever aesthetics seminar and immediately get corrected on. Any basic understanding of how language, signs or art work is all that is required to understand what is going on there.

>> No.3667561

>>3667552
>But I agree with >>3664325
but that's such a naive view, you're taking the words at face value. Why should they be so privileged when the image isn't?

>> No.3667567

>>3667560
Why would you stop at just what is required? You can profit much more from it if you go a further.

>> No.3667565

>>3667552
No, the only reason we are debating it on a thread on 4chan in 2013 is because of how utterly intellectually bankrupt and self congratulatory the art world is.

>> No.3667574 [DELETED] 

>>3667567
Be more explicit with your posts, especially when discussing abstract concepts. I have no fucking clue what you are referring to.

>> No.3667578

>>3667561
>The famous pipe. How people reproached me for it! And yet, could you stuff my pipe? No, it's just a representation, is it not? So if I had written on my picture "This is a pipe," I'd have been lying!
From wikipedia. Even the artist's own words don't seem to have much more than that face value.

>> No.3667583

>>3667574
>dangling preposition
why are you even here?

>> No.3667584

>>3667567
There isn't anything mysterious happening. It only seems interesting if you take the most childish, naive and disinterested approach to the subject. Think about it for more than a second and the confusion vanishes. It is just a childish joke, something like a category pun.

>> No.3667585

>>3667578
you have missed the point entirely of what I said. You're still privileging words of the image. Why?

>> No.3667589

>>3667584
Art is a collaboration, the audience sees what they put in. You have no one to blame but yourself if you can't find depth.

>> No.3667590
File: 21 KB, 267x200, this_thread_gave_me_cancer_by_piratesadventure-d5f6o9n[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3667590

Ass cancer.

>> No.3667595

>>3667589
Grandstanding bullshit. You are right it is a collaboration, but we don't have to be like the apes in 2001 Space Odyssey around objects of little to no significance. The pipe is just a stupid joke. It only appears interesting if you suspend your reason and pretend there is some problem where there is not. There is more aesthetic worth on the back of a packet of cornflakes than in this thing.

>> No.3667599

>>3667585
Kindly explain to me what I'm missing out on, then.

>> No.3667604

>>3667595
I disagree. Cornflakes are just terrible.

>> No.3667611

Shit painter, shit thread

>> No.3667613
File: 213 KB, 468x640, 237747635_d7d81ddc9d_z[1].jpg_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3667613

>>3667604
Nah man just look at this shit, we could mine this thing all day.

>> No.3667620

>>3667613
2deep4me, I'm out.