IS HIP-HOP IS POETRY?

[Anonymous No.3584341]

Can somebody please explain to me the following?:

How can this be widely considered poetry:

"My remark on this score was under-
stood but not appreciated. I was
offered refreshments, which I accepted.
I ate a sandwich of pure meat: an
enormous sandwich of human flesh,
I noticed, while I was chewing on it,
it also included a dirty asshole."

While this is not considered to be poetry?:

"He introduced me
Explain, I stepped to the podium
Said peace, gave thanks to the holy one
Put my water up, thought about my daughter for a second
The youth, the living resurrection
Reflections of the sun glaring through the window
Now the audience staring at my mental
Feeling like the world, the world is at my fingers
'Bout to speak to an auditorium full of dreamers
Kinda took me back to when I first had a dream
To be like the king that sang Billie Jean
Now it's gold records, and I'm on silver screens
At the mountaintop, you still gotta dream
To the dreamers."

Try and facilitate a logical discussion/argument here: is Hip-Hop poetry? Why or why not?

[Anonymous No.3584364]

Poetry is part of hip-hop, but vocal delivery and production are just as important. They're different.

Quit making this thread fuccboi

[Anonymous No.3584377]

Old school hip-hop used to be poetry. In fact, hip-hop has many of it's roots in poetry.

>A young heart with an old soul
>How can there be peace?
>How can I be in the depths of solitude
>When there are two inside of me?
>This duo in me causes the perfect opportunity
>To learn and live twice as fast
>As those who accept simplicity...

Can you guess who wrote that? Tupac Shakur.

He wrote other poems, but most of them are not grammatically correct and the spelling is off. This was done purposely to illustrate the lack of education within the African-American community, especially the younger generation. He knew how to spell, read and write, of course, but he yearned to showcase how even through a lack of education, one can create art and still maintain their 'soul,' whatever that means. Take the last comment however you will.

>Through the lights cameras and action, glamour glitters and gold
>I unfold the scroll, plant seeds to stampede the globe
>When I'm deceased, by then the beast arise like yeast
>To conquer peace leaving savages to roam in the streets
>Live on the run, police paying me to give in my gun
>Trick my wisdom with the system that imprisoned my son
>Smoke a gold leaf I hold heat, nonchalantly
>I'm raunchy, the things I do is real it never haunts me
>While, funny style niggas roll in the pile
>Rooster heads profile on a bus to Riker's Isle
>Holding weed inside they pussy with they minds on the pretty things in life
>Props is a true thug's wife
>It's like a cycle, niggas come home, some'll go in
>Do a bullet, come back, do the same shit again
>From the womb to the tomb, presume the unpredictable
>Guns salute life, rapidly, that's the ritual

That's the first verse from ''Verbal Intercourse.'' Nas, one of the best lyricists ever, grants us that verse.

Hip-hop based poetry is intriguing in the sense that it utilizes slang from their urban era in a very poignant manner. This has roots in Afro-inspired poetry; see Langston Hughes.

[Anonymous No.3584389]

>>3584377
That being said, the hip-hop that we see today is rarely poetry or inspired by it. The greatest lyricists back in the day used to write and read excessively, whilst others were naturally gifted. The Notorious B.I.G. was such a naturally gifted lyricist that if he made the choice to pursue poetry, he'd easily be amongst the best in his era.

Most hip-hop artists/rap stars don't even fully embrace the term, MC: Master of Ceremony. Calling oneself an MC was a very, very big deal in the mid-to-late 80s and early-to-mid 90s. After a while, the term was just thrown around excessively and everyone was an 'MC.'

The garbage out here today has nothing to do with poetry. The Cash Money clique/YMCMB, A$AP clique, etc -- it's all garbage.

To see the influence of poetry in hip-hop, also listen to Special Ed, very old Biggie, Black Moon, GZA/Inspectah Deck, RZA, etc.

[Anonymous No.3584420]

>>3584389
This maybe applies if you solely listen to the radio, but the recent less-mainstream hip-hop is still going strong. The last couple years have been incredible for hip-hop. We've seen Danny Brown, El-P, Billy Woods, Kendrick Lamar, and Killer Mike release projects, and I'd rank them as top tier lyricists.

Not to mention Jay Electronica, while not having been active for the last couple of years, is probably the best pure poet hip-hop's ever seen

[Anonymous No.3584509]

>>3584377

>that Nas verse
>Props is a true thug's wife

Every time. Fuck, that whole album, really.

Another one of my favorites:

>elohim, with the rhyme scheme
>and when the lyrics leave the mouth they look like light beams
>with wings attached to the mic I say fly rhymes
>read between the lines
>the beat be tryin' to sex me and marry me
>I'm talking white picket fence and a family
>they stand behind me, and reflect reality
>stage one - master of ceremonies
>and when the seven magnificent walked in
>raisin' hell to lower heaven
>we explored all the crevices
>brothers is mad I wear knowledge like a third degree burn
>light the match, put it to the rhyme book
>make sure it all fits in the urn
>the cream of life, beats and rhymes are butter
>that in which I churn...

[Anonymous No.3584516]

>>3584341
Yes

[Anonymous No.3584522]

>>3584420

History Will Absolve Me was so fucking good.

Like...so fucking good.

[Anonymous No.3584574]

>>3584377
Those last two lines gave me chills. I had actually always associated Tupac with angsty rebellious teenagers emblazoning graffiti about worshipping '2pac 4 lyfe', but I suppose that he might have actually been a damn good lyricist.

[Anonymous No.3584801]

>>3584341
>is Hip-Hop poetry? Why or why not?
Technically yes. However, hip-hop is marketed, published and sold purely on the fact that it sounds aggressive and violent. Thus, the fact that is poetry is irrelevant and incidental; the purpose and point of hip-hop isn't to be poetic.

[Anonymous No.3584983]

>>3584801
This is ignorant, small minded, and wrong.

You're basing your conclusion off a small minority of hip-hop, and frankly, I have to wonder how you could be so unaware of pop culture as to have reached that idea. Kanye West, and imitators of his style, rule the radio right now. What does he rap about? Emotions, insecurity, escapism, consumerism, racism. He's never made a violent threat on record in his life.

Barring that obvious example, Hip-hop has its roots in black empowerment, positivity, and social criticism. It's absolutely poetry, and the best lyricists' work are certainly worth discussion and analysis.

[Anonymous No.3584986]

>>3584574
How is that original and not angsty in anyway? Read some more god damn poetry. Tupac (if he's supposedly the best) is basically on par with bukowski. And bukowski is shit. If hip-hop is poetry, it's lousy poetry.

[Anonymous No.3584988]

>>3584983
>What does he rap about? Emotions, insecurity, escapism, consumerism, racism. He's never made a violent threat on record in his life.
So?? It doesn't _matter_ what the textual content of his songs is about. People buy his records purely because they sound violent, aggressive and manly. They don't listen to or care about the textual content of his songs.

>It's absolutely poetry, and the best lyricists' work are certainly worth discussion and analysis.
It's not poetry. It may _contain_ poetry, but that's incidental; the purpose of rap is to sound aggressive and violent. The fact that there's some poetry in there is an accident of history.

As a clarifying example: video games are not music. Some video games have great and wonderfully crafted musical scores, but that is incidental; it would be wrong to say that 'video games are music'. Music and video games serve different purposes.

[Anonymous No.3584989]

>>3584983
>Kanye West
please nigga

[T-Rack !!ZZOhLqXOxP2 No.3584991]

>>3584420

You got a Jay Electronica recommendation? I tried him ages ago but wasn't down

[T-Rack !!ZZOhLqXOxP2 No.3585001]

>>3584988

Since when did the intention of the consumer validate the work of art? It doesn't matter what the content of "The Master" is because many people who saw it only wanted to admire Joaquin Phoenix's looks. Do you see how that's wrong?

>It's not poetry. It may _contain_ poetry, but that's incidental; the purpose of rap is to sound aggressive and violent. The fact that there's some poetry in there is an accident of history.

You do not know much about the origins of hip hop. The violence came after the invention of the poetry, friend.

And your analogy to video games is quite terrible. Video games are not a form of music, no, but they are a different presentation of it, among other elements, an interactive presentation.

Hip hop is poetry, presented with a beat. The beat is the "music" in video games. Hip hop is not just the beat, either.

Sounds like you got some bad impressions in your life, anon.

[Anonymous No.3585004]

Joey Bada$$ is bringing hip-hop back

[Anonymous No.3585012]

>>3585001
>Since when did the intention of the consumer validate the work of art?
Rap isn't art. Rap is a consumer product.

>You do not know much about the origins of hip hop. The violence came after the invention of the poetry, friend.
That does not matter. Today, in 2013, rap is a consumer product that sells an aggressive and violent beat track to those who think that testosterone-fueled profanity is cool.

Such is life. Don't argue with me, blame the people who made rap into an industry.

[Anonymous No.3585025]

>>3584988
You have no context from which to approach hip-hop, you simply know nothing about what you're talking about. This is equivalent to watching a violent scene from a foreign movie, without understanding the language, and then denouncing it as promoting violence.

You're also presuming why millions of rap listeners want to listen to rap. How can you claim to know that? That's not even mentioning it's not hard to find rap thats damn close to tears, a far cry from "aggressive and violent"

You're analogy doesnt work, because while no one would claim "video games are music," obviously video game music is music. You said yourself that they may be wonderfully crafted musical scores. If it was never put in a video game, it would be music, so if it was used, it doesn't magically stop being music. Similarly, Hip-hop isnt poetry, but if you take rap lyrics and out them on a piece of paper, those are poetry.

[T-Rack !!ZZOhLqXOxP2 No.3585027]

>>3585012

>Rap isn't art. Rap is a consumer product.

So are all books. And all movies. And all music. Weep over the monetary obsession, please don't scapegoat one genre.

>That does not matter. Today, in 2013, rap is a consumer product that sells an aggressive and violent beat track to those who think that testosterone-fueled profanity is cool.

This is like judging all film based off the Avengers.

Do yourself a favor and don't judge a whole lot of people and a whole lot of artistic merit based on the few samplings you pick up on /pol/ or wherever.

Here's a good track from October, 2012. Maybe rap died between then and now, 2013, I haven't really followed anything new.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZzowQDtxfQ

Coincidentally, you might be interested to know this album sold the most of any rap artist in 2012. The two violent songs on the album are there as a direct contrast to the rest of the album, as the whole thing literally follows the path of the lyricist from track 1s through 3 of being brash/aggressive/violent/stupid and his slow maturation.

Enjoy. Or don't and keep spouting wrong shit.

[Anonymous No.3585031]

>>3585004
Hip-hop never left. Joey Badass is stagnating hip-hop instead of pushing it into the future

[Anonymous No.3585037]

>>3585012
>That does not matter. Today, in 2013, rap is a consumer product that sells an aggressive and violent beat track to those who think that testosterone-fueled profanity is cool.

Every piece of art exists as an attempt to get more sex, more money or more dominating status

[Anonymous No.3585048]

>>3585027
>Coincidentally, you might be interested to know this album sold the most of any rap artist in 2012. The two violent songs on the album are there as a direct contrast to the rest of the album, as the whole thing literally follows the path of the lyricist from track 1s through 3 of being brash/aggressive/violent/stupid and his slow maturation.
You miss the point again. Hip-hop, as an industry, does not exist for people who listen to lyrics. Hip-hop, as an industry, exists to provide people with aggressive beats.

>Do yourself a favor and don't judge a whole lot of people and a whole lot of artistic merit based on the few samplings you pick up on /pol/ or wherever.
I'm not talking about artistic merit, I'm talking about intent.

>So are all books. And all movies. And all music. Weep over the monetary obsession, please don't scapegoat one genre.
I'm not weeping over consumerism. I'm merely defining what rap is: an industry that churns out musical records with aggressive beats.

Books and movies are also an industry, but the product they're selling is a bit more complex and differentiated than that sold by the rap industry.

[Anonymous No.3585050]

>>3585031
It arguably left the mainstream for a while, at least in my country. Rap never really did sadly. Fucking pitbull.

Anyways, I'd be interested to know how Joey is causing this stagnation? The beats on 1999 sound pretty fresh to me.

[Anonymous No.3585062]

The truth is: neither are poetry.

The top poem has pretensions to poetry on which it will fall back, such as the metre it employs and the underlying amorphous questions concerning whether eating an asshole is disgusting when already engaged in the eating of flesh (so aesthetic and ethical questions). Really, there's not much there so. Quasi-poetic at best.

Rap is not poetry because its metaphors are trite. It can have nice rhythm, and occasionally can say something poetic. A good lyric it might be, but that doesn't make it poetry.

[T-Rack !!ZZOhLqXOxP2 No.3585066]

>>3585050

It's a mixtape. Beats aren't his.

>>3585048

>You miss the point again. Hip-hop, as an industry, does not exist for people who listen to lyrics. Hip-hop, as an industry, exists to provide people with aggressive beats. I'm not talking about artistic merit, I'm talking about intent.

You're looking at hip hop industry and business and defining hip hop culture on it. Hip hop is not the business practices that abuse it, it's a distinct cultural movement. Again, I hate to belittle an argument when you keep being nice enough to respond but I think you are just not very acquainted with the subject. If you think hip hop = the business and don't recognize the distinct anti-corporatism that exists among most label artists, you're not equipped for this discussion.

>I'm not weeping over consumerism. I'm merely defining what rap is: an industry that churns out musical records with aggressive beats.

You're defining an element in the music industry, involving the lyrical presentation of rap, in the hip hop culture/genre. That's all.

Again, talking about Odd Future, Waka flocka, whatever, there's tons of shitty artists I can use that strictly market "cool" sounding things and lyricism takes a back seat. That's not the entire industry, because there are intelligent minded listeners whos INTENT is to find reflection. The biggest initiator of this to the mainstream was arguably the "Resurrection" album by Common, check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C99iG4HoO1c

Cinema, as an industry, exists to provide people with cool action scenes <----------- is like what you are saying

[Anonymous No.3585099]

>>3585037
>Every piece of art exists as an attempt to get more sex, more money or more dominating status
I want to get this tattoo'd on my back.

[Anonymous No.3585100]

>>3585066
Hey man, you seem pretty clued up on this whole thing. Can I get some album recommendations from you?

[T-Rack !!ZZOhLqXOxP2 No.3585105]

>>3585100

You got a particular taste or aim? Need something more specific! Even if you just want some broad essentials gotta get a feel for you or you might end up landing on ones that'll leave a bad taste

I'm getting sleepy so if I'm not here when you respond, this /mu/ pic is actually pretty good. Row 3 might have some of the best albums to "start" with if you're new to hip hop, as well as row 1. If you're not new, hopefully there's some stuff on here you haven't listened to

[Anonymous No.3585114]

>bunch of plebs arguing whether hip hop is poetry
>2013: still saying rap is shit cause it's edgy
>the idea of poetry by a specific population for a specific population going through a specific experience flies over their head
>the idea that some who haven't gone through this specific experience might appreciate this music simply because it speaks to something there
>still of the mind that the world should operate based on their standards
>finds comfort in arbitrary boxes
>not aware of the fact that it's easy to shit on hip hop because it's such a wide and diverse genre and doing that is like saying novels sucks cause Tao Lin and alt lit
>no rapper was even rapping for you anyway
>and those that do, you wont give a chance 'cause you're cozy in your bubble


"They say the game has the belly of a beast
Blunts for fingers and hollow tips for teeth
Wire taps for ears, Nike Airs for feet
Blasphemy for prayers a system for a heart
Rap music for beats heroin for a son and he's married to the streets, crack pipes for lungs, and he never sleeps just spies with dice in his eyes
Loves life cause he like when it dies
With a baking soda soul he cough up pleasure
Clothes made out of dollar bills that he sewed together, he knows he's clever
Jail is his house, all the liquor that pours out and goes right in his mouth
Rides around on a stray bullet
With prostitute, pimp, dope dealers and killers tied to it to pull it
TV in his head, strippers slide down his legs
And he known to ride around with the Feds
He's out there, out there, out there, out there."

Forgive me for having lived a life where this whispers directly into a hole in my heart.

Please don't knock an entire genre because you've got a bunch of edgy white shit-eating faggish friends that listen to it and think it makes them hard.

That's the epitome of being a close-minded simpleton faggot and you will be remembered only for that feigned recalcitrance and the stank desperation hidden underneath.

Just like us all.

#SWAG

[Anonymous No.3585119]

>>3585114

Ahem.

“The human mind is generally far more eager to praise and dispraise than to describe and define. It wants to make every distinction a distinction of value; hence those fatal critics who can never point out the differing quality of two poets without putting them in an order of preference as if they were candidates for a prize.”
C.S. Lewis, The Four Loves

Plebs, all of you.

[Anonymous No.3585123]

>>3585119

Niggas say I'm pussy? I dare you to stick your dick in this.
If I was pussy I'd be filled with syphilis,
herpes, gonorrhoea, chlamydia, gettin' rid of ya.


>Ya'll niggas always rustle my jimmies.

[Anonymous No.3585169]

>>3585114
Whose bars are those?

[Anonymous No.3585189]

>>3585169

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SjW8tGtjvc

Lupe.

Second verse, 0:55 if you want to skip to it.

[Anonymous No.3585191]

Hey /lit/ is shoes toast?

[Anonymous No.3585227]

>>3584389
>>3584420

do you like action bronson?

[Anonymous No.3585236]

ITT wiggers trying to justify their hipster-hop as poetry

There is a difference between a lyricist occaisionally saying something poetic and actual poetry.When hip-hoppers stop writing mediocre verses about some pretentious pop-philosophy topic, perhaps it their work will qualify as poetry.
Not to say that there weren''t talented individuals who would have flourished if they pursued poetry rather than rap, but they knew where the money was and made the right decision.
I've tried listening to contemporary hipster-hop and it's very pretentious and pseudo-intellectual. One of the great advantages that rap had over poetry as a medium was that it was incredibly raw and honest. Thats not as true anymore, from my subjective point of view anyway.
inb4
>listen to kendrick lamar, jay electronica or some other painfully overrated hipster
they're good compared to their peers, but not revolutionary and definitely not poets.

[Anonymous No.3585278]

>Oh my god Frank Ocean totally changed hip-hop and poetry by coming out as gay

Reality: Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman is better in every single way

>Oh my god Tupac really struggled against the system and changed the way we write about hip-hop

Reality: Vladimir Mayakovsky wrote street poetry fro the soviet masses hundred times better and more controversial, eventually he rose against the soviet system and "committed" suicide because of his art

>Oh my god Kanye West totally writes new shit about consumerism and depravity

Reality: Oscar Wilde, Fitzgerald etc...

>Oh my god 50 cent is so thug and dangerous

Reality: Even the Iliad has more graphic descriptions of death than 50 cent lyrics

Thats the truth about hip-hop. But in a narrow context of 20 years it's new. But in reality whatever subject they have dealt with, it has already been dealt with a hundred years earlier, in a more provocative way, more courageously, with better aestehetics, it's better in every single way.

You just can't outrun that fact. The hip-hop is a very low form of art.

[Anonymous No.3585279]

>>3585278
Unless, you add, "They're black" into the mix.

[Anonymous No.3585281]

>>3585236

Funny how nobody ever tries to define poetry or say anything other than

>this didn't resonate with me so it's not poetry.

Do you often sit down and wonder why some people don't have the same tastes as you and consider it a failure of the world?

[Anonymous No.3585300]

>>3585278

Would you consider the same line of reasoning to be applicable to chinese, indian, persian, or any other poetry pinned on top of music?

Since there are people who've done what they've attempted but better, the aforementioned attempts aren't poetry?

Or is it simply because hip hop is a contemporary construct?

It seems to me like you're just shitting on hip hop because you consider the culture that spawned it to be crass and irredeemable.

[Anonymous No.3585303]

>>3585300
It seems to be that the subject at hand is hip-hop, and that was what I discussed. It also seems like you're trying to lay words and meanings in my mouth that I do not share.

1/10

[Anonymous No.3585304]

Lyrics are distinct from poetry. That's not a value judgement, just a fact about the form.

[Anonymous No.3585306]

If faggots like Ginsberg are considered poetry, then I don't see why someone like Nas shouldn't be.

[Anonymous No.3585314]

>>3585062
>Rap is not poetry because its metaphors are trite. It can have nice rhythm, and occasionally can say something poetic. A good lyric it might be, but that doesn't make it poetry.
Poetry is literally any rhythmic text, you fucktard. 'Metaphors' have nothing to do with being poetry. Fuck, are you people _really_ that ignorant?

[Anonymous No.3585320]

If it's poetry, it's not particularly good poetry.

[Anonymous No.3585323]

>>3585320

That's perfectly understandable, it doesn't fucking resonate with you, that isn't a difficult concept to wrap your head around.

[Anonymous No.3585321]

>>3585303

I genuinely asked, I didn't mean to lay anything on you at all, though I suppose I was leading.

The "it seems" is a subjective observation.

>>3585304

So wtf is lyric poetry you slimy pedant?

[Anonymous No.3585355]

>>3585062
>Rap is not poetry because its metaphors are trite.
>2013
>making ignorant blanket statements about the literary devices utilized in an entire form of expression
Shiggydiggy.

[Anonymous No.3585360]

>>3585323
No, it's just from the ways available to judge poetry, it just isn't good poetry. It isn't just about "resonating" it's about form, structure, rhytme, choice of words, themes, depth how "new" and profound it is.

And most rap (if we generalize) lacks in all those categories.

[Anonymous No.3585363]

>imblying this isn't poetry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzbtZ1LItxg

[Anonymous No.3585368]

>>3584341
yes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEOKgjoxoto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJOp1CqzaSg

[Anonymous No.3585394]

Many other music genres have lyrics too, you know

[Anonymous No.3585450]

>>3585394
Aye, but none focus on lyrics as much as rap does.

[Anonymous No.3585452]

>>3585450
lol wut

[Anonymous No.3585455]

>>3585363
Man, thanks for that. Not exactly poetry, but a good beat.

also
>>>/mu/

[Anonymous No.3585458]

>>3585368
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEOKgjoxoto
Sheeeeeeet

[Anonymous No.3585465]

>>3585452
No other genre I can think of has battles that rely on how fast people can think up new lines.

[Anonymous No.3585472]

It's that millenium ridiculous flow, I never let go
Niggaz getting knocked out is part of my show
Let 'em know who they fuckin with yo, a rhyme wrangler
Tri-angular push-up the hillside strangler
Dangle a, nigga by the ankle off the balcony
Now let his punk ass go, look out below
It's a tale of two cities, come out when the sun go down
We officially not fuckin around
Stuck in the ground, fitted with a suit in a pine box
with my fresh pressed khakis in a slingshot
So heatbox all day in a nigga face
and all you bitches see the dick that you shoulda ate
Call it what you wanna call it
I'm a fucking alcoholic.
Bring it if you really want it
Ain't gotta put no extras on it.

[Anonymous No.3585480]

>>3585465
The entire greek foundation of epic poetry was formed on poetry competitions?

[Anonymous No.3585484]

>>3585480
Music genre neffew

[Anonymous No.3585489]

>>3585484
Greek poetry was sung and accompanied by music.

Your "brothers" are two millennia behind in their art form. And worse.

[Anonymous No.3585491]

>>3585465
Some jazz and folk do this. A lot of indie bands drastically overhaul or change lyrics

[Anonymous No.3585493]

>>3585360

IIP: Some bourgeoisie faggot's reaction to lumpenprole poetry.
>Now won't that stir up some controversy?


And yet methods of judging poetry or any art really are constantly evolving and shifting and finding new shapes, ignoring the fact that all these methods are diverse as fuck in the first place and exceptionally contextual. And how does it lack in those categories which are all subjective and related, almost a sibling, to how well that use of a device resonates? Can you truly back up that statement even without differentiating? You sure you haven't just been lumping together every sample of hip hop you've ever heard with the taste of sour vinegar
in your mouth?

If anything at all, to take away hip hop's contribution to rhyme, diction, and theme is intellectually dishonest if you consider it within its context and actually seek out examples versus actively trying to simplify it because you don't like its sound.

Hip Hop is constantly playing with all those qualities of poetry, just in a way that resonates with one group of people and doesn't resonate with another group of people. Like I said, this isn't a difficult fucking concept.

>The world's becoming more and more diverse everyday. Does that frighten you?

Also, if we generalize we're not fucking getting to the truth, it's just a surface examination, particularly daft because you probably don't know the first thing about hip hop, and why should you?

Though you really need some color in your life, but it's probably much more comfortable without.

>“The human mind is generally far more eager to praise and dispraise than to describe and define. It wants to make every distinction a distinction of value; hence those fatal critics who can never point out the differing quality of two poets without putting them in an order of preference as if they were candidates for a prize.”

[Anonymous No.3585498]

>>3585493
>particularly daft because you probably don't know the first thing about hip hop, and why should you?
>doesn't know the first thing about poetry and claims that knowing anything about poetry doesn't even matter
>insinuate racism because anon tells them he doesn't consider rap on par with 2000 year old poetic tradition

How is that logic going for you? Keep that cultural relativism, going strong thug brotha.

[Anonymous No.3585511]

>>3585278
>hip-hop is a very low form of art.

I can understand your argument, but to just say that might be wrong. Hip-hop isn't a low form of art, it's a different form of art, different from poetry. Sure, they have some common ground, but I think it's erroneous to assume they're indentical and therefore comparable.

I consider, for example, some portuguese rappers true poets, with the subjects that they approach, their formal estructure and their constant playing with the possible meaning and deconstrution of words. But hey, no one cares

[Anonymous No.3585515]

>>3585498

>insinuate racism
lol what?

if you're referring to the color bit, I meant nuance, not black dicks.

>cultural relativism is bullshit

Hohoho, I was expecting that card to be played quite a while back. Good on you mate.

>doesn't know the first thing about poetry
Now why would you say that?

[Anonymous No.3585525]

>>3585278
>those comparisons
>ranking art forms
Hahahaahahaaha

[Anonymous No.3585568]

>>3585278
If you think that 50 Cent is a good example of hip hop, you really shouldn't have anything to say about the matter. That's like rating all of literature based on Eragon.

[Anonymous No.3585583]

Vast Aire [from Cannibal Ox's "Iron Galaxy"]

[EL-P:] And if there's crack in a basement
Crack heads stand adjacent
Anger displacement
From food stamp arrangements
You were a still born baby
Mother didn't want you, but you were still born
Boy meets world, of course his pops is gone
What you figure
That chalky outline on the ground is a father figure?
So he steps to the next stencil, that's a hustler
Infested with money and diamond cluster
Lets talk in laymen terms
Rotten apples and big worms
Early birds and poachers
New York is evil at it's core, so those who have more than them
Prepare to be victims
Ate up by vultures, the politicians
In a dog eat dog culture, that'll sick 'em
Lack of mineral, we take it personal
A pigeon can't drop shit if it never flew
Every day is no frills, empty krills
Broken 40 bottles and MCs with skills
I rest my head on 115
But miracles only happen on 34th, so I guess life is mean
And death is the median
And purgatory is the mode that we settle in
No doubt
I've got that Eve's Bayou sense of touch
So I fought, to touch every hand of a fan to read their thoughts
Battered wives, molested children
Roaches on the floor, rats in the ceiling
Cats walk around New York with two fillings
One is in their mouth the other does the killing
I'm Vast Aire, Kramer, top billing

[Anonymous No.3585608]

>>3584341

sucky lyrics. here's some kendrick

Sometimes I look in a mirror and ask myself
Am I really scared of passing away
If it's today I hope I hear a
Cry out from heaven so loud it can water down a demon
With the holy ghost till it drown in the blood of Jesus
I wrote some raps that make sure that my lifeline
Rake in the scent of a reaper, ensuring that my allegiance
With the other side may come soon
And if I'm doomed, may the wound
Help my mother be blessed for many moons
I suffer a lot
And every day the glass mirror get tougher to watch
I tie my stomach in knots
And I'm not sure why I'm infatuated with death
My imagination is surely an aggravation of threats
That can come about
Cause the tongue is mighty powerful
And I can name a list of your favorites that probably vouch
Maybe cause I'm a dreamer and sleep is the cousin of death
Really stuck in the scheme of, wondering when I'mma rest

[Anonymous No.3585625]

>>3585525
That's the point, though: he was responding to the people who claimed that hip-hop belonged to the same art form as those other authors he mentioned.

[The Importance of Being On Time and Being !dAqyKvNZuA No.3585640]

>logical discussion
>'poetry' as rigorously-defined category

i'm sure /pol/ has come in or will at some point so the rest of this thread can p much be summed up with
>niggers are stupid
>all hip-hop is stupid/made for stupid people/mass consumption
>muh Petrarchan sonnet form
>muh philosophical themes
etc.

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11985
http://www.complex.com/music/2011/12/michael-boyd-says-jay-z-nas-and-eminem-are-the-inheritors-of-shakespeare
^michael boyde namedrop jay-z, nas, and eminem as a contemporary examples of poets

this thread is always shit but i've never seen those links posted so there they are
btw it's got nothing to do w/ old-school vs. new-school or underground or whatever
billy woods is pretty mediocre imo
/thread

[Anonymous No.3585643]

>>3585625
Whoosh.

This topic is now about lyrics.

[Anonymous No.3585646]

I worked hard for this when y'all half-assed it
Raise the white flag matter of fact half mast it
Half this rap shit that you hear is half plastic
The other human half is a lying ass bastard
Fake biters like dentures
Writing their bios based on someone elses adventures
I be confusing the censors with the shit that I speak
Cause they don't know if its some shit they should bleep
They're like damn that's the fifth time this week
That I've witnessed a sheet of lyrics from this geek
On my desk for inspection
To bleep or not to bleep is an excellent question
These words have yet to receive Webster's attention
Spanish Webster is still fuckin' with the gender
Only point I'm trying to make is give them something to remember
Whether spittin' on the microphone or strummin' on the fender
These kids get mixed up like cummin' in a blender
Same goes for you lame trolls blogging
I would recommend less dick riding and more jogging
You at your computer that's sippin' your super big gulp
Eating little Debbie snacks and newtons full of fig pulp
I'm talkin' to you its sunny out enjoy it
That bicycle you purchased was like money down the toilet
Yo its funny how steroided your confidence seems
When the last time you got laid hipsters were rocking big jeans
2Pac was in his teens
Variations of the running man were popular routines
Little Nas was up in queens-- it ain't hard to tell
He was still busy watching the smurfs battle Gargamel
Fuck it I just keep rappin' great
Outside of the box like you used cheap packin' tape
Try again there's no time to waste
Just make sure the drawing board you go back to is dry erase
That shit you sharpie ain't gonna ever be sharper
Unless that magic marker is an actual magical marker
Even then it'd have to have a good battery charger
Because I've been rapping since Eric Clapton was back with the Yardbirds
I wish you the best of luck
If ya'll agree with me that most rappers suck
Then make like a rake on the back of a landscaping truck
And stand the fuck up

[Anonymous No.3585650]

>>3585646

This one oughtta rustle some jimmies.

>you call this poetry?
>there's nothing novel there
>that's just an embellishment of him talking shit
>Jonathan Swift was infinitely better at embellishing his shit talking.
>case and point, rap aint poetry

I love ya'll niggas.

[Anonymous No.3585664]

Why does it matter if it is? Do you really need to justify your appreciation of a music genre by telling yourself the song writers are poets? There's more than enough bad poetry to go around. If you want to lump your "hip hop" in with it, then by all means, do so. Personally, I'd rather just appreciate it as a form of music.

[Anonymous No.3585716]

I suppose you could call all rap poetry to an extent. You just need to make a distinction between vain or uninspired rap and creative and linguistically colorful rap.

Personally, I consider anything by Aesop Rock an example of rap as a viable form of poetical expression.

'January, I fell to the cobblestone
In April, I cut little paper flowers
In August, I drank cold tea all my lonesome
In October, I was introduced to scourers
I love New York Saturdays
But Mondays last longer
And since I plan to live a long life
Maybe I'll serve a thousand Mondays and swallow the burn
To merge the week for all its got
To get my shoddy rotten ribs stick, forgot my ribs
I got a lil' something called a spirit crisis on my skull
And it's nothing short of ferocious but I swallowed the dosage
I got a mantle, and the mantle is a candle
And my candle is a flame that burns to symbolize the day Gretel met Hansel
Then I settle in a stand still
I live forever reaching for the sun
Hoping some lucky day I'll clutch and get a handle
Rope ladder, I'm a swinging anvil
And I wanna turn scallies and summings with pretty lullaby, bye
The way my gypsy dances makes a monster retreat to fetal
I never felt so damn young
But you don't look a day over zero
And you don't look a day in its eyes cuz it'll make you realize
The night is near so
Well then go, dream, I clean around the edges
I tidy up the tabletop, and lectured all the pledges
I never really knew the true definition of precious
Till my angel wit the beautiful red locks gave me the message
I'm a fully animated life tree
See the root of the mute button was dug up bug up on a song
Of I'm a fully animated life tree
With branches for the heavens to admire actually.'

[Anonymous No.3585717]

>>3585646
>Wax
Yeah this isn't bad for a another rapper dissing people and being semi-clever, but I don't think it's a very good example of rap as poetry (or good poetry, that is)

[Mosin Nagant !!QOq1IgGKCg8 No.3585740]

If this isn't poetry then poetry must be absolutely terrible.

[Mosin Nagant !!QOq1IgGKCg8 No.3585742]

>>3585740
More specifically,

Thieves in the Night

"Give me the fortune, keep the fame," said my man Louis
I agreed, know what he mean because we live the truest lie
I asked him why we follow the law of the bluest eye
He looked at me, he thought about it
Was like, "I'm clueless, why?"
The question was rhetorical, the answer is horrible
Our morals are out of place and got our lives full of sorrow
And so tomorrow comin later than usual
Waitin' on someone to pity us
While we findin beauty in the hideous
They say money's the root of all evil but I can't tell
YouknowhatImean, pesos, francs, yens, cowrie shells, dollar bills
Or is it the mindstate that's ill?
Creating crime rates to fill the new prisons they build
Over money and religion there's more blood to spill
The wounds of slaves in cotton fields that never heal
What's the deal?
A lot of cats who buy records are straight broke
But my language universal they be recitin my quotes
While R&B singers hit bad notes, we rock the boat
of thought, that my man Louis' statements just provoked
Caught up, in conversations of our personal worth
Brought up, through endangered species status on the planet Earth
Survival tactics means, bustin gats to prove you hard
Your firearms are too short to box with God
Without faith, all of that is illusionary
Raise my son, no vindication of manhood necessary

[Anonymous No.3585769]

I walked into a life of tainted dreams and gumball machines
Nestled between the window seat and the drain of the main stream
Watching chaotic daylight stands thermal horizons table
Mock the moon with liquidated stars lapped from a ladle
Looking glass has limited view when you're trapped in a label
Still born turned action figures when their stacked in a cradle
Thorough bred disorientated from running laps in a stable
Loss of direction sparks the search for a map in the fable
Leave me to hunt for scavenges with eye patches and peg legs
Use planks to punish perpetrators so the seas will stay fed
I told that snake in the grass to roll over and play dead
When the seed of the righteous is planted in belly of hybrid companion
They fled with torn a silver spoon and lips grasped
Cherishing the John Hancock or some jock on your hips clasped
Fine your own only path this is my territory to tell a story
Tailored in three pieces flag, oxygen and thesis
I'm nursed by the bosom of a Columbus compass
Since birth walking the line of life of rhyme to see which will die first
It took me awhile to realize the fact that I'm cursed
With the given gift of anointing so only the truth can be dispersed.

[Anonymous No.3585774]

>>3585769
Now the trees are more beautiful on this side of the mountain
Plush springs run in abundance I drink direct from the fountain
But the dream was opaque the stream was perfectly clear
That an acute disorder of paradise would exist if I die here
So lie down your pitch forks and raise your pins to the clouds
Till their struck twice by lightning sparking styles to move crowds
Fish in the pond can't understand the concept of dry land
So they swim aimlessly unbeknown to the purpose of which I stand
Don't ask a question, if you don't want the answer given
Time is an illustrious liquor if the candle ceases to flicker
Driven to a life of constant death no choice but one
Children rise from the shine hide in the shade to evade the rays of the sun
Glaciers become oceans and boulders become bevels
Icons become gods and the birth of a spawn is the birth of a devil
Individual once realized is the birth of a rebel
When I've dug my own depth in your faith rest in a shovel
The pedestal is crowed over bearing with trinkets a silver lined sink
Which drown me in sounds of de-evolution and if it's not your calling to be en-laced with the evolving of hip-hop
Then stop is the inevitable solution

--Illogic, "Celestial Clockwork"

[Anonymous No.3585781]

>>3585717

Yea, I actually posted that to be a dick. Apologies.

Here's something more serious.

Talib Kweli

From the intro you know I'm so influential
cause I'm glowing like a kindle
The focus is so essential dog,
what you tryna get into?
I steady the flow, ready to blow
like snotty tissue
They snitching like Donnie Brasco,
I'm counting like Monte Cristo
The ghetto full of betrayal
like Iago and Othello
Your fellow neighbor will slay you,
they'll smoke you like cigarillos
Police, want that info,
they'll grill 'em like Portobellos
I'm murdering instrumentals
cause I rap with the conscience
Of felons, killers and monsters,
so revealing and honest
We're still feeling the promise,
some nights I kill 'em with kindness
Hitting like Muhammad Ali,
you more like Tatiana
All this is probably Karma,
you dishonored the father
Whether it's God almighty,
or the almighty dolla
We follow the prophets like
Islamics or the Dalai Lama
Your bullet points so hollow
they could probably pierce body armor
Look in the scope, my people still a target

[Anonymous No.3585797]

Why does this thread always turn into "post shitty rap lyrics itt"?

[Anonymous No.3585801]

What do you guys think of eminem? And songs like stan, infinite and sing for the moment.

[Anonymous No.3585811]

>>3585797

>Why does a thread about poetry turn into a thread about posting said poetry?

Because your father touches you at night.

[Anonymous No.3585814]

You Americans invest way too much times sniffing each others' assholes.

[Anonymous No.3585819]

Easy, OP.

Poetry is meant to be read.

Lyrics is meant to be sung, rapped, with music.

You're welcome. Poetry doesn't need music, it is its own music.

Most lyrics wouldn't survive without music.

[Anonymous No.3585840]

>>3585801

>Not his best work but fairly relevant.

See I'm a poet to some, a regular modern day Shakespeare
Jesus Christ the King of these Latter Day Saints here
To shatter the picture in which of that as they paint me
as a mother of hate, Satan and scatter-brained atheist
But that ain't the case, see it's a matter of taste We as a people decide if Shady's as bad as they say he is
Or is he the ladder, a gateway to escape
Media scapegoat, they can be mad at today
See it's as easy as cake, simple as whistling Dixie
while I'm wavin the pistol at sixty Christians against me
Go to war with the Mormons, take a bath with the Catholics
in holy water no wonder they try to hold me under longer
I'm a motherfuckin spiteful, delightful eyeful
The new Ice Cube, motherfuckers hate to like you
What did I do? (huh) I'm just a kid from the gutter
makin' this butter off these bloodsuckers.

Eminem is an exceptional poet and his mainstream success takes little away from that.

[Anonymous No.3585846]

>>3585811

>Why does a thread about poetry turn into a thread about posting said poetry?

Where is that thread? I need to rinse the taste of all this terrible hip hop "lyricism" out of my mouth.

[Anonymous No.3585850]

>>3585814
>>3585819

>europoors here to "save the day" with their haughtiness and ill-founded sense of superiority

lyric (n.)
"a lyric poem," 1580s, from Middle French lyrique "short poem expressing personal emotion," from Latin lyricus "of or for the lyre," from Greek lyrikos "singing to the lyre," from lyra (see lyre). Meaning "words of a popular song" is first recorded 1876. Related: lyrics.

>ya'll niggas.

[Anonymous No.3585865]

>>3585819
>Poetry is meant to be read.

[Anonymous No.3587035]

>>3585801
>Infinite
I didn't like that album