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3553397 No.3553397 [Reply] [Original]

Is religious experience valid?

>> No.3553402

yes

>> No.3553400
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3553400

All experience is valid.

>> No.3553408

its impossible for something to not matter in some way.

>> No.3553404

why wouldn't it be?

>> No.3553409

What do you mean by "religious experience"?

Something like communion or your bar mitzvah? Or do you mean finding Mary's face on a stickie bun?

>> No.3553411

oh yeah

>> No.3553416

Well that would depend on whether the religion was true or not, wouldn't it? What do you think anon?

>> No.3553418

>>3553408
>>3553404
>>3553402
>>3553400


I'm actually shocked by how few edgy fourteen year old atheists are on /lit/ right now.

>> No.3553420

>>3553408
What you didn't neglect to say is not less untrue than what you didn't not overtly state.

>> No.3553423

I'm going to go ahead and say no. Any feeling of the spiritual you have is not valid for making life decisions based on that feeling.

You just have to recognize you've plecebo'd yourself into ascribing divine presence or nature to an experience, and it can't go further than that.

>>3553418
Don't worry, I'll fulfill the "edgy fourteen year old atheist" thing if nobody else will.

>> No.3553427

>>3553416
obviously they believe it, or else it wouldn't be religious

>> No.3553431
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3553431

>>3553397
No experience is valid.

>> No.3553432

>>3553423

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it makes you an edgy fourteen year old atheist to answer no to the question.

I'm saying it makes you an edgy fourteen year old atheist if you immediately start going "GOD IS A DELUSION FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER STUPID FUCKING CHRISTIANS STORYBOOK THE BIBLE IS A FAIRY TALE YOU GUYS BELIEVE IN A MAGIC SKY MAN THAT GRANTS ALL YOUR WISHES, etc".

>> No.3553429

>>3553423

I'm going to disagree, as an advocate of the spiritual path. I think the divine presence is exactly that.

>> No.3553435

>>3553418
I'm an atheist, but if it gives the individual a sense of purpose or fulfillment then I really don't give a shit

>> No.3553436

>>3553427
Just because they believe it doesn't mean it's true. inb4 subjectivism

I'm out.

>> No.3553439

Edit:

Can religious experience, perhaps not prove per se, but rather be an inclination towards belief in a deity?

>> No.3553441
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3553441

tell me why belief in religion is acceptable while religious hatred of the religious isn't

>> No.3553442

>>3553427

I'm not saying if they believe it or not, I'm saying if it's actually true. Although I guess even then it would depend on what you mean by "valid", so nevermind.

>> No.3553447

>>3553441

Because many religions uphold values that other humans view as positives. Hate is not one of those values.

>> No.3553459

>>3553439
that really depends on what you could say is religious

if you narrowly escape death you could attribute that to god or your adrenal glands
if you did the former, then yes, but that doesn't make it true

>> No.3553461

>>3553397
Of course it is

>> No.3553464

>>3553462
>hate has been viewed as positive by plenty of cultures, even ours today depending on the context
that doesn't make it correct

>> No.3553462
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3553462

>>3553447
hate has been viewed as positive by plenty of cultures, even ours today depending on the context
and if you're just going to say "other people like religious people and atheists smell bad and wear fedoras" that's fine but people should make it clear that their objection to atheism is based on this weird internet self-flagellation trend rather than any real philosophical objection.

PEACE

>> No.3553466

>>3553439
That's a better question.

Obviously it gives you an inclination towards belief in a diety, that's just a fact. Should it though? Well I look at it like this:

For it to give a valid inclination towards a diety, it would have to be acceptable as valid evidence. I'm pretty sure we don't except emotions as evidence for anything BUT spirituality, and I don't see why spirituality should be exempt from our normal rules. Just because you feel something doesn't mean it's a rational, useful feeling.

>> No.3553470

>>3553464
his reasoning for the entire argument was "other people think so"
do you even read???? Lol

>> No.3553471

didn't wittgenstein prove that it isn't

>> No.3553476

>>3553439
yes. if you had an experience that struck you as religious you would assumedly believe in some deity at that point

>> No.3553480
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3553480

in conclusion: atheism is bad because teenage atheists make people feel bad with image macros of neil degrasse tyson calling them faggots, but religion is okay because it doesn't.

>> No.3553501

Expanding even further:

From the viewpoint of someone who has never had a religious experience, should said person be inclined to belief in a higher power because of testimony of religious experience?

>> No.3553504

>>3553501
no

>> No.3553505

>>3553501
no

>> No.3553521

>>3553501
>>3553504
>>3553505
Well I really hope these polls have been helpful in you making a decision in these matters, seeing as how /lit/ has no inclination to actually give you reasons why the believe what they believe.

>> No.3553528

>>3553521

I'm just trying to fish some atheist perspectives on the subject to cleanse my mind of the theist philosophy I've been required to read lately.

>> No.3553533

>>3553528
just say that god is a cop out

>> No.3553537

>>3553533

No, I wouldn't want to be a hypocrite.

>> No.3553538

>>3553537
what do you mean

>> No.3553540

>>3553528
Too bad apparently all of /lit/ also happen to be theists.

>>3553533
That's sort of a cop out.

>> No.3553545

>>3553538
see >>3553540

>> No.3553558

>>3553545
ah, but really it's not

god really is an easy way out
if something can't be explained you can say god did it, instead of dwelling on it
and, instead of 'creating yourself' from the ground up, you could just take up a religious dogma

>> No.3553560

>>3553558
God is an easy way out, but dismissing God as too easy of a solution is also an easy way out.

>> No.3553565

basically, not considering all of the infinite potential metaphysical frameworks is an easy way out

>> No.3553568

>>3553560
how so?
it's not like I'm just taking an absurdist view and saying that 'well I guess we can't ever know'

>> No.3553578

there's no easy way out

>>3553568
that's not what an absurdist would say

>> No.3553577

>>3553568
I mean, there's a legitimate chance there is some sort of diety. Or at least some chance of it. Dismissing it as a possibility because it would make life too easy is really just a too easy way to dismiss the possibility.

To really say "there is no God" you would need a long list of arguments that challenges the many arguments for God that people have come up with. Simply saying, "If God existed our existential choices would be too easy," is too easy of a way to dismiss God.

>> No.3553591
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3553591

>>3553577
There is no god
and even if there was it would not matter

>>3553578
>absurdism
>not the agnosticism of philosophy

>> No.3553600

>>3553591
>>the agnosticism of philosophy
not really. it just does away with the 'why question' entirely, which is pretty sensible all things considered