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/lit/ - Literature

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3552111 No.3552111 [Reply] [Original]

what is the most ethical thing to imagine whilst masturbating? I've become uncomfortable thinking of friends and acquaintances and porn is depressing for the most part.

>not literature, but the answer probably lies in there somewhere anyways

>> No.3552128

>masturbation
>ethics
you're doing life wrong

>> No.3552144

>>3552111
>not masturbating to the image of a white canvas
troglodyte

>> No.3552148

just because something makes you uncomfortable or depressed doesn't mean it's unethical

>> No.3552152

>>3552128
>>3552144
come on guys, this is just for my peace of mind. Play along and give me a suggestion from that angle please?

>> No.3552157

your gf. use the pics she sends you.

>> No.3552160

Yourself, in the mirror or imagined.

>> No.3552165
File: 15 KB, 180x247, 1358622228526.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3552165

>>3552157

>> No.3552172

>not literature, but the answer probably lies in there somewhere anyways

Sex stories depicting consensual sex in the missionary position for the single purpose of procreation.

>> No.3552176

I'm a feminist but when someone showed me bondage porn where a woman was being degraded, I became aroused.

Does that make me an immoral or evil person?

>> No.3552178

>>3552172
would it be okay if I just read an Anais Nin short story and whackadoodle to that?

>> No.3552180

wittgenstein

>> No.3552182

>>3552180
does he have nude pix

>> No.3552185

Why is it unethical?

>> No.3552186

>>3552180
wittgenstein looks absurdly like a professor I know, so that's a no.

>> No.3552190

>>3552178
I suppose. As far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as unethical masturbation.

>> No.3552191

>>3552176
makes you a hypocrite

>> No.3552198

>>3552190
What about masturbating on someone's face while they sleep

>> No.3552196

If you don't like porn, check out Hentai doujins. It's the good things about porn with the disgusting/depressing bits.

And when you get bored it's easier to find fucked up shit than with normal porn

>> No.3552202

I only watch amateur porn because the dead eyes of professional porn stars make me floppy. I can't help thinking about how traumatic their lives must have been.

>> No.3552205

>>3552196

there's nothing whatsoever about doujin culture that is not disgusting or depressing or both

>> No.3552213

>>3552190
What about masturbation to images of child sexual abuse, actual rape, etc.?

That is, one has taken steps to procure such images and thereby approves of such acts.

>> No.3552214

I just stopped masturbating because I got bored of it.
I only do it about once a week now when the urges build up.

>> No.3552221

Masturbating is unethical if you are orthodox Christian.

inb4 ethics incompatible with religion

>> No.3552223

>>3552205
"A real female of course, smells, is dirty… of course because it’s a human being, it has lots of things. So we have this anime, isn’t it clean and pretty?"

- World masturbation champion

>> No.3552225

>>3552213
that one thing doesn't necessarily imply the other

>> No.3552231

Fantasize about the sex you'd consider ethical, duh.

>> No.3552236

>>3552205
Yeah sure, but that's the culture. The majority of actual doujins aren't fucked up or bad, and it's preferable to watching some skank get her vagina torn open by an ugly white guy.

>> No.3552250

>>3552223

>AL: So actually, animators draw their ideal woman on celluloid?
>HA: It’s much easier. Characters in animation do not cheat. They do not let you go for another. Animation is on certain points, very close to the pornography industry. All your physical needs are met. You can watch different animations and find anything you desire.

--Interview with Hideaki Anno, May 1997 AnimeLand #32

>> No.3552256

>>3552236
I only watch porn with attractive guys, why do people watch porn with ugly guys, I don't get it, doesn't it gross people out

>> No.3552259

>>3552256

people are stupid and lazy and when all they want to do is jack it they become still more stupid and lazy

>> No.3552268

>>3552225
What do you mean?

If you keep such images, you accept the doing of such acts.

>> No.3552269

>>3552256
Sometimes you get porn with like 8 or 9/10 chicks and a 3 or 4/10 dude. Shit just happens.

>> No.3552285

>>3552268
i was being deliberately vague but since you got my point i see no reason to argue further

>> No.3552303

>>3552269

God knows there's enough pornography in this world that you don't need to settle for shit. Instead, join me on my noble quest to find video of two 10/10s making the two-backed beast. It's a solitary calling, but I find it noble.

>> No.3552568

>>3552285
Not an argument, I'm just genuinely interested into why that is isn't unethical?

>> No.3552598

>>3552568
i never said it wasn't unethical, but it is so only in the same way as voyeurism.

>> No.3552622

>>3552598
Oh ok, I was under the impression that you were:
>>3552190

Who said there was no such thing as unethical masturbation.

I don't think it is the same as voyeurism. Voyeurism involves the other party being watched, doing something they would ordinarily do. They know no different as a result of the person masturbating.

Rape, Child Sexual Abuse etc. are specific acts done against another party purely for sexual enjoyment. Huge difference imo.

>> No.3552634

>>3552622
we're not really talking about the act of rape or child sexual abuse, tho..

>> No.3552649

>>3552634
No we're talking about situations in which masturbation would be unethical, in which case masturbating to rape and child sexual abuse material could be argued to be unethical.

>> No.3552666

>>3552649
so the fact that it's a particularly unethical act that's being voyeurized makes it MORE unethical? I don't agree with that, though it certainly makes the situation a lot more sad

>> No.3552694

>>3552622
oh also understand that what I'm doing is applying the concept of consent to voyeurism the same way one would apply it to rape

>> No.3552710

>>3552152
I'm sorry but your question is just fucking stupid

>> No.3552727

>>3552666
I don't believe at any point I said it was MORE unethical. The point I was replying to was:
"there's no such thing as unethical masturbation" i.e. we are not talking in terms of degrees of how ethical something is, we are merely talking whether it is ethical or not.

Of course rape and child sexual abuse are unethical, the issue is whether masturbating to that is unethical.

>>3552694
Not sure what you mean by this. In both scenarios, there is no consent. However in the one there is a direct violation of a person for the pleasure of another.

>> No.3552735

it's the weirdest thing.
The more fucked up a fetish I fap to, the less guilty I feel. You should try it op.
I especially like fapping to LITERATURE

>> No.3552742

>>3552727
>"there's no such thing as unethical masturbation" i.e. we are not talking in terms of degrees of how ethical something is, we are merely talking whether it is ethical or not.

OK, that makes things easier.

>In both scenarios, there is no consent

Yeah, that's the idea.

>However in the one there is a direct violation of a person for the pleasure of another.

My point is that I consider both of them (IE watching someone have sex without their knowledge and looking at child porn) acts of voyeurism, which is unethical.

>> No.3552744
File: 25 KB, 270x285, lit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3552744

>> No.3552747

>>3552727
>However in the one there is a direct violation of a person for the pleasure of another.

Actually, just such a violation occurs in both scenarios

>> No.3552748

>>3552744
This is actually an interesting philosophical discussion. If you want to talk about literature, there's a good Don Quixote thread going, so post in that

>> No.3552749

Thoughts cannot be unethical

>> No.3552752

>>3552111
You need to master masturbation as a purely physiological thing, reaching the orgasm of no-mind therefore not Kantianily forced your deontolodick onto the hypothetics of another bean

>> No.3552755

Hey lit, wtf is this shit? Why would this thread get a single answer? C'mon.

soniamdis.jpg

>> No.3552757

>and porn is depressing for the most part

explain

>> No.3552758

pictures of naked ladies
hell, even paintings

>> No.3552764

>>3552757
it's a fucked up industry, man

>> No.3552766

Anime girls

Welcome to the master race

>> No.3552782

There is nothing whatsoever unethical about jerkin it to super fucked up anime porn

>> No.3552784

>>3552742
Well in that case it turns out we were on the same page in terms of disagreeing with the statement that 'there is no such thing as unethical masturbation'

As for the voyeurism thing I will have to disagree with you. Whilst I don't agree with voyuerism, supposing one's property has not been violated to facilitate it (e.g. drilling a hole into their wall or something), I don't think the act of watching someone who doesn't know they are being watched is unethical. They know no different and their property hasn't been violated so who cares. Maybe they should take better steps to ensure their privacy.

>>3552744
Ethics and Philosophy have always found a home in /lit/. This is one such discussion.

>> No.3552785

>>3552111

Masturbate to the act itself. You'll either become Sade or stop altogether.

>> No.3552786

>>3552172

1. Not funny
2. Was never funny

>> No.3552789

Give Corruption of Champions a try. The /tg/ approach.

>> No.3552790

>>3552111
Simple. Just masturbate to once or twice a week for health reasons. Do it when you'll be horny enough to get off without needing an object of desire merely by physical stimulation.

>> No.3552788

>>3552747
Note the use of the word DIRECT.

Direct: Grabbing someone and raping them.
Indirect: Watching them without them knowing.

>> No.3552794

>>3552785
>just realised I've become Sade some time ago.

>> No.3552796

>>3552111
Ask them for permission first.

>> No.3552804

>>3552784
Then, by your reasoning, what makes the act of looking at child porn unethical, if the child doesn't know?

>> No.3552808
File: 1.15 MB, 651x721, ragecomic.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3552808

>>3552111
Music is the finest.
If you do think of a another human focus on the warmth of their spirit rather than their dick/tits.

>> No.3552809

Animals, obviously

>> No.3552816

>>3552804
>http://human-stupidity.com/stupid-dogma/child-porn-witch-hunt/watching-child-pornography-victimizes-child-voodoo-science

What does make it unethical?

>> No.3552823

>>3552816
If you pirate it, nothing. If you pay for it in any way, you stimulate the child porn market and create incentive for more children to be abused. Freegan child porn consumption doesn't really harm anyone.

>> No.3552827

>>3552804
That's a bit of a non-sequitur; you've missed my line of reasoning.

A child is directly violated in the making of child pornography. Hence why I also included actual rape pornography as bad.

>> No.3552830

is it immoral to have immoral thoughts?

>> No.3552834

>>3552816
>>3552823
So you're saying we should let people do it without any intervention?

>> No.3552841

>>3552834
I should note that:
>>3552816
>>3552823

are not me, who is:
>>3552784
>>3552827
etc.

>> No.3552835

>>3552827
And you've missed my line of reasoning. I'm talking about the act of watching it, not the act of making it. These are entirely separate acts.

>> No.3552848
File: 240 KB, 1920x1080, a-clockwork-orange-original.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3552848

beethoven

>> No.3552851

>>3552111

imagination is the creation of new experience through inference of previous ones.

therefore, you need a wide range of experiences, through any kind of medium, for an exemplar imagination.


>tl;dr, go to /tg/, they will hook you up with vidya, shows, rpgs, and fapfiction.

>> No.3552859

>>3552835
But by watching it you are benefiting from the original harm done. That's my point.

You are merely focusing on consent. These issues do not work alone or independently of one another - you need to consider them as a whole. You can't have masturbation to child pornography without it being created in the first place.

There is no consent in any of them. My point is that in order to masturbate to child pornography, there must be some original violation of the subject.

There is no direct violation in voyuerism, subject to the preconditions I have mentioned (e.g. their property has not been violated).

>> No.3552865

>>3552176
It means you're part of an immoral and evil society which turns human life into a commodity. Choosing to be feminist puts you on the road to recovery.

>> No.3552868

>>3552764
That doesn't deter me from watching it.

If it really bothers you that much, try getting into hentai or something.

>> No.3552870

>>3552859
>You can't have masturbation to child pornography without it being created in the first place.

So the crux of your argument is that an act is unethical if one of its causes or conditions is unethical? I can't agree with that; historically, plenty of good has come out of bad, which, of course, is not justification for those bad things.

>(e.g. their property has not been violated)

Well, I'm a communist, so...

>> No.3552901
File: 25 KB, 211x237, 1360550025775.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3552901

>>3552111
>>3552111

>what is the most ethical thing to imagine whilst masturbating? I've become uncomfortable thinking of friends and acquaintances and porn is depressing for the most part.


>restricting your self interest with your arbitrary ideological spooks

>> No.3552910

>>3552870
Well this is veering into more Utilitarian territory.

A subsequent act MAY be unethical if its causes or conditions are unethical. Indeed there are situations where a 'bad' act maybe be justified by it's 'good' consequences; historically plenty good has come out of bad e.g. the US made use of medical information gained from the Japanese experiments done on POWS that effectively amounted to torture.

However note that at the time the US themselves (purportedly) did not commission such experiments on living prisoners to find such information.

The benefit in this particular situation is an individual's personal pleasure which imo does not justify the unethical act that is the violation of the child.

Essentially you are looking for an absolute rule in a world where there are few.

>> No.3552914

>>3552865
>>3552191
>>3552176

you guys are all faggots.

for one, hypocrisy in of itself does not necessarily make a point any less true (unrelated to the fact that i have my own objections to 'feminism').

for another, one of the most integral facets of having a fetish is the sense, conscious or otherwise, that it is 'bad' or 'taboo' is some way, and thus by then indulging in it (especially if you think youre trying not to at first) you tap into more fundamental existential desires for control, same factors are involved with thrillseeking, or obstinance/contrarianism.

>> No.3552920

>>3552834
No, I think it should be heavy punishment for any form of actual child pornography including possession of merely downloaded files, while at the same time using modern technology to create artificial childporn within a government regulated program to help the poor paedophiles to channel their desires in addition to psychiatric counseling and sterilisation just in case and voluntary castration receiving worthwhile benefits.

>> No.3552919
File: 336 KB, 1018x426, paintbrush.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3552919

>Be from /fit/ and /b/
>Decide to check out /lit/ because apparently it's a haven for intellectuals
>This thread
>God damnit /lit/ what the fuck is your issue
>masturbation+philosophy=literature hur durr

>> No.3552933

>>3552910
>A subsequent act MAY be unethical if its causes or conditions are unethical.

But not solely because the initial act is unethical, is my point.

>which imo does not justify the unethical act that is the violation of the child.

Yeah, I specifically said that the initial unethical act isn't justified, which may also apply to unethical medical research.

>Essentially you are looking for an absolute rule in a world where there are few.

Well.. yeah.

>> No.3552936

>>3552920
Punishment is unethical IMO. We should work towards rehabilitation.

>> No.3552962

>>3552933
>But not solely because the initial act is unethical, is my point.

Yes, which is essentially what I said. Though it was implied what I said was apart of some absolute rule here:
>>3552870

Either way it appears we've reached some for of conclusion.

>> No.3552965

>>3552962
*form of conclusion

>> No.3552969

>>3552962
You still don't think voyeurism is unethical, and that's not a happy conclusion for me

>> No.3552999

>>3552969
Ha well that's something you're going to learn to live with.

I should note that in most common law countries (Britain, Australia, etc.) and I presume it would be the same in the US, there is nothing illegal about watching someone without them knowing and masturbating to them. There is no legal right of privacy.

That's not to say its legality is determinative of the ethics of it, but often laws are informed by issues of ethics.

Oh I should also stress that I do not condone voyuerism nor would I like being watched. However my personal preference is a separate issue to it being 'ethical'.

>> No.3553017

>what is the most ethical thing to imagine whilst masturbating?

I honestly masturbate thinking of myself most of the time. I'm not gay, I'm just attractive and really want to fuck me. I jerk off while staring at my face in a mirror a lot, placing it on my bed and laying on my side so I can gaze into my big hazel eyes. It's probably not normal to have a crush on yourself.

>> No.3553024

>>3552999

Well, arguing that it's unethical by using child pornography as an example (it being something that everyone hates) is perhaps a good way to convince lawmakers that it should be illegal.

>> No.3553054

>>3552936
Impossible, just like turning gays straight. Of course unlike homosexuality paedophilia can't be accepted in any practising way so damage control is the most humane.

>> No.3553064

>>3553054
>just like turning gays straight.
It's only social conditioning. Despite 'gay gene' propaganda, it is reversible.

>> No.3553083

>>3553024
Hmm there's a lot more to the making of laws than whether it's ethical e.g. practicality, enforceabilty, public interest, public policy considerations, etc.

And speaking as a potential future law applier, your use of child pornography as an example has hardly convinced me why voyeurism should be made illegal.

>> No.3553087

>>3553017

'It puts the lotion in the basket.'

>> No.3553097

>>3553064

i dont think it behooves us to try and draw up dichotomous absolutes, like many things it seems certainly reasonable that ones heredity can predispose one to certain things, mentally, physically, or emotionally, and that upbringing and conditioning is also obviously a factor.

>> No.3553129

>>3553083
Well, do you have any problems with making it illegal?

>And speaking as a potential future law applier, your use of child pornography as an example has hardly convinced me why voyeurism should be made illegal.

The idea is that it's a violation in exactly the same way that looking at child pornography is a violation. I think I've demonstrated the logic in that, not that that really matters, I guess

>> No.3553137

I'm glad that we could have a polite discussion about ethics, though.

>> No.3553175
File: 164 KB, 706x1000, 1352788658630.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3553175

Hentai, clearly. It is the cleanest pleasure there is

>> No.3553218

>>3553129
>Well, do you have any problems with making it illegal?
Hmm there are too many issues at play. How do you prove someone has been watching you? Generally you won't have evidence if you catch someone watching you. Try filming them watching you? Then who's the voyeur? And you're arguably giving away your privacy in such a situation.

And generally speaking, at an individual level the law will generally step in to protect people where they have suffered a loss of some sort. What sort of loss has been suffered by someone having seen you naked or fucking?

I mean it potentially could still be illegal in spite of those issues I've mentioned off the top of my head, depending on how the law is framed, but also it is indirectly protected by a number of other legal principles (e.g. trespass i.e. someone violating your property or installing equipment to watch you as I mentioned before - you could sue them for that).

You have to see the flip side. Cars are meant to give way to pedestrians, but is it entirely the driver's fault if they hit someone who ran across a busy road without looking? Likewise, shouldn't people take steps to ensure their privacy (like closing curtains) rather than expecting the law to protect them?

>> No.3553220

>>3553218
Good points. I'll think about them. I'm not particularly educated or informed on these issues, as you might see

>> No.3553230

>>3552186
that'd be a yes for me, though.

>> No.3553243

>>3553220
That's ok. Legal crap aside, I guess my point is that whatever is ethical is a different question to what you like or dislike.

Even examining what is 'ethical' is an inherently subjective task. My view of ethics, whether I like or not, can be seen to be largely informed the liberal ideals that underpin the Western society I have been brought up in (see John Stuart Mill's "Harm Principle" for example).

But that's ok that you disagree. Such is the nature of discussing ethics between two people I guess.

>> No.3553249

>>3553243
*by the liberal ideals... etc.

>> No.3553251
File: 184 KB, 847x1200, as expected of such a cliche situation, but i guess it cant be helped.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3553251

>>3553175

this nigga knows whats up.

>> No.3553266

>>3553251
wow you can see her vagina in his eye that's so clever!!!! fuck the japan censors yeah!

>> No.3553271
File: 25 KB, 326x500, Story_of_the_Eye.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3553271

>>3553266
But would they ever show his eye in her vagina?

>> No.3553288

>>3553220
You didn't have my consent to see my posting. What penalty should be applied to you?

>> No.3553331

>>3552303
what's the closest you;ve found?

>> No.3553341

>>3553288
I don't believe in penalties, but I may require rehabilitation after reading your posts