/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.3534846]

What does /lit/ think of The Beat Generation?

[Anonymous No.3534850]

>amerifags

[Anonymous No.3534856]

Kerouac is an interesting, naive sort of tender hedonist saint that at times writes beautiful stuff. A real human bean. I like him a lot even though I sometimes feel embarrassed for him in a sort of protective way. Burroughs is an interesting and entertaining creaking old skeleton and while some of his poems are alright I generally dislike Ginsberg for his personality.

[Anonymous No.3534914]

>>3534856
What didn't you like about Ginsberg's personality?

[Anonymous No.3535050]

>>3534914
I dislike how he looks, talks, what he says, his attempts at spirituality, his hippyness, his path in life and that peculiar sort of jewishness. I'm no anti-semite, but there is a particular type of jewishness that I dislike. Sort of the american pseudo-intellectual non-Jewish jew thing or something. It's a delicate feel.

[Anonymous No.3535058]

>>3534850
Chill out, dude.

[Anonymous No.3535065]

when it comes to mediocrity, they can't be BEAT

[Anonymous No.3535075]

>>3534856
Oh, god... my sides...

Do you always express yourself like a fifth-rate imitation of a Oscar Wilde caricature?

As for the OP, I generally dislike Beat literature and have an especial disdain for the fawning cult that it has spawned. Ginsburg, however, had his moments of genius, though. But Kerouac, et al could be safely tossed into the garbage bin of history and nothing of value would be lost.

[Anonymous No.3535085]

>>3535075
Dude, you're an asshole.

[Anonymous No.3535087]

>>3535065
Thanks for the laugh, anon.

[Anonymous No.3535091]

>>3535075
>like a fifth-rate imitation of a Oscar Wilde caricature?
I'm trying to see it but I can't. Wanting for more opinions to see if I'm accidentally 2decadent4u or you're just projecting all kinds of things.

[Anonymous No.3535094]

>>3535085
2nding this.

[Anonymous No.3535097]

>>3535091

Man says you type like batty boi, bruv.

[Anonymous No.3535099]

>>3534846
I love the literature from the Beats. It captures a lot of great scenes of Boom America. I don't know if there were other scenes like them before but they appear to me be the first intellectual tradition amongst youth.
I think they provide alot of insight into the present condition of America too.

[Anonymous No.3535103]

The only worthwhile literature movement to have come out of America.

[Anonymous No.3535113]

>>3535091
You wish you were decadent. No, I only mean to say that your unfortunate tendency towards saccharine, over-flowery expression is laughable in the extreme. The way you write is like a person in their late teens or possibly early twenties who suddenly think themselves "erudite" or "intellectual" because they are now taking an AP lit course or maybe are beginning to attend an institution of higher learning and feel the need to impress others with their delusion by way of stilted prose that would have made Constance Garnett wince in embarrassment.

If I'm an asshole for pointing that truth out to you, so be it.

[Anonymous No.3535126]

>>3535103
GWTPI

[Anonymous No.3535131]

>>3535113
Was that an attempt at irony?

[Anonymous No.3535134]

>>3535113
Lel, projection it is. Lighten up, friend.

[Anonymous No.3535150]

>>3535134
the butthurt is strong with this one

[Anonymous No.3535161]

>>3535113
>saccharine, over-flowery
>laughable in the extreme
>saccharine, over-flowery
>Constance Garnett

also, what is with this insult game where one ignores citing their target and just paints a stereotype instead.
That behavior if I didn't know any better would strike me as a
>need to impress others

[Anonymous No.3535165]

>>3535161
>>saccharine, over-flowery

[Anonymous No.3535168]

>>3535161
sure is butthurt in here

[Anonymous No.3535190]

>>3535168
I love you.

[Anonymous No.3535195]

I personally really like The Beat Generation. Weirdly enough, Naked Lunch is what got me into literature. I was so confused by Burroughs' apparent-insanity that I read stuff by other Beat figures and eventually became pretty well-versed in their works. I agree that Kerouac is often overrated and seems to be a symbol amongst all pseudo-intellectual crowds, but I still think he's a decent writer. Though after reading other books by him it's pretty apparent that he's kinda a one-trick pony.

[Anonymous No.3535207]

seems like a cool thing to be a part of
the fugs and burroughs came out of it, so that's good

[Anonymous No.3535224]

>>3535207
The Fugs are the greatest. There's this great Youtube video with Ed Sanders, William Buckley, and a drunk Jack Kerouac. It's pretty funny.

[Anonymous No.3535513]

>>3535075
>>>3534856
>Oh, god... my sides...
>
>Do you always express yourself like a fifth-rate imitation of a Oscar Wilde caricature?

What the fuck? You used this exact insult in the thread about Tsuji! It was a meh put down then and it's a men put down now. What the hell were you thinking?

[Anonymous No.3535517]

>>3535513
I meant men the second time. Not men.

[Anonymous No.3535532]

>>3535517
Fuck it.

[Anonymous No.3535577]

>>3535513
/lit/ really can be pretty shit sometimes. My biggest problem with this board is the blatant elitism.

[Anonymous No.3535591]

It all coincides rather well with the rise of narcissism in the U.S.

Not a fan, really. There are interesting ideas about the associativity of language, but there is more "bad" than "good" overall.

[Anonymous No.3535606]

rich kids
>>3534846

[Anonymous No.3535617]

I only like Burroughs' work and Howl. Their influence might be large and Eliot Weinberger might be right to say they're the last generation of American writers to take a political stand, but I just don't enjoy most of what they produced and I think Gaddis and the 60s writers did one hell of a better job.

[Anonymous No.3535628]

>>3535577
Can you cogently explain why elitism is bad?

I believe elitism is a priori good. The most talented and knowledgeable people should be in positions of importance and hold sway over all the others. Otherwise, you're kowtowing to the opinions and thoughts of whatever clod voices them--a Ph.D. in literature is no smaller nor larger than a 14 year old who skimmed the book yesterday and wants to get loud about it.

[Anonymous No.3535650]

>>3535628
I think you're reading that users post too literally. If someone complains about elitism they're typically decrying the kind of arbitrary choices and ultra critical responses that a bunch of insecure pseudo intellectuals voice because they cannot control anything outside of the one interest they've devoted themselves to. I realize I'm being harsh myself and ultimately I agree with you that we should trust people who actually know what they're talking about rather than just giving everyone a vote. But we need to see through some of the bullshit that crops up here and there.

[Anonymous No.3535666]

>>3535628
>The most talented and knowledgeable people should be in positions of importance and hold sway over all the others.
settle down, socrates

[Anonymous No.3535673]

>>3535050

are you me dude?

[Anonymous No.3535676]

>>3535075

it was a great comment

get the sand out of you vagina

[Anonymous No.3535714]

>>3534856
>a real human bean

[Anon No.3535826]

>>3535714
STOOOP!!

[Anonymous No.3535843]

>>3535676
Holy shit. Are you still sore about that comment about your shit writing? That anon was right. Either help yourself to a copy of The Elements of Style ASAP or get the fuck out of here with your butthurt,

[Anonymous No.3536184]

>>3534856
Aww. I know that feeling about Kerouac. I feel like I have some connection with you right now somehow someway.

[Anonymous No.3536190]

>>3535113
>You wish you were decadent. No, I only mean to say that your unfortunate tendency towards saccharine, over-flowery expression

I got about that deep before farting... annnd that's what I think of that.

[Anonymous No.3536211]

>>3535113
Truth is a delusion, nigga. You're so smart you know it to be true.

[Anonymous No.3536218]

>>3536211
omg i just paradoxed. wtf. :(

[Anonymous No.3536881]

>>3536218
You should suspend judgement bro. It's the only way to not contradict yourself and still be a decent person.

[Anonymous No.3536896]

pretty cool as an introduction to lit for teens since the characters are admirably radical to them so it keeps them hooked while the writing is more structurally complex than most modern young adult stuff so it expands their mind instead of just satisfying them.

[Anonymous No.3536906]

>>3535113
lol no. He was succinct and appropriate.
Your word choice is terribly cliche and doesn't even fit descriptively.
>saccharine, over-flowery expression
>in the extreme
>erudite
>stilted
The way you use these words, reads like you just heard of them and want to use them whether it's appropriate or not.

[Anonymous No.3536910]

>>3535113
>Constance Garnett
oh and you obviously read the wikipedia article or comments here about this writer and think if you can fit something in about her, it'll make you look intellectual.

You are an embarrassment.

[Anonymous No.3536956]

>>3534846

A bunch of talentless fagots who thought they were very important; a group of gay men who felt they deserved to be admired and respected because they drank, smoked, used drugs, make strange parties, gave the ass, and, occasionally, sketched some crooked lines claiming to be verses.

[Anonymous No.3536962]

>>3536956
Who do you dislike bohemian lifestyles?

[Anonymous No.3536965]

>>3536956
>le talentless reactionary face

[Anonymous No.3536971]

>>3536962
because it's different from my preferred lifestyle of growing a manly beard, living in the woods with little more than a shotgun and a typewriter, writing manifestos decrying the fall of civilization.

[Anonymous No.3536995]

>>3536962
>>3536971

Nothing against a particular lifestyle, but if you want to become a great artist, your lifestyle must incorporate the following aspects: many hours of work and study; huge amounts of effort, carefulness to keep a balanced mind (capable of producing).

Sure, if you want to produce one or another little poem during your lifetime (those kinds of poems that are just read by other poets, but that "ordinary people" do not understand), if you want to be telling stories of how such and such a metaphor and image arose in your brain while you were stoned or drunk, then beat a lifestyle is for you.

[Anonymous No.3537026]

>>3536995

The first two were probably right and I'd have to say what makes you think they didn't put in the effort? are you writing any epic poems or long streams of consciousness lately? It's not something you can just do casually.

>carefulness to keep a balanced mind
but this. good god. it just screams; 'anyone who disagrees with me is biased, I'm the only impartial mind in the universe'

[Anonymous No.3537092]

>>3534846

They seem to appeal to a certain type, usually at a certain time in their life. I discovered the Beats as a smart kid, but one that was a social outcast. It was fascinating to me that there was this whole body of work by multiple writers that was never taught in school. Later I grew up, I guess, and reassessed when I knew more about world literature (and just great literature in general) to make a comparison.

> Kerouac
The combination of religious language and concepts, as paper thin as they are, gets really grating (though it remains the easiest way to identify a fan. No Kerouac fan can talk about the Beats for more than 30 seconds without starting in on religious imagery.) 95% of his output is really poor. I used to wonder if this was because of the cottage industry that formed around him after his death, publishing everything he ever wrote as a book.

> Burroughs
Naked Lunch set my face on fire. Things after that, not so much. He's really only associated with the Beats because of personal friendships (and many of those over long distances for years) -- he shares little else in common with them.

> Ginsburg
Oh God. A couple of brilliant images in overwrought poems and then a lifetime of awful. After "The Green Automobile" (I think it was called, it's been years since I read it) and the first part of "Howl", it was just terrible. It's like taking the Boomers and boiling them down to their bare essence: navel-gazing, spiritual masturbation, literal masturbation turned spiritual, etc.

> The rest
About the only other writer associated with the Beats that I care for is the poet Lew Welch; unfortunately he didn't write that much.

[Anonymous No.3537129]

>>3536995
>f you want to become a great artist, your lifestyle must incorporate the following aspects: many hours of work and study; huge amounts of effort, carefulness to keep a balanced mind (capable of producing).
Sounds like Kerouac to me.

[Anonymous No.3537268]

>>3537026
>to say what makes you think they didn't put in the effort?

Well, if they did, then they were just bad writers.

>>3537026

>are you writing any epic poems or long streams of consciousness lately? It's not something you can just do casually.

What makes you think I'm not working? I write every day; some days are more productive, others less, but I keep moving forward (at the moment I am suffering quite severe anxiety attacks, which is disturbing my production). I've produced a comedy in verse, prose and minor poems and songs: Shakespeare is my model (though the comedy became too big - I have to work better with concision in the future). I am currently working on a tragedy.

[Anonymous No.3537274]

>>3537129

Kerouac it's not the real problem: writers like Ginsberg are.