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/lit/ - Literature

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3530655 No.3530655 [Reply] [Original]

What is your daily mix of 'high' and 'low' culture? What are your attitudes towards enjoying either, should you focus on high culture alone or is there room for both.

I spent my afternoons reading classic works of fiction yet will spend my evenings watching clips on YouTube and game shows.

>> No.3530661

I spend my days reading philosophy and playing chess but also browsing 4chan /lit/.

>> No.3530663

I listen to pop music. I watch the Howard Stern show. I save my elitism for literature.

>> No.3530668

4chan basically, and videogames.

>> No.3530674

I don't believe one could ever be 'high brow' without enjoying the 'low brow'.

Much the same as one could never experience pleasure if one has never experienced pain.

We are after all discussing this on 4chan. The lowest of the low with a considerably sized user base that strives to transcend the tedium of such a low brow community.

>> No.3530678

I'm on /lit/ right now, I feel like I have all my bases covered.

>> No.3530682

I get my lows from weeaboo shit.

>> No.3530683

If you analyze a child's cartoon with the same approach to mise en scene as you would fellini or godard, is that high or low culture?

>> No.3530692

"Low culture" is like fast food. It's enjoyable in bursts, quick and painless, but there's no long-term gratification to derive from it. You rarely want to revisit it, unlike "high culture", which can last a lifetime. It's an impressive display of efficiency, if you think about it.

Appreciate it for what it is instead of complaining about it like a child. I like to troll people with my extensive knowledge of pop trivia and theoretical knowledge of highly inaccessible modernist movements. For some reason, people expect you to be elitist.

>> No.3530708

>>3530692

>you rarely want to revisit it
>like fast food

You and I have very different attitudes to fast food. I find it addictive though not filling.

>> No.3530712

I'm a big Taylor Swift fan, especially her song 'I Knew You Were Trouble'... I feel like Hegel might have had a thing or two to nod knowingly at if he had heard this song

>> No.3530713

>>3530712
"Maybe you never really know yourself...until you lose yourself"

>> No.3530741
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3530741

>>3530712
>I think that the worst part of it all wasn't losing him. It was losing me.
>GWFH when

>> No.3530768
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3530768

>>3530708
Not him but whenever I have fast food it's greasy, I'm bloated the rest of the day, and it gives me gas, and I feel like shit the rest of the day.

It's like having a hangover and not wanting to drink for a while, you eat fast food and then you're sick of it for a couple of weeks.

Also /fit/itzen.

>> No.3530794

I am a sucker for cape comics.

>> No.3530813

Yesterday I spent 10 hours playing video games and browsing 4chan, then I watched 400 Blows and read Notes from the Underground.
I really need friends or a job or something to get me out of the house please help

>> No.3530872

I just realized that none of my hobbies would universally be accepted as "high culture."

Best I can do is that I play an instrument (but it's the drums, see what I mean?) and that I listen to jazz occasionally.

>> No.3530876
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3530876

>>3530683

>> No.3531554

>>3530876

Always enjoyed that Calvin and Hobbes

>> No.3531715

>>3530876
Peak Calvin and Hobbes right there.

>> No.3531740
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3531740

it's crazy, because like, instead of just reading really smart things, like fauconnier and dollfus, i also do really dumb shit, like watcha cartoon, because i'm not a stuck-up intellectual, i'm also in touch with my retard roots. which probably makes me even smarter than the regular smart people because tehy're too dumb to enjoy life xD am i right. yolo

>> No.3531759

>>3531740
>Trenbolone is a steroid used by veterinarians on livestock to increase muscle growth and appetite.
wat

>> No.3531780

What's this pretentious bullshit? I suppose you think "high" and "low" culture as different mediums, not content.

How does literature compare to other forms of culture, in your opinion? Do you think literature is inherently better than music, films and video games?

>> No.3531781

I would tell you what idiots you all are for participating in this thread, but I don't care enough to do so.

Excluding the calvin&hobbes guy. That fellow is all right.

>> No.3531799

>>3531759
dyel XD

>> No.3531801

I like scifi novels and shows. Firefly, stargate, farscape, etc

Ex weeabo, still enjoy some animu

Mostly have been doing way too much high though, and ignoring the low.

>> No.3531819

>>3531780
>Do you think literature is inherently better than music, films and video games?
I think so, especially the latter. Obviously not all literature, but the best literature is better than the best music/film/video games

>> No.3531827

>>3531780
This could make for an interesting discussion. What content, then, defines "high" or "low" culture?

>>3531819
Why? Because it's been around longer? Music's been around a long time, too.
What about literature makes it more conducive to "culture"?

>> No.3531828

i can't enjoy any low brow mediums sorry

i'm an authentic patrician at heart

>> No.3531831

does film noir count as high or low? It was kinda low culture when it was made, as it grew out of genre fiction. But now many pretentious high culture people love to talk about how they love watching bogart and bacall films and shit.

I guess what makes something low and high art changes with time.

>> No.3531836

>>3531831
The word "subjective" shows up and things get messy.

>> No.3531841

>>3531819
>best literature better than best classical composition
not that easy to make such a judgement

>> No.3531858

I just play video games and read books that aren't trash but not literature either. I don't really partake in high culture.
The main reason I would, however, is simply so I don't feel bad for being a pleb. I don't know if that is a good reason.
Any advice pertaining to my situation would be cool.
If anyone has any advice along those

>> No.3531861
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3531861

High: Reading books, reading articles online, thinking delicious thoughts.

Low: Watching the news online once or twice a week, watching le epic downloaded HBO etc series once or twice a week, browsing shitty parts of the internet, thinking delicious thoughts.

Strange mix: Browsing /lit/, listen to music some days, listening to podcasts or watching Zizek youtube videos or something, thinking delicious thoughts.

>> No.3531864

is fetish porn low or high?

>> No.3531870

>>3531864
depends on the fetish

>> No.3531868

All my lit reading is high culture type. My music is contemporary classical and ambient.

4chan gets in most of my low culture quota.

And I guess board games might be low. I dunno.

>> No.3531869

>>3531861
switch the proles and the bourgeois and I'm okay with that

>> No.3531873

>>3531870
domination

>> No.3531875

Why is there an obsession with this distinction?

>> No.3531876

I like to read superhero comic books and watch superhero films, even the bad ones like Daredevil and Green Lantern. I don't know if you want to throw video games in there as well. Stuff like Battlefield, FIFA, and NBA 2K.

>> No.3531881

>>3531876
Video games aren't necessarily low or even culture. A tough game of Civ is intellectually stimulating, for example, but it isn't culture.

>> No.3531883

>>3531875
So people can think they're better than others.

Hell, you're doing the the same thing by implying it doesn't matter to you.

>> No.3531885

>>3531881
What about so-called "art" games?

>> No.3531887

>>3531883
I wasn't trying to imply that. I just don't get how there could be any other reason than what you just stated.

>> No.3531889

>>3531887
Well, that's the reason.

>> No.3531890

>>3531885
Those barely qualify as games and are usually bad.

>> No.3531893

>>3531889
What would you suggest I do about it? I'm pretty pleb.

>> No.3531895

>>3531890
Uhhhh... Shadow of the Colossus?

>> No.3531897

>>3531895
That doesn't fall under the same umbrella as "art games".

>> No.3531900

I sometimes gorge myself on mtv reality shows, including but not limited to: 16 and pregnant (my favorite) the jersey shore and that fish one where they make people find out their internet gf/bf is not real. I balance this obvious plebeian nature by watching ironically, and with a sincere mixture of horror, joy, and overwhelming awe at what the world around me has become.

>> No.3531901

>>3531893
Stop caring about being a pleb, of course.

>> No.3531902

>>3531901
There's so many people smarter than I that speak to the contrary.

>> No.3531910

>>3531902
Oh? Like who? Give me some quotes to work with.

Why should you care what a bunch of anonymous internet posters think about your taste in books or music or any other kind of media?

>> No.3531914

>>3531910
Because the philosophers say so, man. I can't say that they are wrong, but I can't say that it matters to me either.

>> No.3531937

>>3531914
Do what you think is best without regard to labels and shit. That's what I'm trying to say.

Read books because it'll lead to a more fulfilling life, not because someone on the internet says they'll respect you more for it.

>> No.3531943

>>3531937
What do you do, personally?

>> No.3531948

>>3531869
Next time I'll make them both meh tier.

>> No.3531949

>>3531943
With regards to what?

>> No.3531951

>>3531949
The thread's topic.

>> No.3531964
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3531964

>>3531937
don't tell me what to do, faggot

>> No.3531955

>>3531951
I'm this guy >>3530872

>> No.3531957

>>3530655
4chan & league of legends in between two chapters of lullysses

>> No.3531965

>>3531964
Perfect!

>> No.3531969

>>3531955
Cool. According to academia you are a brainwashed pleb.

>> No.3531976

>>3531969
And I'm okay with that. I haven't got time to be anything else at the moment, what with the whole "education" thing.

>> No.3531998

>>3531976
You'll never be the best, though. You'll always be mediocre and wallowing amongst mediocrity. It's authentically disgusting.

>> No.3532020

>>3531998
Best at what?

>> No.3532025

>>3532020
Being an elite patrician, pleb.

>> No.3532030

>>3532025
Oh, that. I'll cope, life goes on, someone's gotta do it, etc.

>> No.3532032

>>3532030
Delusion.
come on /lit/ back me up

>> No.3532033

>>3532025
Can you please take a tripcode Mr. Pretentious Elite Patrician man. That way I can pre-empt reading your inane posts

>> No.3532057

>>3532032
too lazy, too trivial. leave the kid alone

>> No.3532062

>>3532057
But he's wrong, isn't he? So very, deliciously wrong.

>> No.3532081

These fucking plebs who think it's okay to be plebs.

>> No.3532358

>>3531881

What's your argument against video games as culture?

Because I disagree with your assertion and wonder what rationale you use to justify this statement?

>> No.3532377

>>3531881
This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on /lit/ and that's saying something. Raymond Williams should bitchslap you hard enough for tears of blood to pour down your ugly face

AND YEAH I'M MAD

>> No.3532415

>>3532377
Huh, why?

>> No.3532433
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3532433

>>3531890
You just don't know what you're talking about. Cosmology of Kyoto, BNJP, LSD: Dream Simulator are fine examples of artistically sophisticated games, and game systems have been featured in galleries as art pieces frequently from the 80s on. I don't know why you feel the need to comment without actually caring or putting any interest into it.
But it's not like Donkey Kong Country or Super Mario Bros or Dwarf Fortress aren't works of art by any postmodern definition, which, if you weren't aware, is the predominant aesthetic theory in the high art world for the last half century.

OP, I like kitsch stuff. So I might have some obscure avant-teen minimalist harsh japanoise shit next to a DJ Screw mix or cheeky afrosynth. I don't know if that counts as high and low because even though I do find myself on the shitty reality shows or commercial stock galleries or shitty parts of youtube, the consumption isn't sincere. I mean, I am genuinely interested and entertained, but there's a level of irony involved.

A /lit/ related example would be the last book I finished was Murakami's Coin Locker Babies, this is the first sentence:
>The woman pushed on the baby's stomach and sucked its penis into her mouth; it was thinner than the American menthols she smoked and a bit slimy, like raw fish.
Absolutely embarrassing. I'm reading Bernhard's the Loser now though, so you've got to give me a little credit for foreign obscurity.

>> No.3532441

>>3532433
>postmodern definition, which, if you weren't aware, is the predominant aesthetic theory in the high art world for the last half century
That certainly does not mean that I must subscribe to it.
I play video games of all kinds all the time, I just don't think that they are art. Or, rather, I don't think that I'm qualified to make that judgement.

>> No.3532495
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3532495

>>3532441
>That certainly does not mean that I must subscribe to it.
Well, when you're declaring something "is not art", you clearly mean that you feel it doesn't belong in a museum or exhibited in a gallery or sold in the art market or criticized or analyzed in thesis papers or in NY times culture section. Because that's what defines what is art and what isn't, and you're saying those boundaries don't include video games.

I disagree and could dig up examples of games developed by artists to be displayed as art pieces in respected exhibits and galleries or commercially developed games recognized as culturally and artistically worthwhile by established organizations.

If you felt that the video game medium does not fall under your own personal interpretation of art or culture, you would have said that, not declared it not art. And anyways, something tells me it doesn't actually, and that you don't have a clear idea what "art", "culture" and "games" personally means to you.

>Or, rather, I don't think that I'm qualified to make that judgement.
Probably, so why did you make it, and share it with confidence?

>> No.3532521

>>3532495
Your intuition is correct. I'm not going to argue anything more.

>> No.3532533

>>3532521
Okay.

>> No.3532561

>>3532441
Predominant aesthetic theory as well as dominant mode of cultural logic. Postmodernism isn't simply a static list of stylistics, but rather a symptom of late capitalism. One could hardly choose to unsubscribe to postmodernism without unsubscribing from the entirety of the Western (and increasingly the Eastern) world.

If you don't think video games are "art," then you're without a doubt an imbecile.

>> No.3532667

>>3532561
Could you elaborate? I'm not knowledgeable about this at all.

>> No.3532683

>>3532433

everything in this post is okay except the irony in consumption bullshite which is just a way of acknowledging, then rationalizing and compartmentalizing guilt for playing "into the system" away

this is because you're stupid enough to still think there's any 'one system' of culture because academia is 20 odd years behind whats actually fucking happening

>> No.3532685

I think there's been a confusion of mixing art and good, i.e. just because something is art doesn't make it good -- or high art.

Videogames are art; but, I wouldn't call it, largely, art worthy of praise, imo.

>> No.3532702

>>3532683
What are you saying exactly? I'm not that guy of course, I just want to learn.

>> No.3532745

>>3531861

God tier:
Aristocracy, lumpenproletariat
Meh tier:
Proletariat, bourgeoisie
Shit tier:
Petite bourgeoisie

That way the climb up the social ladder resembles the hero's journey.

>> No.3532780

if it's low then it is shit and therefore isn’t art.

we haven't seen real art in decades

>> No.3532781

>>3532561
Video games aren't art, you're the imbecile kid.

Also 10 years from now people will still be playing doom 1 while shit like cod and crysis they won't be.

video games are games and games are not art.

>> No.3532805

>>3532745
Shit tier: Everything

God tier: A Rebours!

>> No.3532890

>>3532781
So 10 years from now, people will be playing an example of the medium. Its longevity and influence spreads out from video games and enters a cultural lexicon. And yet, video games are not art.

getaloadofthisguy.jpg

>> No.3532902

>>3532890
Video games are games and we don't consider games to be art. They are games, not artwork.

>> No.3532907

>>3532902
Books are nook and we don't consider books to be art. They are books, not artwork.

Seems logical

>> No.3532912

>>3532907
>what is literature

>> No.3532935
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3532935

>>3532683
>then rationalizing and compartmentalizing guilt for playing "into the system" away
I don't know, I don't think so. I think the difference is that there's an element of self-awareness when I'm "playing into the system", I recognize and am amused by the absurdity of it, and I seek out the lower extremes because I enjoy the pulpy nature, though I still seek out tasteful pieces, even if the line between intentional or accidental, real or imagined is very blurred.
Between making that post and responding now, I was watching Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai. I think that fact's amusing, I think the nature of the movie is amusing, the people involved and the things depicted but I also really did love it, even if it wasn't intellectual cinema, even it was informed by ghetto cultures and gangster flicks and was a silly couch interpretation of the samurai code, I still really liked it. I don't care, I don't think it's any less worthwhile than Le Samourai, which carries a prestigious Melville French New Wave label, I'd put them on the same shelf.

I really don't think there's a lot of anxiety for me in that area. It's an approach I've always had, something I naturally fell into before I had any knowledge of postmodernism or post-irony or "academia". As >>3532561 said, it's not an artistic movement, it bleeds into every facet of the western world, it is our culture. Not just in the arts, but in our sense of humor, trending sexualities, youtube advertisements and the ios app store icon. The postmodern aesthetic is a reflection of us and we reflect postmodernism.

>> No.3532965
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3532965

>>3532902
>and we don't consider games to be art.
Rhizome commissions one or two games every year.
http://rhizome.org/editorial/tags/commissions/

If you aren't aware of rhizome I don't think you're in the position to tell anyone what "we" consider to be art.

PS: Pic is certified real art: Brad Troemel, 2013

>> No.3533052

>>3532935
what a horrible culture we have

we need a world war to destroy it

>> No.3533055

>>3532965
You know what then? Fuck art. Go be a shitbag blowhard no talent piece of shit and kill yourself.

>> No.3533057

>>3532965
>new media art
>real art

LOL

>> No.3533064
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3533064

>>3533052
>>3533055
>>3533057
new media 4 president 20144

>> No.3533217

>>3532902
>Interactive media is media and we consider media to be art.
I do love my wordgames.

>> No.3533242

I watch and read superhero fiction and enjoy video games. Besides that I mostly read philosophy.

>> No.3533245

>>3531875
welcome to the world of linguistics

>> No.3533263

>high culture
browse /lit/ all day, if lucky post on a sunhawk thread

>low culture
browse /gif/ all night in search of tranny porn

>> No.3534680

Why are you making a distinction. Haven't you heard eating your own feces is high culture I'm France? Do what you feel like with utmost confidence. All these plebeians will just follow suit because even they don't know what they're following.

>> No.3534708

>>3530655
I like rubbing shit in my face and then making out with a hobo dressed up as Princess Diana (post-Charles rape).

Then when I want low culture I go read this obscure piece of genre fiction by a no-name Irish author. You wouldn't have heard of it. It had a limited print run and was trashy tripe anyway.

>> No.3534772

>>3531759
It's a fucking useful addon for when you don't know the definiton of a word

>> No.3534775

>>3532805
That's lumpenaristocracy.

>> No.3534812

>>3534708
>this obscure piece of genre fiction by a no-name Irish author. You wouldn't have heard of it. It had a limited print run and was trashy tripe anyway.

Finnegans Wake?