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/lit/ - Literature

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3510546 No.3510546 [Reply] [Original]

I love 1984.
Please tell me you have all read this?

> Discuss

>> No.3510561

i have not read that..

lol its old 1984 that was like 40 years ago

>> No.3510568

Yes I've read it. What should we discuss?

>> No.3510579

read it, loved it, good stuff.

what should we discuss OP

>> No.3510590

It's good stuff, but I agree with Neil Postman that Brave New World reflects a more accurate prediction of what a future dystopia would look like (self-opression by entertainment rather than by authoritarianism).

>> No.3510592

1984 is the only fictional work I've ever enjoyed reading

>tfw too autistic to enjoy literature and I only read nonfiction

>> No.3510600

>>3510590
I mean.. it just makes so much more sense from an economical point of view. If you haven't read it yet, take a look at brave new world revisited. In it, Huxley revisits a lot of the topics covered by brave new world in a more in depth and rigorous manner. He even comes so far as to admit where he has been outright incorrect and to offer alternative hypotheses which ring even more eerily accurate as time goes on. As a fine counterpoint to these novels, his other work Island stands firmly if a little sadly as an interesting vision of what these same tools could produce for humanity if they were democratized and wielded ostensibly to maximize individual liberty and happiness instead of society as a whole's.

>> No.3510607

>>3510590
Yes, but BNW predates 1984 by a number of years and Orwell wrote 1984 at the end of WW2, and was writing from that perspective.

>> No.3510609

>>3510600
Will check it out, thanks.

>> No.3510612

I thought it was ok, but ultimately annoying. It's good in the dystopian world it depicts, for instance, but listening to this guy blabber on and on about his varicose veins and how the proles are the answer to everything annoyed the hell out of me. It's been a while since I read it but as I remember it it had a lot of fluff.

>> No.3510613

>>3510592
You know, it's interesting that I bump into this post now. I used to get bothered by the smug autistic I hang out with because he always gets really upset and talks about how nothing matters more than physics and shit, but today I was talking with another friend about subjectivity and poetry, and whether or not what the author intended to say mattered, and whether multiple interpretations could both be correct, and what we think poems should do, how they should convey emotions, whether or not a poem had to sound good to be good, and a bunch of other stuff about poetry, mostly what we look for in poetry and what we write in our own poetry (we're both optimistic but secretly depressed fucks, and we're both really into dreams and love surreal shit, so we generally agree on everything, but it's always nice to talk), and while we were debating minor disagreements, I heard my autistic friend mutter "this is why I like physics, it's all concrete," or something to that effect.

And that was when I realized how miserable it must be to be autistic, how much beauty you completely miss out on, how much of the human experience is completely foreign to you.

Fuck mate, my crushing guilt is off the charts. I'm never mean, or even short with him when he starts ranting about how his major is the best, but how could I be so understanding. I was always bothered by him when I should have been pitying him. I can't even imagine life without poetry. Life without social interactions, or philosophical discussion that wasn't just sarcastic remarks and spouting the logical fallacies you'd memorized. Life where everything was concrete. It sounds so horrifying to me.

Oh man, now I feel guilty for assuming his life is worse for not thinking like me. Fuck this shit.

>> No.3510636

>>3510612
I had the same problems until i realized that this was his intentions, to emphasize the monotony of his life and detachment of the current state of the world as the story is told from his point of view rather than an overall perspective, whereas he is crushed by the rapacity of O'Brien and the forcefulness of his ideals when put to the comparison of his mind, being the product of social and educational degradation.

Good story, did not enjoy style

>> No.3510664

>>3510613
Well I'm that same guy, I was just browsing /lit/ for some possible nonfiction recs and came across this thread. I'm actually autistic (have HFA). I'm slightly different than that guy because while I used to be very interested in hard sciences, but I'm not so much anymore. However my academic interests are usually more concrete (economics, politics, environmental sustainability, urban renewal/gentrification, etc). I enjoy some philosophy (mostly existentialism) but find a lot of it to be prolix bullshit, sorry.

I do wonder what it would be like to intuitively understand how to interact with other people. I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish to be NT. I've had 2 relationships, but they were both very weird and stressful and didn't last long. I have a few friends but only 1 I know on a deep level.

>I can't imagine life without poetry

I'm the same way but with music. To be honest, it's one of the few ways I can get in touch with very deep emotions (I don't get the same effect from literature). These are a few songs I love that touch me very deeply:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42ve4xVp9As
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4-JKmYqK-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfLEk2wlC84

If there's anything else you'd like to know about life from an AS perspective I'll be monitoring the thread.

>> No.3510671

>>3510613
>subjectivity
>autism
The reason you have problems identifying with others is probably because you think everyone should abide by your standards and that they are fools if they do not. Your malady is self inflicted and no amount of discussion will fix that. I dont mean to put you on the defensive but these are pseudo-intellectual mindsets that result from the individual not truly understanding what they value.

Also this does not belong in a discussion of Orwells 1984

>> No.3510672

I don't consider it really dystopian fiction.

I see it as the horror work of all horror works.

A place where society functions perfectly with no flaws, it is the machine that you want to take a break from every day once you get home from school and work, but only it is 24/7.

The daily grind doesn't just become a way of life, it becomes something you want to defend.

In a way, it's not really representative of a possible future, but more, a representation of everything that is terrible about daily life magnified times 1000x.

>> No.3510679

>>3510613
Also, modern physics/string theory isn't really concrete at all. It's basically philosophy.

>> No.3510691

>>3510546
>Please tell me you have all read this?

Nope!

>> No.3510703

>>3510679
It always helps to know what youre talking about before you attempt a discussion.

Have you considered some of the other boards on 4chan such as /b/, /sci/, /r9k/?

>> No.3510705

I'm rereading it for the third time right now! I just put it down to browse /lit/ before bed. It's a great book, but like other posters have said, the future portrayed by BNW is much more likely. I think I'll reread that next.

>> No.3510709

>>3510664
>Boards of Canada
>Mogwai Fear Satan
At least you've got good taste, man.

>> No.3510712

>>3510703

He has a very good point. There's very little that's concrete about higher physics, especially with regard to the string theories and their spawn.

>> No.3510714

>>3510709

Sarcasm, I dearly hope.

>> No.3510725

>>3510712
>theoretical physics
>Theoretical
>THEORETICAL

>> No.3510727

>>3510714
Those are both legitimately good artists.

>> No.3510730

>>3510672

This.

The INGSOC Government is unwieldy, a regime of such a scale would never work with the technology given in the novel.

It's really a horror story about how fucking terrifyingly awful it would be to never be able to escape from the work.

>> No.3510732

>>3510727

I'd have to firmly disagree.

>> No.3510735

>>3510725

Newton's been dead for a while. There's very little going on in physics that isn't blind pontification and numbers games

>> No.3510740

>reading it right now

>> No.3510742

>>3510732
You're welcome to your opinion. Out of curiosity, what do you listen to?

>> No.3510764

>>3510742

Not him but I have a similar sentiment, Mogwai has just always been meh to me. Boards of Canada I used to like way back when, but I just now got around to re listening to some of their albums and really I don't know why I thought it was awesome before. It is just ok-tier ambient electronic music.

>> No.3510777

>>3510671
Mate, I think you misread my post.
Though I agree with the latter half of your statement.

>> No.3510778

Speaking as a hardline communist who is about to go hang out with friends who have hammer and sickles tattooed on their chests at a bar, I think 1984 is ok, but I dislike that everyone equates totalitarianism with socialism because of that stupid book.

For fucks sakes Orwell fought on the side of the Communists in the spanish civil war. He wrote a whole book about it. But every analysis is herp derp anti-communist.

>> No.3510791

>>3510778
Could the argument be made that a protest against Stalinism is not equivalent to an indictment of Communism (or Socialism) as a political system? Or do you agree with Stalinist principles?

>> No.3510806

>>3510742

I'm into quite a bit, but my daily listening usually consists of pop from the 50s-60s.

Some of my favorite artists:

Sam Cooke
Al Green
Wanda Jackson
Lana Del Rey
Blind Blake
Crass
Subhumans
Connie Stevens
The Marvelettes
Diana Ross & The Supremes
Elvis Presley
Chris Isaak
Wu-Tang Clan
Dead Kennedys
Cream
Simon & Garfunkel

>> No.3510831

>>3510806
Fair enough. I'd say we are coming from pretty different perspectives when it comes to music (I'm into some more modern stuff, like Animal Collective and Sigur Ros), but I've always meant to check more of that older stuff out. I've heard Cream, Presley, S&G, and Jackson, but I'll have to look up some of that other stuff (can't stand Del Ray though, sorry).

>> No.3510841
File: 258 KB, 500x375, 1357779235118.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3510841

>>3510806
feels generic man

>> No.3510840

>>3510791

Nobody agrees with the way stalin ran the country like a police state or the government structure. Although I would argue that the United States did the same thing when they rounded up every communist and beat/murdered them wantonly in our own country under the name of the FBI,(aka the american secret police anti-communists) which is an equal equivalent to the KGB just with anti-capitalism. Read a good history of the FBI sometime, they threw thousands of innocent people in jail with no trial just under suspicion of being communist. But since it was in America it is good, but when it is in russia it is bad.

Anyways I have never met a single communist who thinks that what Stalin did was good. And if you ever hear a communist saying that they are 'Stalinist' what they really mean is that the economic model of central planning under stalin is what they agree with as opposed to the economic model trotsky, or tito or hoxa or any other leader.

I think that Stalin was a horrible shitty leader, and that I agree with the books criticism of his methods. But does the book ever criticize the economics behind it? Nope, because the principles are quite firm and Orwell agreed with him.

>> No.3510850

>>3510840
I'll grant you that the FBI has done some horrible shit, and that we should take a more serious look at our own nations cold-war era actions.
>I have never met a single communist who thinks that what Stalin did was good
/r/communism is full of Stalin apologists, it's disgusting
>But does the book ever criticize the economics behind it? Nope, because the principles are quite firm and Orwell agreed with him.
True enough. Animal Farm is definitely the work more critical of communism, and even that is more about the corrupting nature of power than a real critique of communist principle.

>> No.3510859

>>3510840
central planning is an absolutely horrible, horrible idea and if you don't understand why take an economics class or something

>> No.3510887

>>3510850

Honestly you can find people who hold any sort of views on the internet nomatter how stupid, especially here, this is where all of the fucking weirdest loners ever fucking congregate. Of course they are going to have shitty opinions.

But that shit doesn't fly in the real world.

I feel like Animal Farm is a good critique of the leaders of the USSR. But the fact that they had fucking leaders at all says it all. Communism defined by Marx as a STATELESS society, ran by the workers.

Leninism was bullshit.

>> No.3510902

>>3510859

What was horrible about it? Oh that they couldn't calculate or keep track of how much everyone was buying so they couldn't keep the production levels up correctly.

Hmm how do modern distribution centers work, when the COMPUTER says the stock is low, they order more automatically through the INTERNET.

If they had tried central planning in the 90s ran with our current technology they would have no problems. They were just a century too early.

But I guess we'll never know. Now quote me some Mises criticism that I've already read!

>> No.3510907

>>3510546

yes when i was 14

>> No.3510910

>>3510907
And now that I'm 16 that is SO phony and beneath me.

>> No.3510944

its shit
You would think there would be some mention of the culture of 18984? Michael Jackson? MTV?

>> No.3510972

>>3510840

I personally know marxists that agree that Stalin was a good leader. First of they they would object to the word "Stalinist", as Stalin didn't deviate from Marxism-Leninism. As for the accusations that Stalin was running a police state, his actions were necessary for the good of the worker and that many claims of tyranny ( such as the Doctor's plot, the Holodomor) were fabricated by detractors.

http://clogic.eserver.org/2005/furr.html

This article offers a good argument that defends Stalin.

>> No.3510975

>>3510972

stalin owned.

>> No.3510980

I half read it when I was a kid in high school, then stopped because I thought it was a romance novel
It's next on the list, I've read so much more orwell though

>> No.3510984

>>3510980
I loved down and out! Took me forever to find a copy.
Aspidistra was fucking awful. I used my copy of that as toilet paper.

>> No.3510986

>>3510887

uh yeah but you get to communism through socialism, and socialism requires a strong worker's state.

Leninism is a legitimate extension of Marxism.You're an idiot if you think otherwise and disservice your cause by pushing this view.

>> No.3510992

>>3510984
I liked homage best, closely followed by road to wigan pier
one of my favorite writers honestly

>> No.3511028

>>3510725

>theoretical
look up definition of "theory" in science

>>3510735
when u last quantum physics?

>> No.3511033

>>3510984
>Aspidistra was fucking awful

Kill yourself. Gordon Comstock is one of the most honest and real characters of any book. Money beats him. It's better tragedy than anything Shakespeare managed.

>> No.3511263

I actually just finished it 2 days ago, really really enjoyed it, thought the book ended perfectly

>> No.3511265

>>3511033
Aspidistra was fucking awful because it is the only book true to Orwell's own life experience.

>> No.3511266

>>3510986
Well except for Lenin's substitutionalism that has no basis in Marxism as it is pure idealism.

>> No.3511271

I've never read 1984 and I never will.

>> No.3511274

Orwell's nonfiction > Orwell's fiction

>> No.3511278
File: 23 KB, 500x400, 3555206584ebfc47.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3511278

I read it several years ago. I loved it. Kept my attention on every page. And it got me to be interested in politics at such a young age.

>> No.3511280

Read it a couple of years back not knowing what to expect really aside from vague outlines.

Was pleasantly surprised by the writing style. Very easy to read, and there was me thinking all literature was full of wanky prose.

>> No.3511283

You can't appreciate Aspidistra until you know the world is going to have it's way with you. If you have dreams, you won't get it.

>> No.3511289

>>3511283
Oh you need to have dreams to get aspidistra. They need to have been cheesegratered out of you by survival. But at the same time you can't have the "WE HAVE BEEN NONE WE SHALL BE ALL" that alienation can give you as a prole.

>> No.3511293

>>3510546
i got bored half way thorough sorry yo

>> No.3511327

>>3510806
>Blind Blake
That jaunty motherfucker.

>> No.3511457

>>3511274
>implying 1984 is fiction
ho ho ho ho ho boy

>> No.3511467

Full of interesting and important concepts and everything, but the writing was clunky as fuck

>> No.3511469

>>3511033
>better tragedy than anything Shakespeare imagined

Sir, I am afraid I must challenge you to a duel.

>> No.3511481

>>3511469
Don't worry, Aristotle is your second. Aspidistra is a cheap melodrama.

>> No.3512456

>>3511481
I think we can all agree that Aspidistra is, at the least, still a better love story than Twilight.