/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.3497079]

Why do people always try to talk about "philosophy" when they really mean "German philosophy" ? I don't think they really think there's any writing still considered philosophy today that wasn't out of Germany.

[Anonymous No.3497083]

it's an odd way of spelling Greek philosophy, bro.

[Anonymous No.3497087]

>>3497079
I'm not sure I know what you mean.

[Anonymouse No.3497097]

>>3497083
lel

[Anonymous No.3497116]

wut they only produced two classics. being n time and philo investigaties.

[Anonymous No.3497119]

>>3497117
>BTW Aristotle personally abused Alexander the Great until he was 16.

look where that got him

[Anonymous No.3497117]

>>3497083

What would Aristotle have to do with the serious Progress in philosophy that Fichte, Hegel, Schiller, Nietzsche, and so on made?

BTW Aristotle personally abused Alexander the Great until he was 16.

[Anonymous No.3497124]

>>3497117
hegel's an idiot, schiller is dumb, and nietzsche is boring once you get past his shtick.

[Anonymous No.3497130]

Plato > Aristotle.

This is clear, right?

[Anonymous No.3497143]

>>3497130
lol nooooo. aristotle influenced much better philosophy than dumbo.

[Anonymous No.3497147]

>>3497119
Good. Alexander the Great was a manlet asshole.

[Anonymous No.3497154]

>>3497124
Why is hegel an idiot?

[Anonymous No.3497157]

>>3497117
>What would Aristotle have to do with the serious Progress in philosophy
cause and effect, how does it work?

>misses Parmenides, Heraclitus, Pythagoras, Plato and a bunch of others
>speculates about Aristotle's and Alexander's teacher-student relationship
aren't you 16 yourself, tough guy?

[Anonymous No.3497163]

Goddamn you guise are easy to troll.

Wiki page says Aristotle TUTORED Alexander, not TORTURED.

[Anonymous No.3497169]

>>3497163
Just goes to show how bad the Wiki editors are.

[Anonymous No.3497175]

Well, I for one think that Heidegger was right when he said that German is the best language to think in - I mean, most modern French philosophy is mainly just comments to German philosophy.

>Deutsch ist die Sprache der Philosophie

[Anonymous No.3497191]

>>3497154
The Teleology in his philosophy of history pisses me off, he is to blame for a lot of shit that happened

[Anonymous No.3497195]

>>3497124

[Anonymous No.3497208]

>>3497191

I think his teleology is the best thing of his philosophy especially because he talks about the spirit, that is he talks about logic. I think it's pretty solid and our misunderstanding of his teleology (which was basically a supplement of Kant's critique of judgment) is what blocks current scholars between positivism and relativism.

Also blaming on him any political development it's silly. History is not made by ideas or personalities.

[Nokong Delphi No.3497215]

>>3497208

Hegel said history IS made of Ideas tho...

[Anonymous No.3497221]

>>3497208

Retake phil 101

[Anonymous No.3497234]

>>3497191

>rejecting the truth of history's dialectical development via reason to its ultimate teleological end

>being so mad you blame Hegel for bad stuff

Son..

[Anonymous No.3497235]

>>3497208
>History is not made by ideas or personalities

lol

[Anonymous No.3497236]

>>3497208
The point is that the whole idea of history or life as progress is silly - it implies that a goal exist.
Now the morphology of Spengler provides a better understanding of the way of history.

[Anonymous No.3497243]

>>3497215
Well he was wrong. He also said that southern Mediterranean people are passionate and that's why they are not good at philosophy.

We know better but this does not make him a bad philosopher.

>>3497221

Dunno man, already taking my phd.

[Anonymous No.3497246]

>>3497234
I can't stop reading it in his voice - best laugh I had this day

[None !Rrxa7zePwI No.3497263]

hegel is not that hard to understand or that interesting, once you realize the human capacity to "understand" collective agency is but a pile level object language (in the sorites problem) with its beguiling sense of completeness, but all the problems of vagueness and detachment from detailed workings of society

[Anonymous No.3497267]

>>3497236
The idea of progress is complicated in hegel as I am studying him.

He does state that history is the becoming of ever more freedom.
But what is freedom? It's overcoming by spirit of its own alienation onto itself.

That is the history he deals with it's the history of ideas, of rationality, understanding of how its development in time actually makes it so that the current ideas are an expansion in terms of power over the previous ones.

So its not so much a history of the world, but a history of the development of the images of the world.

[Anonymous No.3497278]

>>3497263
well he is the only way you can philosophically overcome skepticism.

[Anonymous No.3497314]

There is a really nice, recursive loop that occurs in Hegel's ideas about the development of geist that I like.

In so far as the dialectical process causes geist to know itself, Hegel's own philosophy, that of revealing these processes, is in itself a development happening to geist. Hegel's work becomes a process that helps geist develop but is at the same time describing the process of geist developing. It's a huge headfuck that I can still barely think about coherently.

[Neko No.3497318]

>>3497314

then you get to Absolute Knowledge

[None !Rrxa7zePwI No.3497319]

>>3497278
you have to be kidding me ja

[Anonymous No.3497320]

>>3497278
You can't overcome scepticism and neither should you want to.

[Toranaga No.3497333]

>>3497079
>Forgetting Chinese philosophy

Or are you just a racist Germanboo?

[Anonymous No.3497370]

>>3497333
>Chinese
>Philosophy

Choose one

[None !Rrxa7zePwI No.3497393]

>>3497370

[Anonymous No.3497388]

>>3497147
insecure tallfreak detected

go be shallow somewhere else like on /fit/ you homo

[Anonymous No.3497404]

Heh.

[Anonymous No.3497411]

>>3497388

[Anonymous No.3497415]

>>3497411
>heightism
>2013

[Anonymous No.3497425]

>>3497079

>in the year of our lord; anno domini, 1953, two score and twenty years

>not knowing hegel was a tool of the oligarchy

i seriously hope you guys dont do this

[Anonymous No.3499178]

>>3497415
wat...?

[Anonymous No.3499212]

>>3497425
>tool of the oligarchy

Not knowing that everything is a tool of the oligarchy

[Anonymous No.3499215]

TIL 4chan is still completely backwards on transgenderism. Every transperson is different, just like every other person is different, but there's some pretty easy rules. For the most part unless they're genderqueer, they just ARE the gender they present as. I don't know why gender confuses people so much, it doesn't even matter that much, why is everyone so obsessed with it? People act like a transman dating other men is confusing. It's not, it's two gay men dating each other. Genitals and how they stimulate each other really has nothing to do with their gender either, that's a completely different topic (sexuality). I really wish people would stop binding sexuality and gender together. What if a transwoman was asexual? Would it say anything about her gender? Not anymore than a ciswoman, right? It's like saying "Hey so if you were born a man but are now a woman, how do you deal with still liking football? Does that mean you're still really a man?".?

[Anonymous No.3499350]

>>3499215

[Anonymous No.3499749]

>>3497079
because your premise is incorrect. that's probably why

[Anonymous No.3499798]

You're cute

[Anonymous No.3499814]

If you really want to get down to brass tacks, most German philosophy comes from Hermeticism. Hegel's work in particular is fully consistent with the ambitions of Hermeticism.

Dialectics as well comes directly from Hermeticism.

[Anonymous No.3499834]

Once we leave Sartre or Camus /lit become totally retarded. Hegel's great btw.

[Anonymous No.3499929]

>>3499814
That's actually great.
I am currently doing studies in hegel and hermeticism without having thought the connection.

[Anonymous No.3499989]

>>3499749
this

[Anonymous No.3500018]

>>3499834
Sartre gets a bum rap, but let's face it, he's one of the most interesting writers of all time.

[Anonymous No.3500102]

>>3500018
Let's face it, he's not.

[Anonymous No.3500180]

German? You mean Asian philosophy?

[Anonymous No.3500195]

>>3499814
>>3497425

anon knows best

[Anonymous No.3500211]

>>3500195
who is the second to last?

[Anonymous No.3500404]

>>3497195
Beyond social critique, does anyone actually take him seriously? And at social critique, from what i see, he cant stop touching his fucking face long enough to make a coherent argument

[Anonymous No.3500412]

>>3500404
Try reading his books you halfwit.

[Anonymous No.3500514]

>>3500211
Gregor Samsa

[Anonymous No.3500531]

>>3500404

uh his Theory is actually the more substantial and respected of his work, opposed to his political philosophy or whatever you mean by 'social critique'

[Anonymous No.3500545]

>>3497147

>/lit/ poster insulting one of the greatest individuals in the history of mankind

Oh god, this is too much.

[Anonymous No.3500556]

>>3500195
Is the third from end Wintermute from Neuromancer?

If so, this is badass.

[Anonymous No.3500559]

>>3497117

Fichte, Hegel, Schiller and Zizek belong to the most infamous, deplorable tradition in the history of all philosophy. That such buffoons are still taken seriously today is proof we can never be rid of vermin in the great discipline of philosophy.

[Anonymous No.3500562]

>>3500545

one of the central tennents of greek tragedy is the heros flaws you philistine.

[Anonymous No.3500566]

>>3500404

No one with any credibility. He's a Barnes and Nobel-tier intellect, a chair philosopher and an odious human being that has no place outside the universities

[Anonymouse No.3500585]

>>3500562
Whut?
First,
>Iphigenia Among the Taurians
>Oedipus at Colonus
>The Supplicants
All tragedies in which the hero's flaws are backseat to the societal implications. Not all tragedy involves catharsis, not all tragedy necessitates a fall.
Second, of course Alexander was flawed. Pretty sure it was Polybius who claimed he died of alcohol poisoning. Nonetheless, the guy who insulted him didn't put up much more than "He's an ass," and the dude's accomplishments outweigh any tragic characteristics he -- admittedly -- possesses.
What are you trying to say?
nothing

[Anonymous No.3500587]

i think u mean tenets

[Anonymous No.3500591]

>>3497154

>Frau Edouard Devrient: "Do tell me, who is the stupid fellow sitting next to me?" Felix Mendelssohn (behind his napkin): "The stupid fellow next to you is the philosopher Hegel."

[Anonymous No.3500593]

>>3500566
People just dislike him because he is popular and they sells his books while they are not.
He is a pretty interesting philosopher and has some serious points and everyone hates him because he shits on everyone platter.

Analytic philosophers hate him because he is fun and actually believe that he is some sort of relativist.

Continentals hate him because he points a way out of Nietzscheanism and relativism.

I tell you, he is a serious philosopher and he is not taken seriously enough.

[Anonymous No.3500606]

>>3500559
Yeah, I'm pretty sure we should take our philosophical cues from the people who failed to understand wittgenstein's work til the 80s.

Or the guys who started their own school to attack Heidegger only to back up on that and start saying "well you know what, he does actually make sense".

Or hey, do you remember when you used to say that metaphysics is meaningless? Wasn't that misguided and dumb lol.

[Anonymous No.3500610]

>>3500593

Is that thinly veiled ad hominem I taste?

We've seen all his tricks before. He spins the same hollow locutions as Hegel and his school. I really did make an effort to read his Parallax view, but I could not find a single idea of merit anywhere. Mere castles of abstraction. As I said, these tricks have already been seen.

[Anonymous No.3500609]

>>3500591
Goethe loved the guy,

[Anonymous No.3500620]

muh dik

[Anonymous No.3500621]

>>3500610
Not really.

I haven't read the parallax view but I read most books that he has wrote before that.

I actually found sensible points and very interesting insights.
You think they are hollow locutions, castles of abstractions but I don't think so.

Please try to be more precise and I'll try to show you what I value about those passages.

[Anonymous No.3500622]

>greeks versus germans

I'll take whatever one has less debt.

[Anonymouse No.3500623]

>>3500610
>Castles of abstraction
>Frequently uses simple, often funny metaphors to illustrate his points
>Easiest philosopher to read since Rorty
This dude writes with a choppy cadence and can;t read philosophy

[Anonymous No.3500626]

>>3499814
would you happen to know where i could get an pdf of that book you posted?

[Anonymous No.3500629]

>>3500623

Sorry, I can read Critique of Pure Reason at a rate of two pages a minute. I'm pretty sure if I get hung up on anything, its vacuous language

[Anonymouse No.3500631]

>>3500610
>>3500623
Trolling aside, I haven't read Purralelx View yet. It might be more difficult.

[Anonymous No.3500633]

>>3500621

I gave the book away and put it out of my head years ago. This discussion is really dead out of the starting gate

[Anonymous No.3500641]

>>3500633
Well that's the problem I have.
People criticize him yet no one goes into the details.

I'm pretty justified to believe that it's more backlash than an actual rigorous intellectual opinion, since once I probe any of the "no one takes him seriously" bunch I only find paper thin criticism.

[Anonymous No.3500648]

>>3500585

and what is your substance?

>HES DUM

>WEL WUTS SO GUD ABT U

noone mentioned acomplishments, this dialogue is a non-sequitur, there might have been a point in there somewhere, but you doomed yourself because you got butthurt someone insulted your idol.

[Anonymous No.3500671]

>>3500641

Because he's not even worth getting to know, at any rate in my opinion. Life and patience are too short to waste them on dubious thinkers.

'Reading is merely a surrogate for thinking for yourself; it means letting someone else direct your thoughts. Many books, moreover, serve merely to show how many ways there are of being wrong, and how far astray you yourself would go if you followed their guidance.'

[Anonymouse No.3500673]

>>3500648
>>3500648
I brought up two valid points, his achievements were implied earlier, that's a piss-poor use of "non sequitur," and it doesn't need a hyphen.
>just shittin' up the shit train

[Anonymous No.3500696]

>>3500671
I don't think anyone has an obligation to read him. He is not an essential but I think that he poses some tough questions to anyone who is too much into derrida, foucault and deleuze from inside their systems.
He does some serious scholarship on that side of the spectrum.

And I also believe that actually he has done some pretty good job bringing back both lacan and hegel. Especially a lot of young philosophers have come up thanks to his presence (I'm thinking especially of Markus Gabriel).

But still, if you are too much into schopenhauer it's understandable why you are not so excited but this turn of affairs.
And in a way, being a pessimist myself, I understand.

[Anonymous No.3500765]

>>3500696

It's hard to even approach anyone in Hegel's school after being spoiled rotten on the perfect clarity of Schopenhauer and Nietzsche. Even when those two are wrong, its readily apparent, Schopenhauer especially.

[Anonymous No.3500769]

That's funny OP just the other day I was wondering why people always try to talk about "philosophy" when they really mean "thoughts"? I don't think they really think there's any writing still considered philosophy today that wasn't built from thoughts.

[Anonymous No.3500781]

Because doesn't matter where ideas come from.

[Anonymous No.3500785]

>>3500673

your rebuttal was a quintessential youtubism, 'who are you to criticise, i dont see you doing X things like Y'.

[Anonymous No.3502457]

>>3500018
Like Derrida once put it : Sartre is a bad philosopher, a bad writer but a good political man. Please, l'existentialisme est un humanisme is probably one of the stupiest thing i have ever read. Man is absolute liberty... please, just go back to Heidegger's thrown-in-the-world concept to see that man is not liberty. Plus liberty/determinism question is quite death (even in Sartre time)

[Neko No.3502510]

OP here

Made this as a pure troll thread and I'm very impressed. Good job everybody. Still not sure if you guise are getting mad about Hegel or Zizek in this half of the thread but keep it up.

--OP.