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/lit/ - Literature

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3496613 No.3496613[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Kanye West's 5th LP My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is better than any Greek tragedy in history.

I know some of you will think straight off the bat....

What does it mean for a work of art to be "better" than another?


I guess it depends on what the artist himself tries to achieve, and in turn, how successful he is at doing so with his product. In the case of the classical Greek tragedy, the objective of the playwrights was to evoke a CATHARSIS.

Ok well Wikipedia says that a catharsis is a sudden emotional breakdown or climax that constitutes overwhelming feelings of great pity, sorrow, laughter, or any extreme change in emotion that results in renewal, revitalisation. Listening to MBDTF, one can quickly get the idea that Kanye tried to achieve the same thing - to make people feel.

So let's go with that:

If we throw away all bias and prejudice based on the fact that most Greek tragedy (let's say, for example, Sofocles' Antigone) is academically valued and appreciated and MBDTF is not, we end up comparing them on the ground of evoking emotions, a catharsis.

Antigone may be relevant today as much as it was in the Greek times (and will continue to be for a long time) in field of motifs and ideas, but bringing up feels is where it falls flat. The world has simply changed too much for the ancient Greek bringers of catharsis to remain as powerful as they were. MBDTF, on the other hand, was one of the most emotionally "powerful" albums I have ever listened to, and I strongly believe I'm not alone in this.

It does, in whole, convey such powerful sense of emotion, the feeling that you are a different person than an hour ago when you hear the last words on "Who Will Survive In America" - and that is why I believe that MBDTF is better than any Greek tragedy, in today's world.

>> No.3496618

>>3496613
Kanye is whack; come back when you've listened to Atmosphere and Aesop Rock. These are rappers.

>> No.3496623

>>3496618
>I'm so white and uncool it's painful

>> No.3496630

These neo-Aristotelian faggots are crawling out of the woodwork in hoardes. Where's my RAID?

>> No.3496634

OP says nothing but truth. I literally have no argument against his claim.

>> No.3496638

>>3496623
I'm not white, and trying to be cool for its own sake is a fools errand.

>> No.3496647

Oh no! The nth "insult to culture" thread we've had today! I'm so upset again that someone might have a different opinion on some art or entertainment than I or my perception of cultured society! I'd better get all batthart and spend an hour or two trying to prove them wrong because it is important. It is especially important that I convince Anon of my opinion as he is not only unquestionably the person who wrote it in the first place but also certainly is not posting it here simply for a reaction.

>> No.3496649
File: 142 KB, 716x479, 1358141089424.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3496649

>>3496613

>> No.3496650

Truth.

>> No.3496652

>>3496618
lol

>> No.3496654

>>3496647
>Have a legitimate opinion
>SHOUT "TROLLL"

Yeah ok buddy suck a bag of dicks faggot.

>> No.3496656

>>3496649
I am not trolling what is wrong with you idiots?

Have you even heard his album? Everything i am saying is perfectly honest and fair this isnt a fucking joke so please dont take it as one.

>> No.3496657

>>3496613
8/10 right up until
>Sofocles

>> No.3496659

>>3496654
>I'm so upset again that someone might have a different opinion on some art or entertainment than I or my perception of cultured society! I'd better get all batthart and spend an hour or two trying to prove them wrong because it is important. It is especially important that I convince Anon of my opinion as he is unquestionably the person who wrote it

>> No.3496661

>>3496657
That was a typo dumbass ever had one?

>> No.3496666

>>3496659
Wrong, if you had a different opinion than me you could have just written out your thoughts as to why you disagreed with me. Instead you just came into the thread to shit it up and sage pointlessly.

>> No.3496685
File: 555 KB, 500x630, g7AxUCE.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3496685

>> No.3496693

>>3496656
Counterculture is so 1970's, the latest fad is a combo of sincerism and satire. If it doesn't imitate previous greats, it isn't art.
>mfw this is what /lit/ actually believes
Now to be an "individual":
Kanye West is pretty bad. He's made some good tracks, but most of it is watery shit. Atmosphere make beautiful, true music to which even the common man(see: pleb) can relate.

>> No.3496699

>>3496693
Tell me how many albums you have listened to by kanye west.

Its really hilarious how many people try to speak on kanye's music when they literally have not heard a single album.

>> No.3496713

>>3496693
How is kanye "pretty bad"? He has the most grammys of any rapper alive and has gone platinum or greater on every single album to date.

He is revered in the hip hop community to be the greatest rapper alive my many.

I can fathom why people even try to insult his competence as a musician.

>> No.3496715

This

>> No.3496716

>I can fathom

>> No.3496717

>>3496713
>mainstream

>> No.3496720

>>3496716
>blithering about nothing

>> No.3496722

>>3496720
>>>3496713

>> No.3496723

>>3496717
MUH INDIE UNDERGROUND ARTIST

MUH INDIVIDUALISM

MUH AMBIENT BLEEPS N BLOOPS

>> No.3496733

we /mu/ now

>> No.3496735

>>3496723
I can go deeper:
I listen to The Green In My Tea; you probably haven't heard of them.

>> No.3496737

>>3496693
It's like you haven't even listened to the album

>> No.3496739

>>3496733
No, we /radio-listeners/ now.

>> No.3496745

>>3496739
Im sure you have a point somewhere.

>> No.3496748

>>3496737
You can't not hear Kanye anymore; he's fucking everywhere.
>>3496745
If you like most of radio music, you are an absolute cretin.

>> No.3496752

>>3496745
Lol what's the point of you

>> No.3496760

>>3496752
>muh ad hominem

>> No.3496755

>>3496748
But how has his music been on the radio when he hasnt dropped a single in months?

Why are you spouting lies anon?

>> No.3496757

>>3496748
Power isn't the only song on it

>> No.3496759

>>3496733
/mu/ have taste; they'd never listen to this drivel.

>> No.3496763

>>3496760
>muh nonsense

>> No.3496764

>>3496759
p4k gave it a 10/10 and they listen to whatever p4k says.

>> No.3496765

>>3496759
But My Beautiful Dark twisted fantasy is on the /mu/ essenstials

Go to chanarchive and search for MBDTF there are many threads.

>> No.3496767

>>3496748
Name one public place/radio station/tv program that plays albums in their entirety?
>listening to a few singles and thinking you've heard everything there is to hear

>> No.3496773

>>3496764
What the Hell is a p4k?
>>3496764
>>3496765
I have now lost all faith in /mu/. Fukken' sheeple.

>> No.3496774
File: 1.62 MB, 895x1826, 250551_gods of mu.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3496774

>>3496759
>tfw you're wrong

>> No.3496776

>comparing two totally different media

Welcome to /lit/ where you're either trolling, shitposting, or sage-reporting in every thread.

Rerouting this discussion
>>>/b/
>>>/mu/

>> No.3496777

>>3496773
>I havent even listened to the album
>But i guess ill keep shit talking out of my ass to defend my irrelevant opinion

>> No.3496779

>>3496760
Please stop using "ad hominem" if you do not have a clue what it means.

>> No.3496783

>>3496776
Wrong idiot. They are both tragedies and they are both DIRECTLY comparable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy

>> No.3496784

>>3496779
uhhhh how about no? xD

>> No.3496786

>>3496693
ugh atmosphere is so bad though. boring music

>> No.3496788

>>3496786
but boring is a buzzword for people with bad opinions

>> No.3496792

>>3496783
>Wrong idiot.
I don't think she meant another idiot; I think she meant you.

>> No.3496793

Both of those things are good, and have very little if not nothing to do with each other.

>> No.3496794

>mfw buzzword is a buzzword
>"bad opinions"

>> No.3496798
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3496798

>shiggipedia

>> No.3496799

>>3496794
But poorly formed opinions are bad opinions.

Objectively bad

>> No.3496800

>>3496784
12 year old has evolved into 7 year old!

>> No.3496803

>>3496800
le sick brn XD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_burn_centers_in_the_United_States

>> No.3496811
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3496811

>>3496783

>Yeah, it's totally valid to compare the Dying Gaul to Schindler's List. The experience of both is the same

>> No.3496817

>>3496811
On the basis of evoking emotion it is.

Is there a reason why it would be?

>> No.3496821

>>3496817
wouldn't*

>> No.3496835

>>3496821
>putting the asterisk after the correction

>> No.3496841

>>3496835
is this some new meme where we babble about nothing XD

>> No.3496854

What are you people doing on my c/lit/?!
I thought this was the one safe haven from /4chan/'s usual retardation...

>> No.3496860
File: 1.07 MB, 1832x4146, 1361565618626.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3496860

hot off the presses

>> No.3496858

>>3496841
I wasn't born this new.

>> No.3496867

>>3496841
Is this some new meme where we act like we are a 10 year old who just discovered emoticons and wants to show them off to all our friends? XD :P :D xD

>> No.3496875

>>3496860
>tfw you have heard all those records

>> No.3496887

>>3496875
Same, but for some reason I don't feel like it's anything worth bragging about.

>> No.3496889

>>3496860
>Bebop AND Big Band
Neat.

>> No.3496894

>>3496860
where is this from its all trash

>> No.3496898

Kanye is really good. It's dumb to just cast his music just because it's mainstream. He is genuinely talented at what he does. There's a difference between not liking the music style and hating Kanye. College Dropout is his best album though

>> No.3496900

>>3496894
,

>> No.3496949

tupac, biggie, jay z, young jeezy, lil wayne, bun b, pimp c, mannie fresh, drake, asap rocky, pusha t, b.o.b, gambino, lil b, wutang, kanye, j.skeezy, lil debbie public enemy, gucci mane, 2 chainz, kendrick lamar, dmx, xv, antiks, m3, rick ross, wale, currency, andre 3k, soulja boy, 50 cent

they're all the fucking same

>> No.3497003

>>3496949
lol

>> No.3497205

bump all of /lit/ needs to see this greatness

>> No.3497260

>>3496613
But you could make this claim about anything that makes you feel.

>> No.3497268
File: 14 KB, 220x211, 220px-De-Loused_in_the_Comatorium.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3497268

>2013
>not listening to concept albums

pic related.
now that is some interesting shit.
you can download a pdf version of the storybook if you google it.

tl;dr version:

>guy named cerpin taxt takes rat poison(first song)
>overdoses
>falls into coma for 7 days
>walks through a "dream wolrd", experiencing shit
>wakes up and kills himself by jumping from a bridge(televators)

based on a true story.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRdZP5JKviQ

>> No.3497269

>>3497260
Exactly.

>> No.3497281

/lit/ - music

>> No.3497286

>>3497269
Then why use Kanye?

>> No.3497299

>>3496759
it's /mu/core you retard
lurk moar

>> No.3497301

>>3497260
so true

>> No.3497304

ITT: opinions

and this >>3497281

>> No.3497307

>>3497268
>rat poison
do you even TMV?

laughing_cedric.jpg

>> No.3497339

so maybe it's better because of its capacity to evoke "feels" but not by much. this guy is marrying kim kardashian. he's trite. so that means that his work can really only evoke so much emotion from me.

people like you are the reason why i've seriously considered suicide at times. i don't want to live in a world where people like you feel like your existence is the highest attainment of human history

>> No.3497375
File: 805 KB, 1284x1533, Vivaldi_Antonio.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3497375

this nigger is not a musical genius.


get some standards, normalfags, enjoy your normalfag music.

>> No.3497376
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3497376

>>3497339
woah, watch those edges!

>> No.3497383

I use to think swans was high music until I discovered classical.

anything that isn't classical is shit

>> No.3497391

>>3497383
bunch of fags playing bits of wood with horse pubes ain't high art nigguh. It's the new plebe.

>> No.3497400

>>3497391
No.

>> No.3497407

>>3497400
err, yes, actually. Gtfo, non-patrician

>> No.3497412

>>3497407
>>wahhh i'm a retard
>wahh what is this "music theory" shit
>fuckin music symbols
>i want big bigger cock up my asshole oh fuck my kayne nigger
>piano is too hard that's why it's shit

>> No.3497416

>>3497339
His personality is irrelevant to the argument.

All of us, including Kanye, are aware he's a smug cunt.

>> No.3497421

>>3497416
enjoy your trite nigger and his wigger music

frank zappa and classical, that's it.

>> No.3497429

>>3497416
Screams from the haters, got a nice ring to it.
I guess every superhero needs their theme music

love muh kanye

>> No.3497433
File: 271 KB, 499x521, 1350681352287.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3497433

>>3497412

>> No.3497434

>>3497421
>>3497421
I don't like Kanyes music..

>> No.3497440

>>3497433
>>3497433
>worshipping a sociopath animal abusing nigger
>one that didn't even dare touch humans like ted bundy

wigger

>> No.3497446

>>3497421
Frank Zappa isn't nigger music? Classical is the highest musical expression of man along with folk music.

>> No.3497447
File: 595 KB, 500x730, 1346105606171.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3497447

>>3497440
>nigger
how do you get away with been so darn edgy, anon?!

>> No.3497457

>>3497440
are you...mentally ill?

>> No.3497486

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TJuCm_qhcY

>> No.3497650

If I were a mod Id ban you all. /mu/ scum.