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/lit/ - Literature

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3462492 No.3462492 [Reply] [Original]

Hey, /lit/, I'm new to this board and I would like to know what you guys think about fantasy books like The Name of the Wind and The Malazan Book of the Fallen series. I personally prefer the latter but both are god-tier in my opinion. Also, It's been some time since I read something and I wanted to start getting into fantasy again, so what are some good books you would recommend?

>> No.3462509

Generally like the latter, dislike the former. Read Abercrombie and Bakker.

>> No.3462508

Anybody?

>> No.3462513

Name of the wind sucked

>> No.3462518

>>3462513
Care to elaborate?

>> No.3462519

The chronicles of Master Li and Number 10 ox

>> No.3462523

>>3462518

No.

>> No.3462527

>>3462523
Then your argument is not valid, sorry.

>> No.3462528

Name of the Wind is YA fantasy.

Malazan is good but hard to get into.

Bakker's Prince of Nothing/Second Apocalypse is great.

Never got into Abercrombie's fantasy trilogy.

The Acacia trilogy is good.

Never got past the first book of the Wheel of Time, though I thought it was decent.

I used to like ASOIAF but I'm not sure how I feel about it now. I haven't read the series in a while.

>> No.3462537

>>3462527

What argument?

>> No.3462540

>>3462537
Exactly, a non-existent argument is not valid.

>> No.3462545

>>3462540

But it was a fact.

>> No.3462551
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3462551

>>3462540

>responding to a troll

>> No.3462554

Like I say, people around here tend not to like Name of the Wind

characters unrealistic, main character a blatant Mary Sue, only thinly clothed by a bullshit meaningless attempt at making him an 'unreliable narrator', horrible romance storylines, generally very juvenile

>> No.3462561

>>3462528
Thank you for that post, and yes, the Malazan series is a bit hard to get into especially the first book because it talks about many things that haven't described to a full extent yet, but Steven Erikson manages to recreate a believable world and an epic story that eventually sucks you in.

>> No.3462562

Prince of Nothing
Arcaca
Shadowmarch
Farseer
Wheel of Time
First Law
Black Company
Mistborn
Gentlemen Bastard (currently reading)
The Demon Cycle
The Way of Kings

>> No.3462565

The Name of the Wind was okay, have not really felt the need to check out the second one.

The Malazan series is amazing. Probably my favorite fantasy series, unless GRRM manages to wrap up ASOIAF in an amazing way.

>> No.3462576

Yeah, people keep recommending Malazan.

I've read reviews and it seems fucking awesome but the first book is so dense...

>> No.3462582

>>3462576
It never really gets less dense, but it does get somewhat more understandable and a good bit better.

>> No.3462624 [DELETED] 

>>3462554
>Characters unrealistic
That's arguable, I thought they were well portrayed, perhaps a bit stereotyped, but unique nonetheless. I don't know even know what criteria was followed to be tagged as unrealistic.

>Main character a blatant Mary Sue, only thinly clothed by a bullshit meaningless attempt at making him an unreliable narrator.
What do you mean bullshit meaningless attempt? That's the thing of the whole story, doubting on whether the character is believable or not, whether what you are being told is the truth. I don't think it was uncalled for, or unnecessary, it might serve of purpose in the future.

>Horrible romance storylines
There you are actually right, the romance scenes were terribly forced and uncalled for to the point that they ruined the pacing of the story.

Anyways, the aspects you mentioned are those that are the weakest in the book. I thought Patrick's storytelling and the poetic way he describes the natural beauty of the Commonwealth area and how every region has its own distinct culture and customs is outstanding.

>> No.3462637

Mistborn is a given, great series.
Wheel of time is decent if you have the stomach for a lot of chapters about unlikable characters doing boring stuff.
Not sure if they are readily availiable in English, but most books by Nick Perumov are brilliant.
Way of Kings is great as well, if you can stand it not being finished in any forseeable future whatsoever.

>> No.3462660
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3462660

>>3462637
>Mistborn is a given, great series.
>Way of Kings is great as well

>> No.3462707

I find it weird how everyone always criticizes Kvothe for being a huge Mary-Sue, but don't say the same for Kaladin (incredibly intelligent, special powers, glows, natural leader, honorable, kills the strongest warriors with just a spear).

But then again, what is a Mary Sue?

>> No.3462776

>>3462707
personally I don't think there's anything bad with a character being a Mary Sue, depending on how much it affects the story, which doesn't when it comes to Kvote, mostly because you constantly doubt whether what you are being told is the truth or not

>> No.3462784

>>3462707
Well, in the case of Kaladin it still amounts to nothing at the end of the day, which lessens the amount of Mary-Sue-ness (or whatever you'd call it).

Kvothe on the other hand just runs around flaunting his gifts all the time, and still doesn't amount to anything.

>> No.3462809

>>3462707
Because we saw how Kaladin acutally started out as a fucking failure and actually had to train and practice the shit he has become proficient in.
>incredibly intelligent
It's more about knowledge. Again, he actually studied and practiced, and, more importantly, we saw him do it.
>special powers
He has precisely one, with three subtypes, of which he currently can use only one and has no idea of the others or how to use them.
>glows
Part of his power. Also that's more gay than Mary-Sue...
>natural leader
At first he wasn't. So nothing natural about it.
>honorable
Did you read the book? Or was that a joke?
>kills the strongest warriors with just a spear
Got me there, but it's high/epic/heroic fantasy, so I, at least, don't see a problem with that. But yeah sure, I'll give ye that.

Kvothe on the other hand is a virgin that fucks the goddess of sex and she wouldn't believe him to be a virgin because he was just that good at it. Also he knows all magic and is super awesome at it, and went to a school he shouldn't have been allowed to attend and finished at an age before others even started. Also he keeps telling me how poor he is and that I could never understand, yet he never lacks any basic needs and plays all instrument with such proficiency that he can finish the most complicated song with a broken one and thus earn more money in a given hour than kings can collect taxes in a year.

Kaladin might be a little Mary-Sue, all due, but fuck god damn it, he doesn't compare at all to Kvothe's massive bullshit.

>> No.3462831

>>3462809
But that's because Kvothe's story is told through Kvothe himself, which gives benefit for the doubt. What he's telling to us might not be the truth in all certainty, which makes him a very doubtable Mary Sue.

>> No.3462836

>>3462809
>Got me there, but it's high/epic/heroic fantasy, so I, at least, don't see a problem with that.
To explain, I don't have a problem with that because, although he was born the perfect fighter, it doesn't help him much. He gets his ass punished often enough that his successes become actually relevant. He had to practice just as much as the next guy, he just learned faster.
In the end, he still just barely wins the final (in the first book) battle, and it's definitely not a complete victory. Never does he outright win, but scrapes along and gets the leftovers.

>> No.3462840

>>3462831
Yup. You are right with that. But I ain't falling for it. In the end Kvothe is Rothfuss' wish fullfillment. I don't care if Kvothe is an unreliable narrator if it doesn't, at all, affect the story told.
I can take his stories with a grain of salt, pretend that the things really didn't happen the way I read them, but that doesn't change the Mary-Sue bullshit I actually read for hours and hours and hours and hours.

>> No.3462868

>>3462840
Well, I guess that you have to look at it from the point of view that it's a young adult novel, so in no way is he going to be anything other than an idolized hero, but I don't find it annoying, because while the way he sometimes manages to solve his problems are bullshit, Patrick's storytelling can be at times described as poetic in my opinion. He manages to create a believable world with different regions and cultures. The way magic works within the world of "The Name of the Wind" is also groundbreaking, it makes the whole spell-casting notion so much more complex and gives it a more scientific approach.

>> No.3462899
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3462899

>>3462868
>Magic works like a vodoo doll, or by saying somethings "True name"
>Groundbreaking

No, not really.

>> No.3462944

>>3462899

It was part Earthsea and something else.

Defiently not groundbreaking.

>> No.3462950

>>3462899
>>3462944

Well, yeah, but it implies that there are a lot of possible complications to it, it's not like you can cast the spells out of nowhere. Previous preparation and scheming is needed to be able to make something work out. I know the core concept isn't original, but applying it to the fantasy genre where everything is filled with classic clichés is groundbreaking in my opinion.

>> No.3462970

Unreliable narration is a terrible writing tool and I haven't read a single book that uses it, extensively, and enjoyed it. The use of unreliable narration basically saps the main character of the primary focus of interest i.e. how they overcome adversity. Now I am not saying that such stories lack adversity, in fact they usually have tons of it, but it lacks emphasis. You know the character is going to surmount it with ease and come out with flying colours. It's boring and a boring story is a shit story.

>> No.3462994

>>3462950

it's a cliche in its own right though?

>> No.3463043

Malazan is a great series. The first book is tough for people to get into because you are thrown in pretty much in the middle of A story. You are seeing differing factions, spies, "ninja" what a damn good series.

>> No.3463056

>>3462809
It's been a while since I've read the name of the wind and wise man's fear, but your arguments can go both ways.

>Because we saw how Kaladin acutally started out as a fucking failure and actually had to train and practice the shit he has become proficient in.
>It's more about knowledge. Again, he actually studied and practiced, and, more importantly, we saw him do it.
We saw Kvothe studying with Ben and learning to fight (yet still failing to beat a little girl) in Ademre.

>Kvothe on the other hand is a virgin that fucks the goddess of sex and she wouldn't believe him to be a virgin because he was just that good at it. Also he knows all magic and is super awesome at it, and went to a school he shouldn't have been allowed to attend and finished at an age before others even started. Also he keeps telling me how poor he is and that I could never understand, yet he never lacks any basic needs and plays all instrument with such proficiency that he can finish the most complicated song with a broken one and thus earn more money in a given hour than kings can collect taxes in a year.
I agree with the stuff on him being poor, it's meant to just be a plotdevice to get him to do certain things. Regarding magic, he's actually not that powerful in wise man's fear anymore in comparison to others, Fela and Devi are better than him at naming and sympathetic magic respectively and anyone from Ademre can school him in martial arts.
He's an extraordinary person who, despite all the talent he shows, still ends up as Kote, an innkeeper who lost his magic and can hardly wrestle a man to the floor.

The same criticisms keep coming back and they're valid in a way, but still only minor. Does him being good at sex for some reason make the whole story shit? Rothfuss' prose is better than Sanderson's, and the story is imo a lot more fun to read because it contains a lot of hints and portents as to where the story is going.

>> No.3463086

Read A Song of Ice and Fire, preferably before the new season airs on tv so you'll avoid spoilers everywhere. Not so much fantasy but it's a good series.

>> No.3463190

>>3462970
Well, but the unreliable narrator can be a very useful tool, of course, depending on how you use it. If you show that the narrator is in fact wrong and allow the reader a view on the actual events, in one way or another, then they can form their own opinions about the narrator and thus can later interpret the unreliable parts. You can use that to whatever ends you deem desirable and necessary to tell your story.
It's when the reader is left with no framework but a vague "yeah, that guy tells a story so he is unreliable" (yet everything works out perfectly fine every god damn single time, the case with Kvothe) that it becomes utter shit and totally useless.

Especially with Kvothe, where Rothfuss initially gives us hints that the legends only faintly correspond to any real incidents and are grossly exaggerated, but later completely ignores that notion in favor of depicting Kvothe as the legend come alive.

So ... what I wanna say is: unreliable narrator can be good, Kvothe is shit.

>> No.3463220

Honestly.

The Name of the Wind was too slow for me. I abandoned it. It was also developing in high fantasy which I'm not so fond of.

The Malazan Book of the Fallen is decent. I've gotten through the first two books. I'm not keen on continuing though; not until I can find more worthwhile endeavors.

As an example, a few I liked more would be:

The First Law
A Song Of Ice and Fire
Monarchies of God

>> No.3463227

>>3463056
>We saw Kvothe studying with Ben and learning to fight (yet still failing to beat a little girl) in Ademre.
He still learns ultra secret mega stuff from guys for who it is the greatest sin to share their secret techniques with strangers.

You are right, though. I do think, however, that Kvothe is a much more apparent Mary-Sue than Kaladin. (The only reason for why I barged in.)

>> No.3463436

>>3462840
>>3462970
But there's so much more to the story apart from how Kvothe becomes a renowned hero, that unreliable narration is great for creating tension because in the present of the novel something evil is awakening and it's there where we will know whether Kvothe has been telling the truth and whether they will be able to defeat it. It's not that much Kvothe's story as it is what's happening in the present. We know that Kvothe's adversities will be overcome because if they weren't he wouldn't be there telling his stories, but we don't know if he will in the future.

>> No.3463444

>>3463190
read >>3463436

>> No.3463447

sup pat

>> No.3463469 [DELETED] 

My girlfriend recently read these books, they sound pretty cool but I'm not really into the fantasy genre. Also, I told her about /lit/ a couple weeks ago...OP, does your name begin with an M?

>> No.3463477

>>3462492
>Name of the Wind
worst piece of shit i've ever readed
>>3462513
>>3462518
not >>3462513 but basicly protagonist is stupid emo kid who happens to be the good at every fucking thing he ever tries, he is also super emo—the world itself is blatant and not even fully planned, no history or careful design involved

>> No.3463482

OP, does your first name begin with an M?

>> No.3463483

>>3463482
No, why?

>> No.3463485
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3463485

>>3463477
>readed

>> No.3463489

>>3463483
Does your first name begin with a P?

>> No.3463491

>>3463483
Someone I know whose name begins with an M recently read the Kingkiller Chronicle, plus I introduced her to /lit/ just the other week.

>> No.3463495

>>3463491
>Introducing a woman to 4chan
Fuck
You

>> No.3463497

>>3463436
That's all good and nice. As it stands I read like 2000 pages of Mary Sue bullshit. You paint the payoff as worth enough the effort of reading that much shit; I don't care if in the end Kvothe is actually human and not a super rock star hero, especially when what let up to it was extremely childish escapism.
It's still a major waste of time. That also includes all the time you wait for the next book.

Not talking about the language, btw, just the content.

>> No.3463502

>>3463495
Fuck me! fuckmefuckmefuckmeeee
>whine harder

>> No.3463507

>>3463502
A-are you okay?

>> No.3463514

>>3463507
No, Onii-Chan. H-hold me...

>> No.3463526

>>3463491
ask her if she will be my gf

>> No.3463530

Does anyone think a story about mages fighting for power would be naturally childish or could I make it work?

>> No.3463535

>>3463526
Anon you fool!

Ask if she's hot first

>> No.3463550

>>3463497
I understand, I guess it just depends on tastes. I won't argue that there isn't Mary-sue shit, but as much as it makes the story terribly predictable there are a lot of many other characters that aren't. Many might find this boring and quite the push to have to read and wait that much to get to the real story, but I don't find that the story drags, it's just being told as an epic story instead of a realistic story.

>> No.3463551

>>3463489
Yes...

>> No.3463589

>>3463550
I assume mostly everything in fantasy is Mary Sue, one way or another. So that really can't be the determining factor of quality. On that note, any fiction is Mary Sue, other than the super edgy croud. (Which can yet again be interpreted as another kind of Mary Sue.) Whatever. I will probably read the last book anyway, just cause. Doesn't make it any better though.

>it's just being told as an epic story instead of a realistic story.
I do have to disagree here. Epic does not necessarily equal unrealistic.

>> No.3463597

>>3463589
I meant epic in terms of medieval epic, where the hero is a stereotype that must save a stereotyped damsel in distress from the enemy who is also stereotyped. The hero kills the enemy and takes the mistress and everything ends happily. That sort of epic.

>> No.3463603
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3463603

>>3463589
>I assume mostly everything in fantasy is Mary Sue, one way or another.

>> No.3463666

I thought The Name of The Wind was an excellent book, and I devoured the sequel too. I think that I had just finished ISOIAF was a factor; being able to read two chapters in a row with the same character was a nice change after 5 books of jumping around. I love ASOIAF, but it a change of style was welcome.

I can understand the Mary-sue argument if you didn't particularly enjoy the book, and I completely agree that the romance is horrible ("omg first girl who gave me attention, I am in love forever+1") but it still kept me interested all the way through.

As for recommendations, check out The Mistborn Series. Very enjoyable. The Farseer Trilogy is also fantastic.

>> No.3463816

>Reading Fantasy intentionally written in series format
>>>/tg/