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/lit/ - Literature

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3457865 No.3457865 [Reply] [Original]

>Call me Ishmael.

Why is this considered one of the greatest opening lines in literature?

>> No.3457868

Because it's not a description of weather

>> No.3457869

Because it represents the entire mode by which the framework of operation within multiple perspectives is compiled into one linear path via an approximate estimation of the rough moral character represented of Ishmael.

>> No.3457871

>>3457868
Or the time of day
Or what someone was wearing, what they looked like, how they made the author feel

>> No.3457872

>>3457865
because before that point they put the main character's name at the end of books and it was all terribly confusion. Melville shook up convention and decided to try narrative where we know the guys name up front. And it worked.

>> No.3457874

>>3457872
10/10

>> No.3457875

basically it's what hemmngway does but way before hemingway did it

>> No.3457879

>>3457868
>>3457871

Plebs. You want to know why these are the most common introductions? They work. They get the audience interested in the scene and what's happening.

>> No.3457885

>>3457879
>They work
Yeah, no.

>> No.3457889

>>3457879
Maybe for simple-minded creatures such as yourself.

That's why the commentators on the sports networks always introduce themselves at the beginning of each show. Otherwise, how are we supposed to remember??!

>> No.3457893

>>3457879
>Plebs

>> No.3457895

>call me maybe

>> No.3457898

>>3457889

>Simple-minded creatures.

>> No.3457901

>>3457889
>2011
>still thinks that complexity is better than simplicity
pls

>> No.3457902

>>3457885

Prove me wrong. What's more interesting?

"It was a pale sunny afternoon with a brisk, cloudy sky and the tree were roaring with the cold wind that was coming from the southside."

or

"My name is Patrick."

>> No.3457904

>>3457889

>Simple-minded

Don't tell me you actually buy into the pretentious garbage that is postmodern literature.

Let's all laugh. LAUGH AT THE MORON!

>> No.3457906

>>3457902
both are shit

>> No.3457908

I've never read or heard that this is a "great opening line in literature".

Are you sure you're not mistaking recognizability for greatness?

Or is this a fairly well engineered troll?

>> No.3457910

>>3457906

So, "My name is Patrick" is shit, but "Call me Ishmael" is brilliance?

I think you need to get your brain checked. You're showing serious symptoms of retardation.

>> No.3457912

>>3457904
>Moby Dick
>Post-modernism

No

>> No.3457913

>>3457910
I never said that "Call me Ishmael" is good.

>> No.3457915

>>3457902
the latter assuming the following sentence just as to-the-point and informative

>> No.3457919

>>3457912

Moby-Dick is symbolic and allegorical.

If that isn't postmodern, I don't know what is.

>>3457913

THEN WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING IN THIS CONVERSATION?!

OUT, OUT I SAY!

>> No.3457931

It gives us a complete sense of who Ishmael is. We can't be sure of who he is, only what we call him, which continues forward. From the name, we get an idea of who he might be through an associating with the Bible. The name commands a heritage. It sets the atmosphere. It's a great opening line.

>> No.3457932

fuck the epic of gilgamesh and other postmodern nonsense

>> No.3457934

>>3457919

hey faggot i get more ass in a week than you get in your entire lifetime.

i fuck 10/10 glorious bitches, just to dump 'em the next morning.

i purposely eat food that gives me diarrhea, just to feel the pain to remind myself i'm alive.

i make so much cash that muthafucka no im a rich muthafucka.

so fuck off faggot.

>> No.3457939

>>3457919
>If that isn't postmodern, I don't know what is.

This is a polite public service announcement.

You do not know what postmodernism is

>> No.3457941

>>3457902
In that first sentence, what's the purpose of starting with all that information? Is it the most important information I can be getting at that moment, does it provide characterization? Explain the setting? Anything? At least with the second sentence I know that the story is in first person point-of-view, the protagonist's name, with a bit of characterization (Why does he begin in this manner?) thrown in to get me interested.

>> No.3457946

>>3457941

The first sentence is meant to draw you into the scenery and to immerse yourself in what's going on. The second sentence is merely stating a guy's name.

Are you fuckers honestly trying to tell me that you think the second sentence is better writing than the first?

>> No.3457951

>>3457946
It's like genre fiction, right? I don't care about the story, I don't care about meaning, immerse me!

There is a place for that and that place isn't great.

>> No.3457952

>>3457951

How are you supposed to care about the characters, the plot, the meaning, the subtext, or any of that shit if you aren't actually immersed in what's going on?

This is like Writing 101, Jesus Christ.

>> No.3457957

>>3457952
"Call me Ishmael"
Immediately has me thinking, why am I calling him Ishmael? Is his real name Ishmael? Is this allegory? Does this have to do with a Biblical Ishmael? Is this narrator sure of himself? It's a puzzling beginning. It's immersive as anything and becomes even more immersive as you read onward, something that comes naturally from such a short three words. It grabs you in question without questioning.

>> No.3457961

>>3457946
The first sentence doesn't do anything important. It give me the time of day and a notion of the weather. Why is this stuff the first information I'm getting? Why can't it be farther down the page below the actual meat of the story. You need to think of the first sentence, paragraph, page of a piece of fiction like the lead for a news story. The most important information needs to come first and generally the most important information tends to deal with characters, what they're doing, what they're feeling, what they're names are, etc. Neither example is particularly packed with information, but the second just does more than the first.

>> No.3457962

>>3457902
"Call me Ishmael" is more interesting than either.

>> No.3457965

>>3457952
Actually, you're arguing the exact opposite of what any composition class will quickly teach you.

>> No.3457977

>>3457957

Okay, fair enough. I'll go with entire paragraphs, and then we'll see which one's better.

"It was a pale sunny afternoon with a brisk, cloudy sky and the tree were roaring with the cold wind that was coming from the southside. The rickedy hickedy clank of the rough and damaged steel wheels of the polished wooden cart that me and my friends were riding in pierced my ears like a sword pierces its foe with lighting-fast intensity in a storm of red blood and innards spewing out of him like the very fabric that makes up his being. I turned to the old, grimy, wrinkly man sitting next to me, and offered him a sip of my warm black tea that I had heated the hour prior. He was trembling like a nervous cat and I felt a pang of sympathy rush through my breast, reminding me of the time when I had stopped sucking my mother's teat and I had shaken just like that."

or

"My name is Patrick. My favorite drink is vodka. Tonight I was having a big glass of pure vodka, and I don't want you judging me for it. You don't know the hell I've been through over the past 48 hours, and you probably don't want to know. That's not gonna stop me from telling you, though."

If you think the second sentence is better, you are retarded.

>> No.3457980

>>3457977
These are both awful.

>> No.3457983

>>3457977
They're both bad, but at least the second one is somewhat readable.

>> No.3457985

>>3457977
I'm not judging your homework, kid.

>> No.3457989

>>3457980
>>3457983

I give up. You're both clearly brain damaged.

>> No.3457997

>>3457989

Also, just so you know, Hemmingway wrote the first paragraph, faggots. Yeah. You know who wrote the second one? Stephanie. Fucking. Meyer.

You wanna change your minds on which is the superior paragraph now?

>> No.3457999

>>3457989
It's a bad argument anyway since we began by talking about opening lines. Compare either of those to the Dick and you're fucked.

>> No.3458003

>>3457977
What the fuck are you arguing?

"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago -- never mind how long precisely -- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world. It is a way I have of driving off the spleen, and regulating the circulation. Whenever I find myself growing grim about the mouth; whenever it is a damp, drizzly November in my soul; whenever I find myself involuntarily pausing before coffin warehouses, and bringing up the rear of every funeral I meet; and especially whenever my hypos get such an upper hand of me, that it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off -- then, I account it high time to get to sea as soon as I can. This is my substitute for pistol and ball. With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship. There is nothing surprising in this. If they but knew it, almost all men in their degree, some time or other, cherish very nearly the same feelings towards the ocean with me."

>> No.3458004

>>3457997
>cherry picking your excerpts

I've not even posted in this thread yet, but this doing this is intellectually lazy.

>> No.3458005

>>3457997
No, they did not.

>> No.3458010

>>3458005

Got any evidence faggot, or are you just talking our your ass?

>> No.3458012

>>3457977
It's hard to believe you're not trolling at this point, but...

That first paragraph is fucking wretched. Everything is forgettable and I get lost through the second paragraph with that overwrote simile and the series of adjectives heaped on the old man. Again I have to ask, why am I getting the fucking weather first? I admit, it might be a tad more interesting if the first sentence was moved to the end and the descriptions were tempered a bit. Why not just write, "My friends and I listened to the clank of the damaged wheels of the cart as it toiled over the stone and earth..."

The second paragraph, while trying really hard to sound juvenile at least heaps on the characterization. I don't like Patrick so much, but I don't need to. He can be juvenile. I am a bit curious why he's so damned set on spinning a yarn for me.

>> No.3458015

>>3457902

>The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel.

>> No.3458016

>>3458010
Hemingway sure as hell did not write that in opening anything I've read by him. If it's an except from when he was very young or something like that then it's still terrible.

>> No.3458024

>>3458012

How can you fucking say this shit? The first paragraph is basically the perfect opening. It explains the scenery to get you immersed, it introduces you to the character by getting his perspective on things, and you learn a thing or two about the situation he's in while simultaneously wanting to learn more.

>> No.3458029

>>3458024
yeah except it's shittily written as hell

>> No.3458030

>>3458016

Anecdotal evidence faggot. Try again.

>> No.3458031

>>3458024
Uh...okay, yeah, you're trolling.

>> No.3458033

>>3458030
It wasn't written by Hemingway you chud. A quick google search proves that.

>> No.3458034

>>3458029

HOW CAN YOU FUCKERS SAY THIS SHIT?!

I SPEND LIKE, SIX FUCKING YEEARS WORKING ON THIS FUCKER AND YOU FUCKING FAGGOTS TELL ME ITS SHIT? FUCK YOU UYOUR JUST A BUCNH OF PRETENCIOUS ELITIST HIPSTER DOUCHES FUCK YOU I FUCKING HATE YOUR SHIT

>> No.3458037

>>3458024
>pierced my ears like a sword pierces its foe with lighting-fast intensity in a storm of red blood and innards spewing out of him like the very fabric that makes up his being

lol

>> No.3458038

>>3458030
I don't know what you want, man.

I think you wrote both of those intros.

>> No.3458044

>>3458024
The weather better be fucking important if you're going to start with it. I'm talking flood. I'm talking blizzard. Anything having to do with the main plot. If it's not, start with the characters, the friends in the cart. And for gods' sake don't call any writing perfect when it contains a simile of thirty fucking words. It's like you're taking writing lessons from Damon Atkinson

>> No.3458045

>>3458034
Get bored, did ya?

>> No.3458046

>>3458034
>/lit/

>> No.3458048

>>3458044

THE WEATHER IS TO FUCKING IMMERSE YOU

And as for the similie, I don't know what you guys are complaining about. Despite what Stephen King's On Writing says, colorful similies aren't inherently bad.

>> No.3458051

>>3458048

who the fuck needs weather to get immersed in a scene though? that's luxury stuff, doesn't need to be anywhere but where you have a really good idea for it

you don't have any good ideas for it.

>> No.3458053

>>3458048
That opening was obtuse and tedious. Read more.

>> No.3458059

>>3458048
>The weather is to fucking immerse you
It doesn't. I just wonder why the narrator thought it was so important I needed to hear about it first. It's doing the exact opposite of immersing me.

>Colorful similes aren't inherently bad.
Sure. However, this one is.

>> No.3458060

>>3458053
>>3458051

Stop bullying me fuckers, I'm trying by best and you're not being helpful you're just making fun of me for mentioning the weather and for using ONE simile.

>> No.3458062

>>3458060
one really badly written simile

>> No.3458063

>>3458051
Hemingway did use weather and scenery. It sets symbolic atmosphere to great effect. It has place even in minimalism.

>> No.3458066
File: 26 KB, 223x255, 1354773636313.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3458066

>>3458060
You posted your shit on /lit/, what the fuck did you expect?

>> No.3458069

>>3458062

IT'S NOT BAD WRITTEN YOU DENSE FUCKER, IT'S TO EXPRESS THE VIOLENT AND OFTEN PAST-MINDED BRAIN OF THE NARRATOR

FUCK STOP BEING SO MEAN

>> No.3458072

>>3458060
I'm not bullying you. I'm critiquing your writing. As a point of interest, your behavior is exactly why workshops forbid the writer from speaking until the end. No one wants your justifications or excuses. We want to tell you what works and doesn't work, in our opinions. Hopefully to your benefit.

>> No.3458073

>>3458069
oh i get it, it's not badly written, it's an in-character narration of a character who's a bad writer?

>> No.3458075

>>3457919
no, you don't know what it is.

funnily enough though Melville DID write arguably one of the first postmodernist novels in "The Confidence-Man"

>> No.3458076

>>3458063
Don't get us wrong. I don't think anyone hear is claiming you can never write about the weather. But scenery is rarely if ever the most important thing to start a story, novel, whatever with. Save that stuff for later.

>> No.3458080

GOAT coming through:

"A screaming comes across the sky."

>> No.3458081

>>3458072

Yeah, you're critquing my writing that's why your saying it sucks and that I'm obese, right.

Fuck, man, I wouldn't have posted this shit if I knew you guys were going to be such monsters about it.

>> No.3458086

>>3458081

>oh no, someone on the internet doesn't like what I've written on a moments notice.

>> No.3458087

>>3458073

He's not a writer. he's the expert hunter and blacksmith for his village.

wtf are you talking about

>> No.3458088

>>3458086

I'm not saying you have to like it.

Just dont call me obese and say it sucks and shit. I'm autistic and we take things like that really personally.

>> No.3458089

>>3458080
Fuck yeah, Gravity's Rainbow hooked me instantly with that line.

>> No.3458091

>>3458081
>>3458087
I can't tell if you're serious.

>>3458080
>first sentence of Mason & Dixon
Possibly the best opening I've ever read. It's lengthy and i don't feel like typing it though.

>> No.3458093

>>3458081
Well, to be completely fair, you didn't present this as your writing and were unnecessarily combative to boot. Once you said it was yours, I pulled up on my language. I also never called you fat. But you know what, in workshop sometimes people are going to fucking eviscerate your writing. Better kill your darlings now, or you'll never make it.

>> No.3458095

>>3458088
...I think that the word used was "obtuse" and not "obese".

>> No.3458098

>>3458091

OF COURSE I'M SERIOUS YOU IDIOT THIS IS MY FUCKING WRITING MY PASSION WHY WOULDN'T i BE SERIOUS

>>3458093

I get that, just dont be so mean and don't be bully and shit is all I'm saying.

>> No.3458100

>>3458091
>screaming comes across the sky
>Mason & Dixon

ISHYDDT

>> No.3458102

>>3458095

What's the difference.

>> No.3458105

>>3458098
This reply is exactly why I suspect you're not serious.

>>3458100
Reread my post until you understand it.

>> No.3458107

>>3458080
This is great because it plays off the weather thing so hard.

>> No.3458108
File: 30 KB, 576x416, 1350709318126.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3458108

>>3458102
>>3458102
>>3458102

>> No.3458109

>>3458105

I don't understand. Do you actually tink i'm pathetic enough to sir around and waste my time pretending to be an aspiring writer whos getting bullied for no good reason? what the fuck?

>> No.3458111

>>3458105
Oh I see, you were referencing his other novel's entrance, and not confusing the two. Excellent, my apologies.

>> No.3458114

>>3458108

I dont get it.

I thought obtuse angles were those angles that my maths teacher called fat. so...isnt calling me obtuse calling me fat?

>> No.3458115

>>3458098
How about you toughen the fuck up instead. I'm pretty nice, as workshop colleagues go. And you know what I'm doing right now? I'm critiquing a manuscript. It's Twilight as set in Hawthorne, NV. It's killing me. And while I'll be charitable come workshop, that poor writer is going to be reduced to tears if they can't hang.

>> No.3458116

>>3458115

If you actually got a chance to read the rets of my chapter, you'd see its a brilliant character study of a man who never gets anything out of life and yet always tries his best knowing he'll fail.

>> No.3458118

>>3458114
The word obtuse means dull, blunt, in a bad way given the context above, which makes it "difficult to follow/understand".

>> No.3458120

>>3458116
Maybe. Though, I don't care what you have to say about it. Not yet anyway.

>> No.3458121

>>3458109
Yes. You shine with "aspergian radiance". Although you might just be trolling. Entertaining either way.

>>3458111
No worries.

>> No.3458122
File: 15 KB, 230x207, brianblesseddemandsabloodsacrifice.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3458122

>>3458034

>> No.3458123

>>3458118

That's even worse hes calling me dull!

fuck man, you guys are so mean...

>>3458120

Why are you picking on me my writing isnt even bad and I didnt even say anything mean.

>> No.3458126

>>3458122

Thanks for laughing at my pain you sosiopathic dick.

>> No.3458127

>>3458123
It's at least crit on your writing, and not the ad hominem attack you thought it to be.

If you want to be a writer, even on the side, get used to ANYONE picking apart your shit, no matter how many years or hours or whatever effort you put into it. Don't come here and expect us to praise it because you think it's good.

>> No.3458128

>>3458123
I'm not picking on you. I just don't care what you have to say about your writing. Death of the author and all that.

>> No.3458132

>>3458127

But you guys dont have to act like jerks about it i'm doing my best...

>>3458128

Hey faggot I can bench 140, and work out three times a day. I regularly grind cheese on my rockhard abs, and I fuck my 9/10 GF six times a day. you think i'm pathetic and deserve to die? i think YOU'RE pathetic and deserve to die.

>> No.3458133

It's not that that opening line is considered to be one of the best. It's that Moby-Dick is considered by many to be the greatest piece of American lit, so naturally people remember the opening line.

>> No.3458135

I suspect OP and our autistic aspiring writer are one and the same.

10/10

>> No.3458137
File: 58 KB, 425x341, duel.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3458137

>>3458126
Sorry. Assuming you're not a troll I'll give you some advice: Accept criticism. You want to publish at some point, yeah? I assume you will, since you say writing is your passion. Then you will need to hear from people who don't sugar-coat bad writing. And if you take it in and work with it, maybe, just maybe, you can produce some good writing. But that won't happen when you go off like a keg of gunpowder every time somebody lets you know that something doesn't work.

Take my word for this: If you do not change your attitude, you will still have this novel in your desk drawer in 10 years and the only people who willl say they like it is yourself and your mom.

>> No.3458139

>>3458135
I concur. If so, OP is gifted as a character-writer.

>> No.3458141

>>3458135

Hey dont fucking act like my autism is an insult.

Do you know how difficult it is to wake up int he morning knowing that I'm probaably going to offend multiple people because I have difficult interpreting emotions? Do you know how hard it is to walk around with this disease? fuck you motherfucker, i do my best.

>> No.3458150

this thread has made me realize how shitty this board is.

i posted my fucking thing for fuckin constructive criticism, and you bastards insulted me and made fun of my disease and called me obese.

fuck off i hate you

>> No.3458157

>>3458132
For someone on /lit/, you sure got a twisted perception of "acting like jerks".

>>3458141
>>3458150

Well, there you have it folks, this guy is impossible. Thank you and good night, hope to share some constructive conversation in another thread! Cue curtain.

>> No.3458158

>>3458141
I would be more courteous if you had not attempted to pass your writing off as Hemingway's.

And honestly I don't give a shit. I know autistic people who aren't deceitful, whiny assholes.

>> No.3458160

>tfw I've spent hours of my night trolling random 4chan threads into oblivion for absolutely no reason

I need help, you guys.

>> No.3458162

>>3458150
Nigger, you have been trying way too hard for the past hour.

>> No.3458163

>>3458141
>>3458150

I agree with >>3458158 - I'm sure autism is rough, but plenty of people get by without being lying, tantrum-happy manchildren.

>> No.3458165
File: 199 KB, 600x792, skyline.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3458165

>>3458160
We all do. But 4chan isn't the place for help. 4chan is the place where all the detritus of the internet is flung to squabble over scraps and shank eachother to break the monotony. The great oubliette of the internet.

>> No.3458168

I'm starting to get this theory, right, here it goes...

This autistic guy, and the one percenter above him, and the LOTR thread, and most of the off-topic posts... certainly not all of the but most..., and most of the responses to said posts, are all the same schizophrenic anon who posts the schizo threads.

>> No.3458171

>>3458165

I guess so. Maybe I should just go to Rebbit. I hear they interact like normal people there.

>>3458168

lolno

The only other /lit/ thread I've posted in recently was an Ayn Rand-related one.

>> No.3458175

>>3458171
You can go wherever you like. But for the love of God, don't act like you did in this thread. Even Rebbit will break your fingers if you posted some shit like this thread.

>> No.3458177

>>3458114

this makes me think you are both fat, and very insecure about it.

hurray analysis!

>> No.3458178

>>3458175

But...but I like that. :(

>> No.3458181

>>3458177

God damn, even after I've admitted to my trollish nature, people are still falling for it.

I guess I'm really that fucking good.

>> No.3458189
File: 76 KB, 1566x695, op is a homosex.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3458189

>>3458141

trolling isint something that happens to you, trolling is something one does to onesself

>> No.3458191
File: 121 KB, 823x1259, didpriv.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3458191

>>3458178
That's CIS-opression. Check your privilege.

>> No.3458192

>>3458123

google dunning-kruger effect

>> No.3458196

>>3458003
god damn thats fucking glorious.

>> No.3458197

>>3458181

people late to the thread i assume

>> No.3458198
File: 377 KB, 320x240, tumblr_l9p4bgsTGj1qbmi1bo1_400.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3458198

>>3458189
>that last post
>mfw

>> No.3458206

>>3458198

ponychan is a ruseman paradise, simply acting normal is enough to get people mad

>> No.3458209

>>3458206
Interesting... /r9k/ is full of neckbeards who have given up. They're all made of nitroglycerin and bitterness.

>> No.3458227

Fuck -all- of you. Moby Dick doesn't start with "Call me Ishmael." It starts with "Etymology." Do you think Melville included that shit at the beginning for shits and giggles? Do you think that it was there so he could "show his research?" Fuck you. He gathered all of those quotes, all of that data so that 1. he can immerse you in whales, and 2. build the idea that this is more than a story about fucking whales, and what whales represent.

For fuck's sake he does it in the middle of the goddamn book AGAIN when he goes on another whale rant, and ANOTHER whaling rant about how you deal with the parts of the whale.


"Call me Ishmael" works because it sets the fucking rules. You are to call him Ishmael. You find out that he's a goddamn sailor, he's eloquent and he's going to tell you his goddamn story because it weighs on him. It's short, sweet and to the point. He is the authority figure here. You were just given a mega-fuckton of information about whales, and your buddy Ishmael is going to try and make sense of it for himself and for you.

Ishmael is using all of those quotes and knowledge and is applying it to what happened in his life because he wants it to mean something. He wants to have survived for a purpose, rather than seeing one of his best buddies Quequeg die. So he talks on end about what whales are, what whales represent because it's a coping mechanism. He's /guilty/ because he's the only one who survived.

Why do you think he talks about greek mythology so much? He's trying to frame the story as a tragedy. He takes himself out of the story as a main character and substitutes Ahab because if something went wrong, well it's because God is punishing someone's hubris.

Why call him Ishmael? Because "he shall be a wild ass of a man: his hand shall be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell over against all his brethren.

He was a bad man who sought repentance. Sound familiar? Of course it does because he is.

>> No.3458232

>>3458227

Continued.

Call me Ishmael tells you everything, -EVERYTHING- about the book and what's going to happen. It does it with brevity and authority.

Also, please keep in mind that the people who read this book /knew/ the Bible. They know who Ishmael was, and his story. So while you as a modern reader probably have to google the name, more people would have a good idea of what the name meant.

>> No.3458274

>>3458227
>Fuck -all- of you. Moby Dick doesn't start with "Call me Ishmael." It starts with "Etymology.
I love you anon

>> No.3458292
File: 92 KB, 737x491, ohface.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3458292

>>3458003

>> No.3458295

>>3458227
>>3458232
I'm gonna smooch your face, anon.

>> No.3458301

>>3458232
>>3458227
>Something intelligent, insightful and funny on lit

Isn't there some kind of rule against this?

>> No.3458338

>>3457977
>The rickedy hickedy clank of the rough and damaged steel wheels
>>The rickedy hickedy clank
>rickedy hickedy clank
>rickedy
>hickedy
>clank

>> No.3458349

>>3458338
Hickory dickory dock, motherfucker.

>> No.3458355

>>3458165
omg that painting.the name?

>> No.3458357

>>3458355
New York Heights by Wilfred Lang

>> No.3458366

>>3458349
shiggidy diggety hickory dog

>> No.3458377

No one has yet rivalled Bukowski's "It began as a mistake." Concise, to the point, funny and it sets the tone.

>> No.3458381
File: 162 KB, 1885x983, ahab.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3458381

Why does he use Ahab's name so fucking often?

>> No.3458382

>>3458381
Because it's better than forced sappy various such as "the boistering nautical officer" or "the man in charge".

>> No.3458384
File: 202 KB, 1896x977, ahab.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3458384

>>3458381
I Can't Use A Thesaurus: The Book

>> No.3458387

>>3458381
That's 0.81574803149 mentions per page. Not a lot for a protagonist.

>> No.3458798

>>3458387

Well the whale isn't the main character.

>> No.3458800

Robert Langdon awoke.

>> No.3458803

Who is John Galt ?

>> No.3458804

>>3457865
One thing I like about the opening is that it is immediately ambiguous: is Ishmael actually his name, or is it a persona he adapts to tell the story? He is such a distinctive narrator, and the unreliability of his narrative is what gives the novel it's immense intensity.

>> No.3458824

"This is the saddest story I have ever heard."

>> No.3458838

>>3458384
You don't think using fucking whales so much isn't to emphasize some kind of point?

>> No.3458842

>>3457902
What a horrid example, it reeks of purple prose.

>> No.3458846

>>3457977
Neat, you learnt to google purple prose

>> No.3458848

>>3457902
wait it was sunny and cloudy? are we in magic quantum world where weather can be two things at once?

>> No.3458855

>>3458848
Of course it can be sunny and cloudy at the same time

>> No.3458856

>>3458848
>wait it was sunny and cloudy? are we in magic quantum world where weather can be two things at once?

Have you ever left your house?

>> No.3458863

It was a dark and stormy night when I awoke suddenly, breathing heavily, thinking, "My name is Jimmy and I am 20 years old, 6'2, with brown hair and green eyes."

god tier opening sentence, prove me wrong

>> No.3458869

>>3458855
How? Clouds block sun. The best it could be would be partly-cloudy, but not Sunny and cloudy. Sunny and cloudy are mutually exclusive descriptors of the sky.

>> No.3458870

>>3458869
Protip: "cloudy" does not mean "overcast".

>> No.3458874

>>3458869

what a dumbass

>> No.3458878

>>3458870
It means the sky is in a state of being dominated by clouds. If there's just one cloud you can't call it cloudy. The sky must be a majority of clouds before it can be called cloudy.

>> No.3458886
File: 149 KB, 480x640, 5294345895_b7452a4d1f_z.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3458886

>>3458878
Listen, chimp. There is a state between "partly cloudy" and "overcast".

It's not an either/or situation. Pic related is cloudy and sunny.

>> No.3458890

>>3458886
No, that is not sunny. The fact that the sun exists is not cause to call it "sunny". Otherwise everyday no matter how dark may be called sunny.

>> No.3458900

>>3458890
You're either a troll or dumb.

At this point, I don't care which. Enjoy your life, I guess.

>> No.3458905

>>3458900
I will enjoy my life, as an optimist I always look on the sunny side.

>> No.3458919
File: 28 KB, 300x464, Infinite_jest_cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3458919

>>3458869
Cloudy and sunny at the same time.

>> No.3458921

>>3458919
Nah, that's just shit.

>> No.3458930

It's cloudy and sunny here right now. Out my bedroom window it's grey and dreary. From the window in my living room it's bright and blue with enough light coming in to read a book by.

>> No.3458932

>>3458921
edgier by the day

>> No.3458935

>>3458930
its cloudy out one window and sunny out the other. But there is no window which is both, nor could there be.

>> No.3458939

Just skimmed through the thread.

I saw someone comparing it to "just saying your name".

"Call me Ishmael" is not "my name is Ishmael", there is a huge difference. It includes the reader right there at the first word. It is imperative. It doesn't matter what his name is, you call him Ishmael, you should point your finger on him and say he is Ishmael. And this is why you should do it....

>> No.3458963

>>3458935

it's the same sky you stupid fucking shit

>> No.3458970

>>3458963
I think you're bashing your head against a brick wall. Guy has clearly never been outside.

>> No.3458972

>>3458963
Its the same sky the world over. The sky above your house is connected to the sky in china. I wouldn't expect them both to be sunny at the same time though.

>> No.3458979

>>3458972
>The sky above your house is connected to the sky in china.
You subscribe to the idea of a firmament?

>> No.3458982

>>3458979
I subscribe to the idea that the atmosphere circumscribes the surface of the earth with relative uniformity and without interruption.

>> No.3458984

>>3458935
You clearly don't live where the weather changes much...

>> No.3458998

>>3458984
change is irrelevant. All that matters is the state of the sky at an instant. It being cloudy and soon will clear up is quite different from it being sunny at the same time.

>> No.3459001

>>3458982
So are you now saying you think the sky can be cloudy and sunny at the same time, and is in fact doing that all if not most of the time?

>> No.3459002

>>3458998

For someone who has obviously never left their basement you presume to know a lot about the weather.

>> No.3459008

>>3458998
Listen to what Robert Sapolsky has to say about categorisation, and come back later:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNGh9g6fA
If you have any relevant disagreements with what he's saying there, then tell us about it.

>> No.3459009

>>3459001
.... hmmm I do seem to have argued myself into a corner at that.

Well its been fun, I concede the point.

>> No.3459018

>>3458998
No, I mean it. Out the same window I see dark clouds already raining down and sunny blue sky. I swear.

>> No.3459107

>>3457946

I'll just quote André Breton (Manifesto of Surrealism):

If the purely informative style, of which the sentence just quoted is a prime example, is virtually the rule rather than the exception in the novel form, it is because, in all fairness, the author’s ambition is severely circumscribed. The circumstantial, needlessly specific nature of each of their notations leads me to believe that they are perpetrating a joke at my expense. I am spared not even one of the character’s slightest vacillations: will he be fairhaired? what will his name be? will we first meet him during the summer? So many questions resolved once and for all, as chance directs; the only discretionary power left me is to close the book, which I am careful to do somewhere in the vicinity of the first page. And the descriptions! There is nothing to which their vacuity can be compared; they are nothing but so many superimposed images taken from some stock catalogue, which the author utilizes more and more whenever he chooses; he seizes the opportunity to slip me his postcards, he tries to make me agree with him about the clichés:

The small room into which the young man was shown was covered with yellow wallpaper: there were geraniums in the windows, which were covered with muslin curtains; the setting sun cast a harsh light over the entire setting…. There was nothing special about the room. The furniture, of yellow wood, was all very old. A sofa with a tall back turned down, an oval table opposite the sofa, a dressing table and a mirror set against the pierglass, some chairs along the walls, two or three etchings of no value portraying some German girls with birds in their hands – such were the furnishings. (Dostoevski, Crime and Punishment)

(cont.)

>> No.3459111

>>3459107

I am in no mood to admit that the mind is interested in occupying itself with such matters, even fleetingly. It may be argued that this school-boy description has its place, and that at this juncture of the book the author has his reasons for burdening me. Nevertheless he is wasting his time, for I refuse to go into his room. Others’ laziness or fatigue does not interest me. I have too unstable a notion of the continuity of life to equate or compare my moments of depression or weakness with my best moments. When one ceases to feel, I am of the opinion one should keep quiet. And I would like it understood that I am not accusing or condemning lack of originality as such. I am only saying that I do not take particular note of the empty moments of my life, that it may be unworthy for any man to crystallize those which seem to him to be so. I shall, with your permission, ignore the description of that room, and many more like it.

>> No.3459143
File: 23 KB, 331x386, thats_funny_m8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3459143

>>3457895

>> No.3459146

>>3457946
The second sentence is not like "Call me Ishmael".

"My name is Patrick." Hasn't got the very two things that make "call me Ishmael" great, the "call me" part and the "Ishmael" part. Can't you tell that? Don't reduce that opening to "oh, he is just saying his name, it's like 'hi, i'm john'", because it is not. Those defending the line are not defending it because of name vs weather. Both of your examples are bad, afterall, they are not really the beggining of any book and no thought has been put into them, examples don't work in this case.

Read:
>>3458227
>>3458939

>> No.3459199

"The man in black fled through the desert and the gunslinger followed."

>> No.3459212

>>3459199
"This city is afraid of me. I'm the goddamn Batman and they won't take our independece day!"

fav quote of all tiem

stephen king is genius

>> No.3459421

>>3457946
Id rather know what it is about first than reading irrelevant information about the landscape, weather or similar shit.

The second is okay, since it at least states the name which is a lot more meaningful than knowing from where the wind is.

>> No.3459429

>>3457997
Doesnt fucking matter, both are horrible.

>> No.3459548

>>3457977
It's as if an occult hand had reached down from above, and wrote shitty purple prose like pawns on some giant chessboard.

>> No.3459830

>all these people skimming the thread and not realizing the guy was a really good troll

>> No.3460489

>tfw I'm the troll
>tfw I saw the thread is still up
>tfw nobody appreciates just how much effort went into making the first paragraph just believable enough for /lit/ to fall for, but just bad enough for /lit/ to freak out over

These feels, man.

>> No.3460572

>>3457997
Just so you know, Hemmingway is pleb-tier, one step away from genre fiction

>> No.3460624

>>3460572

>Hemmingway
>Bad

Let me guess, you also think Finnegans Wake is the best book ever written.

>> No.3460694

>>3460624
No, Ulysses was the height of Joyce's career

>> No.3460728

>ITT: People arguing over what is and isn't good/bad writing and good/bad authors, directly contradicting eachother, etc.

How's a man new to lit to know who's right and who's wrong?

>> No.3460776

>>3460728
welcome to academia

>> No.3460892

>>3457977
Wow this sucks.

>> No.3460960

>>3460728

It can generally be assumed that everyone's a little right, and everyone's a little wrong in most /lit/ threads.

Not here, though. Here, the troll is clearly wrong, and everyone else is clearly right.

>> No.3460971

Surprised I haven't seen the opening to "The Stranger" yet.

>> No.3460980

>>3458121
>"aspergian radiance"

I lol'd

>> No.3461062
File: 46 KB, 605x328, youkiddingme.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3461062

>>3457902
>and the tree were roaring

>> No.3461126
File: 52 KB, 600x400, 002170196e1c0f85e7b503.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3461126

>>3457865
>Why is this considered one of the greatest opening lines in literature?

Because it's the opening line of one of the greatest novels in literature.