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/lit/ - Literature

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3457222 No.3457222 [Reply] [Original]

I am a big fan of Moorcock's Elric novels and short stories as well as his Jerry Cornelius series.

That said, would I like Malus Darkblade? Is he truly a hero-villain or does he tend toward being more Drizzt than Elric/Jerry Cornelius?

>> No.3457229

>inb4 deathsword

>> No.3457254
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3457254

>> No.3457262

>>3457254
Can someone explain to me how this is funny?

>> No.3457277

you like Jerry Cornelius and Elric, but you're wiping your arse with generic fantasy?

you do realise Elric was a condemnation of heroic fantasy, and not a confirmation?

i suggest you check out Fritz Leiber's books about Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser. and before any cunt says "Lankhmar? he's ripping off Terry Pratchett", no. Terry Pratchett was doing an homage of Fritz Leiber, who was satirizing Robert E Howard.

>> No.3457278

i like Moorcock

>> No.3457298

>>3457277
I'm glad that you recommended Fafhrd & the Grey Mouser because if you hadn't, I would have. When I purged my personal library these books did not go. I think they are for the most part excellent and if I have children some day I'd like to give them a hard copy.

>> No.3457313

Haha, oh wow

"Malus Darkblakde"

Just look at that cover. Now that's quality

>> No.3457316

>>3457262

>PA
>funny

I don't think you really understand the concept behind PA

>> No.3457634

>>3457277
>you do realise Elric was a condemnation of heroic fantasy, and not a confirmation?
Well, if it was, then it was a failure. Elric is just heroic fantasy in goth cosplay, not a condemnation.

>> No.3458367
File: 233 KB, 950x760, Elric_of_Melnibone_by_RetroZombie.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3458367

>>3457634

so. who's a hero... how about Aragorn. yeah. he's pretty heroic.

would Aragorn wield a sword that stole life-force from his opponents?

would he continue to use it even when the sword occasionally swept around and killed his girlfriends and then his closest companion?

would Aragorn have led a gang of mercenaries to sack Gondor?

would Aragorn dedicate himself to the service of the gods of Chaos, then turn around and kill most of them with the aid of the gods of Law?

would Aragorn spend an enthusiastic morning torturing the sorceror Jagreen Lern to death?

i don't think this is what you see when you look up "hero" on wikipedia.

>> No.3458369

>>3457298
be sure to point out the parts in the most recent Swords book where Fahfrd and the Mouser congratulate each other on having fucked so many twelve-year-olds. when they weren't tying them up, that is.

>> No.3458386

>>3458367
> so. who's a hero... how about Aragorn. yeah. he's pretty heroic.
How about you compare to Conan instead, the direct example of 'heroic fantasy' that Moorcock was trying (unsuccessfully) to condemn.

Anyways, Aragorn isn't a hero; LOTR is essentially a tragedy, and Aragorn is essentially a tragic character.

>> No.3458397
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3458397

>>3457634
Heroic fantasy and sword&sorcery are different things, and Elric belongs to the latter.

>>3458367
>would Aragorn spend an enthusiastic morning torturing the sorceror Jagreen Lern to death?
In which story did that happen?

>> No.3458408

>>3458397
>Heroic fantasy and sword&sorcery are different things, and Elric belongs to the latter.
I'm just not that into picking nits, sorry, it's not my thing.

>> No.3458412

>>3458408
Sorry for trying to educate you.

>> No.3458508

>>3457222
>>3457262


Calling somebody "Malus Darkblade" is essentially asking for mockery. It's very close to parodying itself.

Demonic swords and cursed adventurers with grim secrets are the fodder of old puld sword and sorcery. Moorcock did a lot of poking at the idea, and Dave Sim rang a lot of changes on it, as did Larry Niven and a few others. Dick Geis had some prime things to say on it in the seventies too.

Basically, you dress a guy like that, you give him a bizarre name like Morticus Grimslaine or something, and you make him a descendant of a decadent court or a halfbreed of a magical ravce and you'd better be Shakespeare or nobody is going to take you seriously. It's the kind of thing kids read and then discard about the time they get to highschool.
'
It's not a bad way to introduce children to the basic concepts of fantasy or of literature in general, but you're supposed to grow out of it, or at least move it into the guilty pleasures realm.


There are writers out there who are capable of writing this kind of stuff with an almost straight face and enough care and craft and skill to do some pretty great books. Guys like Niven and Zelazny and Wolfe and Vance. But for every Gene Wolfe, there are three hundred Drakon Dimskulls and Barg the Barbarians and Dragonherders of Gorevan writers who just want to play fancy-dress with gmae and movie and pulp conventions.

You can usually spot the offenders by their anachronistic use of leanguage and metaphor.

We had a protowrite submit a story on here the other day where his hero-narrator in a medieval fantasy was describing things as "speed bumps" and "aces in the hole" for good's sake, And you see just as bad in a lot of popular fiction.

>> No.3458791

>>3458397
Wasn't that at the end of Stormbringer?

>> No.3458796

>>3458508
If I had read Moorcock's Elric Saga when I was a kid I would have been kinda depressed.