[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 41 KB, 313x355, 1349691234012.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3418587 No.3418587 [Reply] [Original]

Does a book really have to give a message to be good?

>> No.3418589
File: 6 KB, 396x360, leleface.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3418589

>>3418587

> does a book have to convey some cliched moral code to be good?

>> No.3418597

>>3418587
Bible is a best seller. Learn economics.

>> No.3418601

>>3418587
Every book has a message, even shit fan fiction. It is written by a person with particular beliefs and opinions, its characters and story won't develop without his opinions getting in the way.
Me and you will describe the same scene or person or story with different words, without willingly giving out a message, but the way we would describe them would reveal something about our view of life.

>> No.3418605

I think so typically for children's books, otherwise the reader should take responsibility of finding their own in a work which they can use for their own enrichment.

>> No.3418609

>>3418605
>I think so typically for children's books
What children's books are amoral?
Puss in Boots (Le Maitre Chat), what else?

>> No.3418613

OP confirmed for not knowing shit on linguistics, media, books...

>> No.3418617 [DELETED] 

Kinda depends.
a lot of books,will throw meanings at you. a lot shit people read now-a-days they will.like a murder book or something.
but a great book. has meaning. but its not literal.
I've read every Ernest Hemingway book,and at first, i was like awesome,these books are so good. then people tried to break it down and give it this deep ass meaning.
but when really. he just loved fucking writing. and he wrote great.
so its 50/50
a person can write,and not mean to have meaning.and people will interpret it how everthey like
so idk
im confusing my self
fuck it
Read Hemingway.

>> No.3418657

>>3418617
>fuck it
>Read Hemingway

For such a rambling, incoherent post, you sure stuck a great ending on it.

>> No.3418660 [DELETED] 

>>3418657
hahahaha thank you

>> No.3418743
File: 22 KB, 250x196, 1310146529803.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3418743

All books have a message
Therefore both bad books and good books will have a message

I dare you to name one book without a message you faggots

>> No.3418747

>>3418743
The medium IS THE MESSAGE!

>> No.3418756

>implying I read for anything other than sheer verbal artistry

>> No.3418769

Lolita doesn't have a message. At least not a moral.

>> No.3418772

>>3418743
if a book purposefully doesn't have a message, does it have a message?

>> No.3418778

>>3418772
Of course.

The message is what you receive, you idiots. Regardless of what it has been given by the author.

>> No.3418993

>>3418769

haven't read it but is it incorrect to say the moral is "dont judge pedos"?

>> No.3418996

>>3418993
Yes, that is incorrect.

>> No.3419027

>>3418769
>Lolita doesn't have a message.
Of course it does. All books have a message.

>At least not a moral.
Moral =/= message. Lolita doesn't really have a moral.

>> No.3419035

I think you would be very hard pressed to find any good books (or even any average books) that don't have some sort of message in them. Even if it's unintentional.

>> No.3419071

"message" is a damn broad label

you don't really need coherent points or themes to make a good work although i think it def. helps to work those out

but a good writer takes experience and distills that into an understandable format, and that gets through enough to most people

bar the fucking captcha ffs

>> No.3419074

>>3418587
Does a painting/statue/a work of art really have to give a message to be good?

>> No.3419116

>>3418778
>The message is what you receive, you idiots. Regardless of what it has been given by the author.

That's not a message then, you fucking moron.

>hurdur the authors intent doesn't matter just get ur own meaning XD

>> No.3419134

>>3418601
That's not necessarily a message, that's a side effect. A message implies imformation that is willingly communicated.

>> No.3419172

Not necessarily. You can have a true-to-life piece of fiction that accurately captures how an event would actually happen. Even if there's no intended or unintended message, it's still a window into the human condition.

>> No.3419191

>>3419172
>it's still a window into the human condition.
Which means it almost inevitably will have some sort of ideological message. Even in description of real events, it is almost impossible to keep ideology out of writing completely.
A literary window into the human condition is still a window shaped and coloured by the author.

>> No.3419219

>>3419191
It may show some ideological elements, but that will not be it's message if all the author does is just portraying things. A message requires intent. Just because my neighbour hears me fucking doesn't mean I'm an exhibitionist.

>> No.3419226

>>3419219
>but that will not be it's message if all the author does is just portraying things
'Just portraying things' is a message in itself.

>A message requires intent
Attempting to 'just portray stuff without imposing ideology' is a very strong kind of authorial intent.

>> No.3419228

>>3419219
>Just because my neighbour hears me fucking doesn't mean I'm an exhibitionist.
If you published stories of yourself fucking, you would be.
The act of publishing something implies some level of intent. Also, it's not impossible to subconsciously convey a message. Somebody might wear a new hat because they're subconsciously conveying to their peers that they are looking for new experiences in life.
Basically, nearly everything, including most non-fiction, implies some sort of message.

>> No.3419233

Pretty much any ethical work

New Testament
Discourses of Epictetus
Nicomachean Ethics
Bentham / JS Mill's Utilitarianism
Kant's Metaphysics of Morals
John Dewey's Ethics

>> No.3419604

>>3419233
What are you responding to?

>> No.3419739

Books without a clear, personal view on things tend to be pretty boring and uninteresting, in my opinion. The stronger the message, the more outrageous the opinion, the better reading it will make, whether you agree with it or not.

>> No.3419768

>>3419739
>The stronger the message, the more outrageous the opinion, the better reading it will make, whether you agree with it or not.
i can't into this. the more ideologically bothersome i find something, the harder it is to read. even if i keep telling myself i'm only doing it so i can criticize it, it just feels downright torturous

>> No.3419881

>>3419768
then it's bad, because it's not persuasive. that's not what the character you were replying to meant.

>> No.3419889

>>3418587
To be good, no. To be great, yes. The message is a very important dimension in any work, and, though the work can live without it, it still loses a great deal in its absence.