"I would sacrifice every video game in existence for the works of Shakespeare and not give it a moment's thought" -Roger Ebert Would you?

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Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:43:23 2013 No.3384399 [Reply] [Original]

"I would sacrifice every video game in existence for the works of Shakespeare and not give it a moment's thought"

-Roger Ebert

Would you?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:45:22 2013 No.3384404 No. I've gotten more enjoyment from some video games than from the entirety of Shakey's works.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:46:22 2013 No.3384408 uh yeah if i want to be "entertained", ill just go jerk off

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:47:22 2013 No.3384409 File: 35 KB, 402x402, Barack-Obama-12782369-2-402[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3384408 >if i want to be "entertained", ill just go jerk off ICE BURN

TYRONE Tue Jan 22 00:49:22 2013 No.3384418 [DELETED]

NAAAAW DAWWWGG i mean is dis cracka fo real?

I mean, first all why do shackspear gotta go n TALK LIKE A FAG? why can u jus talk like dem normal human bean?

Mayn video games be DOPE SON. me n my nigga lil shawn be playin NBA2K11 and i whoop his ass errtime. yall niggas no it 2 be troof son.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:50:22 2013 No.3384421

>>3384408
what i mean is, it doesn't matter if videogames entertain people more than shakespeare, because it isnt completely certain if someone would ever be able create all that shakespeare ever created. if i wanted to be entertained in the most basic sense possible, why i would need a video game ?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:50:22 2013 No.3384422 Yes, sure. Nothing against vidya, I just don't like it all that much. But that's not a matter even, I would sacrifice 30 years of literature for the works of Shakespeare as well.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:51:22 2013 No.3384427 Of course.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:52:23 2013 No.3384428 for the sheer fact alone that ebert has the idea- no, i wouldnt. i dont want to group myself in any fashion with his ugly ass.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:52:23 2013 No.3384430

>>3384422
>But that's not a matter even, I would sacrifice 30 years of literature for the works of Shakespeare as well.

Oooh dis a more temptin question

By the way I asked /v/ about this and I wish you guys were there for the responses.

One guy said Megaman was more studied and dissected than Romeo and Juliet and I think he was serious.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:53:23 2013 No.3384432 i've never even read anything by shakespeare. what would my childhood have been without video games? fuck shakespeare. i'd sacrifice everything he ever wrote just for contra.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:55:22 2013 No.3384438 I love video games. But if you wouldn't...I don't know what to say.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:56:22 2013 No.3384440

Am I the only one who doesn't understand Ebert's statement? Is he saying "If I were stranded in some strange universe where I can have either Shakespeare's complete works or every video game in existence, I would choose Shakespeare's works" or is he saying "I would sacrifice all of the extant video games for the original texts of Shakespeare" or what? I mean, you can have both, you nigger. False dichotomy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:56:23 2013 No.3384445 File: 254 KB, 2050x672, Coexist2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:57:22 2013 No.3384447

Is it really surprising that he would say that? He is 70 years old, which would put his childhood and teenage years in the 1950s and early 60s. There was shit all for video games back then. And if you didn't grow up with video games as a child it makes it highly unlikely that you will become an avid gamer in your adult years. Which means he most likely knows shit all about video games and isn't in a position to give an educated comparison on the matter.

Having said that video games have no positive contribution to society so I wouldn't have a problem making the sacrifice. Any artistic expression through games could be done equally or better through other media. Similar entertainment could be achieved through traditional games or watching movies, both of which are less likely to lead to unhealthy addiction.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:57:23 2013 No.3384446

No way. That's my childhood and adolescence. There are amazing games out there, cliche games to mention Ocarina of Time, Ico etc I want my kids to have the same wonder and adventure I had.

Video Games were an important part of the expansion of my imagination, my sense of adventure and wonder. Every now and then games will still blow me away, they can be used for many different things, something like Journey's visuals making me feel happy. Games can be inspiring and can easily be art forms.

Nothing against Shakespeare.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:58:22 2013 No.3384448 >>3384447 This. It's just another case of an old fart being out of touch. Don't worry, it will happen to you too.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:58:22 2013 No.3384449 "I would sacrifice the top of a tower in order to save it's deep rooted foundations and not give it a moment's thought" Sounds ok to me.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:58:22 2013 No.3384453 >>3384440 I think he's meaning. Aliens come down and they say we are going to destroy every videogame or every work my Shakespeare, what's your choice? There are probably video games that have Shakespeare's works.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 00:59:22 2013 No.3384454 Ebert is an old, out of touch curmudgeon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:00:23 2013 No.3384461 Would video game technology still be at it's present state, and it would just wipe all previously made games from existence?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:00:23 2013 No.3384462 >>3384454 but he also made the right choice

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:02:23 2013 No.3384464 >>3384461 I think so, yeah

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:02:23 2013 No.3384465 >>3384462 That's subjective.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:02:23 2013 No.3384466

>>3384447
No positive contribution to society.
Minus giving people jobs, increasing the economy etc
You can't seriously think there are NO positive contributions.
And making the argument that the same artistic expression can be made the same or better through different mediums is ridiculous.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:03:23 2013 No.3384468
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Having regretted how many hours of my time I completely wasted playing vidya in my prime, I would in a heart beat.

Like seriously you guys, it depresses me to think about all the ways I could have spent the time I wasted away on shit like runescape. ):

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:04:23 2013 No.3384472

"Show me 100 head of ordinary children who are worth one "Heart of Darkness"' and I'll subside. As for "Lord Jim," I would not swap it for all the brats born in Trenton, N. J., since the Spanish War."

- H.L. Mencken

Is this an easier choice, or a harder one?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:05:23 2013 No.3384476 >>3384465 in the same way all life is subjective, eventually, yes

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:06:23 2013 No.3384478 File: 44 KB, 550x367, stupidmonkey.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] It's easier to rebuild vidya than Shakespeare guise

>>	BasementDweller Tue Jan 22 01:09:23 2013 No.3384491 >>3384399 Nigga' must be tripping.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:10:22 2013 No.3384494 If not Shakespeare, someone else. The same could be said of the games. I'd be impartial.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:13:22 2013 No.3384499

I don't play games anymore, but vanilla WoW and spending nights at LAN cafes were some of the greatest experiences I've had.

I feel like I've personally outgrown games and "gaming", but I don't begrudge those who still love them. If anyone can enjoy a game in their later years as much as I enjoyed that game and LANing as a young teen then I'm slightly envious of them.

I wouldn't shit on Ebert too much, he's just out of touch.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:16:22 2013 No.3384505

Considering how the video game industry is now-a-days, I'd, even tho one of the things I know the most about is video games, they make kids more retarded than what they are.
I'd have never found about this place if it wasn't for video games, but that's just me. My cousin is a retard, socially, physically and mentally, and all he does is play video games.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:17:22 2013 No.3384509 Wow Ebert is such a faggot

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:18:22 2013 No.3384510 >>3384399 Anyone else think people just think shakespeare is amazing because they're supposed to? Most people haven't even read him but talk about how great he is out of a sense of duty or something.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:19:22 2013 No.3384517 >>3384510 Yes I think this. >muh culture

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:19:22 2013 No.3384519 >>3384510 This He's probably never even touched a video game controller tbh. It's like having someone say "I would take away all the books just so we can have our youth be model soldiers" back when books were first invented..

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:20:22 2013 No.3384521 >>3384517 >>3384510 are you saying Shakespeare isn't the greatest writer of all time?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:20:22 2013 No.3384522 >>3384521 I don't think he is.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:21:22 2013 No.3384524

>>3384510

Call me crazy but I think it's fair to say that someone who's devoted their life to being a cultural critic (regardless of your position on critics) has probably taken a crack at Shakespeare at some point.

It's the young pseudos this mainly applies to.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:21:22 2013 No.3384525 >>3384521 Yes, Professor Bloom, that is exactly what I'm saying.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:22:23 2013 No.3384529 >>3384521 Im saying its subjective. And most people mindless say he is the GOAT because some academics tell them what to believe.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:23:23 2013 No.3384534

>>3384468
Fucking this. It's not hard to argue that we might be better off without videogames except that our world is becoming more and more technology based where vidya works more to its advantage than literature. Real literature is going to become a niche market if it already hasn't.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:24:22 2013 No.3384536 >>>/v/172594028

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:25:22 2013 No.3384538 File: 225 KB, 373x327, 1343427984644.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3384522 >>3384529

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:25:22 2013 No.3384540 >>3384524 I still think it applies to old people too, maybe more since they believe more in the canon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:25:22 2013 No.3384541 >false dichotomies no, thanks though

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:26:22 2013 No.3384542 >>3384468 >tfw typing /played on WoW and realize you wasted MONTHS of your life im never getting addicted to a game ever again.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:26:22 2013 No.3384543 >>3384525 >>3384529 lt's an absurd hypothetical. Of course the existence of Shakespeare surpasses any video game, but Bloom is being inflammatory. He's an olden-days troll with a newspaper column.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:26:22 2013 No.3384544 File: 6 KB, 561x84, This is what v actually believes.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3384430

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:26:22 2013 No.3384545 >>3384542 >only months Who cares you were a casual anyway.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:28:22 2013 No.3384555 >>3384430 >One guy said Megaman was more studied and dissected than Romeo and Juliet and I think he was serious. I couldn't imagine being this much of a basement dweller. Fucking terrifying.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:29:22 2013 No.3384557 >>3384544 hahahahahaha Oh man that board.... if videogames are an actual artform, their biggest supporters are fucking retards

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:30:22 2013 No.3384559 >>3384505 >Anecdotal evidence hurr video games raise intelligence I mean, shakespeare probably raises intelligence more, but just saiyan'

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:30:22 2013 No.3384560 >>3384544 >>3384555 >/lit/ in charge of handling the banter Sometimes y'all can be as bad as /jp/.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:31:22 2013 No.3384568 Fuck no, I love video games.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:32:23 2013 No.3384576 >>3384559 >hurr >just saiyan /v/ pls go

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:34:22 2013 No.3384586 >>3384559 I don't agree. Most video games are meant for the least intelligent people.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:35:22 2013 No.3384589 >>3384560 You wonder why they are so straight laced, huh.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:35:22 2013 No.3384592 As much as I like Shakespeare, I enjoy videogames more. So no.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:36:22 2013 No.3384595 >>3384421 how does your argument for shakespeare not apply for video games?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:37:22 2013 No.3384599 I would destroy video games if I could. Just look at how they've destroyed society.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:38:22 2013 No.3384601 i wouldn't sacrifice either broad swath of media simply because it's not my place to deprive everyone else of it

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:38:23 2013 No.3384602
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I know a lot of you faggots hate mass effect but I love it.

When I play the games some times I think to myself just how much of an artform video games are. Its is a combination of stunning visual art, compelling science fiction, and powerful emotional plot. There is nothing mindless about it. Faggots like Ebert think all vidya is just COD and random violence. I think vidya is a MORE respectable medium of artistic expression than theater.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:38:23 2013 No.3384604 >>3384586 You guys call yourselves intelligent? This isn't debatable, nor is it any form of opinion. It's objectively true a majority of the time. >>3384576 Yeah, I'm leaving this shithole, dont worry >I'm actually a /sci/entist

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:38:23 2013 No.3384605 A year ago I would have chosen video games without hesitating. Recently, though, I just haven't played any that hold my interest. Starting to wonder if it was just a phase.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:39:22 2013 No.3384606 >>3384599 yeah man society was so great before video games came along and destroyed everything fucking video games jesus

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:40:22 2013 No.3384610 >>3384559 only some do. >implying chess and a million other games dont exist

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:40:22 2013 No.3384611 If one applies the philosophy of The Republic to this issue, games appeal to our inner tyrants while Shakespeare appeals to our minds and makes us think with more depth.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:40:22 2013 No.3384612 >>3384602 ME3 almost ruined any hope I had for video games as an art form. That game is an abomination.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:41:22 2013 No.3384614 >>3384604 You scifaggots are the biggest egalitarian fools there are. Videogames are meant for the plebs. Deal with it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:41:22 2013 No.3384615 >>3384399 >"I would sacrifice every video game in existence for the works of Shakespeare and not give it a moment's thought" >-Roger Ebert >Would you? Stupid hypothetical. /Thread

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:42:23 2013 No.3384619

spend some time listing to prepubescent kids shit talk on x box live as well as guys a decade older who still talk the same way, then tell me how great gaming culture is

fuck videogames and every sweaty cheeto covered manboobed permavirg who wastes all their time on them

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:43:23 2013 No.3384620 >>3384606 >ruins academic potential >kids don't learn how to delay gratification >addictive elements >it creates a fantasy world which people escape into, rather than facing their problems

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:44:23 2013 No.3384621 >>3384620 BUT ITS A ARTGFOTMR!

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:44:23 2013 No.3384622 >>3384621 piss christ is art elephant dung virgin mary is art

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:45:22 2013 No.3384623 >>3384622 >video games aren't art

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:45:22 2013 No.3384625 This debate comes down to pros and cons of video games and Shakespearean literature. This question should be approached from a utilitarian perspective. What are some potential cons of Shakespearean literature?

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:46:22 2013 No.3384627

>>3384620
>ruins academic potential
bullshit
>kids don't learn how to delay gratification
not really, if anything they learn how to work and solve problems to get the satisfaction of winning
>addictive elements
welp, there goes society
>it creates a fantasy world which people escape into, rather than facing their problems
that's called entertainment, buddy. it's what people do all their other shit they have to do for.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:46:22 2013 No.3384629 >>3384625 >This question should be approached from a utilitarian perspective. No, because then video games win. Why don't we approach it from a Kantian, Schopenhauerian or Nietzschean point of view?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:46:22 2013 No.3384630 >>3384604 >It's objectively true a majority of the time. Read this line again then go look in a mirror and seriously ask yourself at what point in your life did you become the fucking moron you are now.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:47:22 2013 No.3384632 >>3384627 >if anything they learn how to work and solve problems to get the satisfaction of winning >how to kill the most amount of people in 30 seconds

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:50:22 2013 No.3384637 >>3384632 >people no, enemies. and killing your enemies is a good thing.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:50:23 2013 No.3384639

>>3384625
Other than an air of superiority for 'appreciating the Bard', I can't think of any. Maybe it discriminates against the stupid or the uneducated who do not have the mental capacity to appreciate it. Let the masses have their bread and circus...what does their refinement matter?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:50:23 2013 No.3384641 >>3384637 Not in civilisation it's not.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:52:23 2013 No.3384645 >>3384472 'In terms of children's lives I'd gladly swap for it' seems an odd, and unnecessarily blood thirsty, way for a critic to quantify his passion for a text.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:53:23 2013 No.3384646 >>3384629 How would a 'philosopher King' handle this debate? Should we, as modern citizens, have any responsibility towards the education and mental development of the youth?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:55:22 2013 No.3384651 >>3384632 >solve problems Yeah, pressing a button when a bunch of pixels form sure solves problems. This prepares youth for a factory position on an assembly line, if that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:55:22 2013 No.3384652 >>3384472 h.l. mencken was just being edgy. as a (usually) non-consequentialist person, i would not sacrifice a person for a work of art. the only time i would even consider would be if it was a psychopath who ate his victims or something

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:56:22 2013 No.3384654 >>3384630 >attacking my awkward wording rather than actually debating the premise sounds about right for /lit/

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 01:58:22 2013 No.3384657 >>3384654 pls don't pretend /lit/ all thinks the same i'm here too you know

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:01:22 2013 No.3384667 >>3384595 because there will always be the certainty that games intended to entertain and little else will always be created. and so consequently they aren't as important as literature

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:01:22 2013 No.3384669 File: 1.85 MB, 2592x1936, 1356495862250.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>>/v/172596686 >>>/v/172596686 >>>/v/172596686

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:02:22 2013 No.3384670 >>3384667 important to you, perhaps.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:06:23 2013 No.3384675

>>3384670
you dont understand what i meant.

a game that is intended to entertain someone, to simply delight them and not inspire reflection, no matter how novel it may be, can be replaced with another.
even if i liked red faction more than othello, something very similar to red faction (provided the relevant technology existed) is an inevitability. whereas something very similar to othello is only a vague possibility
so it doesnt matter what i like

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:08:22 2013 No.3384680 >>3384399 ofc i would video games of all genres have been modeled of many real life sources. racing from cars, RPG from D&D, RTS from board games, and all shooters have the same origin

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:14:22 2013 No.3384692 >>3384675 >to simply delight them and not inspire reflection Haha, what? When is the last time you played a video game, 1987?

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:16:22 2013 No.3384693
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As long as games like Mother 3, Deus Ex and Guilty Gear XX exist, Ebert's opinion is entirely unjustified.

Nothing against Shakespeare, though it's difficult not to believe he owes his acclaim and ubiquity to cultural imperialism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:17:22 2013 No.3384694 >>3384675 >whereas something very similar to othello is only a vague possibility You don't actually think this right? It's supposed to be a joke, yeah?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:17:22 2013 No.3384695 >>3384654 I have to agree, you are quite dense.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:19:22 2013 No.3384697

>>3384692
just because video games have some intellectual content does not mean that the developers want you to reflect. youve gotta remember that film studios are trying to make movies more like videogames because games make FAR more money.

even games that are sort of intellectual, like puzzle games or some rpgs (the last guardian, i think, might be an example of a more intellectual game) dont compare to a well-written book.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:19:22 2013 No.3384698

>>3384675
i would ask you what you think the intention of the works of shakespeare are that makes them so irreplaceable. of course the pure historical value and scarcity of content from that period is a factor, but what is it in their substance that is untouchable by a video game?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:22:22 2013 No.3384702 >>3384697 how can you be so certain that shakespeare wasn't thinking of making money when he put pen to paper?

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:22:22 2013 No.3384703

>>3384694
where is the certainty that, if you destroyed Othello, something very similar would be created and culturally disseminated ? oh, thats right, there is none.
and that's why year after year publishing companies print copies of chaucer, plato, and so on. theyre holding onto the fact that the metaphysical/intellectual/artistic content of these books have not been lost to time

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:24:22 2013 No.3384704
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>>3384697

There's the trouble of arbitrating an author/developer's intent; I would say that it would only be proper to speak for an author (with respect to their intent in creating a certain work) when they deliberately state their intentions. Otherwise it seems the most pragmatic (as well as polite) to roll with your own interpretation of a work while realizing that the author might have had something else in mind.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:25:22 2013 No.3384706 >>3384559 Yes, I won't deny it, video games used to be a real test of skill and intelligence, but nowadays it's shit. Anything past 1999 is shit (90% of it sure is, 5% is debatable, 5% is good).

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:25:22 2013 No.3384707 >>3384703 >oh, thats right, there is none. How do you figure? And could you explain why you feel so sure nothing else like Othello has been produced?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:26:22 2013 No.3384710 >>3384706 I see generalizations like this and feel a little sad but then I console myself with the fact that few people actually take these insanely broad generalizations seriously

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:26:22 2013 No.3384711 File: 20 KB, 390x470, 1355680551520.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3384706 >video games used to be a real test of skill and intelligence >a real test of skill >and intelligence >skill >intelligence

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:26:22 2013 No.3384712

Does he mean that if someone were to put the two next to each, as they are currently existing, and forced to make a choice to erase all copies of them, physical or otherwise, that he'd choose Shakespeare? I'd disagree, although videogames have a long way to go before they reach any kind of technological plateau-- they could survive a restart.

If he was trying to make some sort of larger point about the potential for videogames, and that was just an excerpt, then he's a retard.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:27:22 2013 No.3384713 >>3384449 The foundations of video games is in technology not literature, you cunt. Ebert is a selfish faggot. Even without Shakespeare you still have the entire history of drama

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:28:22 2013 No.3384714
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>>3384711

>I should be able to beat Super Ghouls and Ghosts on my first try

>I should also be able to easily defeat a self-proclaimed "professional" GGXXAC+ player

>after all, video games take no skill or intelligence

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:29:22 2013 No.3384715 >>3384714 whoosh I'll dumb it down for you. >implying being able to beat Super Ghouls and Ghosts is a "skill" yeah, it's going on my resume

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:29:22 2013 No.3384716 Yes. I spent my teen years in my room playing video games. Nothing good came of it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:30:22 2013 No.3384717 >>3384711 Yes. Why don't you try comparing a fucking text-based game versus fucking Call of Duty Black Cops 2? Fuck off for making me respond.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:30:22 2013 No.3384718

>>3384714
if you seriously think that there is no market for skill-intensive games (and no one marketing to them) then you aren't looking very hard. of course the business of video games is huge now and as is reasonable to expect the demands of the majority audience have shifted

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:31:22 2013 No.3384719 >>3384717 >>3384715 not even who you are talking to this is a shitty thread, cmon /lit/

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:32:22 2013 No.3384720 >>3384718 wrong person to quote? >>3384715 There's more than one way to use the word "skill" you fucking sophist

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:33:23 2013 No.3384721 >>3384717 text-based games are probably much more intellectual and closer to literature than blaggops what are you talking about? why post on /lit/?

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:33:23 2013 No.3384723

>>3384707
lots of books deal with some of the themes in othello. probably thousands. maybe out of all those thousands, there are even a hundred with almost exactly the same plot as othello, i dont know.
it's not a matter of something like othello being produced. or even of something like othello AND as good as othello being produced. would that hypothetical work (that's as good as othello and really similar plotwise or otherwise to othello) be culturally disseminated (canonized) ?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:34:22 2013 No.3384724 >>3384720 >a real test of skill and intelligence how many ways of using the word "intelligence" are there?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:39:22 2013 No.3384727 File: 42 KB, 640x400, 1350686867679.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3384721 What the fuck? You just said video games didn't take intelligence and needed no skill. Now you're saying video games are intellectual?

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:46:22 2013 No.3384730

>>3384697
See, that's just, like, your opinion, man.jpeg

There might be plenty of people out there who are much more seriously engaged intellectually by video games than they are by the written word. And then you try to speak for every video game developer's intentions...

U cray, man. U cray.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:48:22 2013 No.3384731 >>3384602 Mass Effect is a movie with a shitty 3rd person shooter tacked on

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:49:22 2013 No.3384732 The third board I've seen this posted in. Roger Ebert and op can both have homosexual coitus in a fire.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:53:23 2013 No.3384733 >>3384732 That sounds hot.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:55:23 2013 No.3384737 Fuck I like Shakespeare and all but on the other hand there is system shock 2.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:57:23 2013 No.3384738 >>3384737 basically just othello with guns

sage sage Tue Jan 22 02:58:23 2013 No.3384739

>>3384692
>>3384669

>When was the last time anyone here even read a book?

Oh dear. Please do remember that Shakespeare wrote plays. People would pay to forage about his Globe for a bit and let him entertain him in his alternate realities.

So if this discussion is inspiration>entertainment, please refrain from saying video games are only entertainment and literature is only inspiration.

A game of chess is great for learning about a person, and yourself.
Reading a book someone recommends you is great for learning about them, and yourself.
Watching a movie and talking about it with someone is great for learning about them, and yourself.

Personally? If I were in some magical room of internment and could choose between Shakespeare and every videogame, I'd choose the games if I could play them, though I would choose 4chan and online chess over either.

If I were editing reality I think Shakespeare has had a bigger influence than video games so far, deleting Shakespeare would have a very subtle but far-reaching effect in terms of time, though deleting videogames would certainly make things incredibly different today. I would quicksave, delete one, see what happens, then load and choose the other one, because the resulting worlds are more intriguing than the choice.

If I were creating some world and could choose to give them either Shakespeare or video games, I suppose that depends. Watching an infant society interact with a projector and Ico would be more interesting than watching them use shakespeare as toilet paper and fish-wraps.

Though in that case I think playing the 9th ominously and quite loudly while a muted 100x100 ft End of Evangelion plays constantly would produce the most interesting results.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:59:23 2013 No.3384740 >>3384733 Oh you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 02:59:23 2013 No.3384742 If there was no Shakespeare, how could I finish the Shakespeare puzzle in Silent Hill 3?

sage sage Tue Jan 22 03:01:23 2013 No.3384743

>>3384739

It's interesting, though. When I was a kid and told to "play outside" it always had a surreal irony to it. I had a lawn and a dog. I could speak to three other children on my block, the rest I never knew because I did not speak Spanish. Most of my friends lived farther than walking distance from me.
There were two public parks in my neighborhood, both of which had community centres and were populated by the homeless after six pm. When I went to friends houses we would play snes or watch tv. If we had a neat toy like an rc car we would use it until we've put it through every possible scenario we could before growing bored.
Occasionally we would do simple experiments or delve into impish bouts of destructive curiosity whilst systematically dimsantling a betamax.
Mostly just sidewalks and topped street-trees, cars with music on stereos passing by and houses with people and televisions inside.

sage sage Tue Jan 22 03:03:22 2013 No.3384747

>>3384743

We inhabit and we explore. For want of what is good and fun and right, for want of better and other. If there is a path, connecting from the known walkways around your home and leading away, and if we walk down that path and find a forest and artifacts inside that forest and amuse ourselves with the sky and trees and solitude.
Then we do. And we also return. We may find an abandoned treehouse, or the choice of eating a mushroom, or the community of others we haven't known before.
The avenues for others are different. Perhaps if you go outside there is a road and shops and houses with locked doors and stranger cars along the streets, and areas of grass or areas of concrete for basketball or football or recreational swimming pools you can use for free if you live in the city.
There are books, with one price and one requirement for acess, the ability to read and then with this cliched key we can open the cliched gate and to us a new path becomes apparent different from the others in that the "away" can be reached "here" and the forests require a different sort of sight. And with this we can find what cliche is.
And we see it again and again and again, and know why it is. And the people you meet, and the places and stories and imaginings and choices are felt the same, though occur differently. The poem carved into the tree was written by someone you'll never meet, and he wrote it and you saw it here, as you stand in the ashes of a fire you never saw, /lit/.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 03:04:22 2013 No.3384749 >>3384739 >>3384747 >>3384743 Dude, that was beautiful.

sage sage Tue Jan 22 03:05:22 2013 No.3384752

>>3384747

And the trials and fires and choices and people. The funny meandering Russian's musings known to you by the writings of a Russian muser.
And the games and the thoughts and the fun. There were characters in Super Smash Bros whom nobody I knew knew, nor did I as we weren't Japanese. Well, one of us was, but we weren't in Japan. Mostly those were unlocked though, never favoured.
And let me sit back for a moment and let my momentum carry me a few hours until the ending of Pi. I wonder if that girl studied hard to memorize her lines, or maybe she's a prodigy. I wonder how their relationship will be from that point on. Maybe he'll teach her English instead.
I have inhabited and I have explored, and I still want more after all the seasons of SG-1. Have you played Starcraft against Kim Jon Un? He uses protoss.
I found Adam Lanza on LoL, but he hadn't played for a while and never accepted my friend request.
I like going on walks at four in the morning, it gives me enough time to obtain an excellent vantage for watching the sunrise. I've seen it many times. I took a picture once.
I was bored and read a book on chess strategy when I was young. After that I wanted to play.
I've never seen anyone recognize En Passat, and no chess engine allows for it.

If Richard is dick, then Roger is Chode.
I don't believe in Chode Ebert, I believe in Chode Abortion. (It's a woman's right to choose, so please refrain from asking 4chan, as it is solely populated by men.)

>>	sage sage Tue Jan 22 03:07:23 2013 No.3384755 >>3384749 Thank you, I appreciate the sentiment, however do be careful or we might become the same person.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 03:39:22 2013 No.3384787 No, I hated Shakespeare. I don't understand why it's so respected/popular. I'd rather have Twited Metal, Guilty Gear, Starwing, and fifteen mainstream games than Shakespear. Not even trolling. + who needs Shakespeare if you got Akira Kurosawa?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 03:46:22 2013 No.3384798 >>3384787 >Not even trolling. Well now I just feel bad for you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 03:48:22 2013 No.3384801 How about a working jaw?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 03:49:22 2013 No.3384804 Yes I can't think of a game that does anything better than classical lit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 03:50:23 2013 No.3384806 If I had to choose, sure. I'd pick Bill.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 04:20:23 2013 No.3384857

You niggas plain don't get it - we have, in our immediate reach, the original works of what will eventually be an ancient art-form: Shakespeare, despite its beauty, doesn't hold that honour. Imagine all the vidya that's existed up to this date, suddenly vanishing, and then consider what our descendants will have to study when, in the distant future, they gather in their lecture halls and listen, dazed by the light of their own curiosity, as their educators turn on the SimuLector and upload them to The Matrix, Instance 2013. (Note, just in parenthesis, that the first literary works, too, were all about adventure and action, and had the same plot-be-damned-and-realism-with-it attitude). They'll be studying things like 'The Elder Scrolls Online' and 'Assassin's Creed 4: The Unfurling'. Fuck that, guys: the descendants of those few on /lit/ who aren't anti-natalists deserve better.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 04:28:23 2013 No.3384869 >>3384399 I don't really like all that fag talk, that shit is fucked up. shakespeare wasn't even a person

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 04:30:22 2013 No.3384873 >>3384557 >if videogames are an actual artform, their biggest supporters are fucking retards >implying it isnt

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 04:33:23 2013 No.3384881 >>3384586 >I don't agree. Most video games are meant for the least intelligent people well 'Most' everything is meant for the least intelligent of people (i.e. the masses), no? dont mix mainstream opinion with critical opinion, pls

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 04:34:23 2013 No.3384883 "I would sacrifice Roger Ebert for a good bottle of cognac and not give it a moment's thought"

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 05:52:22 2013 No.3384961 Apparenlty big video game players aren't very well educated people. Who would've thunk

>>	Mr. GoodCat Tue Jan 22 05:59:22 2013 No.3384975 >>3384961 who would have thought*

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:01:22 2013 No.3384978 >>3384975 No, past the past tense of 'think' is 'thunk'. In British English it's 'thunked'

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:04:22 2013 No.3384981 "I am an old man and my judgement is impaired. I'm finally out of the loop." -Roger Ebert

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:05:22 2013 No.3384982 >>3384804 They do gameplay as a form of art better than classical literature.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:10:22 2013 No.3384992 >>3384982 gameplay isn't a form of art, in the way bookread, musiclisten and paintinglookat are

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:10:22 2013 No.3384994 "I would gladly sacrifice every apple in existence for just one orange."

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:14:22 2013 No.3384999

>>3384992
Gameplay is a form of art the way prose, poetry, dance, music, sculpture et al are.

You basic misuse of the English language is astounding, though. Were you doing it on purpose? Gameplay is not an act of playing the game. It the main content of the game.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:15:22 2013 No.3385001 "I would gladly sacrifice everything to be young and open to new things again." -Roger Ebert

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:16:22 2013 No.3385003 >>3384994 It turns out this one orange, however, is infinitely more important than all of those apples combined

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:18:22 2013 No.3385008 >>3384999 have you even been to insomnia.ac bitch, you don't know the first thing about video games

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:18:22 2013 No.3385011

>>3385003
Turns out, no.

Who's more important, Ebert or the author of War and Peace, Anna Karenina et al?

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/27726
Tolstoy on Shakespeare: A Critical Essay on Shakespeare by graf Leo Tolstoy
>I remember the astonishment I felt when I first read Shakespeare. I expected to receive a powerful esthetic pleasure, but having read, one after the other, works regarded as his best: "King Lear," "Romeo and Juliet," "Hamlet" and "Macbeth," not only did I feel no delight, but I felt an irresistible repulsion and tedium

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:19:22 2013 No.3385013 >>3385008 What? What is insomnia.ac and why is it important? I've been to college until I graduated, is that ok?

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:19:22 2013 No.3385014

No.

That is retarded.

I would not Sacrifice entire media X for any instance of media Y.

I may sacrifice instance of media X for another given instance of media Y, or the entity of media X for the entity of media Y.

If i had to choose between books and video games, for example, i would choose books. But no single book, author, series or genre would be prioritized over Video games as a concept.

The whole idea is retarded.

It's like asking me to choose between chocolate, as a thing, or skittles. Skittles can fuck off, because chocolate encompasses so much more.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:21:22 2013 No.3385016 >>3385011 Look at this non sequitur, I love it

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:23:22 2013 No.3385021 >>3385016 Enjoy using words you don't quite understand, huh?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:24:23 2013 No.3385023 >>3385021 You are not refuting my point. Tolstoy's opinion on Shakespeare has nothing to do with anything

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:25:23 2013 No.3385025 >>3385023 You did not present a point, you presented an opinion. I presented an opposite opinion form a much more reputable source than you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:27:23 2013 No.3385029 I would do it but I would feel bad for what was lost.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:28:23 2013 No.3385031 >>3385025 Tolstoy is reputable as a novelist and short story writer, not a literary critic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:31:22 2013 No.3385041 Though I dare say that if Tolstoy were given life again and allowed a peep at our modern world, he would detest video games far more than he did Shakespeare.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:32:22 2013 No.3385042 >>3385031 >He's one of the most reputable masters of the art in history, not a commentator. >Therefore, his opinion on said art is irrelevant. Seriously?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:33:23 2013 No.3385043 >>3385041 Tolstoy was a stuck-up cunt, but so is Ebert. At least Tolstoy knew what he was talking about some of the time.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:33:23 2013 No.3385044 The fact that Tolstoy disliked Shakespeare does not prove that Shakespeare is worthless.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:34:23 2013 No.3385046 >>3385044 The fact that Ebert liked Shakespeare proves even less.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:35:23 2013 No.3385047 >>3385042 It's not liek his opinions matter in the face of history, anyway, which has valued Shakespeare's work much more than his personal opinions on it

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:35:23 2013 No.3385049 >>3385046 Yes, that's certainly true.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:35:23 2013 No.3385050 >>3385046 How about the fact that he is considered largely without qualification the greatest writer in the history of the English language? Does that "prove" anything?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:36:22 2013 No.3385052 >>3385050 Not really, no.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:36:22 2013 No.3385053 >>3385050 "Is considered" is probably least impressive as proofs go.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:36:22 2013 No.3385054 >>3385043 I don't even like Ebert that much. There are so many better film critics

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:36:23 2013 No.3385051 >>3385049 >I don't know what sageru actually does.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:38:22 2013 No.3385056 >>3385051 I do, actually.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 06:40:22 2013 No.3385061

That he'd make such a dumb irrelevant statement which has no bearing in anything that can be called reality just shows how he's but an opinionated man like the rest of us, and that he's being given far too much attention for the unimportant service he provides.
I shall also refrain from answering due to the stupidity of the question.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 07:05:22 2013 No.3385135 >>3385061 Taken in its context, the hypothetical, about which he says 'such mental experiments are folly', is used as an example of the absurdity of those aforementioned 'mental experiments'. You've got to research these things, Brother Heim.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 07:07:22 2013 No.3385142 >I would throw out all off these entertaining things that give joy to millions of people, just to prove a point, and I wouldn't even care. What a fucker.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 07:17:22 2013 No.3385164 >>3385135 So he's still just an opinionated man given too much attention for the unimportant service he provides.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 07:36:23 2013 No.3385181
File: 74 KB, 251x251, shakespeare-green-eyeshade.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Its too hard to say because a lot of good authors were influenced by Shakespeare. I suppose if Shake wasn't the big dog of that time, Marlowe or Webster might have been, but then who knows ? - butterfly effect.

I kind of wish video games didn't exist, they're like a drug really.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 07:38:23 2013 No.3385184 >>3385181 Also maybe literature would have been better if Shake didn't exist.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 07:39:22 2013 No.3385185 "I would sacrifice every book in existence for television and not give it a moment's thought" -The General Public.

>>	sage sage Tue Jan 22 07:43:22 2013 No.3385188 >>3385185 And they do. And you're doing it now for 4chan. Did you give it a moment's thought? Now you have.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 07:53:23 2013 No.3385198

don't know. I mean: Shakespeare's Video games were pretty bad. I mean I thought the whole "Henry" series was going great: Strong Plot, good game play, lots of action. Henry IV was great and Henry V blew me away, then they spun off the Richard games, and by the time Henry VIII came out there was no saving the franchise. I heard he had help with that one anyway. Hamlet was great though, and "Midsummer Night" was pretty good, thoght I thought there were too many side quests and fetch quests and the cut scenes in "Tempest" were just sooo long and you couldn't skip them.

I mostly played the french stuff: Iron Mask! Now that was a game!

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 07:54:23 2013 No.3385199 >>3384418 You're not funny

Cellis !eTB.HcnPbU Tue Jan 22 08:01:23 2013 No.3385204

>>3384544
>>3384557
Mario is a pop-culture icon in today's culture. He's as, if not more popular than Mickey Mouse was.

Also, anyone who sacrifices an entire medium of art for the preservement of one artist, is an idiot. Whether you prefer one to the other, or not. What if someone was to say this about films in the 1910s, or about theatre in 500BCE?

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:03:23 2013 No.3385207

>>3385204

He didn't say he would sacrifice the entire medium, he said he would sacrifice every single one that currently exists. People could start making them again the next day, if they were so inclined.

And honestly, I enjoy video games, but I think I would make the same sacrifice. I'd much rather lose every video game than every work of Shakespeare.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:16:27 2013 No.3385224

Please bear in mind that the quote refers to every video game in existance. Not new ones, or even remakes of old ones.

He's basically saying that there hasn't been a video game produced yet that would be worth losing a single one of Shakespeare's plays over, and he's right.

He's not ruling out Final Fantasy XXVI turning out to be better than hamlet.

He could easily say the same about any other medium. "I would gladly sacrifice every Mills and Boon, every crocheted sampler, every bumper sticker, every dragonlance novel!" all heresy to somebody.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:19:03 2013 No.3385229 >>3384978 It's thought, you idiot

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:19:17 2013 No.3385227 >>3385224 >not ruling out FF26 being better than Hamlet I'll be happy to rule that out for him.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:27:03 2013 No.3385245 >>3385181 What about television and condoms?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:28:03 2013 No.3385246 >>3385188 I'm sorry, when did he say that he had stopped reading books in favour of 4chan?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:31:43 2013 No.3385253 >>3385229 Are you American, or autistic?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:31:43 2013 No.3385254 >>3384399 Unless video games have influenced anything of intellectual importance, then yes, I would.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:33:15 2013 No.3385257 >>3385253 Thunk isn't the past tense of think. I'm english and not autistic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:36:35 2013 No.3385265 >>3385257 >not autistic. Yet dense enough to take his post seriously. Are you sure you're not on the spectrum somewhere?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:37:38 2013 No.3385266 Anyone that honestly chooses the video games is just another fuckheaded millennial.

>>	sage sage Tue Jan 22 08:39:25 2013 No.3385279 >>3385246 Now. Now now now now, you silly twat you. If you're here now you're not reading a book now, now are you? Though you might be if Pinecone deign to twitch his divine girth betwixt us.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:39:25 2013 No.3385280 >>3385265 No, I am not autistic at all.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:43:00 2013 No.3385290 >>3385279 >If you're here now you're not reading a book now, now are you? I'm actually browsing 4chan and listening to the 'Thus Spake Zarathustra' audiobook. I'll probably get bored in a bit and switch over to visually taking in the information.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:47:07 2013 No.3385300

>>3385279
I, like he, am actually dividing my time between literature and this board. I have right next to me "Röde Orm volume 2" by Frans G. Bengtsson. And it seems obvious to me that the original quote could refer to nothing but the total and permanent removal of all articles of literature that have existed at any point in time, and not the negligence of not reading a book at all times. Bitch.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:48:36 2013 No.3385302 >>3385266 MUH GENERATION.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:50:55 2013 No.3385306 >>3385199 I second this motion

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:51:57 2013 No.3385309
File: 49 KB, 642x768, John_Carmacknewblog.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

John Carmack > William Shakespeare.

I'm not going to sacrifice the technological advancements brought about by gamin' because some fat sweaty jawless drama faggot has a hard on for a dead pansy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:52:27 2013 No.3385311 >>3385266 Video games have entertained far more people than Shakespear ever will.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:53:13 2013 No.3385317 >>3385266 Video games have entertained far more people than Shakespeare ever will.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 08:58:54 2013 No.3385325

I would too, frankly. But then again, Shakespeare is important enough that i'd probably sacrifice Gravity's Rainbow existence for it. Multiplayer games are fun, but man, I have yet to play a video game (and i've played many; i've been an idort since the mid 80s) that had a story better than what i'd consider a mediocre novel to have. Deus Ex, GTA IV, Planetscape, Walking Dead Ultima... it's the pleasurable gameplay that makes those games memorable, more so than the stories, I think.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:00:10 2013 No.3385328 >>3385302 Your generation is quite literally the worst generation since the dawn of mankind. Congrats.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:00:10 2013 No.3385330 >>3384468 I would do the same for this reason but Shakespeare is shit

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:01:10 2013 No.3385334 Video games are cool and all, but this is a simple decision.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:02:10 2013 No.3385336 Do you people honestly think literature would be at a loss without Shakespeare? That was so fucking long ago - you don't think someone else would take his place?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:02:10 2013 No.3385337 >>3385309 >the sweat is dripping off my fatty brow as I bash this post on my keyboard, how dare he mock the cultural abortion that is my life Duly noted.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:02:10 2013 No.3385338 I would refrain from altering history thinking it would turn out for the better.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:03:10 2013 No.3385345 >>3385317 >entertainment Also Shakespeare is shit, I'd choose to burn with fire both.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:04:10 2013 No.3385347

>>3385336

I think Shakespeare's wit and poetry wouldn't have been reproduced by anyone, but the themes of his tragedies, comedies, and histories, yes, if not Shakespeare, Marlowe or any of the other of his contemporaries would have made structurally similar plays. They just wouldn't have the same instructional value that Shakespeare's works have.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:06:10 2013 No.3385354 >>3385347 >Marlowe or any of the other of his contemporaries would have made structurally similar plays. Marlowe would have had trouble, what with being dead

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:08:09 2013 No.3385361 >>3385337 Cool story, bro. I'm sure the dead pansy has such a huge significance in your life.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:10:09 2013 No.3385364 >>3385361 The English language has certainly had a significance in yours.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:12:09 2013 No.3385373 >>3385347 what wit?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:12:09 2013 No.3385375 >>3385361 Oh, my post was purely in response to how much of a hopeless manchild and lost cause you were being. Carry on.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:13:09 2013 No.3385379 >>3385345 >Shakespeare is shit Look out, we got an edgy over here.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:14:20 2013 No.3385382 >>3385181 >I kind of wish video games didn't exist, they're like a drug really. Good video games aren't. Just stop playing online games, retard, they're barely video games at this point.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:17:25 2013 No.3385385 Video games as they stand now? Yes, without a second's hesitation. Video games in 30 years time? I'd have to think about it.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:19:58 2013 No.3385392

>>3385382
>Good video games aren't
As someone who used to regularly log 200+ hours on video games every 2 weeks, I disagree. The only video games that actually felt enjoyable and well worth their value were the ones you can continue playing for endless hours.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 09:59:02 2013 No.3385486
File: 133 KB, 1268x1000, 1349973201362.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I would sacrifice every Shakespeare' work for one game of dota 2

come at me bros

dat anti mage
dat spectre
dat faceless void
dat black hole etc
dat naga ult
dat OD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La--egn0MrU&t=26m55s

>Implying any shakespeare work comes even close to what happened here

>implying deus ex' art direction and soundtrack wouldn't shit all over this medicore clown

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 10:01:03 2013 No.3385489 I wonder how Harold Bloom would respond to this question.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 10:05:39 2013 No.3385504 >>3384399 Yes, but then I don't like vidya games (or really any games). I've never seen a vidya game I recall fondly, but I saw a fantastic performance of Midsummer Night's Dream and look back on that great memory often.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 10:22:15 2013 No.3385536 >>3385486 This is embarrassing to watch.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 10:25:15 2013 No.3385544 >Roger Ebert pitting Shakespeare fans and video game fans against each other Why you gotta be such a fag Ebert, I like both.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 10:26:15 2013 No.3385546 File: 490 KB, 449x401, Girls.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3385486 >come at me bros ewwww, no

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 10:27:15 2013 No.3385548 >>3385486 The commentary track makes me cringe. Do people actually watch others playing vidya for entertainment??

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 10:31:41 2013 No.3385556 >>3385548 Well, some are willing to pay a dude for watching a movie and hearing his opinion about it... I think they're both pretty bad, although the vidya situation is more so.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 10:36:02 2013 No.3385566 >>3385556 >Well, some are willing to pay a dude for watching a movie and hearing his opinion about it What?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 10:36:49 2013 No.3385567 >>3385556 Yeah, fuck all those pretentious critics. All we should ever hear about films before watching them should come from marketing divisions! The vidya thing is no different than watching sports.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 10:39:22 2013 No.3385574 >>3385548 Yup. E-sports is big business my friend. Million-dollar industries despite the fact that it might seem like a narrow audience.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 10:40:07 2013 No.3385576 >>3385567 Or maybe we could just download it or ask someone we know who's seen it. Or read a free review. We could even look at the teasers and have some goddamned frame of reference to judge it according to.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 10:46:01 2013 No.3385587 >>3385567 I doubt /lit/ should be the ones to go around calling other people pretentious critics.

>>	sage sage Tue Jan 22 10:46:01 2013 No.3385588 >>3385567 They have dedicated channels for starcraft I in south Korea.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 10:47:32 2013 No.3385590

>>3385576

>Or maybe we could just download it

time is money

>ask someone we know who's seen it

So what about small films that have little publicity, that haven't been seen by many people or just wouldn't get seen without critics and festivals to champion them?

>Or read a free review.

By a nobody who has little frame of reference and whose taste you don't know? Or by someone who got 'paid' by the studio to write it?

>We could even look at the teasers

more marketing

The entertainment and arts landscape would be an even more sorry sight without professional critics.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 10:49:51 2013 No.3385593

>>3385548
I saw an interesting comment on a "Let's Play" video on youtube. I just coiuldn't understand why someone would intentionally sit and watch someone else play a game and make unfunny jokes all day. I want to kick Pewdipie in the balls so hard.

The commenter said that the people that watch LP do because they've connected with the video-makers in a weird way. In a sense they're vicariously making friends with them. Not even like consciously either.

I know this isn't the same as e-sports, but it was an interesting thought. Also horribly depressing and sad.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 10:53:10 2013 No.3385599 >>3385593 The whole let's play thing is entirely personality driven, it's not even about the game most of the time. Not everyone doing this is as insufferable as pewdiepie.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 10:59:06 2013 No.3385611

>>3385590
>>Or maybe we could just download it
>time is money
Money is more money.

>>ask someone we know who's seen it
So what about small films that have little publicity, that haven't been seen by many people or just wouldn't get seen without critics and festivals to champion them?
If you're interested, you might want to keep an eye on those releases anyway. I also don't believe that you should pay some guy to find out about indie movies.
>>Or read a free review.
>By a nobody who has little frame of reference and whose taste you don't know? Or by someone who got 'paid' by the studio to write it?
I would suggest finding a free reviewer whose opinion doesn't seem like horseshit to you, and using hypothetical frame of reference of your own to figure out who is and who is not your man/woman.
>>We could even look at the teasers
>more marketing
Yes, and if you have a slight clue you will be able to measure the hype against what you see, as well, at least enough to make you decide if it's worth looking into.
>The entertainment and arts landscape would be an even more sorry sight without professional critics.
If critics can be blamed for the state of Hollywood then I see no reason to pay for their piece of mind.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:00:06 2013 No.3385615
File: 403 KB, 500x667, tumblr_lsnad3J67p1qz9zkmo1_500.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

No, I wouldn't. Video games can be a form of art. It's pretty shallow of him to say that, since he's probably not given video games a chance. Sometimes it works as interactive storytelling and uses aesthetics and user experience to enhance this. Overall, this guy is shallow with a severe case of gayface.

I'm gay but my face don't look as gay as his.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:03:24 2013 No.3385625

Pretentious much?

The works of Shakespeare are few; from one man, with a cast of a few people behind him, with most stories being rehashed from history.

Video games are many; from many people and cultures, with millions of programmers behind them, driving the digital age ahead of it, with the most incredible imaginative stories.

One person writing stories is not worth millions of people writing stories.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:13:24 2013 No.3385635

>>3385625
>from many people and cultures
Mostly white nerds.
>with millions of programmers behind them
That it takes a hundred to produce something doesn't give it more merit.
>driving the digital age ahead of it
Hah, yes, the development of technology relies on the income from the Call of Duty franchise.
>with the most incredible imaginative stories
Grim Fandango is still the best, and that doesn't speak well about the vidya industry.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:18:16 2013 No.3385648 Archive this shit

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:21:03 2013 No.3385653 >>3385615 >Video games >form of art. Nope.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:25:07 2013 No.3385661 File: 16 KB, 243x112, bitcheslovewards.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I'm being completely serious when I say Dota/2 is an art form and the ultimate test of skill and intelligence.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:25:39 2013 No.3385664 >>3385653 0/10 Look up the definition of art.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:28:43 2013 No.3385677 >>3385664 You mean the generally accepted definition of what is and what is not art? Why yes, I'll look that up right away. Make sure to bump this thread for, say, another sixty years, if you'd be so kind.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:31:47 2013 No.3385687 >>3385677 Another poster here.You don't really have a right to say what's not art. Now stop trolling and go pls. You obviously haven't played some video games.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:32:18 2013 No.3385692 >>3385687 I have indeed not played some of the existing video games.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:32:18 2013 No.3385693 >>3385677 Thanks for destroying your own argument. >don't know shit about art >claim you know what is art and what isn't.

sage sage Tue Jan 22 11:33:20 2013 No.3385697

>>3385661

No, deus ex on hard and putting all your skills into swimming is. Then you see which ending they chose and either kill/befriend/conspire with them.

>>3385648
lol

>>3385635
>>3385625

Don't forget Shakespeare was a Pseudonym used by everyone.

Are you lot deciding this "merit" on impact or intrinsic worth? If so how are you deciding. I like playing chess online. The best Shakespeare play I saw was at my highschool.

There's an album called "Opheliac" by a "victoriandustrialist" "musician"
Every videogame has a soundtrack.
What is music?
What is art?

It can be fun, right?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:33:51 2013 No.3385699 >>3385693 You silly goose, we're arguing about what art is and what is not art, since there IS no generally accepted definition.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:40:14 2013 No.3385721

>>3385697
>Don't forget Shakespeare was a Pseudonym used by everyone
I'll just call these people "Shakespeare" collectively without giving it further credit for taking the effort of many to create.
>Are you lot deciding this "merit" on impact or intrinsic worth?
Both, really. If someone wants to convince me that a video game tackles the themes of Hamlet better than Hamlet did, let them name this game and explain how playing it allows for more creativity than a troupe of actors can muster.
>It can be fun, right?
If it isn't, then you're free to dislike and ignore it, but it doesn't make something not art, just how enjoying something doesn't qualify it as art.

Truth is, I don't really give a shit about definitions such as this.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:40:15 2013 No.3385718 >>3385661 Yet it's hindered by being a team game. The best intellectual competitions aren't 5v5 team games, your own skill will always be brought down by those worse than you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:43:14 2013 No.3385725 >>3385574 DOTA2's current esport scene is not a stable business model, we'll have to see its future when it is released to see what it becomes but right now the audience isn't even close to being big enough for making profit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:48:55 2013 No.3385738 >>3384739 i... i cant believe you are serious. why do you even post on /lit/

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:48:55 2013 No.3385740 Why not just do away with both?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:50:12 2013 No.3385742 Sure, OP, of course I would. I mean, why not, I don't even like games.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:52:30 2013 No.3385745 >>3385742 loser

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 11:53:03 2013 No.3385748 Most of them, but not HL2 please

sage sage Tue Jan 22 12:00:12 2013 No.3385766

>>3385721

Insofar as impact is concerned shakespeare definitely has more, if we are to measure it at all it would be by "reference" or "influence", right?
Today videogames are certainly more prevalent, though many reference shakespeare or works referencing shakespeare. Intrinsic worth is rather tricky unless you provide more inane definitions by which to judge.

Personally, I think Deus Ex shared many themes with Neuromancer and handled them better, while also utilizing the interactivity to augment the narrative.

>>3385738
i... eye kant believe it's not but her. Why do you post on /lit/

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 12:00:12 2013 No.3385768 >>3385697 Why did you put musician in quotes, that album rules.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 12:01:12 2013 No.3385773 >>3385766 >that shitty deus ex pun So much for being a "good writer" you poser

sage sage Tue Jan 22 12:04:33 2013 No.3385785

>>3385768

Emilie Autumn?

Yeah I love her actually, violins are my favourite instrument ever and electric violins being centre are rare. Her vocals are pretty good and the industrial electronica of the track is decent in that it compliments rather than obfuscate the vocals and violin.

But her shows are mainly burlesque, from what I've seen.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 12:06:52 2013 No.3385789

VIDEO GAMES ARE A WASTE. GAMERS ARE AFRAID TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND ADMIT TO WASTING THEIR TIME ON A VACUOUS MEDIUM PANDERING TO THEIR DISGUSTING, BUT TYPICAL, IDOLATRY.

THE STORY, THE ARTWORK, ANIMATIONS, AND MUSIC HELP MAKE A VIDEO GAME. IT CONSISTS OF ART, BUT GAME PLAY IS THE CRUX, AND WHY IT IS NOT ART.

TO THINK THAT ANY GAME WILL EVER EMOTE THE EXPRESSION OF SHAKESPEARE ONLY SHOWS HOW IMMATURE YOU PEOPLE ARE. IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW UBIQUITOUS MEGA MAN, OR SONIC IS WITHIN OUR CURRENT CULTURE SHAKESPEARE EXPRESSES SOMETHING MANY TIMES MORE MEANINGFUL ABOUT OUR DESIRES AND PSYCHE THAN A STUPID FUCKING BLUE HEDGEHOG ROLLING AROUND AT THE SPEED OF SOUND EVER WILL. SHAKESPEARE ISN'T HERE TO ENTERTAIN YOU, YOU ARE SUPPOSED LISTEN, WATCH, AND BECOME ENLIGHTENED. A VIDEO GAME WILL ALWAYS BE INFERIOR BECAUSE THIS PRETENSE: IT HAS TO ENTERTAIN YOU, AND FOLLOW BASIC RULES (CONTROLS). FACE IT LOSERS.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 12:06:52 2013 No.3385791 >>3385766 > Why do you post on /lit/ to talk about literature, not make paltry, pointless arguments for why a new medium is or is not worse than Shakespeare. Ebert was being a troll. No one will remember him when he dies.

>>	itt: /lit/ can't into hermeneutics Anonymous Tue Jan 22 12:11:44 2013 No.3385813 when you finish a video game, it dies when you finish a book, it comes to life

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 12:20:12 2013 No.3385837 >>3385813 lol

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 12:21:12 2013 No.3385839 >>3385813 I can come back to HL2 time and time again

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 12:24:12 2013 No.3385846 >>3385839 That's not relevant to what he said. You missed the point.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 12:26:48 2013 No.3385850 >>3385846 Well, what is his point? I never got hermeneutics, for the record.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 12:27:34 2013 No.3385854 >>3385789 >SHAKESPEARE ISN'T HERE TO ENTERTAIN YOU He was a populist fucking playwright, who set off real cannons in a theatre. He was basically the Michael Bay of his day.

sage sage Tue Jan 22 12:30:38 2013 No.3385867

>>3385773
Your appointment to FEMA will be finalized within the hour.

>>3385791
Well you certainly aren't talking about literature right now. I don't know whether trolling was his intention but Ebert in general is shit.

This thread is rather silly and a basic powerlevel devolving into "what is art definition of measurement" dickish deconstruction. It does not concern literature itself but rather how literature relates to completely separate things.
And although the discussion is vacuous and pretentious self-righteous dickflaunting, its rather silly to reply to such a thread with "i post about literature"

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 12:41:05 2013 No.3385896 >>3385867 >Well you certainly aren't talking about literature right now wow so snide and unpleasant -- you fit in here!

sage sage Tue Jan 22 12:51:21 2013 No.3385926

>>3385896

I certainly don't mean to be, I don't mean to offend or transgress upon you in any way, I'm sure you're a great fellow. However you must admit that if discussing artistic wankery is without merit then talking about discussing artistic wankery has even less. And so replying that and saying that I am now saying to you that you shouldn't be talking about not discussing artistic wankery, and we have reached true lunacy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 12:56:44 2013 No.3385941 >>3385785 Laced/Unlaced is my favorite of hers, shows just how good a violinist she is. You heard her new album yet?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 12:58:47 2013 No.3385943 >>3385926 you remind me of that one obnoxious kid in school. There's always one. I'm sure you were that kid at your school

sage sage Tue Jan 22 13:04:39 2013 No.3385959

>>3385943

I never talked to anyone at my school, so I doubt it.

>>3385941

I agree, I also liked "organ grinder" and "Dead is the New Alive"
Thanks for telling me about her new album, I hadn't heard of it. I liked the Asylum audiobooks, I thought she got the atmosphere down very well, though it can seem a bit childish at times.

>>	Fandroid !p6ktXMpsfc Tue Jan 22 13:11:06 2013 No.3385977 Shakespeare was a hack.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 13:14:40 2013 No.3385985 >>3385959 >I never talked to anyone at my school, so I doubt it. this makes me sad but also explains your attitude here

>>	sage sage Tue Jan 22 13:20:02 2013 No.3386005 >>3385985 I'm sorry I sadden you in any way but I fail to understand either your perception of my attitude or how it is explained. Also Yahtzee has more literary merit than Roger Ebert.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 14:08:02 2013 No.3386179 File: 7 KB, 320x240, 637207-2758149_super.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Ebert has obviously never played Kingdom Hearts.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 19:27:03 2013 No.3387399 bump

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 19:29:03 2013 No.3387408 Ebert just doesn't know how Shakespearean Devil May Cry 4 is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bSgQzIs3Zk

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 19:33:03 2013 No.3387421

"I would sacrifice every video game in existence for the works of Shakespeare and not give it a moment's thought"

I don't understand this american blabber. What exactly he would he do?
Sacrifice games to Shakespeare?
Sacrifice games for more Shakespeare?
Sacrifice games just just because he thinks Shakespeare is vastly superior?

I really don't understand what he is trying to say. I mean we have Shakespeare and we have games. Why would you need to sacrifice something?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 19:39:04 2013 No.3387446 >>3384641 Of course! Society gives you your enemies you can justly kill!

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 19:47:03 2013 No.3387482 >>3387421 he is saying >shakespeare >video games >pick 1

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 19:47:03 2013 No.3387485 >>3384399 I think Othello's pretty alright, but Bioshock was just plain kick-ass.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 19:52:04 2013 No.3387508 >>3387421 Remember that he is a film critic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 20:09:03 2013 No.3387584 >>3387482 I'm pretty sure that almost no one would pick video-games, even hardcore gamers, if given a moment to think. That guy is only trying to look cool.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 20:10:03 2013 No.3387596 >>3387584 I'd pick video games and I like Shakespeare. There are other amazing writers. Video games, however, are a powerful distraction for the plebs that needs to remain in place.

Anonymous Tue Jan 22 20:16:03 2013 No.3387634
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lowbrow response: video games, duh...

middlebrow response: well, highbrow people like Shakespeare, and lowbrow people like video games, so obviously I'll pick Shakespeare!

highbrow response: What is /lit/?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 20:17:03 2013 No.3387641 >>3387596 Without Shakespeare there won't be too much amazing writers as if now.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 20:20:04 2013 No.3387653 >>3387641 lol...you think people would just stop writing and nobody else would have come along? For all we know, there could be an even greater writer that would have existed had we not been so influenced by Shakespeare.

>>	satan !!1Fa7LzeI6u8 Tue Jan 22 20:22:03 2013 No.3387664 roger ebert looks like my grandmother >roger ebert writing me 10 dollar checks for my birthday 8/10 would bang

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 20:26:05 2013 No.3387695 File: 43 KB, 460x557, roger-ebert-jaw-cancer-photo-esquire-0310-lg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3387664 Come to Granny, Stan.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 20:28:05 2013 No.3387703 >>3387653 I didn't say that you fucking retard. And the second point is just retarded, brings nothing to the discussion, i can say that we could have invented an even better wat to have fun rather than video-games. PS. Excuse me for my bad English.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 22 20:31:05 2013 No.3387731 Edgy cunt.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 23 00:11:07 2013 No.3389025 Some old critic would sacrifice something he doesn't care about for something he does. And Hitler would sacrifice the Jews for all the Germans in the world. What a surprise.

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/lit/ - Literature