/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.3368002]

Is professional criticism really necessary?

[Anonymous No.3368009]

I enjoy reading criticism.

[Anonymous No.3368010]

Pay me and I'll give you a review.

[demiurge No.3368008]

necessary in what sense?

[Anonymous No.3368033]

Criticism is for people who can't articulate their thoughts and for those who have no thoughts at all.

It's also for people who want to justify their opinions with an appeal to authority.

[Anonymous No.3368049]

Criticism can open new perspectives on ways to appreciate art that you may not have thought of independently. The weakest criticism usually limits itself to appraising whether something is "bad" or "good."

>>3368033
What a shallow, high school-level argument.

[Anonymous No.3368073]

>>3368049

>weakest criticism

see goodreads and amazon reviews

[Anonymous No.3368077]

Terrible thread, but

I want to be an ironic porn critic for a high brow publication, where I write long pitchfork style pretentious reviews of different porn vids with a decimalised grading system.

[Anonymous No.3368079]

>>3368002

What the dickens did you just have the nerve to say about me, you diminutive autodidact? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class at Harvard, and I am a listed contributor to numerous prestigious magazines, and I have over 300 confirmed bylines in the New York Review of Books. I am trained in gorilla literary analysis and I'm the top critic of the entire US sphere of public intellectuals. Your question is nothing to me but just another text to criticize. I will wipe you the fudge out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my blessed words. You think you can get away with saying that incredulous pap to me over the Internet? Think again, Sir. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of editors across the USA and my critique is being prepared right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your intellectual credibility. You have committed a serious faux pas, young whippersnapper. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can dissect your intellectual corpus in over seven hundred ways, and that's just in standard English. Not only do I have a Ph.D. in English literature, but I have access to the entire arsenal of academia and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable countenace of the face of the continent, you petit merdeux. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little 'clever' comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your dissatisfactory tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you are paying the price, you middle-brow Yalie. I will defecate fury all over you and you will drown in it. You'll will never be invited to the New Yorker tearoom soires again, kiddo.

[Anonymous No.3368080]

Necessary? u wot m8?

No, it's a natural thing that emerges from the discussion of art. What it means to be a professional or not is a whole different discussion. But the thing is that the authority only exists where people see the authority, we allow them to be heard as we hear them. And as Benjamin said, the good critic appears to represent the public even when the public disagrees.

Criticism is a form of connection between the art, the market and the different audiences. It's not about being right or wrong or having the last word, on the contrary, the existence of critics prove that there is no last word, that you can always say something else about it. Most people have a negative perspective on criticism, the "he can't do, so he talks" and I agree there is some truth in it, but to take that as the reason criticism exists is to be ignorant about it.

>>3368033
That would be true if reading criticism was a passive activity, but it is not. If one has read criticism in the way that you mention, then it is his or her problem. For all others, it is nothing like that at all. Aristotle gives: "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it".

Also, criticism has been often confused for teenagers reviewing movies in video blogs and stuff like that...

[Anonymous No.3368093]

>>3368079
>trained in gorilla literary analysis

I want to know more!

[Anonymous No.3368100]

>>3368093
If you give an ape an infinite amount of books to read and an infinite amount of time to ponder them, the result is indistinguishable from Harold Bloom.

[Anonymous No.3368148]

>>3368093

"What the fuck, Mongols raping blond incest babies, now? This isn't a realistic retelling of the War of the roses AT ALL!

And now you're telling me there are a thousand more books and the fat fuck who got the ball rolling HASN'T EVEN FINISHED IT?

Jesus! 0,5 bananas/10. At least this Ned Stark fellow seems like a solid protagonist."

[Anonymous No.3368156]

>>3368079
What the deuce did you just utter, you uncouth plebeian? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in Cambridge English Literature, been involved in numerous 17th century book analyses, and I have over 300 confirmed interpretations of Ulysess' first page. I am trained in critical reading and and am the top critic in the entire USA literati. You are nothing to me but just another pretentious teenager. I will criticise your shitty poems and prose with intellectual wit and fury that hasn't been seen since Oscar Wilde. You think you can escape retribution because you're using a medium devoid of culture? Think again, pleb. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of librarians across the USA and your library ID is being traced right now so you should prepare for the revenge, you filthy urchin. The revenge that will remove all the trash manga and graphic novels from your library. You're banished to /b/, serf. I can read any language, anytime, and I can theorise over seven hundred philosophical reasons for the meaning of life, and that's just when I assume there is no God. Not only am I erudite and well read, but I have access to all shelves of the United States Library of Congress and I will use it to its full extent to clean the academic community of your exrecable presence, you little philistine. If you only you had the critical thinking skills to know what vengeance your rejoinder would render upon you, perhaps you would have stayed clandestine. But you failed, you floundered, and now you're going to face my fury, you feckless, fustian fool. I will logically destroy you and you will beg for mercy. You're pulp now, lout.

[Anonymous No.3368237]

It depends if the critic is actually knowledgeable about her subject. I find criticism a great source of education when trying to understand what goes into creating a work of art especially when you're at that very early stage of knowing you like something but not knowing why. Also, you have to recognize that the critic is only a part of the conversation and not to be viewed as the answer from on high. Just recently, a lot of movie critics had back and forths in their reviews of Zero Dark Thirty in reference to its use of torture. Earlier, authors and critics would have back and forth dialogues with their criticisms which were published in the journals of the time. Poe and Longfellow had a little throw down that they carried through their criticism which brought to light several aspects of each's work.

I generally use Pitchfork as a sift for music because there's just so much produced and I like to find what's good quickly. I miss a lot of stuff and I may not like everything they like, but it's still a good tool for finding new music.

Is it necessary? It's as necessary as long as we value critical thought.

[Anonymous No.3368282]

listen up, espically all the critics out there. have you ever heard the saying that one persons opinion is as good as anothers? thats right, opinions are like asshole everyone has one. your opinion is no better than anyone eleses opinion so you should stop saying things like they are gospel and the only truth. think about that.

and it is a waste of time trying to change peoples opinions. people own their opinions and its who they are. you try to form your way of thinking down their throat

[Anonymous No.3368312]

>>3368282
So you would purport that I should consider both my neighbor Bob the plumber's and Stephen Hawking's opinions about the beginning of the universe with the same weight?

You would also hold true that no one can sway anyone else's opinion? That all our opinions are set in stone from the moment we make them and that no new information or way of thinking can change them?

[Anonymous No.3368360]

>>3368282
pleb/10

[Anonymous No.3368395]

A list of a few other things that aren't necessary:

>literature
>music
>the internet
>hamburgers

And yet there they are.

[Anonymous No.3368401]

>>3368282
Your mistaking reviews for criticism. Good literary criticism shares interesting ideas and reveals new perceptions, it doesn't blindly condemn or praise.

[Anonymous No.3368421]

>>3368282

Opinions are only worth as much as they can be argued for. If you can't argue or back up your opinion, then your opinion is worth nothing.

[Anonymous No.3368445]

>>3368401
*You're

D'oh.

[Anonymous No.3368448]

>>3368002
necessary
>no
profitable
>yes

[Anonymous No.3368480]

I will say this: I fucking despise 99% of pop culture criticism.

I mean, I enjoy Klosterman but he opened up the shitgates with SD&CP.

>>3368156
>You're pulp now, lout

Lel.

[Anonymous No.3368490]

>>3368480
>I enjoy Klosterman

Then you're part of the problem.

[Anonymous No.3369391]

>>3368490
He's pretty typical high school reading. I read Killing Yourself To Live (actually pretty good even if he doesn't entirely answer the original questioN), SD&CP, and IV (Klosterman at his most likable, some of his profiles and early newspaper pieces are worth checking out if you're interested in journalism) a couple years back.

Did give The Visible Man a read, but it was fairly bad. Read a little of Downtown Owl afterwards and was surprised that it was actually better.

Stay mad.

[Anonymous No.3369397]

>>3368490
The problem is that it seems like it was federally mandated that everyone start excavating shit they liked as a kid for profundity. Not everyone can do it with even remotely funny insight, and not every little thing you ever liked is worth mining for worth, because an unsurprising amount of it is/was always worthless.

[Anonymous No.3370036]

It's not necessary, there are plenty of fuckers who can and will give thoughtful reviews of works.

On the other hand, you can count on some level of thought in professional critique which is not always to be had in amateur reviews. Pro reviews tend to be in one place too; so you don't have to search all over the internet to figure out how revolutionary the newest Tao Lin is.