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/lit/ - Literature

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3362816 No.3362816 [Reply] [Original]

What does /lit/ think about 'how to write' books.
I am currently working with a bunch of them.

I read Stephen King's 'On Writing', which was interesting, but for the most part it was basically King telling the story how he came to be a succesfull writer. In the middle part he actually starts talking about writing and gives some insight onw how 'he' writes. Still it is an interesting read.
King mentioned 'The Elements of Style', so I checked that book out too. Not being a native English speaker I wasn't sure if I would really get something from it, but to my suprise a lot of the stuff mentioned in there, can be adapted to my native language very easily.

Now I am working with Sol Stein's 'Stein on Writing' which is amazing. I have only read some of it so far, but I already got shown a ton of stuff and the book made me realize how bad of a writer I actually am.


Now my real question. Is it usefull to spend time working with these kind of books, instead of just writing? I think the dilema is, that I am reading about stuff I could do better, but I am not using it for my writing right now. It kinda feels like procastination. Do you guys use 'How to Write' books?
On the other hand, does anyone have experiances with Stein's book 'How to Grow a Novel'?

>> No.3362870

>>3362816
grow a novel by growing a pair, digging in the old brain noodle, and getting a book written

>> No.3363033

bump

>> No.3363038

>>3362816
I'd seriously just focus on writing lots and reading lots, trying to make your reading diverse. Writing gets you practice, reading gets you ideas.

>> No.3363052

I can tell you OP where this thread will go because it happens every time. But first...
King's book is only useful as a motivational tool. When he says he sits down and gets the work done you know he's not lying. Other than that it's autobio fluff.
So, 75% of the know-it-all published novelists here on /lit/ will say things like 'Just imagine a story and write it. Writing books suuuuuck 4u.'
But it sounds like you actually want to write well. In which case it won't hurt you to read anything that another writer has written about writing (and you'll even get to see how they contradict each other.) If you like reading books on writing, go for it.
There is no best way to learn how to write, but every writer whose work I actually admire, when they've written about writing, has admitted they very deeply read the writers they most admire and work from there. Copy, fuck up, mix, blend, etc. until you find your way.
Main thing (here is where I always fail to take my own advice) ass in seat, writing happening daily.

>> No.3363061

>>3363038
That is what I am doing of course. I just decided that I wanted to check out some books about writing to find easily avoidable mistakes. Stein's book has a lot of that stuff.
I don't want to create a set of rules by which I want to write or anything, but some of his information about 'Show, don't tell' or about characterization are very helpfull.

>>3363052
Well that is exactly why I am doing it. I am not supplementing writing and reading by those books, instead I think of them as an addition. I notice stuff I enjoy in books a lot and it sticks to my mind. I have a lot of interesting ideas, but my writing is still flawed with obvious mistakes and the first 50 pages of Stein's book have already helped me to find a good number of them and how to avoide them / change them to something better.

>> No.3364552

bump

>> No.3364557

pretty useless. all you need is a decent manual of style (i.e not white and strunk mmkay) and you're set to go. reading about writing, like posting on 4chan about writing, is just procrastination.

>> No.3364611

>>3364557
Why do you think 'The elements of Style' is bad?
And yes I have to say reading about writing is some kind of procastination and I know I could use the time to write more. On the other hand don't you think that some of the stuff you can learn in these books is good and can help a apsiring writer out?
I mean right now my writing style isn't really good and some of the stuff (not all) that is mentioned in the book (Stein's) and the examples are helping me out a lot.

>> No.3364643

>>3364611
>Why do you think 'The elements of Style' is bad?

geoffrey pullum has a couple of critiques online if you're interested. mostly overcorrection and stylistic suggestion posing as grammatical injunctions.

>don't you think that some of the stuff you can learn in these books is good and can help a apsiring writer out?

nothing he couldn't figure out on his own by studying fiction himself.

>> No.3364660

>>3364643
Ah thanks I will check out what Pullum has to say about it. Overall I did read through it and noted down what I thought was interesting and could be useful.

Well it is true by studying fiction itself I could learn the same, but it would take a lot more time. What I am going for is basically avoiding the typical mistakes one makes when starting out to write.
I am not saying that I don't read other stuff and that I am not noting down things when I read something, that I think is truely great.

>> No.3364684

Methods limit you. If you want to write, to exercise the practice, to explore, then you must not wish for a guide to make it seem more simple, but the intelligence and imagination to overcome that which bothers in your own pieces. Writing is discovery, of yourself, of ideas, of others. You are trying to say something that is passing through you, that is yours. Your own intuition, insight, rationality, sensibility are going to be the only honest guides. "And what if it is bad? And what if it is bad?" That's what everyone is concerned about. Then be bad, recognize it, change it, evolve, transform yourself, say it differently, find a new way. Knowing that what you write is bad is a strenght: it means you know what's good. But otherwise, if you heard of what is good and what is bad, but you don't feel it, then it is empty. You have to trust yourself on that. On the contrary, you'll be playing pretend and you might be extremely good at it and fool others and yourself. But that's not really what writers want. Most people resist these ideas because they feel it is romantic or aimless. Or even that this is too ambitious. That's not it. It's a matter of making use of your introspection and observation, dwelving into words, wanting to write more than wanting to be a writer. Wanting to work and working on your craft. It is to live what you write and write what you live.

>> No.3364702

>>3364684
Great post man! Thanks!

>> No.3364720

Methods and writing guides are like training wheels. They can help you get moving when you don't know how, but in order to really go places you're going to have to learn to do it on your own.

>> No.3364733

>>3364720
Well of course. I don't expect to be a great writer or anything after I finished reading that book. Those are nothing else but helpful little tools, that I might use and see how things work out.
I know that I still have to sit down and write every day or I won't improve even if I read hundreds of 'how to write' books and stuff.

>> No.3364751

>>3364684
r u a writer ?

>> No.3364771

>>3364751
Yes.

>> No.3364802

>>3364771
I don't know, man. language is tricky; It's hard to cover meaning in words. I think we should be grateful or people who provide some theory on it. I've acquired my skills writing essays in university, for what it's worth. However when I write I'm constantly aware of my shortcomings and I'm also considering getting into some of these manuals. I believe Eco also wrote a manual that focuses on essay writing; possibly helpful for aspiring novelists as well >>3364771