/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.3344796]

What the fuck is it with all these stupid libtards thinking this book was racist and was meant to show how barbaric Africans are, when it obviously wasn't?

Why are people today so fucking retarded? Why do they try and shoehorn their stupid beliefs in every fucking piece of literature?

Can we all agree that political correctness is the cancer killing modern society?

[Anonymous No.3344803]

I think the book is shit but for other reasons. You get some people who criticise it for being racist but most people I know say it is of high-quality and well worth a read.

That said, I don't think people can dismiss a book because it is politically or morally unpalatable for them. They are allowed to dislike it for that reason though.

[Anonymous No.3344834]

>>3344803
Eh, the book was shit, IMO, but I think defending it for the sole reason that you're against, what was it, "libtards" makes you kind of an idiot.

Go bother another board.

[Anonymous No.3344840]

>>3344796

The book is actually an argument against Colonialism, but the fuckstains you are talking about are too ignorant to see that.

[Anonymous No.3344850]

>>3344796
>Can we all agree that political correctness is the cancer killing modern society?
>Can we all agree

No.

[Anonymous No.3344871]

for what other reasons was the book shit

[Anonymous No.3344872]

>>3344796
Jeez, whoever told you that is a fucking tool then. Or Chinua Achebe, but he's a tool as well. Although Things Fall Apart is pretty amazing.

Why would you read a book because of its racism anyway, OP?

[Anonymous No.3344881]

>>3344796
>Can we all agree that political correctness is the cancer killing modern society?
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.3345012]

>everyone saying it's shit
What are you even doing in /lit/? It's a great book.

[Anonymous No.3345018]

>>3345012
Fuck out of here heterogenous hivemind faggot

[Anonymous No.3345020]

it's an argument against colonialism yet is still racist in a paternalistic way

it's still a good book though, and the racism should probably be glossed over a bit due to the context it was produced in

[Anonymous No.3345035]

Before the 70s no one thought that. There was a famous essay by an African scholar in the 70s I think (the name escapes me) that brought attention to the racism of the work, even though it probably wasn't intended as such.

[Anonymous No.3345043]

I wanted to read this book because of Apocalypse Now, is it that different?

[Anonymous No.3345052]

>>3344881
Go back to reddit, you little bitch.

[Anonymous No.3345054]

>>3345035

achebe (he's already been mentioned)

>>3345043

yes

[Anonymous No.3345060]

>>3345052
No, leave /lit/ already you shithead

[Anonymous No.3345064]

>>3345060
How about you go to reddit.

butthurt you can't downvote this, faggot? Get mad.

[Anonymous No.3345122]

>>3345064

pls go

[Anonymous No.3346328]

what annoys me more than all those idiots saying the book is shit is that they've chosen a self portrait of gaugain as a cover. how fucking random can you get? is there no thought behind these choices at all?!

[Anonymous No.3346370]

>>3344850
yes. White people won't shut the fuck up about PC cancer. "I saw this black guy and I was like 'yo' and it was SOOOOOOO awkward, I was like 'No! I'm not racist!'" fuck PC, it's why the internet says nigger and faggot all the time, we're sick of the hippies telling us to be nice

[Anonymous No.3346380]

>>3344881
it really does restrict the freedom to say whatever you want

[Anonymous No.3346401]

>>3346328
The paintings on the covers of the Penguin Classics editions of Conrad are pretty disturbing. I like them a lot.

[Anonymous No.3346403]

>What the fuck is it with all these stupid libtards thinking this book was racist and was meant to show how barbaric Africans are, when it obviously wasn't?

that's not what anyone thinks, though.

that's certainly not what Achebe's argument is.

[Anonymous No.3346420]

>>3344796
>Can we all agree that political correctness is the cancer killing modern society

I don't think it's killing society, but art sure is suffering.
Whether or not something is politically correct is simply the least interesting discourse we can have. Take that HBO show Girls, for example. It's a well-written, honest, little slice of life. It's a great study of this generation's lifestyle and shortcomings and yet all we can talk about is the lack of black people in the cast.

[Anonymous No.3346424]

>>3346420

go to bed lena dunham

[Anonymous No.3346436]

>>3346420
Yeah, it's always been kind of weird to me that people focus so much on whether there are enough browns on Girls, when the real problem with it is that (a) it isn't that good and (b) it represents itself as, or is represented by others as, really truthful to and representative, even definitive, of "this generation" when it's nothing of the fucking sort

[Anonymous No.3346537]

>>3346436
Speak for yourself. I feel like I've known each of the characters personally at one time or another in my life. It's disturbingly real at times.

[Anonymous No.3346542]

>>3346436
>it isn't that good

Thanks for those penetrating insights.
Emily Nussbaum of The New Yorker respectfully disagrees.

[Anonymous No.3346563]

OP I'm not sure anybody with any credibility calls this book racist. Let the libtards think what they will, but even my black high school English teacher thought it was a ridiculous notion to call this book rascist. Ignore the idiots.

[Anonymous No.3346568]

>>3346563
Speaking of high school English teachers...

I always loved all of my high school English teachers, but why are all the ones that are women so inferior? They were nofunallowed type people and never wanted to talk personally to the kids.

[Anonymous No.3346672]

>>3345060
You're the one who's on the wrong site.

[Anonymous No.3346694]

>>3345035
but almost 90% of Westerners were racist before 1970s.

(it made sense too; what have the blacks ever accomplished?)

[Anonymous No.3346703]

>>3346568
my male english teacher sucked though. worst teacher I ever saw

[Anonymous No.3346705]

The book's actually a fantastically vivid account of language's tyranny over ontogeny, a gorgeous and troubling depiction of life in a nihilistic void and a masterpiece of early modernism.

The fact that professors entertain discussions of the text's 'racial merit' is a reflection of declining standards in university literary education. On this issue, if not on many others, Bloom is dead right.

[Anonymous No.3346714]

>>3346568

Because women are extraordinarily ambitious at that age, 'I'll write... I'll teach while I write... Oh, I'll just teach', and it's killing them inside to spoon-feed an ugly classroom full of idiots (even bright kids are idiots) drivel about texts they probably hate.

[ƷӜ̵̨̄Ƹ̵̡ No.3346731]

>>3346672
No, we cannot agree that "PC" is ruining society. Sensitivity, asked for or mandated, could hardly cause such ruin. At best its a mild annoyance, nothing more.
Could you agree that the chief problem is the corporation?

[Anonymous No.3346744]

>>3346731
PC =/= mandated sensitivity

[Anonymous No.3346741]

>>3346731
PC is part of the Corporation. It's all about making more consumers, expanding markets to brown people, bringing in cheap labor, and so on.

[Anonymous No.3346750]

>>3346744
>mandated sensitivity
That sounds fucking horrific.

[Anonymous No.3346752]

>>3346741
Smartest post I read all day.

[Anonymous No.3346755]

>>3346705
>The book's actually a fantastically vivid account of language's tyranny over ontogeny, a gorgeous and troubling depiction of life in a nihilistic void and a masterpiece of early modernism.

Among other things.

That said, although I don't think the book is that racist, I think the argument regarding race is much more compelling than people on here make it out to be. Moreover, it's really kind of unfortunate that almost no ITT actually understands Chinua Achebe's actual argument as to why he thinks the book is racist

[ƷӜ̵̨̄Ƹ̵̡ No.3346760]

>>3346744
Didn't say it was. I gave the two options, but I know it is in fact only asked for.

>>3346741
Nonsense. Please be joking. This is like blaming wars on the sun, for is encourages combatants to fight by its light.

[ƷӜ̵̨̄Ƹ̵̡ No.3346769]

>>3346752
>Dumb as a post, all day.

[Anonymous No.3346793]

>>3346769
says a tripfag on an Anonymous board

gtfo

[ƷӜ̵̨̄Ƹ̵̡ No.3346801]

>>3346793
>So newfag he doesn't know what a trip is
Just lurk some more, milky.

[Anonymous No.3346805]

>>3346731
Political correctness encourages a culture of victimhood by catering to thin-skinned pussies.

Corporations are definitely a huge problem with their destruction of the environment and pandering to the lowest common denominator. Both of these issues. however, are just symptoms of the greater slave morality at work in our society.

[Anonymous No.3346806]

>>3346793
>Doesn't understand what a tripfag is.

[ƷӜ̵̨̄Ƹ̵̡ No.3346823]

>>3346805
As I said, an annoyance.

But you underestimate the corporate model's psychotic nature.
"Greater slave morality" You mean mentality?

[Anonymous No.3346832]

>>3346823
>"Greater slave morality" You mean mentality?
Jesus Christ, you insufferable cunt. DYER?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master%E2%80%93slave_morality

[Anonymous No.3346838]

>>3346823
>>3346832
Master–slave morality is a central theme of Friedrich Nietzsche's works, in particular the first essay of On the Genealogy of Morality. Nietzsche argued that there were two fundamental types of morality: 'Master morality' and 'slave morality'. Master morality weighs actions on a scale of good or bad consequences unlike slave morality which weighs actions on a scale of good or evil intentions. What he meant by 'morality' deviates from common understanding of this term. For Nietzsche, a particular morality is inseparable from the formation of a particular culture. This means that its language, codes and practices, narratives, and institutions are informed by the struggle between these two types of moral valuation. Master–slave morality provides the basis of all exegesis of Western thought. While slave morality values things like kindness, humility and sympathy, master morality values pride, strength, and nobility.

[Anonymous No.3346852]

>>3346823
>doesn't know what slave morality is
>on /lit/

u did goofed

[ƷӜ̵̨̄Ƹ̵̡ No.3346854]

>>3346832
>insufferable cunt
>Can't be assed to explain himself
>Posts wikipedia

So. Nietzsche.
>[S]lave morality values things like kindness, humility and sympathy, master morality values pride, strength, and nobility.
Fuck you you insufferable cunt

[ƷӜ̵̨̄Ƹ̵̡ No.3346858]

>>3346852
>/lit/ Philosophy

>This is what philosophy cunts actually believe.
>Costanza.jpg
Oh forgive me massa.

[Anonymous No.3346868]

>>3346858
>Butthurt brokenwings.

[ƷӜ̵̨̄Ƹ̵̡ No.3346880]

>>3346868
>Butthurt
What signs are there of this to see? None in my mirror I assure you.
>Wings
Ever wrong in assuming it a butterfly, you err again.

[Anonymous No.3346893]

Why does Achebe bitch about racism here. Plenty of books and authors rage against homosexuality but no one gives a shit. Could you imagine someone saying Hemingway was shit because he didn't like gays?

Same with Yukio Mishima and William S Burroughs. I know they were faggots, but they didn't exactly invite dick-praise from the nearest sexuality professor.

[Anonymous No.3346948]

You couldn't make it up, it's political correctness gone mad...
youtube.com/watch?v=1IYx4Bc6_eE

[Anonymous No.3346955]

Saïd was a hack, and I enjoy this book.

[Anonymous No.3346988]

>>3346955

there's that word again!

[Anonymous No.3347027]

>>3346948

>Suppressing free speech.
>Better for most.

I understand what he's saying, but he's wrong. Looking over your shoulder and being careful about every single thing you say for fear of punishment contributes to a helluva lot of anxiety, suppressed anger, ill-will and reluctance to associate with other races.

I think people are polite not because calling someone a nigger or a faggot has been beaten down by some abstract concept like 'PC', but because people are, on the whole, more open-minded these days.

My aunt says racist things in private. Because she can't say these things publically, there are very few people that can counter her arguments. Her friends and family are hardly going to do it. Who wants to upset his aunt?

[Anonymous No.3347140]

>>3347027

It would be a suppression of free speech if the utterance of "nigger" was illegal.

any way, "political correctness" is not new. It's an idea as old as Aristotle. In those days, they called it "rhetoric." Rhetoric is persuasion; if your message is riddled with "niggers" and "faggots" and "fuck this" or "fuck that," it harms its persuasiveness and mass appeal.

Maybe 100 years ago, the use of nigger didnt have any rhetorical consequences. But things changed, and some political groups that were formally subjugated and irrelevant actually matter now, like it or not. And it behooves the rest of us to change our rhetoric, if not for the ideological reasons of equality and fairness, at least for the functional advantages in interpersonal communication and persuasion.

In other words, while it certainly is about treating others with respect and dignity, rhetorical poise is useful for anyone that wants to get a message across (and I think that this whole idea that we are PC solely because of liberal sensitivity and weakness is a manifestation of racism in and of itself).

[Anonymous No.3347145]

There are legitimate problems with 'political correctness' in academia, and in the world. They aren't that you can't call black people niggers, and they aren't that there's an a minority otherwise ignored that reads Heart of Darkness and dismiss it as racist trash. They are not notably liberal, they are people who do not read.

Now quit using literature as a tool to shoehorn your inane prejudice (for the sake of stirring shit) into things.

[Anonymous No.3347147]

>>3347140

I agree. We shouldn't be calling the kid in the class a nigger. But you can be arrested for this in the United Kingdom and elsewhere in Europe (where this guy seems to be based).

PC with enforcement does make people feel anxious. It's totalitarianism - you must suit the ideal. We should of course call these people idiots, but we shouldn't jump up and down demanding their arrest.

[Anonymous No.3347149]

I didn't make this clear enough. Of course, if a teacher is continually calling a kid by racist slurs this can mean harassment.

What I think is stupid is that people are arrested for making offensive facebook posts.

[Anonymous No.3347158]

>>3347145
are you saying that critical theory like feminist theory or race theory are "for the sake of stirring shit?"

[Anonymous No.3347169]

>>3346420
>yet all we can talk about is the lack of black people in the cast

To be honest, it's an argument minorities make about almost every show, it's just that people were looking for a way to piss on Lena Dunham and so they took up that one.

[Anonymous No.3347175]

>>3344796

>What the fuck is it with all these stupid libtards thinking this book was racist and was meant to show how barbaric Africans are, when it obviously wasn't?

"Libtard" here. Had no problem with this books. One of my favorites.

>Why are people today so fucking retarded? Why do they try and shoehorn their stupid beliefs in every fucking piece of literature?

It's called "interpretation." It happens even when people aren't trying. Like you. Right now.

And right here:

>Can we all agree that political correctness is the cancer killing modern society?

While some of the people fighting racism and homophobia can be more annoying than homophobes and racists, and while some of them even LEND the racists and homophobes some credence, I would hardly say they are "the cancer killing modern society." I've run into far more racists and homophobes who were unreasonable morons than people who opposed them who were unreasonable morons. I've never been yelled at by my black friends for using "nigga" in a joking context. Times are changing for the better. I would hardly say political correctness is any more of a "cancer" than say... I don't know... CANCER?! Or racism. Or homophobia. Or overreach of government power. Or overreach of corporate power. Or religion. Or anti-intellectualism. Or political reactionaries such as yourself who see too much of a good thing as something which needs to be opposed with a bad thing.

But thanks for trying.

Love Heart of Darkness btw. Not so much for itself, as for how vague it is. So many derivative stories can be made from it. Like Apocalypse, Now!

Any author could have their own HoD.

[Anonymous No.3347197]

>>3347158
I'm saying the 'crusade on political correctness' is just masturbatory shit-stirring.

[Anonymous No.3347204]

>>3347175
I honestly thought that book was boring though.

[Anonymous No.3347263]

>>3347204

This feels pretentious as fuck, but I've always seen it as a book for writers, instead of readers.

It's so vague with everything. It's language. It's symbolism. It's characters.

It feels more like a schematic for a good story than a good story, and that's honestly what I always want as a writer.

Really good stories take a good idea I've already had and make me go "Fuck, now I'll never do that."

[Anonymous No.3347331]

>>3347175

[Anonymous No.3347345]

i agree

[Anonymous No.3347347]

>>3347175

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