/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.3335211]

Lets discuss Tolkien, shall we?

[Anonymous No.3335220]

The ghost army is clearly not a deus ex machina as they are introduced before they come to save the day.

[Anonymous No.3335229]

>>3335220
It is contrived as fuck, though. And it did come into the story out of nowhere. "...Oh, and btw, there's an invincible army of ghosts that owes a debt to the bloodline of Isildur"

[Anonymous No.3335231]

The Eagles would have been a better example.

[Anonymous No.3335246]

>>3335231
This. Also, Gandalf being resurrected literally by "Deus" himself.

[Anonymous No.3335251]

>>3335211
> Complains about 'deus ex machina' in an epic myth designed to explore the divine spark inherent in creation

On second thought, lets not do that; let's discuss you being a moron instead.

[Anonymous No.3335253]

>>3335231

Well, even they had their set up when Gandalf was rescued from that tower, unless you count that as a deus ex machina too. But it is pretty lame storytelling nonetheless.
Deus ex machina and contrived storytelling aren't synonyms, people should stop using them as such. It's definitely funny when they include a definition of the word as in the image of the OP and still get it wrong.
Read some early Greek plays if you want a good idea of what a deus ex machina is. It quite literally comes from the idea that an actor playing some deity would descend from the sky using theatre machines at the end of the play to solve the situation that the playwright wrote himself into.

[Anonymous No.3335259]

Yes because the god from the machine sure made the odyssey turn out shit

[Anonymous No.3335270]

>>3335229
"...Oh, and btw, there's a golden ring that turns people invisible."

[Anonymous No.3335289]

>>3335270
>being this stupid

[Anonymous No.3335294]

>>3335259
There's deus ex machina in the Odyssey? I think every time a god intervenes in the action it is set up beforehand.

[Anonymous No.3335296]

>>3335289
>being a robot

[Anonymous No.3335317]

>>3335289
>Can only resort to mockery.

It seems he won.

[Anonymous No.3335328]

>>3335296
Anon pls, it's called "android".

Kids these days...

[Anonymous No.3335336]

>>3335294
>There's deus ex machina in the Odyssey?
No, there isn't.

[Anonymous No.3335338]

>>3335294
Yes, it's a prominent feature in Greek Literature. It was specifically highlighted by Aristotle in his poetics, where he criticized the Greek playwright Euripides for using the device in Medea and other plays I think. Wasn't called deus ex machina though, that's it's Latin name.

[Anonymous No.3335342]

>>3335338
Forgot to note it referred to a crane used to pull gods above/onto stage.

[Anonymous No.3335347]

IIRC, Peter Jackson himself hated the whole ghost army mumbo jumbo and actually considered omitting it, but caved in fearing he'd enrage the fans.

[Anonymous No.3335354]

>>3335229
But tbf, the good guys were always going to be written as the victors. if it wasn't by ghost army then it would just be 'lol aragorn so strong'

[Anonymous No.3335365]

>>3335347
Peter Jackson also wrote a scene at the end of the Return of the King, where Aragorn fights an apparition of Sauron - but he changed his mind during editing and replaced the apparition with a troll. True facts.

[Anonymous No.3335374]

>>3335317
>he won
>implying you're not samefag
>implying there's anything to win
>implying the post he responded to wasn't itself intended as mockery
>implying you're not wrong

[Anonymous No.3335375]

>>3335347
He made it even worse than it was in the books. Honestly all of the film battles involve some sort of unexpected aid which is portrayed as being the only reason for them winning. The army of the dead didn't do practically anything in the books, but in the movies they win the entire battle for Minas Tirith?

[Thúrin No.3335906]

> Beowulf
> The 13th Warrior
> The Hobbit
The number 13 is a significant element in these stories.
Everybody knows a lot about "13" (mis)beliefs from our world...
Some consider it lucky, some fear it.

But why is the 13 considered unlucky in Arda???
Some historical reason? Or is it simply a foolish superstition?

[Anonymous No.3336388]

Just finished reading the Hobbit, on to fellowship of the ring now.

Such a beautiful story, it may not be some feat of some philosophical might but good stories are usually the original reason why we read.

also tolkiens gollum voice is great, Jackson actually got it right in the films.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VOdv2RE4jg

[Anonymous No.3337944]

>>3335211
OP has only seen the film. OP has not read Return of the King.

[Anonymous No.3337950]

>painted herself into a corner

Kind of glad to see a lack of patriarchy for a change, to be quite honest.

[Anonymous No.3337967]

>>3337950
>Kind of glad to see a lack of patriarchy for a change, to be quite honest.

I didn't even notice the gender over the catachresis.

[Anonymous No.3337968]

>>3337950

>using "herself" as a subtle attack on the competency of female writers

you patriarchal pig check your privilege

[Anonymous No.3337978]

>>3337950
Except it's just utterly wrong when specifically talking about Tolkein, themselves is the usual term for the author figure anyway so this use of 'herself' is especially stupid and trite

[Anonymous No.3338014]

>>3337950
>herself
>only representing one arm of the gender spectrum

Check it.

[sage No.3338017]

>>3335375
this, a thousand times this

the army of ghosts only scared the corsairs of umbar away.

the battle was won by an alliance between gondor, rohan, and prince imrahil (boromir's and faramir's uncle), as well as southerners who approached in the corsair's ships.
the ghosts themselves did not fight in the book.

8/10 made me cringe, saged for troll thread

[Anonymous No.3338021]

>>3335375
But then you open yourself up to an even greater problem, which arises from the audience questioning why Aragorn needed to leave at all if the Army of the Dead were not really that necessary. And also it creates the feeling that you've wasted their time with an unnecessary and inconsequential plot diversion.

[sage No.3338029]

>>3338021
Out on the Pelennor Fields, the battle was turning against Gondor and its allies. Though the Rohirrim had inflicted enormous damage on their enemies, Sauron's forces were still numerically superior, and Gothmog, the lieutenant of Minas Morgul, who had assumed field command on the death of the Witch-king, summoned reserves from nearby Osgiliath. The Rohirrim were now on the southern half of the Pelennor, with enemies between them and the Anduin, and Gothmog's reinforcements threatened to occupy the centre of the Pelennor, thus surrounding the Rohirrim and preventing the Gondorian troops from joining with them. Éomer was by this time only about a mile from the Harlond, so rather than cut his way through to the river, he prepared to make a last stand on a hill.

Meanwhile, a fleet of ships, apparently the navy of the Corsairs of Umbar, who were Sauron's allies, sailed up Anduin to the Harlond. Just before reaching the quays, the flagship unfurled the ancient banner of the Kings of Gondor. This sight alone put heart into the Rohirrim and Imrahil's forces and demoralised Sauron's armies. The ships indeed were manned by Aragorn and his Rangers of the North, Gimli the Dwarf, Legolas the Elf, the Half-elven brothers Elladan and Elrohir and many troops from south Gondor. (Later in the book, Legolas and Gimli relate how a ghostly host commanded by Aragorn, the Dead Men of Dunharrow, captured the ships from the Corsairs chiefly through fear.)

This proved the turning point of the battle. A large portion of Sauron's forces were now pinned between Aragorn's and Éomer's forces, while Imrahil's troops advanced from the direction of the city. Though the advantage now rested with Gondor, fighting continued throughout the day, until at sunset no living enemy remained on the Pelennor Fields. A brief respite was won.
FUCK
YOU

[Anonymous No.3338036]

>>3338029
Christ that's uninspired.

[Anonymous No.3338544]

>>3338014
blame english for failing to have a gender-neutral singular pronoun, and no "one" does not count.

[Anonymous No.3338549]

>>3338544
It counts as much as "mann" in German.

[Anonymous No.3338676]

You know OP, in the ghost only rushed out of Blackroot Vale following Aragorn and the true heroes, the GREY COMPANY (Which was fucked up of Peter Jackson to omit). Then Blackroot (Those left behind by the lords who went ahead to Minas Tirith) and the other fiefdoms of Gondor followed the ghosts.

The ghosts only scared the Corsairs and the Grey Company and the rest of the fiefdoms of Gondor fought the battle and manned the ships. There was a major battle in the south before the Pelennor fields one during the Dawnless Day.

Pic Related: OP is a fag.

[Anonymous No.3338708]

>>3335906
Some say it's origin is that Phillip IV of France ordered the Kinghts Templar to be disbanded and arrested on a friday the 13th.

[Anonymous No.3338712]

>>3338708
It comes from a novel, pre-1900 the superstition didn't exist

[Anonymous No.3338716]

>>3338708
>some say
You mean Dan Brown says

[Anonymous No.3338723]

>>3338029

to be fair, an invincible ghost army that kills everyone is more exciting than this stuff here.

[Anonymous No.3338775]

>>3337968

lol/10

thank you anon

[Anonymous No.3338778]

>>3337968

>using "himself" as an attack on the competency of both male and female writers
>not more degrading

[Anonymous No.3338782]

>>3338778
not knowing what a joke is, you stupid aspie fuck

[Anonymous No.3338784]

>>3338782

>not using a joke to make a point