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/lit/ - Literature

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3329191 No.3329191 [Reply] [Original]

How do I get into poetry? I want to be able to appreciate poetry before I attempt to write any so I don't sound like a bumbling fool. I would imagine I start with T.S. Elliot or Ezra Pound, but I'm not sure. What do you think /lit/?

I like Morrissey and The Smiths and he's kind of a poet, so I guess I already have somewhat of a head start. Pic related, he is also kind of a poet.

>> No.3329218
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3329218

>I like Morrissey and The Smiths and he's kind of a poet
>Pic related, he is also kind of a poet

>>>/mu/

>> No.3329223

>>3329191
you could start by reading one of the other 876543765 /lit/ threads on this subject.

>> No.3329229

>>3329218
That isn't what the thread is about though. The thread is about where should I start, not what I like. I just added it in there to say that I'm not completely oblivious to poetry as an artform.

Thanks for bumping my thread though.

>> No.3329232

>>3329223
If I saw one I would have read it, I didn't see one so I posted my own thread.

>> No.3329240

>>3329191
http://www.amazon.com/Great-American-Poems-Thrift-Editions/dp/0486401588/ref=pd_sim_b_1

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Loved-Poems-Dover-Thrift-Editions/dp/0486285537/ref=pd_sim_b_1


Find the type of poetry you like and walk with that to get your feet wet. You aren't going to like or understand everything, don't let that get you down.

Always read poetry out loud. If you are reading it in your head, you are doing it wrong.

Feel as you read. Put yourself in the poem. BE THE POEM. Seriously.

>> No.3329242

>>3329218

Morrissey wrote actual poetry aside from his music with The Smiths.

>> No.3329247

Read Juan Gelman. One of the best poets ever

>> No.3329251

>>3329242

source

>> No.3329256

>>3329251
I don't think any of his poetry was published but everyone knows that all the lyrics to The Smiths songs were just Morrissey's poems that he wrote.

>> No.3329266

>>3329256

The guy was a musician
He wrote songs, not poems

>> No.3329269

>>3329242

pretty much this but not completely>>3329256

http://jacketmagazine.com/34/c-morrissey.shtml

>> No.3329279

>>3329266
He wasn't a musician, he didn't even play any instruments in the band. He wrote the lyrics and lyrics without music are called poems. He wrote poems and Johnny Marr wrote music to the poems, simple as that. Morrissey is a poet and a lyricist but not a musician.

>>3329269
Wrong Stephen Morrissey lol.

>> No.3329286

>>3329279

Damn do I feel stupid. This is what I get for trying to sound smart.

>> No.3329299

"The rain falls hard on a humdrum town, this town will drag you down."

>> No.3329305

>>3329279
He sung over music thus he is not a poet

>> No.3329314

>>3329305
He is a poet before a singer.

>> No.3329323

>>3329314
Nope he wrote words with the intention of putting them to music. God knows why you want to label him as a poet anyway, if you make him one he's shit

>> No.3329325

>>3329314
>>3329305

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ownZDWNIRs

Funny story for those of you who don't know.

Frankly Mr Shankly is about the head of Rough Trade Records, Geoff Travis. The label which The Smiths were signed to at the time.

Morrisey was upset about the deal the band were on, and the basic fact that they weren’t making any money. So he wrote a song making fun of Geoff Travis, and disguised it as a letter to the fictional “Mr Shankly”.

However, he gave it away (probably purposefully) with the line.

“I didn’t realise you wrote poetry. I didn’t realize you wrote such bloody awful poetry”.

Geoff Travis apparently used to write poetry, and for many years previous to the song sent it to Morrissey (a fellow poet), for his opinion.

>> No.3329326

>>3329323
Did you know he was a failed writer before he was in The Smiths? He also loved Oscar Wilde.

>> No.3329331

He stole a bunch of lines from shitty English kitchen sink dramas and 'obscure' writers like Pessoa. Boring, but I must admit he's a good business man. What is he up to now anyway? Still whining with millions in the bank, probably.

>> No.3329330

>>3329325
Why did he add that piece about writing Xmas cards for retards?

>> No.3329336

>>3329314
source?
he was in bands when still a teenager wasn't he?

I mean, I used to write song lyrics and hand them to my mate who would put them to music, but I would never call myself a poet.
Writing poetry is a much more involved process.

>> No.3329338

>>3329331
Hey, fuck you mate.

>> No.3329341

>>3329330

Can't take it out of context.

>Fame, fame, fatal fame
It can play hideous tricks on the brain
But still I'd rather be famous
Than righteous or holy, any day
Any day, any day
But sometimes I'd feel more fulfilled
Making Christmas cards with the mentally ill

>> No.3329360

>>3329341
I've heard the song a million times, I understand the context. I just don't get why he chose that line instead of something else that didn't sound so cheesy.

>> No.3329369

The song was better when I used to think it was about Bill Shankly

>> No.3329371

>>3329360

Well I don't know man. I'm not Morissey

>> No.3329384

>>3329369
Morrissey doesn't like football, but Johnny Marr almost was a football player.

>> No.3329410

ignore every poet before the 20th century

and ignore robert frost

>> No.3329421

>>3329384
>Morrissey doesn't like football,
Of course the pretentious twat doesn't

>> No.3329425

>>3329410
go to bed, ezra.

>> No.3329432

>>3329425
thanks, i'll take your advice. reading about unrequited love in iambic pentameter will sure put me to sleep.

>> No.3329759

Tom Waits was a great lyricist, Morrisey was a good one.

Both are, at best, horrible to mediocre "poets".

No musician has even surpassed the level of "middling" as a poet.

>> No.3329762

Isn't Waits technically retarded?

>> No.3329792

>>3329762
>>3329762
This explains so much

>> No.3329799

>>3329191
best to start with baudelaire

>> No.3329802

>>3329191
Read Ovid's Metamorphosis.

Then pick up a compendium of sorts which hosts bits and pieces of poets throughout history. Read the entire thing. Then decide which style of poetry is for you. It's that simple.

>> No.3329819

If you like Leonard Cohen which it seems like you might you should read Beautiful Losers. I like it a lot better than his poetry, anyway

>> No.3329827

So you could, oh, I don't know look around at what's available.

It sounds like you're interested in modern poetry seeing as you mention Eliot and Pound. If that's the case The Norton Anthology of Modern Poetry is indispensable and provides introductions to each poet anthologized describing some aspect of their work which the editors find important to how we understand and read poetry in the 20th century. After that I'd suggest actually reading poetry volumes by the people you end up liking from that anthology and then looking at who those writers liked, etc.

>> No.3330097

>>3329762
source?
google turns up naught.

>> No.3330117

>>3329191

There's a book from the sixties by Frances Stillman called the Poet's Manual. Half is just a rhyming dictionary but the other half is a very simple walk through of most basic poetic form, discussions on free verse, rhythm etc. It's not exhaustive but it's a very good 'in,' and as you say you are hoping to begin writing poetry it will help you there as well.

>> No.3330150

>>3329240
this. do this.

>> No.3330171

>>3329240
Be the poem.
Is this seriously an advice?

I hate how poetry turned from a craft to fuzzy feelings.

Study prosody. Study form, rhythm and verse. There are things you need to understand in order to enjoy proper poetry.

There are techniques and skills.
If you don't learn about these things you'll end up worshiping pretend poets like the beats and what nots.

>> No.3330319

>>3329759
I would argue that there are exceptions to this rule, such as Bob Dylan and Jeff Mangum

>> No.3330324

>>3330319
>>>/mu/

>> No.3330327

>>3329759

>who is Leonard Cohen

>> No.3330359

>>3330324
>implying I would ever go back to that shithole

>> No.3330377

Gently they stir, gently rise
The dead are newborn awakening
With ravaged limbs and wet souls
Gently they sigh in rapt funeral amazement
Who called these dead to dance?
Was it the young woman learning to play the ghost song on her baby grand?
Was it the wilderness children?
Was it the ghost god himself, stuttering, cheering, chatting blindly?
I called you up to anoint the earth
I called you to announce sadness falling like burned skin
I called you to wish you well
To glory in self like a new monster
And now I call you to pray

>> No.3330376

>>3329762
What? Explain!

>> No.3330381

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzlrLimUaYM

Don't go to bed please Tom.

>> No.3330392

anyone lived in a pretty how town
(with up so floating many bells down)
spring summer autumn winter
he sang his didn't he danced his did

Women and men(both little and small)
cared for anyone not at all
they sowed their isn't they reaped their same
sun moon stars rain

children guessed(but only a few
and down they forgot as up they grew
autumn winter spring summer)
that noone loved him more by more

when by now and tree by leaf
she laughed his joy she cried his grief
bird by snow and stir by still
anyone's any was all to her

someones married their everyones
laughed their cryings and did their dance
(sleep wake hope and then)they
said their nevers they slept their dream

stars rain sun moon
(and only the snow can begin to explain
how children are apt to forget to remember
with up so floating many bells down)

one day anyone died i guess
(and noone stooped to kiss his face)
busy folk buried them side by side
little by little and was by was

all by all and deep by deep
and more by more they dream their sleep
noone and anyone earth by april
wish by spirit and if by yes.

Women and men(both dong and ding)
summer autumn winter spring
reaped their sowing and went their came
sun moon stars rain

>> No.3330402

>>3329759
b-but what about Isaac Brook?

>> No.3333139

>>3329762
yes, he is. he was trying so hard to be beat-singer in the end he succeeded.

>> No.3333224

>>3330327
>>3330319
Leonard Cohen and Bob Dylan are both great lyricists, but if they put out they're lyrics as books of poetry, they wouldn't get published.

>>3330319
>>3330402

>Jeff Mangum
>Isaac Brock

No.

>> No.3333232
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3333232

>>3333224
>but if they put out they're lyrics as books of poetry, they wouldn't get published.

>> No.3333263

>>3333224
>>3333232
oh shi--!

>> No.3333273

>>3333224
But Cohen already did get published, long before he started making music.

>> No.3333284

>>3329191
>>3329191

Yo, OP. I need to read this too someday. I'd recommend Arthur Rimbaud as well.

>> No.3333288

>>3333224
>Cohen's lyrics wouldn't be published
>They literally are
>He was a published poet before he was a songwriter
>C'mon man

>> No.3333290

lots of people in this thread need to relearn what a ballad is

>> No.3333294

>>3333284

damn it. Forgot link. My bad.

http://www.eapoe.org/works/essays/ratlvrsd.htm

>> No.3333327

If your poetry rhymes, you're a faggot. Just know that before you write it. Meter is for pussies.

>> No.3333375

>>3330171
Any recommended resources on the craft of poetry?

>> No.3333516

Srsly /lit/, make them try harder.

>> No.3333714

start with Ginsberg's better stuff. High quality, accessible, influential, everything you could want. Then read Prufrock and The Wasteland.

>> No.3333751

>>3329191

Start with pound?! Do you teach a child to read using war and peace?? Grab something entry level man. Read some whitman or something. When you get better at comprehension you can try some Berryman or O'Hara.

>> No.3333760

>>3329191
Prose is vastly better than poetry in relating the intelligible. Music is incomparably superior to poetry in relating the unintelligible.

>> No.3333762

fucking Wordsworth

>> No.3333773

>>3329191
I don't know how to write poetry. Fall in love.

>> No.3333787

>>3333139

listem to "time" or any song from Small Change. Change your mind, kinda.

>> No.3333788

>>3329191

>I want to be able to appreciate poetry before I attempt to write any so I don't sound like a bumbling fool.

You should have a talk with 90% of the people who post OC poetry on /lit/. Spread the knowledge my friend.

>> No.3333798

>>3333788
are you in the 10%?

>> No.3333818

>>3333788

Yes, I make sure I always read more than I write. I'm not saying I'm any good. But it's a fucking start. I can't stand kids who throw a shit poem up and say HAI GUISE I DONT READ POETRY AND I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO WRITE POETRY BUT IS THIS ANY GOOD I ROTE IT BECAUSE MY GF DUMPED ME.

>> No.3333869

>>3333288
>>3333232
I stand retarded.

I still maintain that they are not good poets, but of course it's subjective.