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/lit/ - Literature

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3327699 No.3327699 [Reply] [Original]

How does one criticize consumerism without sounding like an edgy teenager?

>> No.3327720

Being informed and intelligent.

>> No.3327729

>>3327699
Control your vitriol, speak more through actions.

>> No.3327724

point out that natural resources are limited, and because of that, consumerism can't last forever.

>> No.3327738

It's difficult.

I'm 20 years old and I feel like I can't talk about it without looking like an edgy douche. I'm aware of how little I know compared to others, so I'm not going to talk about it in a pretentious way, but, damn, you sound like a 14 year old AnOnAmOuS xD we r legion fellow every time.

>> No.3327740

>>3327699
Facts.
see >>3327724
Defending consumerism is the edge.

>> No.3327749

Why not just enjoy it while it lasts? Don't nice things make you happy? Personally, I feel very privileged to live in the brief window of energy excess where things are abundant and cheap. No generation before us has had access to this and only a few potentially after us will have it any better.

>> No.3327753

Don't exaggerate it too much. Yes, we live in a consumerist culture, but no, people don't experience an orgasm-like spasm of joy from shopping.

I'm looking at you, DeLillo.

>> No.3327771

>>3327699
A lot of post 1960 Marxists dealt with this. Read some Situationists or something.

Although, if you reference Situationist arguments, you'll just sound like a wanking intellectual douche rather than an edgy teenaged douche.

>> No.3327787
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3327787

>>3327771
I hate working. Where are the robots at?

>> No.3327798

by not using the word consumerism. use your own words and realize there's a -vast- scale of grey between concepts, that the following words automatically, instantly make you look like a guy with paranoid disorders:

system
the man
society
all the germans/americans/italians/chinese are X
nihilism
consumerism
western society
comunism
fascism
freedom
charismatic leader
people in general are/do/give

most of these words ring differently inside different people, stop it.

>> No.3327805

>>3327798
OP here

I hate using the word society because it makes me sound like I'm not a part of it, but really is there a better synonym?

>> No.3327817

>>3327798
and i forgot the most important one.

they made/make/will/won't
if you use that they you are stupid fucking fuck.

>> No.3327826
File: 56 KB, 500x467, pig.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3327826

>>3327699
Go the rational way and demonstrate how acquiring new things for it's own sake does not in fact make people happier in any lasting way. Explain how every worthwhile philosophy and religion has always tried to correct these tendencies and that they all point towards roughly the same things that make a person happy and how this is backed up by psychology and all kinds of (semi) science. Don't get mad or hate on consumerism, simply treat it as a wrong turn taken in the quest for happiness that needs to be corrected for everyone's sake. Go about it like giving friendly health advice instead of mocking people for their habits.

Emphasise how the way towards acquiring new goods is quite a struggle, how the pleasure from acquiring it is short lived, and how these things can have quite the backlash in the form of debts and care and obligations. Also, show all the rewards available for those who live less consumerist like leisure time, reduced stress, more time for health and well being, more time for friends and family and philosophical/spiritual development etc. Always remain focussed about how consumerism is making the person you are talking to less happy than they can be. Don't try shaming and blaming them, it will just lead to defensiveness.

>> No.3327835

>>3327805
a society is a group of people joining together for a common goal. using "society" is like saying that the whole local community had a massive meeting and decided they wanted to do what they are doing. stop that. society is a buzzword at best that you heard when you were young and thought "yeah! that person using that word must mean what i can't express yet due to my age! that's it, best word."

>> No.3327839
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3327839

The more you read, the more you'll surprise people.

It's not just a matter of saying "consumerism is bad and there is this and there is that", even if what you say makes sense. You have to bring something new to the table, either by saying the same thing in an elegant way that nobody said before or adding something that was missing. You have to aim for the reader's catharsis. There has to be a twist to it.

When we are talking about a subject to which everyone has something to say, that a lot was already said at all levels of education, then you have to go beyond. You have to be more fierce, more eloquent or more knowledgeable. Otherwise, it will be just tiresome and annoying to read, you'll be a parrot, a noise, a leftover of the collective mind.

The focus should be in making a claim to explain your epiphany on it, but to provoke an epiphany on the reader and make him take your claim as if it was his.

And for this to happen to someone who has read and seen a lot, it will certainly be harder than usual. So you have to give them something completely new.

>>3327738
When you turn 50, you'll look at the 20 year old guys and you'll have the same reaction as soon as they open their mouth, even if you agree with them. Be patient with that.

>> No.3327848

It's also very important to walk the walk. Live austerely and frugally or be an easy target to be accused of hypocrisy.

>> No.3327852

Why do our dreams become so much smaller when we grow up? You are still able to achieve greatness. Do not settle for quenching your dreams with the small satisfaction given by a 3d-hd 40' television.

>> No.3327853

By reading No Logo or else just knowing what the fuck you're talking about,

>> No.3327858

>>3327848
*and be happy while doing it. The best way to promote a way of life is to live it and to seem happier than those who don't live this way. It's how the Ancients rolled. Preach by example.

>> No.3327860

Funny anecdote:

A local occupier got arressted at a protest. When they gave him his arrest-report upon releasing him the form said under "Reason for arrest : anticapitalism" and under "contens of pockets: ipad, iphone."

:D

>> No.3327867

>>3327860
how do you fit an ipad in your pocket?

>> No.3327870

>>3327852
Because greatness is a silly romantic notion that doesn't really matter all that much.

>> No.3327871

>>3327860
What country are you in where "Anticapitialism" is an arrestable offense?

>> No.3327874

>>3327860
Is "anticapitalism" really a crime in the US? I actually find that hard to believe.

>> No.3327875
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3327875

>>3327867

>> No.3327878

>>3327874

Not a crime, but it makes anybody engaging in it look like a fucking idiot.

>> No.3327879

>>3327875
For the modern samurai.

>> No.3327880

>>3327860
>hurr apple products are incompatible with a dislike for capitalism, everyone against capitalism should be a luddite primitivist or use korean hardware

>> No.3327882

>>3327871
>>3327874

It's bullshit

>> No.3327886

>>3327867
pockets - bags - whatever, I was translating on the fly from german. But you get my point.

>> No.3327893

if you personally are happier/better adjusted from not buying random shit people will take notice

if you aren't you probably shouldn't be trying to convince people anyway

>> No.3327895

>>3327870
True, much like a new TV or iPad.

>> No.3327904

i'll just throw this out here:
you guys watch too much tv or advertising in general, and make the assumption that people being happy in the spots = people in real life being happy after buying something. which doesn't happen. people shopping around are usually miserable, unless it's clothing or hobbisms, which make the people happy for the use of the newly aquired asset, not the act of buying. christ.

>> No.3327908

>>3327880
>rereleased every year with barely any new features
>marketed and sold based mainly on their appearance
>outsourcing almost slave labour to make them
>destroying the planet to make them

But hey, as long as you get to ask Siri funny questions.

>> No.3327910

not /lit/ related you dumb fuckers, stop making bad posts

>> No.3327913

You totally don't get the point. The funny bit here is how stupid the cop was, filling out this form. The occupy guy prolly got arrested for taking part in a blockade or something.

>> No.3327914

>>3327908

What brand of computer are you posting from?

>> No.3327916

>>3327895
Indeed. Both are not all that important to living a fulfilled life and both are a trick to acquire self worth, whether it be "I'm awesome because I have a Benz" or "I'm awesome because I'm the world's best composer". Both have very little to do with happiness.

>> No.3327920

>>3327914
I use a Lemote Yeeloong that's running trisquel

>> No.3327918

Isn't buying a lot of novels consumerism? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just wondering.

>> No.3327925

>>3327904
and to be honest, most of the talking about "society" "consumerism" "capitalism" etc seem to me to just stem from fear or insecurity of going in some form of psychological wrong direction.

>> No.3327926

>>3327908
Sounds like every worthwhile computing device these days. Except for the appearance thing, most still fail at that.

>> No.3327938

>>3327920
Lel. Freetard pls go. You're not saving the world by running opensource software.

>> No.3327944

>>3327918
>2013
>still buying books
You some kinda faggot, boy?

>> No.3327946

One does not. There is nothing wrong with it.

>> No.3328005

>>3327699
Why would you do that? Serious question.

>> No.3328011

>>3327798
this is the most retarded post I read today.

>> No.3328013

>>3327944
some kind of european

>> No.3328018

There's nothing wrong with wanting a better life for yourself and your kin. The vice comes when you're needlessly wasteful, not because you bought a high end watch.

>> No.3328022

If you sound like you don't have an alternative motive.

>> No.3328024

>>3328011
Not that guy, but I must say that I understand him - seeing how the left is at this point reduced to young people posting 'fuck the system' from their iphones, fat activists, militant fat activists and old hippies, one can't help but cringe when he hears that kind of speech. It is not about the words, but about the people using them.

>> No.3328027

>>3328024
Not the guy you're replying to, but if you hate the left so much why don't you just become a republican already?

>> No.3328034

>>3328027
Does not compute. I'm an atheist but I cringe every time new atheist Hitchens/Dawkins worshipping scum come along. In fact I normally state that I don't believe in God when the question arises, pussyfooting around the word atheist deliberately.

>> No.3328044

>>3328034
Why don't you go to r/agnosticism and bitch about how annoying atheist are with the other edgy redditors.

>> No.3328046

>>3328027
>hate the left
I sing the Internationale while doing random things almost every day. I even know a verse and the chorus in French.

>> No.3328050

Why criticize consumerism? I think people get sick of hearing anti-consumerist diatribes because most critics are all talk.

*Act* in defiance to consumerism. Simply: stop buying shit you don't need. Give away the shit you already bought but don't need. Share stuff. Stop giving and receiving useless gifts. Stop consuming tons of entertainment.

>> No.3328055

>>3328050
B-but I don't get my cred if I do it silently (or even do it at all)!

>> No.3328059
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3328059

>>3327699

>> No.3328064

>>3328050

I hate it because I don't know why I should care. I work 40 hours a week. if I want a bunch of shite to take occupy my free time, I'm going to buy it. A whiney author who read too much Marx isn't going to get me to change my ways.

>> No.3328065

>>3328055
if a tree falls in the woods and nobody says good job, tree that was an incredible fall, will it still be able to feel validated?

also why does everyone keep saying be the change you want to see in the world in longer less interesting ways? and why are they saying it instead of doing it?

>> No.3328068
File: 49 KB, 400x294, diogenes3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3328068

>>3327699
>How does one criticize consumerism without sounding like an edgy teenager?
be like this

>> No.3328078

Criticizing consumerism is the expression of slave morality.

>> No.3328082

>>3328068

>Diogenes not the first and ultimate edgy teen

Nice try, though

>> No.3328088

>>3328068
You do know that Diogenes used to masturbate in public, right?

>> No.3328091

>>3328082
>Nietzsche not ultimate edgy teen

>> No.3328092
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3328092

>>3327875
It's my opinion that, as technology progresses unhampered by the limitations of resource, humans will begin to dress more and more like mobile suits from the Gundam series.

This, incidentally, is my refutation to consumerism.

>> No.3328095

>>3328088
Are you implying this takes away from his credibility?
It was a different time, you uncultured swine.

>> No.3328101

>>3328055
That's the whole point. Seeking cred is what makes you an insufferable edgemeister. The only way to avoid that is to live according to your principles.

>>3328064
Do you *really* get happiness from buying stuff? Or does buying stuff simply justify most of the time you spend at work?

>> No.3328103

>>3328018
> The vice comes when you're needlessly wasteful, not because you bought a high end watch.
>Vice comes when you're needlessly wasteful
>Not because you bought a high-end watch
Where do I begin?

>> No.3328104

>>3328095
I just hope people don't take to the streets, wanking on shop windows as some form of anti-consumerism protest.

>> No.3328113

>>3328104
Why in the hell not? Do you have some sort of problem with your own body and project it on to others?

>> No.3328114

>>3328088
Oh cool, now I'm half-Diogenes.

>> No.3328128

>>3328103
What? A guy works to provide for his family or himself and he wants a nice watch. What's the problem? High end watches are worth repairing. They last multiple lifetimes if taken care of properly.

>> No.3328133

>>3327699
Be a full-bearded man-adult and always ensure your face is visible while criticizing consumerism. Use a deep voice.

>> No.3328138

>>3328088
>When behaving indecently in the marketplace, he wished it were as easy to relieve hunger by rubbing an empty stomach.

>> No.3328141

>>3328128
You know your phone can tell time too, right?
Is your phone not good enough for you?

>> No.3328142

>>3328141
>taking your phone out in a meeting

>> No.3328145

>>3328128
Who says a man has to have a family? You're just creating for the world more hungry mouths. Not having kids is another way to counter consumerism.

>> No.3328146

>>3328141
>having a phone
Your counter-consumerist cred is gone.

>> No.3328150

>>3328142
Stop attending meetings, and quit your job if you can't. It's absurd that you should have to buy a watch because your office culture forbids using alternative timepieces.

>> No.3328151

>>3328146

>posting on 4chan

You better be in a public library or yours is too

>> No.3328152

>>3328145
>children
>any year

>> No.3328154

>>3328141
Mechanical devices are still preferable, they continue to work far after phones become payed and no longer work with new computers or networks, high end watches don't require power, and they're more socially acceptable on a work environment (Also more convenient).

>> No.3328156

>>3328142
>not yawning and asking for the time.

>> No.3328160

>>3328088
Ultimate gesture of self-sufficiency. No whores, no porn, just simply wanking.

>> No.3328162

>>3328152
You sound like you have been there.
What made you change your mind.
Just curious.

>> No.3328164

>>3328154
>don't require power

>> No.3328166

>>3328146
Not him, but that's not necessarily true.

I'm tentatively ideologically opposed to consumerism, but I still have things. I have a laptop. I buy stuff I don't need. That said, I still try to limit what I buy and find free alternatives to things I need or want. Maybe the guy already owned a phone; continuing to use it wouldn't make him any less opposed to consumerism. The problem here is all the self-identification, ie "oh shit, am I an authentic anti consumerist or not?!?"

>> No.3328170

>>3328162
Children are awful screaming abominations.
>be 4 years ago
>baby sitting for 2 weeks
>no sleep for 3 or 4 days at a time
>plan suicide
I'd adopt one when they are house broken but no way in hell would I ever have a child of my own.

>> No.3328182

>>3328164
Motion.

Rolex watches don't have batteries.

>> No.3328185

>>3328170
Oh, my mistake, i misread.
Thought you were a guy who had this point of view once, and now has children.

>> No.3328192

>>3328164
Sounds silly but is true. Google it.

>> No.3328200

>>3328192
B-But google is the enemy.

>> No.3328201
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3328201

You betrayed yourself. You don't need to 'sound' like anything by criticising it. Why talk about it? If you don't like consumerism, don't 'do' consumerism. What is the point of verbally attacking it? You will just piss off whoever hears you by caring enough to talk about it.

>> No.3328206

>>3328201
I think he means reasoning and not railing against it. But you're right, doing is always the better argument.

>> No.3328213

>>3328206
Still, it doesn't sound like the best conversation to have with yourself either. 'I don't like buying things for this reason it's totally wrong I can prove it to myself listen I'm proving it to myself'.

>> No.3328224

>>3328154
>I buy a Rolex for the apocalypse

>> No.3328225

>>3328192
All watches require energy. Now that isn't necessarily electricity, but it's still power.

>> No.3328664

>>3327699
You don't.

There's nothing inherently wrong with Consumerism, or at least nothing that can't be fixed.


You'll sound like an edgy teenager because that's essentially where hatred for consumerism stems from; underdeveloped ethic and logic systems.

>> No.3328675

yeah. thats not possible

>> No.3328678

>>3328675
*that's
damn it

>> No.3328693

>>3328142
>Not having a clock on the wall during meetings
>Checking the time during meetings
What exactly is your office paying you to do, chief?

>>3328146
What world do you live in that you aren't expected to own a cell phone by nearly everyone you meet?
Clearly not America.

>>3328154
The only time you would need to stop updating your technology (to keep up with the demands of professional society) is if society collapsed. If society collapsed, why do you need a watch? Do you have somewhere to be?

>> No.3328697

>>3328128
I don't think you can reasonably cost-justify an 8000 dollar watch like that.

>> No.3328710

>>3328192
you load a spring or charge a cell. The same thing could easily be achieved by using rechargeable batteries and a hand crank generator whenever it runs out.

They still use power and mechanical watches are so inaccurate even when they're high quality.

Very expensive watches are for showing off your wealth don't pretend it's otherwise.

>> No.3328712

>>3328697
>cost-justify


To whom?

>> No.3328717

Consumerism is not something a person does. It's a social problem, much like a lot of other things.

This idea that you should be the change that you want for the world can only get so far.

If a bum in the streets talk against consumerism and social property, he may be living it, but hey, no one will listen to him because he is a bum. So it would be to no effect. An anarchist going against the law? Arrested. Animal rights guy only eats lettuce? No wonder he is malnourished, I don't want to be like him. Woman is fighting for women rights against solidified ideas on how women should look like? It's only because she is ugly, look at her hair!

It is a myth. A guy that changes himself first of all things will always be the exception and as an exception, he is rejected and society stays as it is. He will never be an example, but the opposition will always assume that he is and will use that against him. Social change is social change. A community can be a microcosm of a broader change, but a person is just an outcast with crazy ideas.

If one wants to change something and make a difference, he must do it from within, he needs to connect himself, spread his ideas... One has to be sensible, you don't need to be an hypocrite. You are forced to play a game you don't want to play, but if you leave before anything else, people will just say you are a bad loser. Kick the ball, score a goal and say the game is shit.

>> No.3328722

>>3328712
The guy he replied to and to himself

>> No.3328731

>>3328717
>It's a social problem

How is it a social problem?

>> No.3328760

>>3328731
I was speaking in general at that point, not about consumerism.

Social problem would be whatever thing you think it is a social problem. That's why I gave other examples as well, not that I'm defending them one by one.

Also, you're gay.

>> No.3328798

>>3328760
>>3328717 here

>>3328731
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I focused on "problem" and not on "social". Whether it's a problem or not, it's up to debate.

The thing is that consumerism needs someone to consume, something to be consumed and someone to provide one with that, besides reasons for this system to work. Hence a social thing.

To take yourself out of this equation is meaningless, the rest of it continues to work and just gives you the finger.

If one wants a better system in its place, one must work within that. Whether by violent revolution, slow change, education or whatever is also up to debate.

>> No.3328930

>>3328068
I don't believe taking the same route Diogenes took would best fit OP's criteria.

Just talk about materialism, and muh spooks.